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I think it would be around noon, maybe 1 o'clock.

Yes, I think so.

I think we should get a telephone call.

It would be perfect.

It's probably impossible that he may have to stay there another day.

I was just thinking that's all the crap he had to do there.

Yes, sir.

Is he having someone sitting in the meeting with him?

Yes.

Well, I suppose it's all right to get him a little pregnant, although I have no confidence in a man because of his closeness to your hair.

What do you think?

Well, I think he's ambitious enough that he, uh... Yeah.

It's too late now.

He's already a little pregnant, isn't he?

Pretty pregnant, yeah.

Well, he hasn't shown himself, has he?

Well, he hasn't seen the political scene.

Well, I don't know if I got all of it.

He would be sure to, be sure to.

Henry is, has raised on two or three occasions his might and weapon, and they can't convince him to disclose it in order to keep us, keep our marbles from the property of the bombing hall.

It cannot be done.

Leading out a military attack, I disagree with those principles.

it would be devastating to be a mounting halt.

And we should know that.

He's so personally involved in this thing now that

You know, he wants to be able to throw this and that and the other out.

That's one way that it's not negotiable.

I covered all that with him.

You covered that with him.

Yeah, he raised it with me and said when he was going through his, you know, new scenario of going through to Hanoi and then holding it up.

And I said, and then he, I said, you can't do that.

Once you've gone there, then you've got to go all the way.

And then he got into the other side of it, which was the,

He said, of course, you'd have to suspend from then on through to one more time.

He said, there's no way.

That you can't even consider from a political viewpoint in this country

You can hold for a couple of days while you're finishing a Saturday.

You cannot hold for an extended period that carries you through the election.

No, sir.

No way.

Absolutely cannot.

We've done that before.

They kill us for that.

I could not believe it.

That's almost the only thing that could lose us the election.

And that's good.

It's very, very serious.

Henry has no understanding.

We pulled this, the bombing halt.

We were against 85.

It's the fact that 82 to 18 is the figure.

82 to 18, if I understand.

Now, Henry's got to get it.

See, he talks to these goddamn liberals.

They think a bombing halt's a great thing.

You know, I think that's a great thing.

Because he asked me, would it be good to have that in my life?

And I said, Henry, you throw the glass in the air.

You stay out of the ballroom.

So I told him, hell no.

I said, a bombing halt is the most devastating thing.

And the last thing he told me was that he completely agreed with me.

Or I said that.

Just so you understand how that gets in any of the way.

put that in a message to others.

Why?

The one thing we cannot have, except for the time he's visiting, except for the time he's visiting, unless there's an agreement.

Unless there's an agreement.

Well, he shouldn't go to him unless there's an agreement.

That was the other guy, but he cannot go to England unless he's got to go up there and try that too.

We pulled him off of that, and in no circumstances can he go up to Norway unless you can.

You know what I mean?

They said, well, they want to be there so much.

I said, well, damn, of course they want you.

I didn't say the other.

He wants to go.

But he must not go there unless it's in the bag.

Because I said, Henry, the moment you go to Hanoi, I said, it's got to succeed.

There can be no right or wrong.

And it's got to succeed fast, because the worst time we're going to have to live with here is the time between Henry going to Hanoi and the time he announced and put into effect the ceasefire.

But we may not come to this thing.

I think our little friend, Hugh, is very tough.

Refused to see Bunker two days running now.

He's had his key advisors in two days.

I think they're going to walk into a goddamn buzzsaw in the sky.

And we may have to get very, very tough.

He thinks he's winning.

He's not going to want to cease fire in place.

with these guys around as capital.

That's where the difficulty's gonna be now.

I think the political side will be able to take more than take.

Well, I think we do, but I think we maybe find ourselves in a position where we have to hold through the election.

to make a public break.

Well, I think his decision with regard to going there must maybe be that he has to re-adopt it.

Well, I... Are you conveyed to Henry that you choose him?

Does he know about the fact that he's refused to see him?

He knows that.

He also knows that I've been opposed to the Hanoi thing and on Sunday I told him that the only circumstances under which he should go to Hanoi are circumstances A, that we have a good settlement

B to Q is enthusiastic about it.

That's right.

And if we put it past the election, I'm not as worried, as I indicated, about the fact that, well, after the election, you know, they won't sell it as well.

They're all settled because these guys are hurting.

They're hurting, and also after the election, there isn't any question about anybody else.

They're going to be looking right down the gun barrel.

They don't know it, and they're going to punish it worse.

That's all there is to it.

On the other hand, I think we know that we've gotten what is necessary for a good settlement.

And that in itself, the knowledge of that, adds to our flexibility a great deal.

I don't think they're going to.

But anyway, you have passed on to Henry.

You see, even going to Saigon poses problems.

Because it raises expectations, and it'll look like you've turned it down.

Now, he's going to Saigon, and then coming back here is like, remember, here's there for the purpose of negotiating, discussing matters, and so forth, but it'll leak out.

It'll leak, and he's going to have to

Have you told Henry that you does not trust him?

And he read it.

He saw it in the minutes of our meetings.

He read the verbatim text of what you said to me.

It was very clear that he wouldn't trust me.

So he knows as far as his own state there is very, very much.

I have postponed the decision on that Israeli aircraft thing when we got back.

There was no great damn hurry on that thing.

The Israelis haven't done any of the whole dissent.

And let me say that if they want to, as far as the Jewish vote is concerned, don't go to hell.

And Henry, he did put that in there, but I know that's what we're placing well, and we don't, we give it to them now.

But we must, we've got to put, we've got to have some sort of, the Israelis to get some sort of settlement here.

You'll give them the land, aircraft, land, everything else, but you don't need to get them out of here.

After this election, we've got to settle with the Israelis, you know.

That's right.

Well, I think what Henry was trying to do there, and what they do, to give it all to them now, since we're going to give it to them later, we've been doing that.

And they get tougher and tougher and tougher.

Why don't they make it easier?

But I think he wanted to get it in this before the election so it doesn't look like a new policy of the new administration.

I don't care about that.

It's irrelevant.

He should not be interested in the election.

He doesn't understand politics.

There's no reason why he should.

We just do what we want.

We're going to act as if there's no election at all.

We're not going to be concerned about it.

We probably don't know.

Max Baker and all those people, hell with it.

The Jews want to go all in.

I think they helped us on this Soviet-Jewish problem, you know, this scheme that was dropped on us.

as that got turned on.

I was going to say on that, I think I'm giving it a current name, but I don't want it to appear, see, from the election standpoint, it looks like a blank.

to the Jewish community.

I would privately tell Rabin that if you like, you can tell him, now look, the president is sympathetic to this.

The State Department, the Defense Department has not put it right down there.

But he says if we do this now, then it's going to be a straight election.

Boy.

And it would hurt me if he didn't.

He just doesn't believe me.

He says, but you can assure your government that the president is very sympathetic to this, and that they can calm the situation a little later on.

So it wouldn't be my intention to.

I think they're going to build it.

They're going to build it.

We might as well help them at this point.

They're smart people.

We can't hold it back.

And we'll get something out of them later.

But I don't want to give it to them now under election pressures.

So I think privately you know we're being okay with what we heard.

We're not going to do it.

And later on we'll discuss it.

That'll keep us deep to the fire.

With regard to the North Korea thing and so forth, it doesn't concern me.

I mean, those guys in the North Korea, if he wants to screw around, I know what we'll get out of him there.

You know that's important.

I'll be, by acting quickly, yesterday.

They took out all this anti-U.S. rhetoric out of their proclamation.

They were martial law.

Why are they having martial law?

Because they can't run their country or what?

We need to know.

David's point about Vietnam also applies to that place.

People should get out of there.

Let's face it.

If you want to look at it in those terms, now, we can if we've got a main line, a thin line, a trip wire.

But goddammit, for us to have three or four divisions there, it's ridiculous.

We only have to adjust a little bit, I think.

Actually, we've taken quite a bit out.

And we haven't given them what we told them we were going to give them in return for their withdrawal.

We have to give them enough to maintain it.

They're still talking to them, aren't they?

They are, but they've had a little setback.

And that's what's probably behind this.

Okay.

Now, the other thing with regard to this paper that's over here,

that we discussed, I've discussed it with Bob.

The whole line is that I am assuming, Bob, that Director Bob, Bob, I've given him a command that nothing must leave the office.

And therefore he is, as we have ordered, that that paper is trying to be duplicated and not to leave the White House.

Don't save your office, the White House.

And I've said that.

And he called for a look at it, but he said it's not marching for him.

He's a leader.

You probably can't keep him from doing it, I guess, but I just don't want it battling around with those assholes over there.

We're just not that sure yet.

That's right.

And that's the only way the paper shouldn't go over.

But Bob, Bill wants it.

You know what Bill wants it for.

He wants to take it home.

He wants it so that they can go over and critique it.

And they'll critique it.

And by the time you get down to the desk officer and all the rest, first, they'll leave.

Second, they'll come in with 34 objections, none of which being a God damn thing.

Well, Bill wants to get it down to the others.

Marsha Green hasn't had a crack at it, for example.

And the desk officer hasn't had a crack.

I know what it is.

The same damn thing we went through, frankly, on Salt.

Yeah.

And, of course, earlier at Berlin.

Huh?

Berlin.

Oh, Berlin.

Well, we went through Berlin.

We also went through Shanghai community.

I'm sure Jesus Christ himself.

And none of it mattered.

I mean, they were doing it simply to prove their manhood.

But mainly, I just think we could say that they aren't going to have a duplicated party in the White House.

Period.

It's a good rule, isn't it?

I think it's a good rule.

He said, fine, you're set.

That's what he was calling that, though.

be sure to warn Henry that he better get him off the table now that he's going to Sidon, should be reevaluated in terms of Jews.

Or do you think he knows this?

No, I think he knows this.

Right.

In other words, we don't need to remind him that this test, very high risk, is going.

If he goes and comes back, he's not going to be fatal.

Don't you agree, Bob?

But just the first time.

Yeah.

He can go.

He can discuss it.

And I said, well, we're discussing it.

And he comes back and goes over to Paris again for another meeting.

We can swing.

And Frank is full of ostrich revealage.

What's fatal is if he goes to the second time.

But he can't go if I don't have him.

Or if we have to stop bombing.

There's just not going to be enough.

Couldn't agree more.

Anything else of interest in your shop today?

No, sir.

These are the key points.

The situation on the ground in South Vietnam is good.

How many catchers do you have left?

Two.

Well, I'll tell you about the things I told you yesterday, Al.

I thought it was a sort of a high risk thing to do.

It was certainly good for me.

When I think what the goddamn things I've gone through here on the top of decisions, I have no support.

But opposition or silence from these areas, the so-called elections, of course from the media.

I'm not referring to publishing.

Of course, they never speak up.

There is media.

the university community.

I never mentioned them, this was probably the religious groups.

I mean, they've been out squealing and so forth.

And the so-called business elite.

Those parts never speak up.

The only support we've had are from labor union leaders, certain kinds of ethnics, farmers, professional military organizations.

A few main street type businessmen.

And interestingly enough, people like P.O.W.

Wise.

And to walk into a group like that, wise, banished, and arrested.

Look at those poor goddamn people.

These other assholes don't have any stake here in this war.

Their kids are all fucking around in Canada.

There are.

Picking the business guys.

Now, what about these people?

These people have got their husbands or sons in these damn jails.

The prisons in Vietnam, four, five, two, three years.

And all they have to say is, bug out.

You know that?

And they don't say that much.

Now, who the hell's got the character in this country?

Who's got it?

Listen, I'll tell you why.

It makes me ashamed of the people I come from.

But I mean it.

I'm from that group.

Lawyers, business people, so-called superior educations.

Boy, they aren't fit to do it anymore.

Not fit to do it.

Do you know the kind of people I mentioned?

Ben?

Not when there's any crunch.

When they stand up, that's when they see everything.

And I can also say, and I can add to that, the bureaucracy in our own government, including Kevin and people who come from that same elite, have no guts.

That's finished.

It's been a remarkable experience to watch this for the last, you know, year and a day.

I remember that our decision.

And, boy, models made.

Just to mention a few times.

On November 3rd, they came around.

And they saw, after they saw that, what had happened.

Which is, when you're making the decision, they were all out there marching around the Capitol with the bogey on them.

And here, telling me, you've got to, you've got to back off.

Back off, back off.

You're looking for what's there in other areas of property that's more random.

Yeah.

Yeah, he did.

All the networks didn't use it, but Ted Schultz ran it as the lead, because he thought his brother heard it.

And I told Secretary Sorensen, I said, now, Ron, I did that right deliberately.

It was a shot across the waters.

I don't want to mislead these people.

I said, we're going to cut their balls off after the election.

I don't even know that I got their number now.

Now, I've said this several times.

And they have never picked it up.

Now it's in the Times.

It was picked up in the United

The running story on all the running stuff has made the point, both have, good, not to believe.

But you know, it's really not.

There are exceptions in the business community.

You've got the elite type like McCloy's and those jackasses, and you've got a Don Handel who's a bomb.

But what is Don Handel?

You see?

You know what he started at?

Praxis.

Some good humors.

of McCartney.

Hell, he's a hard head.

He's got a lousy education.

We've got to deal with the education of England as history's best example.

And some of the White House around here.

But generally speaking, the tragedy of all this gets back to the educational system in this country.

It has made America the American upper class now.

Has it become like the British upper class?

Well, much worse, I should say, like the French upper class was before World War II.

Decadent, incestuous, homosexual.

Well, this is where these guys started.

Last night was the premiere here in Washington of this new movie, Young Winston, which is the story of Winston Churchill's early days.

And it's quite a good movie.

And the other one, which you can talk about after this,

It's a well-done fiction, but there's one moment in it, and I couldn't avoid blurting out, and I guess no press heard me, and a few people around me did.

There's a moment in the book where Sir Randolph

His father, right, resigns as Chancellor of the Exchequer.

That's right.

Sends his letter to the Prime Minister.

And then goes to the London Times that same night and hands the editor of the London Times his letter of resignation.

The editor said, no, you must not resign.

And he said, well, will you print my letter?

I already have.

The Prime Minister's already accepted it.

I have the acceptance here.

And the editor says, well, you've made a terrible mistake and all that.

I said, well, I've got to come to you because I want your support.

I'm doing the right thing and you know it.

Because he was running over heavy military stuff.

And, uh...

And he said, I want you then at least to print my letter of resignation.

And the editor said, I will not.

And he said, why won't you?

You've been critical of the government.

And the editor stands up and he says, the Times will be critical of the government when it feels the government is wrong.

The Times will never do anything to bring the government down.

Jesus Christ.

And I blurted out, without even thinking, I wish to hell we had a Times like that.

Did you realize?

I mean, they stood by a champion.

They stood by a champion.

What a little prayer to all the great press lords here.

Well, the lords, because we've got the Chicago Tribune, the Chicago Daily News, and I do little papers like Copland.

We've got a Paul Miller again.

We've got a Mark Day in Detroit.

The New York Daily News.

And the best of them all, the Orlando Sentinel.

God, that's a great newspaper.

Well, what I'm getting at is this.

They're not, I mean, do you think Henry would read any one of those papers?

No, sir.

He won't.

And he won't see anybody from those papers.

You know why?

Because they are the ones that the Georgetown people think are the better class.

There is the snobbish elite.

You know the reason, let me tell you the reason they mainly are petrified by hitting it and why they eat my guts.

Of course it was back in history.

Mainly it is this.

I'm not one of them.

And they know it.

They know it terrifies them and distresses them.

And I get along with the manias and the disseminators.

That's right.

It terrifies them.

But I can get at these veterans leaders who are a little bit inarticulate, and I can go down there and a big Mexican woman will give me a bracelet and kiss me, which is a little embarrassing, but it never was.

They couldn't face that kind of thing.

No.

I bet you agree, Bob.

Yeah.

That's true, but it climbs generally.

And that's why we're going to stay, because that's what this country is, what made this country.

The country's still strong and good and decent.

A hell of a lot of 55,000 Americans are down six foot deep.

Well, they think they're being devastating when they characterize you as having middle-class moral values and being a square and a lower middle-class land and patriotism and track.

What you hear also is that they know, from an intellectual standpoint, that most of them are not.

that are not in the league as far as background and so forth and so forth.

Why?

Because they didn't understand a dime, let's face it.

Goldwater was very smart.

McCarthy was very smart.

I mean, you know what I mean?

By being smart, they never at least demonstrated in school.

And these people also have another thing.

They judge everything in terms of I.E.Q.s, what school did he go to.

Not so much for our children and so on.

Well, if you do agree, brother, they say, well, there must be something wrong with this son of a bitch.

He went to school.

It's not like us.

Didn't fit the template.

You got that right?

Well, I swear to God, we haven't done much, but it's going to be done in the future.

When you get over there to the Army, I want you to kick my ass.

I mean, remember, the people that you're going to be head of are the good people.

I mean, sure, a lot of them are going to be, it's going to be about half black.

I have no illusions about that environment.

It's going to change.

It's all inherent.

But there are a lot of good people.

You know, you look at, I did last night a football game on television, you see.

The two great running backs for Detroit, the two great running backs for the other side, and the two great running backs for Washington instead.

They're all black.

God damn.

Very good.

The quarterbacks aren't.

Well, I suppose I need to go on the side.

I don't think that rules is that much of a problem.

No, we have to do this.

We have to do anything for this guy.

Let me say this.

He hasn't settled now.

The most important thing I said was at the end of the conversation with Abrams.

This man does not cooperate.

He's not reasonable with us now.

He has seriously eroded

to support the friendship he has for a man in his office.

Now that's what he's going to see.

And he ain't got any other choice.

And by that I mean that after this election, he either takes or he's out.

Are you okay with that?

You agree?

We cannot just go along to win his war.

Do you agree?

No, this is... Our differences are getting to crystallize and it's unfortunate he can't achieve his without us.

I only wish for some way to come back and we can say we're gonna delay the lack of the election because of the electionary discussion.

I'm slightly confident that that's the way it's gonna come out.

Yeah, I want that said, but I want that to be public.

I mean, I want it to be delayed, but I'd like it for somebody to say, well, we'll put it out at some point.

So the reason we do this is that we just cannot negotiate this election answer.

We're gonna start to plan the incident election.

or run it right through and say the election means nothing.

We're just going to keep going.

So that no one can say that this influence the talks.

And that's the position we've taken thus far, and I think it's right.

I know Henry's concerned, too.

I mean, it's understandable.

He's come this long way.

He's fought this battle.

He's done a brilliant job in China and Russia, and he's all over the rest of it.

And he's panting to put this third star on his crown.

And we wanted to go there, but you can't pay the price or risk it, but it ain't like that.

We'll get the third star.

But, of course, Henry knows that it's not after the election.

This is his result, so anybody could do that.

Not really.

First, we had to win the election.

Anyway, do you think Henry's got the word?

Yes, sir.

What are you going to say?

I think we've got it and we've got to take our time and do it right.

If we get it before, that's fine.

If we get it after, that's fine too.

We just don't have .

I'm not going to be able to .

Yes, sir, I know.

So just don't bother me with it.

I have a bill.

If I need a bill, I'll say, look, you've worked on the water veto, the speech on the water bill, and also the social security veto.

You just got it.

And when Congress gets out of here, let's just postpone it.

All right.

Good.

You know, I'm so glad I had Abrams here yesterday.

I wanted to see him anyway.

But it was the day this morning.

It was I who gave him the paper this morning with Abrams.

And I had a break.

I had a break.

And I remember this reception last night, and everybody was so pleased because you had had him in the... Is that right?

Yes.

Great.

It looks good, too.

I mean, it's a thing.

It takes a command, and it takes off.

It went out.

Yeah.

It's not too worried.

Is that it?

Yeah.

Good.

Okay.

Good.

I don't know how much he's told you, but he made a point of spending quite a long time with me yesterday and waiting.

Getting up so early these days.

No, he didn't tell me anything, but I read it in the lines when they talked.

I let it on.

I was trying to find out.

But the idea is, I want you to see this for a long time.

Now, we've got a very complex analysis of this whole thing on the basis of Henry's enormous personal complexity.

And it boils down to, he shared here with you, he has a stronger, more stronger argument than you do.

what you have at work here, a very strong internal motivation, compulsive, that has nothing to do with the parties in the case.

And that there is a super fundamental insecurity there.

And to make notes of this with the private or private .

The thing is that Henry does want to make peace.

He does feel it has to be done before the election.

And that's the one thing that worries Alan.

And that we're making sure he knows what happened.

That girl was the only one.

Which was good.

Well, interestingly enough, and it's an indication of the thing, because I raised this with Al, and he jumped on it before I got started, but Henry and I had a discussion last week somewhere about the problem of replacing Al, and Henry said that he'd been giving some thought, and would it be possible, and would I object, if he considered the possibility of moving Scowcroft into that position?

Which, incidentally, I think would be a superb idea for that grade.

But I said, I didn't mention it.

I saw a chance here.

First, it's not important.

Second, it's important.

Second, he's got brains.

So, first, he isn't quite the best man.

He's the right guy for that job.

But he is, intellectually, he's too far.

He doesn't belong in that kind of a job.

He is way ahead of you as an election.

That's right.

He is his, at least his, equal intellectual.

That's right.

And on personality, he's low-key and visceral and solid enough that I think he can take all the shit, which is very important.

I got into quite a long talk with Henry that led into about that.

And Al said afterward, he said, you have no idea the change, instant change in Henry's attitude toward me and toward all of doing this stuff that that talk had.

And I said, obviously not because he gave a shit about Scopop, but only because implicitly in that talk was my confirmation to him that he was expected to stay on after the election.

And Al said, that's exactly right.

And see Henry, he fishes for stuff like that.

He sort of fished with me about post-election stuff, and I have never

And he said, you don't need to tell me whether I'm going to stay or not.

And I said, Henry, I can't tell you whether you're going to stay.

I don't know whether I'm going to stay.

And that's something that can't be and shouldn't properly be discussed until the time comes.

Excuse me, Mr. President, last name and place of call is Ralph Anderson.

Ralph Anderson, A-R-I-S-O-N. You might have been having that, sir.

Hello.

Good morning.

I tried to reach yesterday only to tell you that the three weeks going before the election, I so much appreciate all your very fine comments you've made through the nursing homes for the President's Committee and so forth.

We hope that we just do a good job and do a better job for those people who are in those homes.

Right.

Well, I have a really deep feeling in my heart about all these problems, because I've seen so many people get those ones, and they're terribly important.

And we're glad to have you with us.

Good luck.

Well, but what Al said, the one thing he's concerned about on this trip is that, he said, I may be wrong, I read the psychology, but in this very complex man, I think it's terribly important, and I think that's why he's resisting pushing a wire too far.

Don't give him any feeling of lack of confidence, because he'll overcompensate.

and overreact.

It's important to make our signals now be, you know, you're doing the right thing and we're with you.

It's all, he's, he's gone through the doubts and he hasn't.

And, uh, well, I didn't...

and I put on a nice

That's all right.

But that couldn't have been the right .

He needs to know that failing is not the only thing.

And I also said, whether it fails, I get this responsibility.

I don't think we were.

I said, it succeeds.

Great.

But I said, it's all right.

It's been a great .

because that'll make it into the right thing a little better, exactly.

And that's Alex later on.

Yeah.

And Alex just was asking for my help in just making sure that, not with you, but that rumbles don't develop out of here, that Henry and the issues under pressure and all that sort of thing.

And that could, I think,

Al's point is, as long as he believes he's coming, that he personally is coming on all right, regardless of how he settles this, he isn't going to be pushed to try and prove, to deliver a coup that maybe would be delivered at too great a price.

I know.

And Al's worried about that.

He's worried as you...

I don't know about that, but if we get the settlement two weeks before the election, how will it be?

Well, I would say they've got to keep it moving together for two weeks.

Because they've got...

I have a personal view of this.

I know everybody's going to say it's going to be great and everything, and I think it would.

It would.

We all know that.

But Bob, that you don't need it.

Well, we've got to do the right thing.

And also, while it would be good, the risks are enormous.

That's right.

Just enormous.

We talk about high-risk things and going over and speaking to a few people that have lives, but with Christ, that's nothing compared to this, is there?

And that's why you don't push it to the rest.

That's really the point.

Al comes back, he says there's a possibility of it all falling into place, a good settlement, agreement by two, and being able to put it together.

If we get that, we should move ahead with it.

Because if we get that, it will stick together.

And all those people in Abrams Field, which I went in directly with Abrams, I said, let's go get the election.

I said, do you think this is a good settlement?

Abrams said, yes, they ought to take it.

I said, all right, if you feel that in good conscience, I want you to go there as an advocate, not as an insurer.

I put the problem at the end of the tunnel and stick high and hit it.

Anyway, it's that.

Well, Hague still is afraid of the bloodbath, I think.

I don't think it will.

The other thing I have been concerned about, and I'll put pretty much to rest, the thing that's bothered me in this is that if Henry goes to Saigon,

two doesn't go along then our pattern our agreement our understanding is it doesn't now is two doesn't then henry comes home but the north vietnamese then probably anticipated henry coming to hanoi have been canceled rebuffed and they go public then we're monsters to them they go public alice's point is on that if they if that's what they do then it's because they don't really want this settlement anyway

And they'll blow it, they'll use that as an excuse to blow it.

If they blow it on that excuse, then the odds are pretty good that they would have really screwed us after the settlement anyhow.

Well, one of the things I put in on that, I said, the greatest danger is jewels.

I said, that's not what we heard very bad.

I said on that point, I said, I think you can obfuscate it so much in your own readings that it could wash out some issues.

I really think that's true.

Let them go public.

And then Henry goes public and says, oh, they did this and that and this and all this.

Just say it.

Yeah.

So I think we've got the only bad position we can end up in that I see on this, other than the whole Biden thing, I think over is the main thing, saying, you know, they didn't negotiate.

We're black hell.

But right after this election, we're going to settle this war.

That's going to be over.

We're not going to have to act like a goddamn fool here in Arkansas, Vietnamese, and we carried them long enough.

They are not going to shape up and run this thing that they can't run it now.

They're never going to be able to.

That's Avery's point.

He said we're...

He said, there's just come a time when you just can't stand any longer.

He says, in Europe, we have the same civilization.

And it's even hard there.

Here, we're different people.

And it's very hard for us to be there all this time.

Even the smaller numbers, we're there.

And he said, we should get out and let them have their own cool.

They've got to do it sometime.

And they've got to learn.

And it's just good for America not to be there.

And he is dead right.

Well, this is the only shape that I can think of that what we really don't need now is to have Rogers come in with a manifesto of about 30 or 40 points that the State Department people don't like this and that about the settlement.

because because and i'm not sure that he would except that the pattern has been that way and that if they do in order to get saved in the act that would really send him to any place

See?

And also the state should do this.

The state should not do this.

Let me ask, I asked David, he said that they're thinking about not doing the radio this week.

No.

The general feeling now is that there's a real question of the value of the tax speech.

And Sapphire raised it.

He's writing it.

And he's finished it.

And he said to Erdogan,

when he turned it over.

For God's sake, give one more thought to this because it's done and it's good.

But we don't need it.

And why the hell go out and give a big tax bonanza to old folks, which is so patently political, when it doesn't do any good?

The tax reform issue was a big issue three weeks ago or a month ago.

Nobody's talking about tax reform today.

It's gone.

It's like this whole cycle of issues.

They haven't taken anything and sustained it.

And it's too late now for them to build it back into an issue.

So, Bill's point is, I've done the speeches, I like it, but I think it's wrong to give.

And John, I think, John's taking probably that view.

Then the thought would be, if we don't do that, to move the paternalism speech to Saturday and skip the speech on Thursday, you don't really need it.

And I can go to Camp David on my own Thursday afternoon.

I've got to set now to do the radio speech on Thursday.

So you go to Camp David Thursday and give the speech.

No, I've got to go Thursday.

I can go to Thursday without going to speech Thursday.

I can do the Sapphire.

It's no change one way or the other.

Do the Sapphire.

Do the paternalism one.

That's Sapphire.

Right.

Now, we have .

Yeah, that's a special interest .

We may get run into a snag on this revenue-sharing thing that we gotta figure out what to do, because Boggs, you know, may very well end up being... Do they find a body?

No.

But if they find him today, they may... That would be hit about right with, you know, sodium.

That's...

I'll just change it to Tuesday.

Good thing.

So we know that we... Yeah.

Do it next week.

Tuesday.

I don't know.

Postpone it.

Yeah.

Fine.

We can do this the next week.

And, uh...

Back, it was Thursday next week.

I don't know if next week.

Yeah.

I remember the news boys, that was in the days when they'd walk through the residential section.

We lived in Beverly Hills and they came down the street shouting, extra, extra, you know, Will Rogers, plane crash.

My feeling about the tax, it just, I had this hunch, that's why I raised it earlier, that why raise that kind of an issue when you're not getting fired by it?

And I just don't think it's worth it.

Now, the one thing we've got to find, I'll speak to Colson about it, we've got to find the device to reinforce them and restate our early survey.

I don't care.

Let him write several letters of money.

And it bothers her with the interest.

That's apparently what they're talking about.

There's another one I have to go to.

I know we're going to have to go to that.

I think what I'd do is go to a Mars or a sphere and then they will.

They've got an interesting maneuver in the Congress that they think maybe they can pull off, which is to, as the conference reports come in, the House will act on them and complete their work on each of the conference reports, which would be to, you know, finish their business, including the continuing resolution, and then move to adjourn signing guy.

And then we get our members out of town.

And that solves your water bill, because Bill thinks he can get that done in the afternoon.

Right, because without our members, they don't think the Democrats can get it for them.

They have to get virtually all of theirs.

See, it's only six to half.

Yeah, but they've got a tough time.

We can get everybody out.

They've got so many out already.

that they fail a quorum and they've got the motion and then the sentence up against the table and they've got a real problem with the deal.

Senator, do we have a roll?

I think they look bad.

I do too.

They're all botched up at the end.

and sit in for two years, and we were trying to do it all in two days.

I'm talking to Mayor Collins of Boston.

He has never accepted it at all.

This view was, again, it was the high risk thing.

You're walking right into the super anti-demonstration that serves no purpose.

Okay, I think Pat Nixon's going to go.

Well, that's pretty good.

Another thing I would like for you to get to work on in the long range project

And so that was on their end with the sheriff.

He also suggested that we roll the mask because it's $100,000 and so forth.

And I want Collins' advice.

But again, when I spoke up about that, and I wanted, he said the city manager to roll the mask and so forth.

Be sure they're included in the list of guests and so forth and so on, see?

We've been invited to go to Philadelphia.

I think Pat's right there.

That's good.

I'll call him.

of course, he bitches, I think, sometimes.

And Billy may have just said, I didn't see much of him, but George may have just said, why is he?

Why is he?

Do you know what it is?

We've done a lot for George Lee.

We've offered him every goddamn thing, ambassador, and everything.

Oh, yeah.

We've done everything we could possibly be expected to for Jim.

You know, offered him things.

You know what I think?

I think he knows he's got a very good problem.

We put him on the UN thing.

He turned all of it down.

I really don't think there is any problem with Billy.

We've got an awfully good back and forth.

He called out the UN.

That's all the states he was going to go to.

That's right.

He's laid it out on the lines.

He is.

He's always coming on.

He does want always to be sure you go down to work.

That's right.

Oh, yes.

And he has to do that.

He has to follow their agency and all that.

I put a lot of my business report every day.

Well, I do get a report.

I know what Billy's doing.

The main thing is they have to know that it does get in.

People have got to use a lot of license around here and say, yes, the president was pleased.

It's all a column.

Well, I did that.

He'll call in, you know, with little suggestions.

Somebody ought to give a call to her to get something covered or... We were talking about what a great impression it made of the... At the waters, yeah.

And there was a speechwriter that they thought up that line that she used.

Did they?

She used the line very well.

She sure did.

Great line.

And there's great abilities in that.

Yep.

In a totally un-actuously way, at least I was actually thinking about the people that are saying it's like it's impressive to get out and talk about something.

Eight minutes of that people talking thing.

On that issue,

is working a week's campaign swing.

That was one, too, that you got right.

Because you answered, you know what I mean, I'm talking to the guy.

I met my wife for dinner last night before the TV, so she didn't see the TV.

She only heard the radio.

And she was, she came in and she said,

That was just marvelous what the president did today.

And I said, what do you mean?

If you haven't seen the television, she said it's been on the radio all afternoon.

And she said he was so strong and so firm.

You know, she had all these characteristics.

And it comes through.

Radio tells a hell of a story.

And these goddamn reporters had to report this one.

And the TV had, you know, the ladies with the tears in their eyes and the tube networks mentioned that fact.

The guys that saw this on TV last night, they were in two and a half minutes.

We got a longer spot than we always ever get on television.

And Billy mentioned, he said, he and his wife almost threw a rug under their shoes at the television.

The television ran the Atlanta story in third and fourth place.

I didn't realize they run it that low.

He said, huh?

Yeah.

He said, a huge crowd ran it third and fourth place on television.

Yeah, but the point still got there.

But he said, this was in first place.

He said it was something.

But this one was first place on every network the lead started in.

The beauty of this, not only was the tone and the attitude and all just exactly what you want, not only did you get a tremendous reception in a non-political, non-partisan kind of a with no signs and no balloons and none of that, but you made two of the strongest issue points

that you can make, which is you're not going to cop out Vietnam, and you're not going to grant amnesty to the...

Deserves.

...deserves.

And both of those points are, you're diametrically opposed to McGovern.

That's right.

And you're supported by the vast majority of the American people.

And McGovern made that last week.

That's another point to score.

And McGovern made that just last week.

And McGovern was just on that way.

And he's given up Vietnam again.

Has he?

Yeah, he's spending his whole time now on corruption.

That ain't gonna fly.

And disruption, sabotage, you know, this campaign sabotage thing.

Poor guy.

Last night, he was at a union thing in Los Angeles yesterday afternoon.

The fire marshal heard about it, starts moving the TV cameras out.

McGovern blew.

He lost his cool.

And he shouted at the press people to start paying, you know, let's show a little maturity in the press corps.

Pay attention to me and what I'm saying, not to what's going on over there.

I mean, I'd do all five years of campaigning if I'd have done something like that, you know.

Look at the contact magazine.

We've been through, you know, the real act.

He's not had a real act like that.

You realize that?

He hasn't had one.

Yeah.

He doesn't have people trying to shut him down.

What the hell is he going to do then?

They shouldn't have.

That avoids the...

He couldn't have handled that Liberty Island thing, I don't think.

If we were close, I'd put some hecklers on him.

We don't, there's no point in there doing that.

Because he's going to blow his body back.

Well, if it gets rough, I would.

Yeah.

No, except that he's pretty well far from that by accusing us of it so much today.

Yeah.

I hope he doesn't get heckled, because me heckling, I think, will hurt us more than him.

Well, we put out the orders that it's not to be, and we're trying to really make my life right.

Certainly the judgment regarding willingness was good in another sense, even worse than post-judgment.

It's also nice to play this story first and the other story first down the line.

Right?

Yeah.

On the other side of the way, yeah.

Let's go on.

Press coverage of these labor leaders.

Fine.

Is it separate press coverage?

Sure.

Writing pool coverage only.

Ron's recommending full press coverage.

Sure.

Okay.

Come on back.

I don't want to go over there.