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Conversation: 787-005

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Start Date: 26-Sep-1972 10:11 AM

End Date: 26-Sep-1972 10:53 AM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Ehrlichman, John D.Bull, Stephen B.Merriam, Robert E.Engman, Lewis A.White House photographer

Recording Device: Oval Office

787-005.mp3

NARA Description:

On September 26, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, Stephen B. Bull, Robert E. Merriam, Lewis A. Engman, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:11 am to 10:53 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 787-005 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 787-5

Date: September 26, 1972
Time: 10:11 am - 10:53 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John D. Ehrlichman and Stephen B Bull.

       The President's forthcoming meeting with Robert E. Merriam
                                              7
                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Nov-03)

             -Tax credits to elderly

Bull left at unknown time before 10:15 am.

                   -Report
                       -Timing
                       -Property taxes
                       -Relationship between Federal, state, local taxation
                           -Realignment
                       -Timing
                           -1972 election
                       -Property taxes
                           -Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations [ACIR]
                           -1972 election

       Defense cuts
            -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
            -George P. Shultz
                -Public relations
            -Weinberger
            -Melvin R. Laird
            -George S. McGovern
            -Shultz’s appearance before the House of Representatives Ways and Means
             Committee
                -Weinberger’s subsequent appearance

Merriam and Lewis A. Engman entered at 10:15 am; the White House photographer was present
at the beginning of the meeting.

       Greetings

       ACIR Study
           -School financing
           -Property tax
           -Staff numbers
           - ACIR
                -Financing
                     -Congressional appropriations
                     -States
                -Staff
                     -Role
                     -Communications
                -Financing
                               8
        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                       Tape Subject Log
                         (rev. Nov-03)

         -Domestic Council
         -Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD]
         -Department of Health, Education, and Welfare [HEW]
         -Department of Transportation special studies
         -Cities
         -Foundations
-Organization
     -Three phases
         -School financing
              -Court decisions
         -Property taxes
         -Value added tax [VAT]
              -Discussion
                   -Timing
                        -December 1972
-National fiscal policy
     -Federal taxes
         -Chart
              -State and local taxes
                   -Impact
     -1972 tax burden on family of four
         -Compared to 1953 tax burden
              -Chart
                   -Taxes
                        -As percentage of income
                        -Federal tax
                   -Social Security
                   -Property taxes
                   -State and local tax
     -Income tax reform
         -Need for balance
         -Congressional focus
     -Implementation
     -Commission responsibility
     -Quantity of work
         -Election period activities of members
              -Richard B. Ogilvie
-Specific areas
-School financing
     -Courts
         -State responsibility
         -Property taxes
     -Recommendations
                                 9
         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                        Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. Nov-03)

        -Modest federal aid
           -Neil H. McElroy Commission
           -Self destruct mechanism
           -Revenue sharing
           -Welfare
-Welfare
    -Federal funding
         -ACIR perspective
              -Staff
              -Governors, mayors
                   -Benefit payments
-Property taxes
    -Preliminary study
    -Popularity
         -Public opinion poll
              -Gerald R. Ford
              -John J. Rhodes Platform Committee
                   -Canvas of selected Republicans
                        -Roger Freeman’s view
                        -Milton Friedman’s view
         -Fairness
         -Visibility
         -Number that pay
              -Two installments
                   -Compared to mortgage payments
         -Sales tax
              -Compared to income tax
    -Reform
         -Variation of use
              -Chart
              -Northeast, Midwest, West
              -South, Southwest
         -State constitutions
              -Classification of property
              -Residential exemption
                   -Constitutional Amendment
                       -16 to 24 states
         -Rate requirements
              -Local governments
              -Congressional workload
         -Deductions
              -Tax payment
              -Loophole
                       10
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

               Tape Subject Log
                 (rev. Nov-03)

         -[George S. McGovern]
         -Itemization
             -Use by upper income people
                -Compared to lower and middle income people
                      -Standard deduction
-Tax credits
    -Private schools
         -Dwight D. Eisenhower administration
             -Arthur S. Fleming
    -Treasury department concern
    -State and local taxes
         -Cost in federal money
-Elderly
    -Chart
    -Numbers of home owners with low income
         -Payments
             -As percentage of income
             -Welfare
                       -McGovern’s plan
    -Income tax
    -Northeast
         -Vermont, Maine, Massachusetts
         -Social Security
    -Number
         -Compared to Florida and California
    -Recommendations
    -Chart
         -Circuit breaker legislation
             -Minnesota, Illinois
             -State payments
             -Minnesota example
                       -Rate of payment
    -Federal circuit breaker legislation
       -State payments
               -Federal matching fund
                       -Proportion
                       -Cost
                       -Tax credits
               -Individual payment
                       -Affidavit filing
                               -Welfare
                       -Receipt
                       -Options
                                 11
        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                        Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. Nov-03)

                                      -Welfare
            -Tax credits
               -Income taxes
                       -Standard decuctions
                       -Cash rebates
                               -Short form
                                       -Withholding refund
                                               -Social Security receipts
            -Tax credits
                 -Compared to circuit breaker plan
            -Circuit breaker plan
                  -Checks to individual from states
                  -Compared to tax credits
                       -Merriam’s view
                               -Adoption by states
                       -ACIR view
            -Bills in Congress
                       -Paul Findley
                               -Direct federal payment to individuals
                  -Joint federal and state participation
                       -ACIR support
                  -National scandal
                  -Medicare
                  -South
                  -Northeast
                       -Vermont, Maine
                  -Welfare
                  -Food stamps
                       -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon’s involvement
                       -Effect of program
                       -Charity
                       -"Project fund"
-VAT
   -Speculation
   -Administration strategy
   -ACIR recommendations
       -Post-1972 election
   -Sales tax
   -Options kept for use
   -Regressivity
   -Administration
       -Form
            -Brown [First name unknown] of New Jersey
                                                12
                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                        Tape Subject Log
                                          (rev. Nov-03)

                 -Special interests
                     -Railroads
                     -Banks
                     -Utilities
                     -Small farmers
                     -Rates
                           -Europeans
                                -Diversity
                 -Recommendations
                     -Tone
                     -Political issue
                           -Budget
                     -ACIR staff poll
             -Treasury Department
                 -Parallel study
                 -Response
                     -Elderly
                           -Circuit breaker legislation
                 -Confidentiality of study
             -ACIR schedule
                 -December 1972
                     -Study
                 -Shultz
                 -Cooperation
                     -Engman

       Presentation of Presidential gifts
            -Cuff links
            -Pin

Ehrlichman, Merriam and Engman left at 10:53 am.