Nixon, Gleason & Bowers on International Longshoremen's Association

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Well, how are you?

Good to see you.

Thank you for your help.

Right, right.

All right.

Well, I saw it, and I thought it was really great.

I saw the written text.

The written text.

The color was there on the sheet.

When I said that, they were trying to pinpoint me or me, you know?

Oh yeah, how'd you say that then?

I just said, uh, this, uh, council, I'm going to discuss it with the meeting after.

I don't know if it's fair between you and I, you understand?

Yeah.

But I wasn't going to pinpoint George like that, so I figured that this gives you another opportunity to play another game of golf.

Oh, right.

And get another council member.

We will, the thing I also want you to know on whether it's a great deal or anything else, that we are not going to make any moves until, you know, we want your, we want to do something and then have, tell you about it later.

So we'll consult with you on everything.

Appreciate any suggestions you can give us.

We'll play a very hard game.

I think I played pretty good with Peterson.

Right.

And, you know, we did something when he went to pay him.

In 21 years, we've never worked a rushing shift.

And for you we weren't the first ones, we were the first ones.

They were looking for a date that day and they would take this shit.

We were over there and you know, we were out spotting those longshoremen, we were out spotting guys.

We saw what he did and what he was trying to do.

When he came in here and he bruised us and we were really nice to him.

We were the final thing to try to put the pressure on him.

They were rushing to do something about releasing those prisoners of war, especially Johnny Kidd, who was described by the law.

Right.

And we did it, but then we felt, after being raised here, we felt that you felt you were being sidetracked by the nurses.

What no use it was, we're going to hunt you.

The government is trying to kill you.

We felt that the first time, this is what you were doing, and we did it.

We erased it.

We went along with it.

And then the only thing is that these Russians, and you can't trust these people.

You can't trust them.

I don't trust them.

Never.

Well, listen, let me tell you, you know, nobody's talked to him more than I have, but nobody knows him.

Well, I don't mean to brag, but I know him pretty well.

I know you do.

George, George, George and I talk a lot, a lot, a lot about this.

I know these folks.

Oh, I think he's been fighting for years.

The first thing they did was the president was make four ships that grew and dropped a little over the mountain.

He killed him.

And then he sent him up to St. Lawrence and I got all of the... And he gets on the phone and tells him what he's doing.

How did Howard do about Gibson?

Oh, I don't know.

He worked with you, right?

Oh, yeah.

He's from New Jersey, isn't he?

Yeah, he lives in New Jersey.

Yeah.

He used to be the head of the...

I think it was the Graceland, you know what I'm saying?

He was interested in the project with me, so... Oh, yeah.

So he's a decent guy.

Yeah.

And now I understand that this week is supposed to straighten out a lot of bookings.

The only thing is, what are bookings?

What is it?

Friday.

It was supposed to be finished by Friday.

America.

Well, Kissinger worked on it.

He's been in touch with him.

No, I didn't know.

One time he got me one that had a Chinese ship.

I told him I wasn't going to work.

He said, where's that Chinese ship that works?

I said, it's over there.

Another concern I'm catching for, we all know this,

to a certain extent with these extra visas for the Jewish people there.

Just thought to give you this assurance.

We've talked to them about it.

The problem you have, the moment you make it, the moment you start paying for it, it's publicly in the conditions.

They're going to be kept in forever.

They'll never get out.

But there are other ways to send this cap.

I don't mean that you know you can't talk.

The problem is that we've got these fellows now where they have to do things for us and we do things for them.

And it's just, frankly, cold turkey.

You see, it's an interesting thing, too.

We have come a long way with them.

But it's going to mean for your fellows in the end a lot more jobs.

Because if we get this trade agreement, which we expect to get in the middle of the month, sometime around there, it's going to be significant.

And the more we can get, I mean, the more it's going to mean in terms of jobs, I don't think.

But also, let's face it, now the main thing, too, is that we've got to go to, I've got to count on New Falls to tell Gibson and the rest of them,

We've got to keep our own bridge marine from going down the tube.

And I didn't know how we could do it, but we worked on it.

We built it.

That's where I had met Gibson, and we went out and gave that contract to San Diego to have another one up in Maine.

So we're building these new ships, these tankers.

Of course, ours are so small compared to the darn Japanese.

They are something.

Have you been to Japan?

Well, yes, I was.

Yeah.

Aren't they something else, Jack?

Well, you are.

You're safe.

My unit has made 790,000 tests when I'm four hours away from Miami.

814,000 out of zero.

And not a single one went out of my range.

Well, these are those ships that go to Nassau.

Well, I've seen the cruisers there.

Sure, sure, sure.

We don't even know.

The United States has been retired.

They said it was a good ship.

Chuck, what's that business up in Quincy, I suppose?

I think it does say that they're going to build something.

That's light.

That's the energy.

What is that?

Gas.

I don't know if it's natural gas.

It's presentable.

It'll run the...

They're buried.

They're borrowed.

They're buried.

Yes, yes.

We've got to have it out here, right?

Right.

Down here.

Okay.

And if you look at it, right here.

Yeah.

This man was just presenting one of the threats concerning the trade agreement on the 1-30th.

Yeah.

That's the threat that I talked against you this weekend, because Kowloon had COVID.

What are we talking about?

The 1-3rd, 1-3rd, 1-3rd.

We're talking about the same points on that, not that part, but we stated around that they were looking upon this, who made it, when he... Yeah.

We just stated that it went one fight, one fight, one fight, but they wouldn't embarrass somebody, understand?

No.

George and Minnie told me after we'd played golf that time, on the much-holicized ball, golfing, which is supposed to be private, both of us, both sides of course, but anyway...

He was telling me about the 64 situation.

He was so mad.

He showed us stuff.

He said, you really got screwed on that.

You had to deal.

You were supposed to have done it.

And then you can't.

They were doing it.

And finally, you had to go and see President Kennedy on the thing.

And Kennedy didn't even know they had done it.

They had done it without his knowledge, apparently, right?

John, that's why they challenged all the shifts on a switchboard before they made a deal.

This is not going to happen without him.

But the main thing is you're going to let us know.

If you let us know what I meant, you naturally will.

But you don't have to just keep us posted.

I'm hoping to keep rockets here after the election in some capacity.

But in any event, we want to know because let me be quite correct with this.

I'm aware of the fact that in times past, I mean, Joe and I have talked about this, that I have had the support of many leaders of organized labor.

We know that.

And I'm aware of the fact that this time I'll have some support, some neutrality.

I realize a lot of that is due to the fact that you're concerned about the other problem.

But the main point is that...

And I think George and Amy will agree with this, that we've had a policy in these first four years that whether they support it or not doesn't make any difference.

The door to this place is open.

And the reason it's open is that I have a very, very strong feeling for you fellows on an issue that is more important than any labor management issue.

They're important, too.

I'm going to agree with that.

But that's the issue of national defense.

And I've told George Kennedy this, and I'll tell you the same thing.

When I had to make the decision to go into Cambodia, when I had to make the decision to mine the harbors of a typhoon and bomb an ark again in May, we had to try to get support.

I'm telling you, businessmen had run a lot of scared rabbits.

We had very few of them that would speak up, some that I've met.

the so-called intellectuals who do the editors and so forth, about 90% of them are against us and so forth.

But when it came to the leaders who organize labor, except for two or three clubs, you were with us to a man.

And I know that.

And that's what counts as far as I'm concerned in this office.

And as long as we can do that, then we'll do what we can on the labor management issues.

And that's the big issue after all.

I think that Mr. Manning, you know, my counsel there, I think what he did for you was, for you, he was fighting us.

Right.

You're going to support the candidates, the Democratic candidates for the House, and I understand that.

Say that to your friends.

You support them.

We took on guys, and we don't think that, we don't know anybody, but I don't mind talking to anybody, a couple of guys, we took on a question.

I'll tell you one thing about him, too.

He did one of those programs.

He was murdered.

He was so quick.

You know, this guy has got a, there's, his language is quite precise.

If these guys thought they'd have him over a barrel, they'd turn right over.

The only time he voted for Lindsey, and I was with Lindsey, did they vote for Lindsey?

He voted to vote for Lindsey.

No, the only thing he said, he voted for Lindsey when he was a candidate.

Oh!

He made that statement.

I was with Lindsey this morning.

He was surprised when I asked him, I won't show him what he shipped him, I know what he shipped him.

The position we just took is a health emotional ring, cattle home.

Sure, because they are, you fellas, that's right, you get the jobs, whoever bring them in, because they can't, you've got to unload them.

But on the other hand, you have a very close relationship with the others, right?

We have the Mates, Captain of the Mates, a member of the ILA.

Are they?

Sure, they just...

So you, so it would have, so it'd be...

But also, also...

We do like to see our American stuff do pretty well.

Especially the original one when we took a stand against Kennedy.

When we won, when we made the deal, we didn't know what was going on.

And we put the stand because these Russians don't want to see an American ship go in there with the American flag with this fleet.

Because they think they're getting it from their own country.

Very good point.

I understand that.

We insisted on it.

The first ship we met, insisted upon it, was an American-exposed ship, not an American first.

And we're not doing that.

So they wouldn't let the crew off the ship.

It's all their people.

Well, the world has not changed a great deal.

That's true in Russia, and it's true in China.

It'll be that way for a long time to come.

They are totalitarian societies.

All we're trying to do is to find those areas where we can make deals to our benefit, as well as to theirs.

I'll tell you where, but we have no illusions.

I mean, if the comments change, the answer's not a good one.

They're not going to.

But it happens that, let's face it, if the Russians and the Chinese didn't have this difference between themselves, none of this would be going on.

That's good.

If they have these differences, why shouldn't they either?

Right?

Right.

This is part of the game.

Now, we don't say that publicly.

The point is that, after all, our point is we're turning along the boat.

It's much better to have that sort of situation than done where we're just sitting on the outside of an animal.

And we're doing business with them and it'll help.

But only then.

But I couldn't agree more.

They wouldn't let the guys off the ship.

You'll get along with him.

He's a good man.

He's a very good man.

But actually, you know, he of course isn't his.

I'd actually think that he was in the shadow of Hoffa.

But that's fine.

But Fitzsimmons is a strong guy.

He's a strong guy.

As a matter of fact, and I won't get into this, it's something that you all have to work out.

At some point, there ought to be a... Oh, they will.

Because basically, you believe in the same things.

You know what I mean?

Isn't this true?

That's right.

I mean, you talk to this, and your follow-up, they follow Joe T. Yeah, they're good guys.

Yeah, yeah.

You work with them, do you?

Oh, 100%, because they deliver their products mainly all over the country.

We organize with them where they have non-union drivers come in and some fellas, a gypsy come over or something like that.

We take them to the back of the union book and work together with them.

Oh boy.

Yeah, I got to go out there on Wednesday.

They're going to have a riot in San Francisco because they're the worst, most violent group of all.

San Francisco police are pretty tough.

They're trying to keep from knocking us over, but that's all right.

Well, you didn't have it so bad in Miami, you shouldn't have.

I was in Miami for one day.

I was there after that group.

This is when I knew he was a real coward.

When they came and did the round that day, he said he was trying to bottom the league a little bit about the presence of war.

And he made a statement that he was going to keep the total force of the game.

Oh, yeah.

But, Tyler, I forget what you said.

Make sure the prison warden and they come down and you want to get a language out of that woman down there and everything else in the round.

Well, they're pretty bad.

Oh, gosh.

That language of a woman walking through here.

Long show of the music.

That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah.

That's vicious.

That night, when I came out of the war, and you know how they had the security, you had to get, you had to have the ticket to get on the bus before you got there, they checked you.

Yeah.

But I don't know, the Democrats, when you got in there, saw the firms, black and white, walking around naked, and the street violence, I thought, man, you're cool.

I didn't kill that hotel person.

No, you didn't.

I mean, he's telling you, he kind of did a little trim, but it was a victory.

It was a victory.

Well, I know you're busy, but I want you to know... Well, I appreciate it very much, and I will not... Mr. President, I want to tell you that.

I represent the passenger ships in New York.

And 18 years ago, a fellow named Michael, I knew him from Russian supply escape.

Gary.

Never worked in another passenger ship in New York.

18 years.

And I told him that I wouldn't work the ship if they used their influence to send back fire fighters.

When the U.S. State Department asked me to work a Russian passenger ship, I told them to send them.

That wouldn't work.

But when I got that briefing from the other top people, I was convinced that you were going to do everything they had to do.

And I changed my opinion, so did Teddy, and I told Victor myself that I'm convinced now that there's no use in me holding out for five years or more.

I think the war is going to be ended through the end of the war.

And I changed my mind.

So I still feel the same about them.

And if there's something wrong, we'll go back to our old slogan, but

Right now, I'm going to back you up.

Well, the main thing is this.

If we get that done, then we're going to get it back.

And also, we've got a little business to do with the Chinese.

Of course, we've got some business to do with the Nordic.

And if they don't settle, we're going to have to be very tough on them.

Now, the interesting thing, a little bit of history on Gerhard Eisler.

I was the President of Congress in 1947.

Jack Kennedy was on the Labor Committee.

And I was also on the American Activity Committee.

And Eisler came before the committee and refused an answer on the ground of self-incrimination.

I was selected by the chairman of the committee, Arnold Thomas of the British Congress, to present the citation of contempt to the Congress.

And it was a great, of course, honor for me as a young congressman.

That was in February of that year.

My first speech in the Congress was made asking for an intensification for Gerhard Eisler.

And we got it.

There were only about 20 that voted against it, including Mark Antony.

But we got this out of hand.

And then he escaped.

Right?

On a Polish ship.

And went to work for East Germany, the East German Communist Party.

That factory has been in three times, and they're still carrying the wrong packages.

Well, we'll make it in their best interest.

We will.

I'll pledge you that.

Good.

It's good to be with you.

I want to give you a couple of trinkets here to take along.

Everybody come here.

Here we are, Steve.

These are, uh, these are the, uh, these are quite nice, actually.

They're new.

This seal is off the flag, you see.

sure sure sure somewhere that i got an extra one here so you give it and i want the attendance

If you want to watch Colson, he's a little bit on the liberal side.

Mr. President, I can speak personally.

We're in a very close relationship with Mr. Colson and Mr. Bell.

I consider them the highest type of individual I'd like to deal with.

Teddy has me on several occasions.

I met Chuck and George way back when First Prison Law was kind of Christian and came out.

That's what I had a few years ago, yes.

No, I had that program.

I had that program.

You know, it's a very good thing for the country that you call it.

You know, you're everybody's strong guy, strong guy, etc.

If you call it, it shows such concern for those people.

I'm glad you did.

We'll be with you.

It's for your wives.

This is the same thing.

See, there's a seal there on the floor.

And it's up there, too.

He's got one.

You give this to one in your office.

He's got the feeling.

That's right.

Thank you, sir.

Nixon, Gleason & Bowers on International Longshoremen's Association

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on September 25, 1972

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