{"conversationCode":"791-013","tapeNumber":791,"conversationNumber":13,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-791-013","startDateTime":"1972-10-03T20:24:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-03T20:25:00.000Z","startDate":"3-Oct-1972","startTime":"4:24 PM","endDate":"3-Oct-1972","endTime":"4:25 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Griffin, Robert P.; Timmons, William E.;","description":"On October 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Robert P. Griffin, and William E. Timmons met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:24 pm to 4:25 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 791-013 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 791-13\n\nDate: October 3, 1972\nTime: 4:24 pm - 4:25 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Robert P. Griffin and William E. Timmons.\n\n        Welfare\n           -Children\n           -Social workers\n           -Busing\n           -Titles I, II, III\n                -Costs\n\nGriffin and Timmons left at 4:25 pm.\n\n                                          (rev. Nov-03)","filename":["791-013.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Griffin, Robert P.","Timmons, William E."],"prevCode":"791-012","nextCode":"791-014","transcript":[{"start":0.45,"end":1.23,"text":"What do you find, Bob?"},{"start":1.79,"end":2.41,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":2.57,"end":3.43,"text":"Up the wall, Bob."},{"start":4.03,"end":5.85,"text":"You know what they think?"},{"start":5.87,"end":11.83,"text":"They think all of these lazy, fast, free-loading, free-loaders, illegitimate children."},{"start":12.05,"end":13.15,"text":"Basically, that's what it is."},{"start":13.81,"end":14.47,"text":"A lot of it's not fair."},{"start":14.51,"end":16.27,"text":"You know, some welfare is necessary."},{"start":16.78,"end":20.02,"text":"But a lot of it is fair to think there are free-loaders."},{"start":20.04,"end":20.66,"text":"I get it."},{"start":20.7,"end":25.28,"text":"Well, I mean, oh, you know, social workers give the money away."},{"start":25.82,"end":26.86,"text":"That wasn't fair."},{"start":33.63,"end":34.31,"text":"First three titles."},{"start":34.51,"end":36.66,"text":"Oh, I haven't got so many titles."},{"start":36.7,"end":37.94,"text":"Well, across the board."},{"start":37.96,"end":38.14,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":38.16,"end":40.26,"text":"$22 billion or something."},{"start":40.3,"end":40.82,"text":"That's a lot."},{"start":40.84,"end":40.94,"text":"When?"},{"start":41.7,"end":42.88,"text":"Come to Michigan."},{"start":43.48,"end":44.27,"text":"Come to Michigan."},{"start":44.28,"end":45.01,"text":"I get to, uh..."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Senator Robert Griffin and William Timmons to discuss public perception of the welfare system and the fiscal implications of various welfare program titles. The participants critiqued the administrative handling of welfare funds, specifically citing frustrations with social workers and the perceived prevalence of benefit misuse. The brief exchange underscored the political pressure to address the high costs associated with these legislative titles.","topics":["Welfare reform","Public policy","Government spending","Social services","Political strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-07T23:47:34.893Z"},"topicSlugs":["welfare-reform","public-policy","government-spending","social-services","political-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":56,"audioFiles":[{"file":"791-013.mp3","bytes":1343528,"durationSec":55.92,"bitrate":192207,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:58.287Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/791-013.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/791-013","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/791/conversation-791-013","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}