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Conversation 786-025

TapeTape 786StartMonday, September 25, 1972 at 3:35 PMEndMonday, September 25, 1972 at 4:41 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  Bull, Stephen B.Recording deviceOval Office
AI Summary

President Nixon met with Charles Colson and Stephen Bull to discuss political messaging for his 1972 reelection campaign and the staffing philosophy of his administration. Nixon critiqued the language used in upcoming public statements regarding immigration and terrorism, insisting on avoiding divisive racial and religious categorizations. Furthermore, the President emphasized the need to surround himself with tougher, more street-smart advisors—particularly from the labor movement—who are not easily influenced by the liberal media or elite intellectual circles.

1972 ElectionWhite House StaffingPolitical MessagingLabor UnionsPublic Opinion
AudioNARA Description

On September 25, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:35 pm to 4:41 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 786-025 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 786-25

Date: September 25, 1972
Time: 3:35 pm - 4:41 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 44m 51s    ]

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Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 3:35 pm.

             Statements for the President

Bull left at an unknown time before 4:41 pm.

             Issues
                 -Immigration
                 -Terrorism
                     -Establishment of Cabinet committee

             Immigration statement for September 26, 1972
                -Terminology
                     -Ethnicities and races
                         -Irish, blacks, Italians
                         -Blacks and whites
                         -Italians, Germans, Poles
                         -Jews

                                     (rev. Nov-03)

                       -Religions, races, nationalities
                       -Blacks

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 34s ]

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          1972 election
              -Supporters' reaction to the President's accomplishments
                  -Trip to the People's Republic of China [PRC]
                  -George S. McGovern
                  -Historian’s view
                  -Vietnam War decision of May 8, 1972
                  -Trips to PRC, Soviet Union
                  -Louis P. Harris
                  -Thomas F. Eagleton resignation's effect on polls

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 23s ]

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          White House staff
             -Administration contact with ordinary people

                                    (rev. Nov-03)

                  -Ambassadorships
              -Donald F. Rodgers
              -The President’s contacts
              -George Meany
                  -Domestic Council staff, research staff
                  -Capabilities
                  -Judgement
                  -Television talk shows
                  -John B. Connally
                  -Intelligence
              -Background
                  -Education, associations, cultural interests
              -Labor people
                  -[John Bowers]
                       -Change of mind
                       -Support for the President
                       -Communists
                            -Gerhard Eisler
                                -The President’s role in conviction
                  -Meany
                  -Henry A. Kissinger, the President, Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                  -Soviet Union, PRC
                       -US interests
                  -Frank E. Fitzsimmons
                  -Thomas W. (“Teddy”) Gleason
              -Business people
                  -Frederic V. Malek
              -Desired characteristics
                  -Labor people
                  -Parties
                  -Washington Post
                       -The Daily Worker
                  -New York Times
                       -The President’s experience
                            -1960 election

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 36s     ]

                                         (rev. Nov-03)

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

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Haldeman and Colson left at 4:41 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

So if you get terrorism today...
He set up a committee today, I think.
He's going to follow up a statement by you tomorrow.
That is terrorism.
That's the...
You cannot use the terms.
Let me explain.
You can't say Irishman, Blacks, Canadians.
You understand they're different things.
There are Blacks and Whites.
There are Texans, Germans, Poles.
And you can't use Jews.
You're confusing.
You're not going to get religions, races, and nationalities all mixed together.
They're all screwed up.
So just say, you don't care about nationalities?
No.
All hearts.
All hearts.
You know, one thing we have to, we must do is, as I said earlier, we've got to do some things to show that we won the election.
And to just back into it, because regardless of what you ask, that's the reason I want to do some things.
Of course, I think the historians are concerned.
They're going to say you won this, but
Over a long period of time, not over a—you wanted— I mean, the toughest political decision was made.
Tougher than anything you say during a campaign.
That's why they're starting to write this thing.
The year 1972, instead of just the campaign, it's been quite a year.
They go into the whole thing.
You know what it's—
Your support in the trial dates since March each month with Harris, you know, 59, 54, and then there was that dip of 48 in May.
That was before the May 8th positive reaction setting.
And then June 54, 55, 57, 63, 59.
It's been well up in the 50s all year long.
You know, you've been building strength for over a six- or eight-month period.
This isn't just a...
a reaction to this guy in Eagleton and a few other things.
There's been a developing pattern.
Anyway, we do not agree, Bob, that we've got to keep in touch with sort of the gut reactions of ordinary people.
That's why I'm going to have some around this White House.
And I'm going to have some as ambassadors.
And I'm going to have some in positions.
Now, this Rogers, I'm going to keep him.
I'm going to keep him.
I'm not going to sit around and just have people that are like this.
He's a great trouble with almost every administration.
And I know how we all are.
I like to be around people that are my own intellectual equals.
But you must not.
You must not.
They may be your main occasions.
And this is the hard thing.
He could take our whole domestic council staff, and he could take the whole research staff, and he could eat them up in about three bites.
No question.
The man is brilliant.
He's brilliant, sir.
He's got a damn.
I mean, he is tough, quick.
He isn't always right.
Sometimes he has bad character.
But the man, if you read him on one of these talks, the only guy that I all know, our whole group, I put up against him in a straight-up debate with the company.
He and Connie will have a good go, because they both go for the juggler, and they're both quick and smart and all the rest of it.
But you see, Bob, you've got here, there are different factors and brains.
I mean, not brains, citizen brains.
He's got a hell of a brain.
The point is, it isn't the degree.
It isn't the question of where you went to college.
It isn't the question of what school you went to.
It isn't the question of whether you were raised in the right way.
It isn't the question of what you associate with the best people.
This is the question, whether or not you can stop about the opera, or the history of that, and all that fancy stuff.
The question is, whether or not you're playing the people.
I don't know what you get down to.
It's like that little fellow, the first voice lesson of the... Oh, what?
The little white sweetie with the Irish voice.
Yeah, but he's saying, you know, I've never voted for Republicans.
I never vote for them either.
But I'm with you all the way, and we're going to organize, and we're going out with our people and our local...
He says, I don't trust the communists, he says, and so forth.
I never had.
There was an issue through Garrett.
We met every time.
Garrett and I sort of went out on a night on Torrey, which I remember very well.
I said, and I point out, it was a fellow that got the son of a bitch convicted.
And he was cheated rich.
Most people forgot that.
But anyway, the main point was, that little Irish guy was staying in a family.
He said, we believe that you know what the hell is wrong.
We trust him.
Right, we trust him.
He didn't say, I didn't think it was the right thing, but now I think it's the right thing.
You know?
What do you think he's talking about?
It is not.
The point is that he understands what Kissinger and I, we're the only two who have a chance to do what we're really up to.
You know?
But again, it has nothing to do with whether you like communists or not or Russians or Chinese or anything else.
It has to do with the United States, which nobody's ever thought about much recently.
But boy, I tell you, Bob, it is really an eye-opener.
You ever try to talk to these guys, labor guys?
Not this group, no.
I have to some, yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know what you mean.
Aren't they a different bunch?
Oh, yes.
Fitzsimmons?
They're great.
They're canny.
They're very canny.
They know what they're doing.
What they're doing and why they're doing it.
I don't mean to downplay our business.
We've got guys like Malik.
Malik is as smart as anybody.
He's as tough as anybody.
We've got a few that are like that.
Bob, the kind of guys we have got to get around here are more in that category.
I mean, of the icy, tough, shrewd, no-nonsense.
I don't mind if they go to the parties and the rest, but I don't want to be taken in by them.
You know what I mean?
I don't mind if they read the Washington Post, but I don't want them to read it fully.
I want them to read it only to know what the other side is saying.
That's all.
That's all.
Get mad at everybody.
You eat.
I'd really like to read the Daily Worker, just to stop and see what's going on.
Too often, too often, our people come in terribly depressed because they read and they think, gee whiz, I didn't get a good notice in the Washington Post or the New York Times.
I never had any good notice of them, and I don't give a shit.
I haven't, frankly, since 1960, because I know they're against me.
And so our press people have to hurt them.
Exactly.
That's the way it is.
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