Conversation 799-019

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That's one of the reasons it's a big gun.

You're right.

Yes, you're right.

Absolutely.

That's why I haven't done any black things.

This thing, that thing, wouldn't it be great if they dropped by the cattle mouth or something like that?

Wouldn't it be great at all?

I mean, because I think she got this right.

There's no question that it's a close call.

That's too high risk.

I think it was the wrong call.

Given the result, it turns out to have been right.

But the response call, it was wrong.

You should have sent him.

And let it go and let whatever happens happen.

The point is, we're not...

It did.

But we're not in a position where we should be taking high-risk calls.

It's a foolish thing to do.

Someone could have stood up in the middle of it and said, what are you going to stop the bombing?

Then the members would have focused on her, they would have interviewed her, and that's all you'd see of it.

And they may still pick up a couple of new centers.

Although the assholes are having a good spot, because you know, all that we've been talking about, so goddammit, the lines that they've got to use, they certainly have to, they may have to, I just hope they use Madison, because that's the one that has the greatest national field.

And I think they will, because they'll meet Pat Ritchie.

They disagree with you on that, so they probably use it.

That's right.

They use ambers.

And you did it very tough.

I don't think you made a real mistake.

They really caught you now.

That's right.

I think you got a fair chance of getting ambers.

I don't think you have any chance of getting any ambers.

I really don't.

I just don't.

I think that's...

The only thing would be if they could figure that they could do this next time.

That's right.

Oh, I wanted to ask you about the water.

How's it standing?

Well, I've got the latest draft here.

I can leave with it.

I'm not totally satisfied with it.

I like it.

I didn't want you to know I'm available.

Right.

My feeling is that there's nothing to be done by you on this till tomorrow.

You don't want to rent it today?

None of the...

There's still a chance to wait around.

Sure.

They're having terrible quorum troubles.

Oh, sure.

Well, everybody went home.

They've got to go out.

They'll go to a date circuit and then try to get everybody back.

But you see Mansfield sending everybody telegrams now, trying to get them back for this week.

And so they've got real troubles.

And it's still a chance that they give up the ghost.

So unless we need it for news purposes or something like that.

Well, what is essentially, well, the only purpose of doing that, this would be a good day to do it because you've got so much other things.

Well, that's what I meant.

Tomorrow you've got a bigger play.

But I don't know if it makes that much difference.

What is the situation on the Salt Lake?

You can't have that move the way it has to be.

Apparently Henry just arbitrarily moved it to Thursday and said, if you guys, the R-types don't like it, let's do that.

So I think it's going to happen.

I think he had just returned it on Wednesday.

How about it?

You like that?

Huh?

How about really, let me suggest this, if you want to do it, and so you will raise them, why not do it from here then?

I don't think there's any harm in that.

Do you think it means that much to go through the crap that we did more than can do?

I mean, if you do, I'm willing.

I don't know if you, but, you know, I mean, it's a great sequence for them.

And I could do it over the OV then.

I don't want to go to this office.

I don't want to go to the Oval Office.

I'm looking it over at the residence.

What about that?

Theater.

Theater is not a good place.

How about the EOB, Executive Office?

The person's office is the executive office.

That's better than here.

We don't have to say where you are.

We don't have to say it, is that right?

No, we don't have to say that.

Alright, why don't we try it that way and do it Wednesday.

Might as well have the little asshole story, but it ain't bad to have one and not double up with it's all okay.

And do it Wednesday, we'll do it here.

Then I will go to Camp David Thursday afternoon.

See, Thursday afternoon there's so many things to clear up here.

Spend the night there.

and then fly from there up to Glidonia so that we avoid the clouds and planes.

Or not.

There's a, what I mean, yes, but I may have to go up for dinner.

Yeah.

Go up at five o'clock, four o'clock.

Four o'clock.

The vice president can host a plane.

Oh yes, he can.

Or Rumsfeld or anybody you want.

That's right, we've got a problem with him.

He's got Chicago.

He can't be here for the ceremony.

He needs a word to us.

I'll pass the word to him.

It's fine.

See you, Ward.

That'll be better, Bob.

We might as well.

We've got a radio talk on next week.

We're there tomorrow.

What about early insecurity?

That's falling apart, of course, Dan.

We caught that state of mind as soon as it all happened.

All he put it is, that's all screwed up because we turned it over to the state department.

I said, well, what are we going to announce it?

He says, I don't know.

I wouldn't be surprised.

The assault's on Thursday, and the trade agreement is on Wednesday.

But next week?

This week.

Well, the trade agreement's like this.

That's wrong.

I didn't do your radio on Thursday, I don't really think.

The trade agreement.

Oh, that's right, we postponed the trade agreement.

It was supposed to have been last Saturday, and it's now Wednesday.

That's what we said, it's the last day.

Henry told me, Henry's putting these cards in.

Well, he's gone now.

Can we find out when the trade agreement is?

Look, I don't want to knock my same story.

Huh?

I said last night it was Wednesday.

All right, then look, let me do the radio tomorrow.

Okay.

See what I mean?

Let's have a, why double up on the stories?

Yeah.

You see, have you got the thing tomorrow then, have you?

We might have.

Yeah, I've got that done.

You see this is the sapphire, right?

Yeah, I'll turn it.

Yeah.

We'll see if we can do that tomorrow and be done with it.

Then I'll just go up to Camp David in the afternoon on Thursday and see if there's any reason to go up there.

Then we'll take all the next morning.

Or Philadelphia and come back to Camp David.

That's where I'll be.

It'll be an interesting story.

I'm not sure.

But, hell, there's a story every day.

In other words, your point is that radio tomorrow is a good idea.

Why not do the radio tomorrow?

How about, how about a solution?

We have a recommendation.

We caught ATW running around that day telling everybody we were going to sign it.

So we got that turned off.

I think there's still plenty of reasons for it to be so.

It still adds 30% to everybody's payroll taxes.

Oh, it's about $500 million over because of the 20% Social Security having soaked up everything that we allowed for it.

What I would like to do with it, my idea would be to sign that, and be to a water in the same, fill it the same day.

You know what I mean?

Right.

One is 500, so the old folks and others can read it.

It's an environmental assumption.

Well, that would be, that would be too cheap.

I'm not sure, I'm not sure you'll have Social Security in any kind of shape.

We've got 71 bills, believe it or not.

So you can lump a lot of things together, you can separate things out, depending on what emphasis you want to give.

That'll be a Wednesday.

That'll be a Wednesday story.

Maybe Thursday.

Maybe it is.

It's not a news type speaker.

It isn't going to be on the TV news or anything.

I think let the Congress have the day in court on Tuesday.

John, I'm going to count on you to give me your best advice.

of the Social Security.

OK.

I want to do the check.

I want to have a long list of the pros and the cons and the rest of it.

I'll show you the judgment I've made on this.

And I'd be very interested in Chelsea's.

He's got to be very legal.

I'd be interested in Colston's.

I don't know anybody else besides you that I would .

should have those as a specter at all.

Do you think anybody else is amused?

Well, I'll talk to Fleming to find out what the agent political thing is.

Yeah, but I want to know what the politics of it, the politics are compared to the 20%.

Get that from Fleming.

Get the other one from...

On Friday, I just talked to the fellows that had been up to see the hall and so on.

If we had 500 people as invited guests,

The best place to have it would be in the courtyard, right in front of the Liberty Dome, as far as the signing is concerned.

Otherwise, we're not going to be able to accommodate the press and the cameras that we want indoors.

It's too congested.

There's a wet weather order, but it's not a good... How many can we get in the hall?

Two hundred.

You'll have more people in there?

Yeah.

What else do you have?

I think it'll make a beautiful picture.

It'll be right under that tower.

We'll be able to go to an indoor site.

Be ready for it.

Yes.

But your best bet, I think, would be outdoors.

Then go inside to do the handshake.

They're standing right in front of the Declaration of Independence room, or whatever it is there, where Benjamin Franklin presided.

And these guys will go by it, and they'll go upstairs and get coffee in the long hall, and then out.

There's a place for a big crowd of Rizzo's guys, outdoors, behind the invited guests.

And they'll cheer in all the right places.

And then 20,000 of his guys in the mall on the other side of the hall for arrival and departure.

That's what he says.

It's a controlled situation.

The weather forecast is good for sunny weather.

I had great satisfaction turning Daniel Shore down.

He came right into the ABC studio.

Just as I finished, they were taking the microphone off, and here was Daniel Shore.

No, no.

He says, I've got a crew outside and I want to take an interview with you.

And I said, what about it?

And he said, well, the same sort of stuff.

I said, no.

He said, no.

I said, that's right.

He said, are you adamant?

And I said, pleasantly negative.

And he crept away.

Well, that ran through my mind, but the real reason, of course, is his brother being in the Montgomery campaign.

You might have said that, Trump.

Well, I'm going to pass the word to the CDS.

No, I'm going to do a CDS interview tomorrow with George Herman about H.R. 1.

So I'll pass the word.

Well, we'll count on you then for the, for advice on that thing.

The water thing, I just can't see any alternative.

I thought a little about it.

I had something for you to read.

I just can't see any alternative.

Only because we've got to live with it for three years.

I didn't have to live with it for one year, I think, to question it for some of the better three years.

Yeah, it'd be a hell of a lawsuit.

You know, you could try and withhold the money.

But only in 10 months.

Well, no, I mean, you could go on your inherent constitutional powers to withhold and get sued and then take the political buffeting day by day that would come.

Well, you might get this one.

You may overrun it, but at least it's worth a try.

What other bills do we have?

Labor ATW.

Yeah, that's running half a billion over.

Well, there's a continuing resolution.

Yeah, there's an omnibus continuing resolution that Mahon is working through.

And so, there's that.

Those are our principle big ones.

There's a product safety bill, which is pretty close to what we advocated.

You'll probably have to take it.

Signing it gets some of the onus off the fact that we sank the other one.

And it sets up an independent product safety agency.

in the executive branch and it will be one of those things which in our master plan right after the first of the year we'll zing back in under somebody and so I think we can plan that.

But there are no other major problems.

We're getting a list together of all these.

There's a

A lot of motion on executive salaries, judicial salaries, legislative salaries on the appointment of this commission.

Remember, every four years you have to appoint a commission.

Well, we haven't.

We have told everybody we're not even discussing it.

The Vice President, acting on behalf of the Senate, appointed some people.

The Chief Justice says he'll wait for you before he appoints his.

The House—the Speaker appointed a couple of people, and I just told everybody to chill.

But right after the election, this is something we're going to have to get at.

Now, the pay board, of course, sits on top of this, regardless of what this commission does.

So it might not be a bad idea to appoint George Bolt to the salary commission.

He's been a judge and all that.

And let him... Well, typically, these guys will come in with recommendations.

Well, it's Congress and the judges primarily that you get the pressure from.

There are congressional staff making $38,000, $40,000 a year up there.

That's probably raising all the GS grades and all these cost of living increases.

You've got everybody stacked up at the same salary again.

So anyway, that thing's bubbling along.

There's some pretty interesting legislation in this bundle, redrawing the circuit court boundaries and all that kind of stuff.

All right.

But nothing you need to take any time on.

Dean had a talk with Segretti this morning.

Segretti feels he's been jobbed.

He didn't talk to this guy except as an attorney, he says.

He went to him for legal help.

Well, he'll have to transfer this barman for the guy that

to disclose the contents of the conversation.

And Zagretti now wants this much.

Wants to go out and say that he never had any directions from the White House and was never programmed by the White House and this and that.

Well, they're taking an affidavit from him.

That's right.

The world seems to make sense.

What does he think is his fault?

He has a job.

He's his best friend with a job.

Yeah.

For political reasons.

To build a variety for himself.

Right.

So what about at this point, just say that you're a liar.

If I did not have any direction, then why else is this?

Well, let's see what we get in the affidavit.

Then we can structure it any way we want.

There's not a process.

But listen, can I...

Anybody go for my idea that somebody's still in the Washington Post?

You see, the reason...

I have heard... Well, I've suggested to several people, nobody seems to understand it.

They all bring up the fact that there is, there can be no political violence in Sullivan.

Good God, I've tried to kill their sponsor.

I know that even if they become public figures against their will, the public doesn't know.

I remember TR got a 25 cent.

judgment, you know.

They remember Bill Langer got $25,000 in Time magazine once.

I got them, sue them for $80,000.

Somebody should sue their bachelors.

It's a hell of a good story.

Do we have anybody that we want to sue?

Who is it?

The psychiatrist?

Yeah.

Has he been lying to you?

I'm not sure.

Certainly there's a lot of...

He's been charged.

He's been charged with being in the wire game, which of course is a

now, but he's been linked to a lot of things by innuendo that he couldn't possibly have done.

That's right.

Yeah, but I mean, that doesn't—does that— He's not a public figure.

No, he is.

Just by the— Yes, under—that was what Hill v. Time was all about.

In Hill v. Time, what happened was that the Hills were the subject

of the, I remember the famous movie where a group of escaped convicts, old people, the hostages, the girl, and all that sort of thing.

Hill is the family.

Time magazine came in, Life went in, and got the story.

After it was made into a movie, and said the family he did is Hill, but they showed obscenities, and the girl had been raped, and so on and so on.

That did not happen.

So Hill brought suit against remaining his family, you know.

Celebrate.

And Hill lost on the ground that.

It was basically a five and a half, four and a half decision.

But he lost for the, in which we got strangely enough, Tom Clark, Earl Warren, and Fortas, and half of the other guys who lived, not Clark, the other, Harmon.

and lost the others.

But my point is that they held that anybody who becomes a public figure by reason of the subject of a public event is subject to the Hillers.

John, there's no libel anymore.

I don't stand for asking you to do anything.

Now, he's wrong.

I'd like to see a Zagrego sue his son's pension.

The question is, if he sues,

Now, would he be deposed before the election?

Probably.

But, well, I'll tell you, I think there's going to be a lawsuit running the other way, in which Muskie or somebody files an action.

Well, still get somebody to, and try and take depositions.

We're cutting the other one, so we don't lose anything by that, certainly.

My point about the suit is that I think it raises the question as to whether the damn story is true.

And then take a right and go out and say, look, that's in the courts.

The lawsuit has been filed, and I'm going to comment on it.

I'm going to comment on it.

See what I mean?

Right.

We'll play it to the star.

Let Sigretti sue the Post and then give an interview to the star.

That's right.

We can stay with Calgar and the rest.

But you see, my point about the suit

I know I lose it.

Good God.

In a public mind, it creates an impression that they love me.

Right.

See the point?

Yep.

They go in on a... How fast can they get a plea in whatever that...

I mean, that's the opposite.

I mean, some are dead, but...

Yeah.

To get it kicked out?

Yeah.

Oh, it would take 15 days to be able to get a certain notice.

I would say a minimum of 45 days.

They couldn't get it before the election.

I don't see how.

All you have is another idea.

All you have to do is sue them and drop the case.

You're running in 62.

I'm going to sue us.

You're going to have to hand drop the case.

You're going to have to sue us.

And it has nothing to do with the merits or the law.

It has to do, basically, that if you get it out as fast as you can, Segretti's going to lose the Washington Post.

Well, that's what we've been looking for, something like that.

Let me check with Dean and see what he gets in this affidavit.

We'll go ahead on that if Segretti— I personally feel that the idea of a suit is just kind of— I was fooling around with the idea of Segretti getting an attorney in Los Angeles to file his barman proceedings against this other so-and-so.

That doesn't do it.

That's sort of .

.

Well, there's a problem.

All right, the warm-hearted, the tatted boy, who hates to do things to an old friend, who gets lucky without praise.

That ain't no old friend he may not be able to see.

Yeah, we'll see about that.

Well, I may be wrong, but we'll see about that.

Let me find out.

No, it's a very effective idea.

It's this there at the end of the campaign.

Right.

And we've got one suit.

I understand.

Well, Maury had sued O'Brien.

That would have sued most.

Sued the goddamn media.

It would be nice if we could do it at the dedication ceremony.

Serve for some of the complaints.

Thanks to that, yeah.

I'm serious.

I doubt they did write that paper.

Nobody's paying attention to that dedication center.

No, I don't mean today, but I'd like to do it in the next three weeks.

Well, it would have to be in order to be effective.

Well, it started still quickly.

You've got to go down and see what the thing is, yeah.

I was thinking, as I was talking to those people, the horrible shit he took from these guys.

But after May, they vacuumed it.

They were sterile.

They were, oh, yeah, lit cigars there.

I was screaming.

My boys, I told those ladies, I said, you, I said, I go, I stuck it to the media.

I said, you know, my president was supposed to go to a decision I made.

My president has to make a trip to a decision like that.

It's normally expected that this old call on people who said bye.

Where were they?

I said, the leaders of the media, the television commentators and the rest.

They were not standing up.

The great business scientists were not standing up.

They were standing up for the president.

And the university leaders were questioning the rest, were against him.

But you, who had the most stake, the great majority stood for the president.

You had a choice of good ones and bad ones.

No use.

I think you get the amnesty.

The amnesty is settled forever.

The only question about amnesty that won't be happening tonight is what happened.

You said that the POWs, that two and a half million men who faced with the decision chose to serve their country.

allowed for that choice, and hundreds of them are missing in action for that choice.

And those men paid a price for their choice.

And those few who decided not to serve their country will pay a price for their choice.

Pay a price for their choice.

And that took their roof off.

It did.

They're up in their chairs screaming.

A couple of times.

In fact, it took the roof off.

It did.

It paid a price for their choice.

I thought he was particularly weak last night on the embassy.

He really was.

He waffled all over the place.

Bounced it again, though.

He came out grand.

The question is, where are we staying?

He's now got a new qualifier.

The war has to be over, and our prisoners have to be returned.

We have to have taken proper care of our veterans first.

That's all I have to say.

Whatever that means.

yeah but until he was advised did he go on to say i would advise no no he's dropped back but he's not going to have oh he's not going to require anything that's right just okay good straight

Do you think, do you think, do you think on this that they can ever say that an atmosphere here is, is not in, I mean, what would make an atmosphere?

I said that they, oh, that's why I said it over and over again.

I can't have a better problem.

You said it so clearly and strong today that they will think you screwed yourself.

Good.

I think.

And therefore, they will run the thing.

Big more.

When the president says that, they will pay for their trust.

They'll think, ah, that's the only thing that's funny.

And you're saying exactly what you ought to say, exactly the right way.

They won't show the people standing in charity.

They'll cut it.

They'll get your thing cut.

No, I think that's right.

You know, they did that to me on CBS last night.

They trimmed out, yeah, they trimmed out 45 seconds to prove the sure premise

And stuck it in.

And, uh...

Sorry.

Well, I was going to say, though, one thing.

All the lines here is that... That one real truth... is greatly underestimated by those assholes who brush it there.

I've never met a man who's tougher, colder, more precise, and he's amazing.

Well, he wasn't bold this morning.

He came in really fired up this morning.

Oh, no, I mean, the way he had to work this morning.

I imagine he's going through his paces out there right now.

Oh, no, I called him and I talked to him and I said, one of the things, of course, that he appreciated was that

I remember that Doug Johnson used to have the tapes take off, and then he'd call in the press secretary for a period of time, and then he'd be here the rest of the way.

It's all like, why didn't you say that?

Why haven't you?

Yeah.

He scared me then.

But Ziegler knows he's going to be back.

That's the point.

Yeah.

He had a microphone in there, listened to it in here, and called the poor son of a bitch in the middle of the briefing.

Did you get that straightened out?

Is that right?

I didn't know what I was going to say.

Is it Ziegler?

You look at his briefings over the time, and the kind that, for example, the other people who used to be on that group of people, because basically it doesn't make that much difference if they get screwed up.

And Henry's, you know, you start with, you know, and Henry's impossible to work with.

And so Ziegler goes out every day, every day, every day, and handles everything.

It has to fight for everyone he gets out of the NSC before he goes on.

It's very interesting that a guy with his background...

He doesn't have any background.

That's why.

Well, that's not all why.

He's able.

He's smart.

He's talented in uncertain directions.

He's smart.

He has a high IQ.

Well, not very.

He has adequate IQ.

But he has a retentive mind.

And he has a willingness to work his ass off

To get himself ahead.

That's the thing, all the time he was working for me, it was obvious.

He didn't always do things right, but he never missed trying to.

And that's the rare thing today.

Damn few people will work that hard.

And he's competitive.

Competitive as hell.

That's right.

Which you have to be.

Right.

But also he has a clear understanding of his mission, and he understands what it is he's supposed to do, and how he's supposed to do it.

And he'll bust his ass to do it.

Also, he's got a steely quality, which is great.

He likes me, but the thing is, you see, actually, we shouldn't, we've got to realize that Klein is excellent at just what he's doing.

But Klein doesn't have the precision to be a Christmash president.

Do you agree?

Oh, absolutely.

I mean, he's driving nuts.

Just nuts.

But he's excellent at what he's doing.

He sort of pads around, talks to the news guys, appears to be earnest and tried, sort of scuttles and bumbles and does very well.

But he's one of them, basically.

Ziegler is not one of them, but he's learned to think like them.

And he's now a master.

But not by being one of them, but by being an enemy.

That's right.

I don't know if you can think of one of them.

It's the talent.

going to maybe adjust as well.

They are all so young in their own vicious way.

Young, you cannot, you cannot, you cannot forgive them.

You cannot be for a reason.

It's terribly important.

Not because they were against you.

Probably, they're against you.

I don't mind.

I don't mind anybody who's ideological.

because of their total diplomacy.

And I'm thinking now, the New York Times, the Washington Post, Time, Newsweek, the three networks have hinted.

Now they've just simply hinted that they are never, never, never having this election to get in.

And this idea, well, it may serve our interests.

Bullshit.

Let them write what they please.

Let them get their stories in other ways.

And we'll give it to such jackass operations in the U.S. News and the Star and Chicago Tribune and the rest.

And the same is true of the professors.

And I see a fellow like Herman Gordon, I'm sure he probably made it on the paper and Schultz had me have him in and work him over and so forth.

But he's not our friend.

So he ain't going to be around that person.

We just cannot risk it.

You ever cannot risk it?

Let me tell you the clearest thing that you saw

I remember when Hodges came in and insisted that we put in this fellow in his head of the UN, Yost.

We put him in.

Yost, I can tell him that I met him in his life, is a totally dedicated State Department liberal.

And he's always screwed with them.

And now he's out in the open doing it.

And you see what really makes him talk about State Department.

He's a dedicated, left-wing Democrat.

who, if he were saying, what are you saying now, normally nobody would pay any attention to it.

The other thing is, the other thing is, this idea that it doesn't matter that we can take intelligent people and make them over and win them over is bullshit.

It can't be done.

Our real problem is finding a few centers

I saw that.

There's a list of pretty good— Pretty old.

Now the guy from Sanford, for instance, is in his favorite street.

I don't know a lot of them.

I know some of them are sitting on the lawn.

But they're great people.

They have great language.

Those guys are more like they are.

The point that I'm making is that it isn't that simple.

I'm beating the people, even the government.

Take the State Department and shake it up and all the rest.

And you notice how those assholes are trying to crawl back now and say, well, they're really disillusioned by the fact that Nixon started, instead of firing, which we should have done, essentially destroyed the institution, which we also should have done.

But the point is, but they also, they have a grudging respect for Kissinger and his travels and Nixon's and like that.

They're trying to crawl back down.

They must not get back.

This is the one reason why we're going to have to get Connelly.

If Connelly's willing to get him in some position, very very important, because he has a nut cutter in his mind.

If he does come in, he's got to be a whole lot more of a nut cutter than he was a tree shrimp.

The trouble with Connelly is that it takes him a hell of a lot of time.

Of course, he didn't know that job.

But we've got to check his background and see if he did fire anybody.

He became governor of Texas.

I think he did.

But I do know this, I do know this, that you've got to, you cannot, you simply cannot trust the modern American product of our great universities.

I mean the great ones.

I don't put Duke in that classification.

I would put Stanford.

I doubt if I could use that.

I mean, the elite schools, let's face it, you cannot trust them.

I mean, there are male men, you may have one or two.

Basically, we have to realize the poor bastards have been green-washed.

Their carriers have been destroyed.

And they are an instance.

And it doesn't make any difference.

The businessmen are the same.

Why is it that the advertising people are so goddamn bad, and the art and the section that they stole me about?

You know why.

They all come out of goddamn Eastern establishment.

They're no good.

Well, the people they're concerned with, they're all Jews.

Which is another thing.

The Jews aren't the same.

Well, that's another thing.

There aren't going to be any Jews.

We've got to report them.

That's it.

We've got a flaming problem with Hesburgh.

I don't know what to do about that.

What does he want to do now?

Well, he knows he's attacking us.

He threw his arm around Shriver when he was there.

Sure.

And I'd like to get the guy off that civil rights commission.

Well, when?

When do we have a chance?

Well, we don't have a chance, but I'd like to just call him in after you rack up a mandate.

and just said the President wants your resignation.

Well, he's appointed for a six-year term.

Unfortunately, we reappointed him.

Hesburgh still kills us all the time.

He has a great respect for you as a person and your beliefs, but frankly, your beliefs are not his.

And therefore, he has a right to be like that in the rest of the nation.

And if he doesn't, let's kill him without a damn agency.

Well, there's some things you can do, unfortunately, to get the money directly from Congress.

But now, on your cuts, if you go to 20 percent, is it 20 percent?

It's 20 percent of 50 tax credits.

It isn't 20 percent of the parts of the board.

Not 30 percent.

This includes the CIA.

Yes, certainly.

One-sixth.

You can cut at your option.

You're not waiting.

He cut more than 20% in everything except those 50 categories.

No, no, no.

He can only put food money in those 50, and he can't put anything in the other categories.

See, there are certain exempt items, like the interest on the national debt, better social security, although he can cut administration and social security.

Last in, first out.

But my point is, I want a 20% cut.

This is the opportunity to cut people in administrative positions.

I want that in agencies that, for example, CIA is one.

I want you to come out there and ask.

And it's a mistake.

All of them.

Across the board in the Foreign Service, a 20% cut.

Just go right down the line.

And defense, civilian personnel, 20% cut.

I mean, what I'm saying, I don't need to die off a hammer and nail.

No.

I need the people that work at the Pentagon and so forth.

Yep.

I got you.

All the executive staff.

What I'm trying to do is, I want a 20% cut of executive staff.

And of course, the rest of the leaders with it.

Now, this is a way that we can really do what needs to be done.

And you see, to carry out our plan, to clean up the area, too.

Yep.

20% state.

20% in the rest.

But it ain't going to be on the basis of seniority.

I mean, I don't know how you're going to do it over at State.

You've just got to have the older vets retire.

I go to the top of the spectrum.

Rather than have to lose people.

Those are probably quite the vets.

Well, after college.

At State, some of the middle ones are worse than the old ones.

Some of the old ones are pretty good.

And some of the young ones are damn good.

I'd let Carlucci determine that.

Put him over there and send him over there.

Henry's concerned about that.

Because Carlucci's, Henry's reading is that he's very much on their side in that area very much as well.

I will not be slighted your way at all.

I think we ought to get his package and look at it.

Henry said to be sure to check it out with the CIA stuff.

Look at what he did.

But this may be a hatchet job that the state's doing.

Yeah, let's find out.

Let's find out.

That'd be so you can believe what they have.

Nobody would tell.

I mean, he will not vote.

He will not debate.

None of the right types.

He'll always keep the elections.

You don't have to.

For example, in Arizona, he's got to get Sonnenfeld out.

He's got to for a reason.

cannot be adjusted over a long period of time.

But this, coming back to the state defense, and then suddenly, I think, right down the line, I need justice alone.

The AGW cut.

HUD cut.

All the new agencies cut.

Agriculture, that can be cut.

Interior can be cut.

Indian Affairs, this is an order, 50% cut.

those things those things that are when we get up to this population in Washington that's what I want and the regional offices too I think it's a golden opportunity

Everybody knows that they're massive.

Is that so wrong?

Good line.

But I don't want five percent.

My name.

The key thing is you've got the chance to control.

You've got a chance to cut, but because of the electrical post-election, you've got a chance to control where it's cut, rather than simply turning it over then having it cut.

Get rid of the people you want to get rid of.

We've got the police force.

They need a chance to go and partially identify.

Yep.

I didn't think it was tough enough.

No, it's not.

But they know that.

I mean, it's rough.

Yeah, it's quite moving.

One moment.

Because it's a very nerve-wracking thing, emotionally straining to do these things.

She came to the person, and she said, would you give this to your daughter, Trish?

She was Mexican.

Says, SS.

So he sees one of them.

He wants to listen to that.

Ricardo Davis.

320.

Section 9.

Yeah, we went.

And she had a big sort of a battle in Mexico.

I had five kids.

When you think of that, and he's sending amnesty to those lousy, stinky sons of bitches we saw in Canada.

Never, never, never.

Those bastards will rot in jail or stay in Canada.

Believe me, they will.

I will never change my opinion on that.

Never.

John, you see, I don't know.

One thing we have to understand is that this is going to be a shock wave.

And I don't know how we can do it.

I don't know.

We've got to live.

We don't want to go down.

Even though we're in, we've got to remember that, you see, one of the problems that you've got to remember, as we win an election for a second term, is that we have enormous responsibility.

And we never had before.

Even though it's indeed the idea of an election coming up and having to do some wrong things in order to win, or some things that are unwise, at least they're not wrong.

The fact that an election is coming up is basically a discipline.

When you do not have that discipline, then you have awesome power with no discipline.

So the discipline we must apply on ourselves.

We must do the right thing.

That's why you just can't say screw over this or that or the other thing.

My point is, that is what we're trying to do.

But I hear, with a dissent mind, let me put this in the context of the press.

The context of the press, John, the one thing I never agree with, is that we must talk to the left-wing press, because they're going to do the story anyway.

And therefore, we better get a good look at what we can.

On this point, while we do want public relations, as good as we can, I have determined that in death's door, we have to use the television.

I will have to do so-called incidences.

And on occasion, very, very narrowly selected.

But as far as the writing press, who are not as bad as the television press, and the television commentators, and the restaurants, and that are against this rule, you just do it.

And particularly in terms of what I had mentioned, you have got to pick some enemies and never compromise.

Now, Henry, I still talk to you today.

He says, Henry, I said, here, you saw what my kid did in 125 of 150 of your editorial work.

He says, by the way, I just find that's a terrific book.

because of 125, if they could have held their endorsement for a week, because of 125, 100 of their editorial orders were rejected.

And that does show a threatening thing, and also proves the point, like the deal, where does life stand now?

But here's the interesting thing, I said, Henry, you know, you've got, I just guessed, and I hit it right on target, I said, you've got to do a timeline of eight times, you know what I mean?

He didn't answer me.

Oh, no, he hasn't been eight times on this year.

I said, no, I haven't.

I said, well, I guess I have.

I said, have you ever told anyone?

Never told anyone.

That's what I'm talking about.

And I mean what Shetford was saying.

Sure, he's a nice fellow.

His ass stays out.

I would not talk to a news magazine.

Never again.

Never, never, never, never.

That's the kind of discipline we want around here, except the U.S. News will play it.

The U.S. News will play it.

The New York Times, we will never play.

The New York Times must be ostracized.

That means Semple, Dale, all of them are not going to get in.

Now, I've said this before, but I mean it.

I mean it for the next three weeks, too.

There ain't nothing you can talk to the Times about, believe it or not.

Except for the night of the event.

That's why we're right not to try to return any calls at all.

There's nothing to do with the Post.

To say that if one saw Spice Carroll go back, he likes him, it's a version.

Who doesn't like Carroll?

Nevertheless, he's with the Washington Post.

He gets nothing.

Nothing.

That's something I've got to talk about socially, too.

They're going to be invited.

When I have a Christmas party over here, they aren't going to be on the list.

They're not going to be in that house.

And you can do that.

You can do that.

But the others will be little.

After all, it's my invitation, my house.

They come to the press conferences.

They will never be recognized at the press conference.

That's the way it's going to be played.

Listen to him already.

Sure.

He's an enemy, and I know that.

Edward B. Morgan, I know what he is.

He makes no bones about it.

But not these assholes.

That's what we've got to do.

That's the way to play the game.

I don't think that won't hurt.

Don't think it won't help us.

First and foremost, with our friends and building them up a league.

The one thing we've got to try to do is get our friends to get some good reporters.

I don't know whether we can.

See if we can't help a lot of cases of promising that we'll beat them.

But, you know, it's kind of tough to rely on the teleporter.

He was a wonderful guy to me, much of a reporter.

I don't have a symbol that's going to leave me at times.

Where the hell would he go?

Well, that ties to what Bob's just saying.

He'd go to the Tribune or someplace where we could feed the hell out of him.

Even the Los Angeles Times.

We're going to have to play the band, Los Angeles Times.

I mean, you know what I mean?

It's bad news, but you've got to play it.

And they did the motions.

But he came to the Los Angeles Times with the Washington Post News Service.

And their Monday paper today, as far as I can find, has not one line about the spaghetti case or any of that crap.

Well, because of him, of course.

And you'll notice that this is probable.

But the police just... And that's even though Dwight Schiff and Hunter Koppach were both from L.A. And spaghetti, you see?

That's all there is to it.

I'm not going to screw around anymore.

Well, that's the difference.

They don't go under the label of enemy.

They go under the label of objective reporter, which is they are.

And we constantly build them up every time we see them.

So they don't get those nice, featured chats when you're talking about the future of the administration.

No.

The New York Times is going to get one.

The Washington Post is it.

Times, Newsweek is it.

Life is it.

If anybody talks to any one of those people from now on, out of this administration, is that clear?

First, the next release is obvious.

But from now on, they're out.

Now, the network of people, we dialogue, I know that, for a while.

But there you pick and choose.

You write and see much of it.

We don't, we don't.

Maybe we have to see more of it.

But my point is, the network of people, they don't come around.

Like Henry has been bugging us for months and months and months to go on call shows.

I won't let him go on call shows.

I was over there when he went to Theodosius today and was to kill him.

Well,

They don't ask for appointments.

They don't come around.

Berlariani comes around once in a while.

Huh?

Yeah.

Well, you see the...

We played the game the other way, and it's not like we played it my way at all.

It began for a while.

Let's try it.

What do you think?

I mean, you may disagree with that.

No, I don't.

I don't.

I'm totally disagreeing.

It makes for hard sense in a way.

Ziegler will have a great problem on it.

Henry will be our worst man down here.

He'll be.

All we've got to do is we've got to develop a technique or style to deal with it.

Which is the thing that... To Jerry Sheppard.

Jerry, it's something personal.

It's just that there's no point in listening.

Well, exactly.

Like my last conversation with Sample.

Sample called and said that my brain beat out by the Washington Post.

And my editor said,

created by

I told her, I told her, I heard about the five children.

He is probably an MIA, that's my guess.

See, these MIAs, they're the ones that really have their mouths stank.

Because they have a hole in the tail.

Right in here, it's got mouths.