Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 796 › Conversation 796-002

Nixon & Ehrlichman on Congressional Relations and Debt Limit

Thursday, October 12, 1972 · 9:01 AM–9:06 AM ET · Oval Office · 4 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.Conversation796-002 on Tape 796StartThursday, October 12, 1972 at 9:01 AMEndThursday, October 12, 1972 at 9:06 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 796-002 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman met to strategize on legislative tactics regarding the federal debt limit and spending legislation as the congressional session drew to a close. They discussed the administration's firm stance against spending amendments, as well as the political complications surrounding a potential busing filibuster led by Senator Hugh Scott and James B. Allen. Ultimately, Nixon directed the administration to resist compromise on these issues, favoring a strategy that would allow Congress to conclude its session without enacting unfavorable legislation.

Audio

Download MP3 · 5.5 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Two developments.
One, your phone call had quite an effect on Long.
He pulled off a prepared statement he had planned to read, and it said nothing.
He just mumbled up there and said,
The paper this morning says he's now saying there will be some kind of a spending limitation, but he doesn't know just what it will be.
Do we want some kind of a spending limitation?
No, we want to argue at this point that we need what the House did, a clean spending limitation.
Len Jordan is an awkward man.
He sees this as a constitutional question and all that below me.
He's not here.
He's not here.
He won't come.
Uh, Bennett will talk undoubtedly in this meeting about an amendment.
We all feel strongly from a, from a tactical standpoint, we should not show any give at all at this point.
The Senate may roll us on the question of an amendment, but...
I have a couple questions.
Yeah.
We actually want to get the Congress out of here.
Sure.
Sure.
It's possible.
they're still 80 percent they are uh what is the situation on the filibuster bussing bussing may hang it up they may not be able to get out of here scott may talk to you about this this morning he's going to try and get alan to agree to the tabling of bussing with the promise that it'll be taken up early in the next session what should i say to that
You can't agree to that.
You'd have to say that naturally it's a serious problem.
You're going to Atlanta today.
They're under a five-week court order for massive busing in Atlanta.
Five weeks.
Yes, sir.
And that there are communities all over the country.
The Denver case comes up in the Supreme Court this morning for argument.
And this thing is just popping all over the country.
What is it that our people suggested that you might apply?
Yes, sir.
All right.
Now, Scott called me yesterday.
He said, please don't let the President say anything that would prevent or screw up my plan to get bussing tape.
And I said, well, Senator, you know, you could help this thing an awful lot if you'd swing around behind the President on this.
And he said, all my principles wouldn't allow me to do that.
And I said, well, I just don't know what the President's life would say or do.
Well, let's just leave it at that.
uh they'll go over in the next week if alan and scott can't get to some agreement well there are other factors uh humphrey has said he will filibuster a spending limitation there's a there's something going on though uh muskie is terribly afraid of a pocket veto on the water quality bill he would like to keep the congress in session past tuesday to prevent you from pocket veto
Why don't we just also get investigations and so forth?
We ought to get signed by the House and get the hell out the moment.
They're willing.
But what should we—I mean, my point is, why not let them kill it without getting caught in it?
The spending limit?
Everything.
Everything.
That's what's going to happen.
They're just going to bag everything and go home.

NARA Description

On October 12, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:01 am to 9:06 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 796-002 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 796-2

Date: October 12, 1972
Time: 9:01 am - 9:06 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with John D. Ehrlichman.

        Forthcoming press briefing by Hugh Scott and Ehrlichman
            -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger

        Debt Limit Expenditure Ceiling Bill
           -Russell B. Long

        -Telephone call from the President
             -Effect
                 -Withdrawal of statement
        -Press coverage
    -House of Representatives
    -Possible amendment
        -Leonard B. (“Len”) Jordan
        -Location
        -Wallace F. Bennett
        -Senate

Congressional schedule

Busing
    -Filibuster
    -Scott
         -James B. Allen
             -Senatorial procedures
                  -Tabling until next congressional session
    -The President's schedule
         -Atlanta
    -Denver
         -Supreme Court argument
    -Ehrlichman's schedule
         -Atlanta
    -Scott
         -Recent telephone conversation with Ehrlichman
             -Senatorial procedures
                  -Timing

Congressional relations
   -Procedures
        -Allen and Scott
        -Hubert H. Humphrey
            -Filibuster
                 -Spending limitation
        -Edmund S. Muskie
            -Water Quality Bill
                 -Possibility of Presidential pocket veto
                      -Congressional schedule
                          -House of Representatives
   -Spending limit

                  -William E. Timmons
                      -Congressional schedule

         Briefing papers
             -Busing

The President and Ehrlichman left at 9:06 am.

Also recorded on October 12, 1972

  • 796-001 8:59 AM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:59 am and 9:01 am.
  • 108-002 9:06 AM · 26 min — President Richard M. Nixon, George P. Shultz, and Senate Republican leaders, including Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, James E. Smith, Hugh Scott, Robert P. Griffin, Norris Cotton, Peter H. Dominick, Robert J. Dole, Wallace F. Bennett, John G. Tower, John D. Ehrlichman, Kenneth R. Cole, Jr., Ronald L. Ziegler, William E. Timmons, Thomas C. Korologos, William L. Gifford, Wallace H. Johnson, the White House photographer, and members of the press, met in the Cabinet Room of the White House at an unknown time between 9:06 am and 8:48 pm.
  • 796-003 9:45 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:45 am to 9:52 am.
  • 796-004 10:05 AM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Ronald L. Ziegler, and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the Oval Office of the White House from 10:05 am to 10:33 am.
  • 031-032 6:09 PM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 6:09 pm.
  • 031-033 6:09 PM · 15 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 6:09 pm and 6:10 pm.
  • 366-004 6:09 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 6:09 pm.
  • 366-005 6:09 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:09 pm and 6:10 pm.

All 12 conversations from October 12, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 796-002, October 12, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/796-002 (accessed October 10, 2026).