Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 800-005
Date: Monday, October 16, 1972 at 5:34 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Staszak, Joseph J.; White House operator; Agnew, Spiro T. (Vice President)
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/800-005

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:10] Vietnam approval is up from our last one it was 54 it's 56 so it's
[0:39] The interesting thing is, awareness of McGovern's plan to end the war in Vietnam on television was 62, which is pretty high.
[0:53] It's part of the course, it's not super high, like your main aid was 80.
[0:58] But then we passed our usual favorable, somewhat favorable, unfavorable, you know, question.
[1:02] The very favorable was 12.
[1:06] where your May 8th bike conversion was 34.
[1:10] Yeah, that was not good.
[1:15] Okay, take, take Park or our course, runs at about 25, very favorable.
[1:23] Like the busing announcement was 25.
[1:24] Vietnam, January 26th was, 25th was 29.
[1:28] The economic announcement last August was 27.
[1:37] 23 somewhat favorable, for a total of 35 favorable at all, 20 somewhat unfavorable, and 38 very unfavorable, for a total of 58 unfavorable.
[1:48] Did I lose the issue?
[1:50] Sure.
[1:56] I totally share your view on that thing this morning and I know it from having Dr. Coulson crack and he was the one apparently that was pressing him.
[2:09] He and my other governor, who else was pressing him, said that he, you know, every environment was high risk.
[2:16] But it was one of those things we should have done.
[2:18] As I've heard, as it turned out, I mean, going over there.
[2:21] As it turned out, yeah, but that is the way we should make that kind of decision.
[2:26] But that's exactly my point.
[2:28] I think that the thing that would concern me is again and again this campaign and the position we're now in.
[2:35] We should not say, Jesus, we've got a terrible story going on today.
[2:38] Send the president out, you know, to kiss a baby on the fat ass.
[2:42] That's really what it is, yeah.
[2:43] Although this one may have been a blessing in disguise.
[2:50] That's the way to run this thing.
[2:52] So we missed some good opportunities.
[2:55] As it turned out, this was a good one.
[2:57] And then kind of a star banner headlines it with a big picture of that woman giving you a hug with her POW bracelet on.
[3:05] And a banner headline, Nixon says we won't, I thought that it leads with the, we won't leave our POWs up to the goodwill of the enemy.
[3:17] And then the next point is amnesty.
[3:19] They've got to have, yes sir, that's their second point.
[3:22] Only the networks will pick up those two technologies.
[3:24] I just keep across that they're both, I don't know, that's not great.
[3:29] They might.
[3:30] But you know, those were two good lines.
[3:32] You know, it's an interesting thing.
[3:34] If that had been prepared for me,
[3:38] I'd have probably never made those points as well.
[3:41] You know what I mean?
[3:43] But by the time they'd gone through all the agony and heard something, well, it's one of those things that sometimes you can do a little bit better by thinking quickly and just learning about it.
[3:55] On this thing, we took some of the McGovern-specific points, and this is kind of interesting to view what Andrew's up to now.
[4:03] The things McGovern said he would do to bring an end to the war, do you agree or disagree?
[4:07] Versus immediately stop the bombing and all other acts of force.
[4:10] 39-52, disagree.
[4:13] And all military and political support to South Vietnam.
[4:21] 32-57, disagree.
[4:22] Withdraw all American forces and all military equipment within 90 days.
[4:27] 30-62, disagree.
[4:37] A lot of Vietnamese who work out their own internal political policies completely by themselves, 55-37 agree.
[4:44] That's basically what we're doing.
[4:47] That's right.
[4:49] Send the vice president to hand, only 60-30 agree.
[4:52] That's just because they
[5:02] to those persons who left their country or went to jail to avoid the draft.
[5:05] 2762 disagree.
[5:06] I know that my amnesty statement sounds shockingly true.
[5:13] When Governors charge that the South Vietnamese government of two is corrupt and undemocratic, 4022 agree.
[5:20] In charge of corrupt officials, South Vietnamese
[5:25] The government is charged with re-election of President Nixon will mean four more years of war.
[5:32] 2264 disagree.
[5:50] they commit espionage and sabotage more or less likely, 21% less likely, 69% no effect.
[5:58] Sixty-nine.
[6:00] Sixty-nine.
[6:01] Twenty-one.
[6:02] Sure, they are.
[6:21] He's a great man.
[6:22] Crow in Philadelphia is really a marvelous man.
[6:47] I got to stick around here, and he does the work, but I'll tell him that I talked to you, because I know he makes a great deal of it.
[6:56] All right.
[6:57] You do it.
[6:58] I like to see it.
[7:06] Well, it is to you, but why is... No, I don't mean that I...
[7:12] Yeah, they're very good.
[7:16] I...
[7:46] It's true, son.
[7:47] And he will.
[7:48] You don't realize what a thing it is to him.
[7:53] I think we were right, didn't we?
[8:10] Yeah.
[8:12] And you gotta, uh...
[8:15] He says, you banner the star, and the charge story is down here in the lower left-hand corner, and the zigger answer story was decided.
[8:24] And it says that zigger, I forget how they phrase it, but they make the point that zigger hit back, attacked the critic, or attacked this thing.
[8:39] They pushed him, and he refused to
[8:41] You know, he had, he had to ride through the thing for a while, but I will not.
[8:44] Good.
[8:44] Sure.
[8:45] Do it.
[8:45] Anything I'll find.
[8:52] Well, this is going to come up in a moment.
[9:08] I'll find something.
[9:10] Oh, sure.
[9:11] Tomorrow or the next day.
[9:14] I think basically they're going to get the dirtiest they can because they don't want to go to earlier.
[9:24] They know that these things don't last long.
[9:41] But look, people are thinking about Vietnam.
[9:43] They're thinking about welfare.
[9:44] They're not being concerned about the very Christian campaign.
[9:49] I mean, they would have.
[9:51] Got it.
[9:51] But those are not lying.
[9:52] And you've also got to be sure that he doesn't approve of such things.
[9:55] They don't want the president involved in that.
[9:58] You know what I mean?
[9:59] That's the real truth.
[10:00] So you keep him away from it.
[10:01] He doesn't approve of it.
[10:02] He doesn't lie about it.
[10:04] Otherwise, they think about those over-intrusive campaign things.
[10:13] One comment, I don't know what you want to make, but it might be a pretty good idea is to call the Vice President.
[10:19] Just, how's it going, and hear good reports.
[10:23] He's in now, on his way out, next day or two.
[10:28] And I've talked to him today.
[10:30] He's in great shape.
[10:31] He has no complaints or problems or anything.
[10:33] So you won't get any flak from him.
[10:35] Why do you care about the flak?
[10:37] No, what I mean is, there's no point calling if he's going to get into a big...
[10:41] All right, but he thinks we're doing everything right.
[10:46] He did ask.
[10:50] He thinks that we're handling it right.
[11:01] He thinks that they keep it up, that it will have some small eroding effect.
[11:07] And he says, but I think that's inevitable.
[11:08] If they don't have that, they're going to have something else that will anyway.
[11:12] They said, based on my thing, when they put me on 68, it works you, it'll work it down at some point.
[11:21] I'm not so sure, I'm not so sure how far you can elude the presidency, because there's a backlash thing in there.
[11:30] There's a, the factor that, you know, we pick up in the conversation on some people don't like smear, they don't like the smear.
[11:40] But on the other hand, you see, they're saying we're the dirty game.
[11:43] We've got to say they're the dirty game.
[11:44] That's what happens.
[11:46] It's a really tough job.
[11:48] You've got to try.
[11:51] He says he just can't get anybody to say he can't get a famous client to take it on.
[11:56] He's got to do it himself now.
[11:58] He's got to do a hell of a job.
[12:02] He's got to do it.
[12:04] Why else?
[12:05] Never.
[12:06] Never.
[12:06] Never.
[12:11] We do have animals, but I didn't get any animals with us.
[12:26] It's a good idea to cut it in half.
[12:39] That's right.
[12:39] And I think we've been right on our strategy on end-keeping, though, in that I'm not a person that's positive.
[12:46] And of course, my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-
[13:07] You understand that?
[13:09] They're smart if they're not.
[13:10] They are, and the national president will give this survey, I encourage you not to roll.
[13:16] Oh, it must be a roll, roll, roll.
[13:18] It's just got to be a roll, you know.
[13:19] Well, you know it is locally, and it's getting more of a roll than you think, actually.
[13:23] Look at it.
[13:25] It's getting, the Washington Post devoted four pages to it today.
[13:32] Could I take one of those?
[13:34] I don't have national life in China.
[13:35] It wasn't personal.
[13:41] He's an asshole, and you have to find out how we all feel.
[13:46] You have to find out about this and that.
[13:52] Now, another of those guys that is now out there, because he's with my wife, would be a person called White, Teddy White.
[14:05] I'll have to leave.
[14:07] I'm not sure.
[14:07] I'm not sure.
[14:09] I'm not sure.
[14:44] He'd give them a bunch at a time.
[14:46] We tried to get everything they did, but it's just harder when people get off.
[14:51] Vice President's off to Grand Rapids and Green Bay.
[14:56] He's doing some tapings here tomorrow.
[14:57] Grand Rapids and Green Bay.
[15:00] On Wednesday, the House sent dinner Thursday night.
[15:03] I gave him your suggestions on how to approach that.
[15:07] Anything that the Revenue Chair tried, he's going to preside over.
[15:12] He's supposed to be in Chicago with their
[15:25] I'm glad, I hope it didn't put you out too much to have to be there for revenue sharing, but I thought it was very important in doing the role that you play that you be there, and that'll be a really hell of a ceremony.
[15:55] I know that.
[15:57] Well, could you do that?
[16:04] Sure.
[16:05] Oh, we'll do that in the morning.
[16:07] And then you can whip off an airplane and get to Chicago very soon.
[16:11] But the time breaks.
[16:12] An hour is a safe time.
[16:16] That's right.
[16:22] Well, where we were going to try it, I think we're going to have the reception and the pictures in that room, but the room only seats 200, or stands 200.
[16:30] So what we're going to do is to have it, in the weather, as the forecast was good, right outside the building in front of the Liberty Bell.
[16:39] So everybody will see that makes really better television in a sense.
[16:42] Then we'll have the talking bay.
[16:49] everybody there, you know, combined on picture taken in the world.
[16:54] And that picture, of course, will go back and be searched by the mayors and governors and all the rest of us.
[17:03] And, uh, the, uh, but, uh, I think, generally speaking, that, uh, we just ought to proceed on our own course and not let these people, uh, I mean, they're going to get 30 or 30 years, they go on.
[17:15] The only thing I would do, I think we have to do is to say, all right, we're not going to talk about this, we're going to talk about the issues, which we've been doing, you know.
[17:24] And I particularly think it's important to keep the foreign policy issue, foreign policy and defense off the front and center.
[17:35] I know you have.
[17:42] Oh, he's raised it now.
[17:44] He's raised it now.
[17:45] Oh, I think we just want to keep hammering on it.
[17:48] What other issues do you find are the ones people are interested in?
[17:51] Well, there's various different places about that.
[17:54] Right.
[17:57] Right.
[17:58] Good.
[18:04] Right.
[18:04] Right.
[18:07] Great.
[18:10] Sure.
[18:11] and they move the Democrats.
[18:18] That's all you do there.
[18:20] You just want to prove your progress there.
[18:24] But I think on the domestic issues, I think welfare is a very big issue in the sense that basically they're against it.
[18:39] Whatever it is.
[18:40] But you see,
[18:57] rather than talk so much about ours.
[19:00] The main thing there is to say that he just, he had three plans, all of which had billions, billions of taxes and billions of the wealth of everyone else.
[19:09] We're against them all.
[19:12] That's right.
[19:14] Right, right.
[19:14] Sure.
[19:16] You don't bother us, right?
[19:46] Great, that's great.
[19:50] Yeah.
[19:50] Yeah.
[19:51] Oh, I know you have.
[19:55] The reports of the next one.
[19:57] It's about life.
[19:58] Yeah.
[19:59] Yeah.
[20:00] That was a man.
[20:01] It was a fantastic success.
[20:04] I went over and did the BWYs.
[20:07] They were great.
[20:08] They were great.
[20:09] Yeah.
[20:11] Well, I should have done it.
[20:12] I should have done it.
[20:13] Well, it gave me a chance to crack a weapon on that.
[20:17] I never miss an opportunity.
[20:18] I never miss an opportunity.
[20:20] Incidentally, on the Alice Smith dinner, would you extend to the Cardinal my very best wishes?
[20:25] And you can also tell him, I think we already told this privately, that I have asked you to tell him personally that the President has already put down in his book that if he survives the election, that he will come next year, a non-election year, and the President wants to come to the dinner.
[20:43] And you've been authorized to make that commitment personally.
[20:48] Again, I just say that to him in person.
[20:50] One other thing on that that I, if you could work it into your schedule.
[20:57] I've done it in here several times, and it means an awful lot to the cardinal if you could come and shake hands with the ID.
[21:05] The reason is that's purely a fundraiser.
[21:08] That's more than half Jewish now.
[21:10] And it's expensive money, but they all interested in the money.
[21:14] And the other, usually, people arrived and said, I need a good chicken.
[21:19] It's the only one thing, generally speaking, I never believed in that, but it's one where you will meet the most important, frankly,
[21:36] Except I think you can talk something about it.
[21:40] It's already talked about in positive terms about
[22:06] Sure, sure.
[23:06] Great.
[23:07] That's great.
[23:15] That's good.
[23:16] Just right.
[23:17] Just right.
[23:18] Just right.
[23:21] Good.
[23:22] Good.
[23:24] Great.
[23:24] Great.
[23:24] Well, that'll do.
[23:26] Okay.
[23:26] Well, good luck and see you bright.