{"conversationCode":"786-011","tapeNumber":786,"conversationNumber":11,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-786-011","startDateTime":"1972-09-25T14:48:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-09-25T15:00:00.000Z","startDate":"25-Sep-1972","startTime":"10:48 AM","endDate":"25-Sep-1972","endTime":"11:00 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\"); Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On September 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:48 am to 11:00 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 786-011 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 786-11\n\nDate: September 25, 1972\nTime: 10:48 am - 11:00 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman at 10:48 am.\n\n            Haldeman’s schedule\n                -Staff meeting\n\n            The President's schedule\n                -Photograph opportunities\n                    -Robert J. Dole\n                    -Dwight D. Eisenhower\n                -John G. Tower\n                    -Texas\n                    -Possible ambassadorship\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 6m 50s     ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n            Personnel management\n\n                 -Arms Control and Disarmament Agency [ACDA]\n                     -Henry M. (“Scoop”) Jackson\n                     -Budget\n                     -Appointments\n                          -The President’s Secretary of State, director\n                           Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]\n                     -Budget cuts\n                 -Policy on cuts\n                     -Reductions in Force [RIFs]\n                     -Social Security check makers\n                     -Policy creating agencies\n                     -Operating agency\n                 -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger\n                     -Agency heads\n                          -Operating branches\n\nStephen B. bull entered at an unknown time after 10:48 am.\n\n             The President’s schedule\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 11:00 am.\n\n             Personnel management\n                 -Policy on White House cuts\n                     -Stenographers, waiters in mess hall\n                     -Upper level\n\nHaldeman left at 11:00 am.","filename":["786-011.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"786-010","nextCode":"786-012","transcript":[{"start":1.37,"end":14.34,"text":"How do you think of the, uh..."},{"start":14.36,"end":30.27,"text":"The election they had."},{"start":31.63,"end":39.41,"text":"I would certainly, it's a new one, it's what it holds, that's fine."},{"start":40.77,"end":47.72,"text":"I would certainly know, be sure to go to the rest of these people who've done this goddamn thing."},{"start":47.78,"end":57.45,"text":"I mean, that's something that, frankly, with Eisenhower, Bob, they did it one time, and I remember the sons of bitches didn't come in, they never got a picture."},{"start":57.85,"end":59.11,"text":"You know what I mean?"},{"start":59.13,"end":60.17,"text":"You can do them all here."},{"start":61.38,"end":76.65,"text":"You could have Tyler in every morning for breakfast and every other night for dinner and he'd say, why don't you ever have me for lunch?"},{"start":84.97,"end":86.95,"text":"That's just John's stock and trade."},{"start":87.05,"end":88.15,"text":"It's his way of working."},{"start":88.33,"end":91.49,"text":"It's to keep the kind of man that he is."},{"start":91.53,"end":94.23,"text":"Keep the medieval treasure."},{"start":106.15,"end":111.07,"text":"But you also do one other thing."},{"start":111.49,"end":114.14,"text":"In the study of agencies and so forth,"},{"start":114.86,"end":121.2,"text":"There are a lot of little things that are stuck in the cracks that we don't know about that I want the boys to get at."},{"start":121.38,"end":128.83,"text":"One is the emergency control agency, which is Jackson Creek."},{"start":128.91,"end":129.37,"text":"I told you."},{"start":130.11,"end":132.67,"text":"And that budget, that is $9 million."},{"start":132.77,"end":133.87,"text":"So there's a lot of people."},{"start":134.01,"end":143.1,"text":"First, I've got to know how many people there, and I really want to know, are appointed by me or the Secretary of State or the Acting Director."},{"start":143.12,"end":144.54,"text":"In other words, how many are subject to"},{"start":145.85,"end":149.94,"text":"Second, then it's like the CIA, that none are subject to change."},{"start":150.16,"end":161.95,"text":"Then what we do is we, of course, will cut the son of a bitch in question right down to the nut and not allow any jobs to be built and so forth and so on."},{"start":162.05,"end":167.59,"text":"What I have in mind is that a number of these agencies like that, we can have it double-stranded."},{"start":167.71,"end":169.69,"text":"We can have it delivered."},{"start":170.47,"end":171.96,"text":"We can have it, say, at 50%."},{"start":174.1,"end":179.18,"text":"say we want to cut a 50% by, not by ripping, but by simply not replacing."},{"start":180.24,"end":184.13,"text":"And then where it's like, maybe not Social Security checks, we don't have any checks."},{"start":184.79,"end":185.33,"text":"See my point?"},{"start":185.61,"end":186.75,"text":"We know there are differences."},{"start":187.47,"end":193.97,"text":"Where there's a curve, in other words, where it's a think tank, basically, a policy-creating thing, there should be a 50% cut."},{"start":194.15,"end":196.69,"text":"Cut the son of a bitch to the heart."},{"start":197.23,"end":199.17,"text":"Where it's basically an operating agency."},{"start":200.33,"end":202.51,"text":"then maybe it requires a few more."},{"start":202.75,"end":208.73,"text":"Although even there, I think if you cut down some of them, they do while they're outlawed there, you can make efficiency use."},{"start":213.99,"end":224.46,"text":"Our problem is, at the moment, you've ordered the cups, and I noticed this when we were at Weyberg's, and what happens is that the vacancy hits,"},{"start":225.2,"end":233.59,"text":"cut the operation, and those people that are on the creative side, we want to get the, and it's the creative side that we want to cut."},{"start":234.45,"end":239.23,"text":"So, if you could start with that, that would be helpful."},{"start":239.27,"end":241.85,"text":"What do you think?"},{"start":242.07,"end":244.39,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":244.51,"end":247.64,"text":"That is what I'm talking about."},{"start":247.72,"end":250.86,"text":"You think he understands your..."},{"start":252.95,"end":254.79,"text":"Yeah, but I think we've got to end this."},{"start":254.87,"end":263.79,"text":"You see, look, every now and then our department, we've got all the other people that grab your meeting."},{"start":264.39,"end":266.35,"text":"Well, here's what you would do in the White House."},{"start":266.37,"end":268.57,"text":"I can assure you, you would say what they would do."},{"start":268.59,"end":271.41,"text":"They'd say, well, we'll cut the numbers, the monitors, and the number of the waiters."},{"start":271.49,"end":273.71,"text":"And Matt says, that doesn't matter."},{"start":274.07,"end":279.07,"text":"You may need more monitors or more waiters, but they'll leave a lot of people at the higher levels."},{"start":279.95,"end":280.29,"text":"Right."},{"start":280.33,"end":280.99,"text":"Right, right, right."}],"audioDurationSec":293,"audioFiles":[{"file":"786-011.mp3","bytes":7032371,"durationSec":292.96,"bitrate":192036,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:57.945Z","aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon, H.R. Haldeman, and Stephen Bull discussed personnel management and potential budget cuts for various government agencies. The President expressed a desire to significantly reduce the budgets of policy-creating agencies, such as the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency, by 50% through attrition rather than layoffs. They also touched upon personnel management within the White House itself, specifically regarding lower-level staff like stenographers and waiters, contrasting it with cuts at higher levels.","topics":["Personnel management","Budget cuts","Arms Control and Disarmament Agency","Policy creation agencies","Operating agencies","White House staff","Attrition","Government agencies"],"generatedAt":"2026-09-18T02:21:40.044Z"},"findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:44:33.146Z","topicSlugs":["personnel-management","budget-cuts","arms-control-and-disarmament-agency","policy-creation-agencies","operating-agencies","white-house-staff","attrition","government-agencies"],"audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/786-011.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/786-011","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/786/conversation-786-011","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}