Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 788 › Conversation 788-005
Nixon, Burns & Bull on Economic policy and Federal Reserve
Friday, September 29, 1972 · 10:56 AM–11:07 AM ET · Oval Office · 9 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Federal Reserve Chairman Arthur F. Burns met to discuss the international reception of U.S. economic policies, the challenges of managing money supply and interest rates, and the broader contrast between American and British labor discipline. The discussion also covered potential future travel itineraries for Burns to countries including Indonesia and Japan, as well as coordination regarding an upcoming meeting with British Foreign Secretary Sir Alec Douglas-Home. Stephen B. Bull joined briefly to assist with scheduling logistics for the President and Burns.
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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How are you?
Sit down.
Sit down.
These meetings are going well.
The foreigners are tremendously impressed with our achievement in this field.
Are they?
They praise us.
We are the hope of the world now.
Well, no, it depends on you.
I've got to go to Japan now.
Now, in, oh, about a year or so ago, you were eager to have me go to
india indonesia but circumstances have certainly changed as far as india is concerned i wanted to know your thinking i don't have to go anywhere let me say this uh i'm not keen
I think Indonesia is important because basically it's so rich and they are coming along.
Let me just think.
Which one of those places have you not been to?
Indonesia.
Yeah, have you been to Singapore, Malaysia?
Not to Malaysia.
in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong.
You've been to Korea, you've done.
I would do what you can.
That's where always...
He's running a very good show.
I have a very good personal relationship with him.
He wanted to go on around the world.
All right, I want to be thinking on that.
All right.
Now, let me just move quickly.
I have, I'm in trouble with my system.
from the board of directors from five other callbacks.
And the other is very uneasy.
Here is my problem.
I can still hold on for a while.
I'm just a little afraid.
as you know uh
Fair enough.
Believe me.
Believe me.
Mr. President, this is almost a miracle this year on the money supply and interest rates.
I didn't think it was possible.
Well, I think it's a miracle, too, on the control prices.
On the control prices?
I don't know.
Who ever thought that the damn thing would work when we talked about the 2% to 3% rate?
You know and I know that I thought it was going to be 4% in June.
But I thought 4% had definitely
hang on another thing that's very interesting is the point that you made the American people are still a law-abiding disciplined people that's why we're doing better than the British and the British the British is too bad what's happening in Britain what's going on well they'll come back over
They're in great trouble because there's been a discipline that has declined.
Britain is in a state of sunny hands politically.
No, we're listening to the labor unions.
Government doesn't have control.
You see, our trade unions, they groan, and they kick my head when they obey the law.
And George Meany, you know me, God bless him.
He taught us, right?
They behaved abominably towards your children.
Say, his talk went beautifully.
He behaved badly.
He behaved badly.
They are crawling on their knees, and I'll tell it to you.
I'm giving them hell all around, and I just want you to know that.
I don't see human.
Is he still here?
Is he coming home?
Are you coming?
You're coming today.
It's alright.
He's coming.
NARA Description
On September 29, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Arthur F. Burns, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:56 am and 11:07 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 788-005 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 788-5
Date: September 29, 1972
Time: Unknown between 10:56 am and 11:07 am
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Arthur F. Burns.
The President's schedule
-Previous meeting with Maurice Schumann
International Monetary Fund [IMF] meeting
-Burns’s view
-Prices in US
-Foreign reaction to trends in US
-Control
-Production
-Last year’s statistics
Burns’s schedule
-Stephen B. Bull
-Timing
-1972 Presidential elections
-Burns’s role
-Japan
-India
-Indonesia
-India
-The President’s view
-Pakistan
-Bangladesh
-Indonesia
-The President’s view
-Burns’s previous trips
-Singapore
-Malaysia
-South Korea
-Taiwan
-Hong Kong
-South Korea
-Possible itinerary
-Japan
-Indonesia
-Iran
-Mohammad Reza Pahlavi [Shah of Iran]
-The President’s view
-Israel
-Hussein ibn Talel [Hussein, King of Jordan]
The US economy
-Federal Reserve system
-Discount rates
-Bank directors
-Control of rates
-Timing
-Stock market
-Effect
-New York
-New Jersey
-Connecticut
-Joseph P. Kennedy's purchase of stocks in 1960
-Timing
-New York Stock Exchange
-[James J. Needham], Bernard J. (“Bunny”) Lasker
-Money supply and interest rates
-Control of prices
-The President’s view
-Increases
-The president’s view
-Italians
-British
-Current situation
-The President’s forthcoming meeting with Sir
Alexander F. Douglas-Home
-Burns’s view
-Fiscal discipline
-Government control
-American labor unions
-British labor unions
-George Meany
-British
-Attitude
-George P. Shultz
Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:54 am.
The President’s schedule
-Forthcoming meeting with Home
-Forthcoming dinner for Home
-Unknown person’s schedule
-Burns’s schedule
Bull left at an unknown time before 11:07 am.
The President and Burns left at 11:07 am.Also recorded on September 29, 1972
- 105-009 9:19 AM · 57 min — President Richard M. Nixon and members of the Cost of Living Council, including George P. Shultz, Donald H. Rumsfeld, Earl L. Butz, Peter G. Peterson, James D. Hodgson, George W. Romney, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, Gen. George A. Lincoln, Herbert Stein, Virginia Knauer, Arthur F. Burns, John G. Veneman, Robert M. Ball, Johnnie M. Walters, Arthur S. Flemming, Thomas B. Curtis, Edward Preston, Marina von Neumann Whitman, James W. McLane, William Geimer, Richard B. Cheney, Bert M. Concklin, William Walker, Marvin H. Kosters, Donald R. Murdoch, William I. ("Bill") Greener, Jr., C. Robert Lane, the White House photographer, and members of the press, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 9:19 am and 10:06 pm.
- 788-001 9:45 AM · 47 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Henry A. Kissinger, Stephen B. Bull, Maurice Schumann, Jacques Kosciusko-Morizet, and White House photographer met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:45 am to 10:45 am.
- 788-002 10:45 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:45 am to 10:50 am.
- 788-003 10:51 AM · 47 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:51 am to 10:53 am.
- 788-004 10:54 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:54 am and 11:07 am.
- 788-006 11:07 AM · 23 sec — unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:07 am and 12:03 pm.
- 788-007 12:03 PM · 54 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 12:03 pm and 12:11 pm.
- 788-008 12:11 PM · 26 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Alexander P. Butterfield, and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:11 pm to 2:03 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 788-005, September 29, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/788-005 (accessed October 12, 2026).