Nixon White House Tapes ›Tape 791 › Conversation 791-013

Nixon, Griffin & Timmons on Welfare reform and Public policy

Tuesday, October 3, 1972 · 4:24 PM–4:25 PM ET · Oval Office ·56 sec

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Griffin, Robert P.; Timmons, William E.Conversation791-013 onTape 791StartTuesday, October 3, 1972 at 4:24 PMEndTuesday, October 3, 1972 at 4:25 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 791-013 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Senator Robert Griffin and William Timmons to discuss public perception of the welfare system and the fiscal implications of various welfare program titles. The participants critiqued the administrative handling of welfare funds, specifically citing frustrations with social workers and the perceived prevalence of benefit misuse. The brief exchange underscored the political pressure to address the high costs associated with these legislative titles.

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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What do you find, Bob?

Absolutely.

Up the wall, Bob.

You know what they think?

They think all of these lazy, fast, free-loading, free-loaders, illegitimate children.

Basically, that's what it is.

A lot of it's not fair.

You know, some welfare is necessary.

But a lot of it is fair to think there are free-loaders.

I get it.

Well, I mean, oh, you know, social workers give the money away.

That wasn't fair.

First three titles.

Oh, I haven't got so many titles.

Well, across the board.

Yeah.

$22 billion or something.

That's a lot.

When?

Come to Michigan.

I get to, uh...

NARA Description

On October 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Robert P. Griffin, and William E. Timmons met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:24 pm to 4:25 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 791-013 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 791-13

Date: October 3, 1972
Time: 4:24 pm - 4:25 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Robert P. Griffin and William E. Timmons.

        Welfare
           -Children
           -Social workers
           -Busing
           -Titles I, II, III
                -Costs

Griffin and Timmons left at 4:25 pm.

                                          (rev. Nov-03)

Also recorded on October 3, 1972

791-009 3:25 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 3:25 pm.
791-010 3:25 PM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Rose Mary Woods, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:25 pm to 3:32 pm.
791-011 3:32 PM · 47 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Elliot L. Richardson, David C. Hoopes, John D. Ehrlichman, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Stephen B. Bull, unknown person(s), Robert P. Griffin, William E. Timmons, Mark I. Goode, Robert Johnson, and John Marshall Gordon met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:32 pm to 4:16 pm.
791-012 4:16 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:16 pm and 4:24 pm.
791-014 4:26 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:26 pm to 4:28 pm.
791-015 4:30 PM · 53 sec — United States Secret Service agents and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House on an unknown date, sometime between 4:30 pm on October 3, 1972 and 11:05 am on October 5, 1972.
146-001 6:00 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Camp David operator talked on the telephone at Camp David at an unknown time between 6:00 pm and 7:19 pm.
215-001 6:00 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Aspen Lodge study at Camp David at an unknown time between 6:00 pm and 7:19 pm.

All 64 conversations from October 3, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 791-013, October 3, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/791-013 (accessed September 18, 2026).