Conversation 811-003

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Oh, Eric, hi.

I had lunch with Arnold, the fourth grader, who I love.

I heard about him.

He's a great admirer of yours.

Maybe I did meet him.

That's what you look like, sir.

Yeah, Paul.

That's it, I'm sure.

No, I don't like you.

And you know, he's the only hardliner on the newsroom.

I know.

Well, he wrote that marvelous speech about that asshole from Harvard.

He seems to have disappeared from sight.

Now, before he said, he said, this is a tremendous victory you people have achieved.

He said, it is certain that the North Koreans will withdraw most of their army into the North.

They need it to rebuild it.

They need it to reestablish control.

They can't take it anymore.

And he told me, he then went to Saigon.

He said, that's your biggest problem.

That's what's going to blow.

And he said he didn't think Bunker could handle it.

He needed a tougher guy there.

It won't blow.

But I think that Saigon won't blow because we're going to put it right to it.

I think on next Wednesday we should deliver a letter to Van Van Damme.

He should not have made that statement today.

Inexcusable.

Because he should have said, I have confidence in the president about that.

He could attack North Vietnam, but he started with attacking me.

That's right.

And I don't know if that's a mockery of us.

Maybe he's a cynic.

Well, what Funker does is when we send him a cable, he puts it into a memo and hands it to...

It took two, but that just makes him a messenger poet.

But boys of our grade said it's a good Greek.

He said it's unbelievable.

He said the Newsweek editorial staff is wiped out.

He said they don't know what to say.

And he's a high-class person.

It's definitely easier there, too.

There's a fantastically good article in the news summary today by a man I've never seen before.

It's from the Philadelphia Post.

Did you happen to see him on Fourth Day?

Very, very positive.

I want you to be sure to see it, that he's probably a man you've never met.

Maybe some bright young guy that you really want to get with us.

And I also know a big candidate that sent me in, your old friend Hamilton, Deshaun Strong's epilogue.

That is great, Mr. President.

Did you read it?

Yeah.

I marked it for you.

I said after the election, I want you right to come on.

Well, I thought...

I just thought you... Well, I was going...

I had already written a memo to you when you retired.

Yeah.

I was not recommending it for the... That's a great reason.

And I'm not holding back.

I thought it was great.

Why do you think so?

Because you're part of that liberal establishment that

He's not going to get any better than we got.

Well, he's trying.

He's trying.

I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Well, Charles, with regard to your personal regard to the project, I'm deeply desperate.

How is he?

How does he feel physically?

How is his spirit?

It's great.

He is the balancing force.

You have to know that he was a university professor, one of your sons.

And this was his fourth grade.

Social, sociality, economics, Marxism.

That's his background.

And he has the conviction we cannot lose.

We can move it, but we can't let them say we've played it right.

One of the great things that they must have wanted, of course, is the provocation of the big brother in, the President, not to give them an excuse to jump in or make it necessary for them to do so.

This is a very important point.

Even the people in government, I'm not talking the central committee, but the people in government,

They are often seen because of something that was said or something permitted.

I'm letting them share with my trip, because of my comparison, that they may have some request or a problem with the crew.

I'm just going to wait for this time to find out.

They won't do it.

We did a little gesture.

Bill Rogers went by the day of it.

It was a feast day.

outside.

But we did, for the reasons that you know, that we checked and found from our internal sources that it would be embarrassing to them.

I just wanted to make sure that Henry and I talked about it.

I actually thought he had a lot more to go.

But I thought it would have put him in the office.

I don't want to hear this.

It is a strong speculation that the bar in 1966...

and prevented some 30 American bishops from going there for the night.

It was none of orders, or so it was.

Because I had actually not agreed to go until I had pre-assurances that there would be none of this complication.

And I happened to find out.

Would you live in Prague?

Actually, no.

Or Prague?

Or Poland.

I'm there.

I should fix some travel license either way.

Oh yeah, that's right.

And I know that it wasn't much, perhaps 10 days, two weeks before my index was up.

There wasn't a counselor.

Then we sent all the people who were coming.

So that, until that time, it was .

I'll let you in on this without knowing anything.

I can imagine that it must have been even almost emotional, the way that they welcomed you, though, the people there, just saying that you did this.

It must have been, that's what it was.

There's me when I put it forward.

I've always kind of said, well, the mania was, it's different.

You don't have this, they don't know what it means.

Well, I don't focus.

But, you know, having to get out of the car and playing that reed, that's the only time they see it.

It's just unbelievable.

They have a vision of spiritual and national equality as opposed to Romanians.

They have developed, in these days, a legal weapon.

Holes have them, so they don't have anything.

He kept knocking that out of office by political anecdotes.

Give us a couple of those.

It's a piece of shit.

Well, one of them, inside Beeman, retired from Southwest, talking with a man who was put on the side.

He had been served immolated.

They got the time to promote some things, you know, to control religious activity.

He talked to the Cardinal, the Cardinal.

Look, your request is entirely unreasonable.

We cannot agree.

We do not.

You can talk now.

You can talk ten years from now.

You can talk a hundred years from now.

The answer will have to be no.

This fellow got really excited.

And he reached in, because he was on the spot himself.

He had to turn himself on to him.

He reached in with a pen and paper, a pen on his side.

The pen says, Mickey, he says,

So let's stop.

I'll get you a nice book.

The first is this.

When a man reaches a point in his job where he has to take a tranquilizer, he's lost.

He's lost.

And they, I heard a nice little story.

It shows the kind of the, almost the recklessness of the poem.

It's a narrative.

It shows the spirit they had, you know, the auditorium thing.

Uh, the, uh, safe zone.

You know, for the incentive, you know, for the big extension.

So I told them, you know, we have to even fire.

We need to have a common, you know, size that won't be criticizing us.

So he called me with that thing in his pocket.

We're going to declare war on you, because we need it.

So, the other end of the phone said, try and talk to your local defense and so on.

Here's some papers for tomorrow.

And this is from a VL defense.

I said, oh, he didn't want to hear it.

Very fair defense.

He just wanted to be careful around you.

I'll get you up.

So he called me.

So I would say, then we'll get together completely.

So he puts a call at the phone.

So I said, this is Sergeant Muschietti.

Sergeant, we've been informed that the workers are in responsible control of the China Center.

Okay.

How?

When?

By the way, how many are there?

Six hundred and fifty.

Oh, listen.

We'll invite you, but you'll have to arrange for your own parents.

We've only got rooms that are six hundred and fifty.

This is the way things should be.

They're precious to me.

They met me with a motorcycle.

I know that my friend did something because he started to think he had his own anticipation.

I've got to say, there's some labors left to take, but it's not very cute, though.

There must have been a foreign city.

I have a beautiful speech, you know, among others.

So I picked her up and asked her to call me.

Yes.

And this was all the folks.

So I asked her, and...

but there was a given idea

And the pastor and some people were almost actually just waiting on me to have the schedule to stop.

But coming back, a town of 7,000, they had about 5,000 people out in the church, around the church on the streets.

We hadn't stopped anything.

But in less than two hours, some people were in the chorus, or they were sitting on the power cable in the church.

In fact, they need the church to keep things somewhat under control.

This is where Colonel Mischinski has this thing.

And he walks a little bit of a tightrope because sometimes he is considered as being...

Two races.

And yet, on the other side, some people think that he doesn't really count.

In 1956, the British counterfeited an argument by Cardinal Wyszynski.

Cardinal Wyszynski said, Cardinal Wyszynski is of the staff model survey.

Cardinal Wyszynski is of the staff calendar survey.

It's very true, I sat with Carmen on Sunday, 1948, the year that he was arrested.

I don't think he could ever appreciate the type of work.

I think that's a very critical question, and critical in terms of our future policy.

As you know now, we are playing a game of opening up the polls quite a bit.

We're being, you know, in the trade field and others, we haven't done much for the match, but we've done quite a bit actually, but we've done more than has been done.

And our relationships are

but arm's length, too, in a sense.

The question that is raised, there are, of course, the Polish groups in this country who understand it, and I understand it very, very much.

It's true of the Polish groups, and it's true of the Ukrainians, and it's true of Russians and everybody else.

They have nothing to do with these assassins and tyrannical people.

On the other hand, the problem that I see with it, and I probably know personally this country this far, because I've seen the communists, what it does to people, the horror of the great society that it proposes upon, despises.

The problem is that I see the future, and I see those kids over there.

I see the militias, which we'll talk about in a moment.

And I feel that if the choices just have nothing to do with them and no communication, that is unacceptable.

I think there are great risks in having something to do with the government.

But I don't believe that if, for example, what we call liberation,

were a positive, were a possible alternative, they might look at it differently.

But with the Russians sitting there, with the Russian divisions there, it can't happen.

That's the problem.

In other words, this is what happened.

You can't realistically say, the Polish people, if we just keep breezing out there, they'll overthrow these desks.

It may happen again, but it's going to happen 25 years.

Now, that's the rationale for what we're doing at the present time.

What we should be looking after.

Are we doing the right thing?

Should we pull back a bit?

And first, there are people that you can talk to that you've been working with.

And there are some people who take this debt and say, I'm going to retire and everything else.

But what can you do?

If you're a world peace, you might exclude a major section of the people of the world.

There's no way you can do this, because they're on the outside, and they're going to be always a source of irritation.

With Poland, the high percentage, the maximum percentage of their trade is in the east, and this is the element of control.

The more they can swing westward,

The more independent, even the Communist Party is full of liberty from the Communist Party in Russia.

Now, they're not less communist.

They're not less communist, but you have to realize that they're a different type.

They're a different type, and yet, at least in this extent, they haven't blindly forced the co-opcy of the farms, I think, more than three-fourths of them.

land about privately owned property.

And they're not padding the disasters and the crops that Ukraine has had, except because there is this private legal thing.

And there's no way of priority in terms of time.

If it's raining, you can't work.

If the sun is shining, you'll work for any number of hours.

So they have been making some kind of concessions

anytime they go too far, it's the Russian companies that pull them in back.

So, I don't think it's a one-way street either here.

I think there should be, we have a deficit trade now, I'm sure.

Is it possible to open up some market of some kind for us to make it a mutual?

It's unusual, and I hope to project that.

When I was talking about the Hibberwick group, and I talked about the...

It is unusual.

It's unusual.

It's unusual that those of the United States have an employee.

But I'd be very much in favor of putting them in a position, at least of some measure of independence of the criminal offense.

I seem to...

Another important thing that we messed up before is follow through with these people.

Because the time in this government has had a number of changes.

You know, the top government, the people are the people.

It's the same.

And so, you bring in the other people, you have to take the risk to make the government move.

You have to invite the risk all the way.

Well, I think that's exactly what we're doing.

It's a very disorganized trade deal.

It's not a good way at all.

And the Polish update, Gary, is from Kruku.

They desperately want to talk to us.

They desperately want to trade with us.

They desperately want to exchange with us.

They want to live with us.

They are communists, but they're a lot.

I think they're communists, but in terms of their relations.

They, let's put it very, they figure the Russians.

They don't bother us, they don't fear us.

And as a personal basis, I think my relations with Garrett, as a candidate would agree, are much better than Russian's.

You agree with that?

Is that what you thought?

Do you know their time?

I think we talked about it quite candidly.

No, we had the impression that they were deliberately using their time against the other Bureau members trying to

get as much contact with us in order to have a counterweight to the Russians.

But of course, they're conscious of the fact that the geographic reality is a potent situation.

If they can only keep the flow of information, I wouldn't like to talk to such an intense.

Now, you have to realize that this isn't a one-size-one-way street.

I didn't mention, but I think I may revert to the message that this is what I'm talking about.

They have to have access to information.

They've got to get away from the notion that they can put these people in the vacuum and feed them one lie.

They have to have confidence in the people that they can.

At the adjustment at Auschwitz, I gave a talk.

I didn't know what the reaction would be.

But I said, there's no way that you can eliminate or separate the twin commandment of love, love, doubt, and opinion.

And here you have a perfect example of how some people had eliminated the love dove, and that's the second one they repelled.

And this was transcendent.

Any lines of who or what, the wall of execution, the death blocks, they didn't know who was the Catholic priest, Jew, or Gypsy, or Hungarian, or anything else.

But they recognized this and published a new book.

And you think that that, if we are that kind of thing, that's the type of stuff that God stands for.

And that's the point that I try to make, that as a Christian, if we only have one enemy, then we are allies for every man.

Samaritan's explosive.

It's really that.

And he must also allow those who hate the person to pass it on to others.

And it's an excellent note.

It's a similar point there.

But the other thing is, I'm going to let down every two casts, whoever they are.

Because it's what it was.

It's what it was.

They won't be going home tonight.

but I don't that point out that they may not present it, but I tell you not to come in as a cousin or neighbor to separate people because they won't displace them.

Yes, they're a human animal.

Is there anyone around on this subject?

It's also a subtle way of showing that you need to set up cameras on that.

Was that all in the Auschwitz speech, the whole time?

Yes, it was in the Auschwitz speech, the whole time.

And before the ceremony, I had a very deliberate idea to place the wreath on top of one, and then I went over to the plaques that they had.

Excuse me, excuse me, I placed the wreath there.

And the last night...

The last night, I had the...

It is a gesture to stop at a Jesuit church where a small number, but a large number of holy people.

It's never been documented, nobody says that 15 Jesuits are allowed to fully kill, and it is believed that at least some of the others were, the Jews were being hit by the Jesuits.

So they threw the rope and just

Then he asked him for a fire.

Unbelievable, unbelievable.

It was one of the just plain, superseded scriptures.

and he is now making claims that all of the little people that were presently in the summer, all of this is going to come.

But he's made it through alive.

But he is still alive.

He's still alive.

And he's precious to live inside.

It is a story of life.

So I just start there and then I move on.

Yeah.

where they hold the wall, where they shot it all down.

No, this was the, I was in Warsaw.

But the place that I was to get, not this time, my previous year to go, there is a wall in Warsaw where it's definitely the, in that case, the Polish federal economy, you see, where there was a slaughter of Jews.

They lined them all up and shot them.

It's like in Germany, too.

Well, they had, I actually have it in this book I read where Peter Kroll, the area, and I don't know whether I had another view, but this wasn't one.

And for three years they held an important small bag, a bag of juice.

Of course, they were big signers for three years.

And the penalty, the penalty was that, you know, the big signs all over the place, you know.

aiding, sheltering, feeding, clothing, even selling food to the Jews.

And then they'd all show up, and people would be shot apart, shot to pieces, and that was it.

But they, their process of rebuilding is amazing.

I talked to the director of the seminary, an interesting man,

young boys, and uh, they had some problems also.

He said, you know, because we've had some problems, we've had problems, we've had, we've been in trouble.

So they think this is a part of life.

And they look at time, it's interesting enough that they do it.

And they think, uh, that we've cracked the state, and the violence, and the sorrow, and the sorrow.

And the mass demonstration, they, they, oh shit, turn up.

It was estimated variously, but through an official leak, the police had counted over 400,000 points for being, I don't know, far right back on the fly.

It was kind of a gate, and it was embarrassing to be supposed to have those people.

Is there any trouble recruiting people for the priesthood now for the seminary?

Their trouble is getting permission to expand the seminaries to accommodate, but they have to turn them away.

This, this is... And destroying the seminary?

Well, there is the death of faith that is unimaginable.

People with all the hardships that they have, and you walk the streets here and you see people kind of bruised and buried.

It was a very, very satisfying type of an experience.

Of course, it was all pretty amazing to turn us over, wasn't it, all the way down to that new place in Stuttgart.

And so I'm going to call that how I used to go to this place.

The old town.

But you know, it was more of a search for the people than an exception.

People would sing like this, you know, just... Well, I've said to...

I thought it would be interesting to go on this subject, but it would take a long time.

I think you should go over it.

But we have to think about what the agreement is going to happen and what the situation is, what the roadblocks are.

The most important thing is the substance of the agreement, which is very important.

But perhaps to explain the substance of the agreement, I ought to explain the Communist position that we started in front of the talks in July.

Because that's the way it's been measured.

What has been achieved in July 19, the county has made the following demands.

You will have to resign.

The army and police will have to be disbanded.

That's before negotiations started as the entrance prize in the negotiations.

American economic and military aid will have to stop.

The administration will have to stop.

And all the people will have to stop.

All the country's prisoners will have to be, all the time in the campus, 40,000 will have to be released.

40,000 will be released.

So this government with Adonis, the president, Adonis, Adonis, with 40,000 people coming around and losing the countryside.

would then negotiate with it, with it being calm, and send out a coalition government which would replace it.

That was there on?

That was there July 19, sir.

Now, we went through endless negotiations with this state, and we ended the offer by specifying different compositions for the coalition government.

And the president always made two principles.

One, our plan was the president's main speech, which is to say, cease fire, delete the prisoners and withdraw, and we will not impose any political future on the Vietnamese.

I won't go into all the maneuvering that went on, because essentially what we, our strategy on the president's instruction was always

Because we always, why can't we have a worry that they will go public?

And that the government will then run through the country saying, we have to keep the pizza in town.

So, we always make hard proposals.

This confused the issues.

I didn't give them what they wanted.

Well, this process went on through September.

They didn't accept the president's many proposals.

That is to say, government and state houses, unlimited, unwritten, virtual, unrestricted economic aid, military aid, in the form of replacements for existing equipment, of unrestricted, existing equipment.

You have to remember, it's an amount of 1.1 million.

And in effect, that means the pipeline is,

is open to, I guess, throw in something that is not, we haven't said what it will be called, but we know that our relations with the Russians and the Chinese are such that we can restrain them, in terms of how the North thinks about it.

But that's part of the game.

We can't talk about those.

The Russians have to deny it.

The Chinese have to deny it.

But at least have a talk with the Chinese.

I'm using a private channel.

And, uh, we had to bring it off the record here, right?

We had it.

We had it in the letter.

We got it in the letter.

Yeah.

So we got an article.

We got the style.

Right?

We had Christmas Day.

And they had, they had Bolivia Christmas.

they have proposed a coalition government which will replace the existing one.

We have always proposed an electoral commission, which all parties have represented.

Now, what we've done is we've called that electoral commission the National Council of Government Association, which is appointed equally by both sides.

It organizes and supervises elections, which, however, have first to be agreed to by June,

And it operates on the principle of unanimity, so that Cuba has a complete veto, first, over the elections that may be held, and second, over the composition, over the actions of that council.

So it's an absolutely fake, it's a fake saving maneuver, which has no power.

And the only people who call it coalition government now are liberal democrats, who are so committed, not even the North Vietnamese,

The North Vietnamese Prime Minister gave an interview to an un-deportee and said, all we have done in the political field is un-personality.

And this is an electoral commission.

It isn't anything else.

Now, in addition, they have agreed to withdraw from Laos and Cambodia.

And agreed to cease fire also in Laos and Cambodia.

who is actually as close to Santa as they could have come.

I gave you a little example of that from hopefully the first source of bleeding, one of the cleverest rituals in the world.

Sitting in this chair about four days ago was a son of a woman, a mouse, who was a very clever foal.

He has to be clever to be alive.

And he looked at this agreement.

And, uh, so I said, well, it's true.

It's very real.

I mean, it's true.

I said, tell me honestly, what do you think?

He speaks French, and all the men in the French show are like this.

We go, it's a capitulation.

He said, don't give them too much aid.

He said, because he's made that interesting comment.

He said, don't give them too much aid, just enough.

But getting back to this, we will hear the coalition talk from then.

You will hear it in other respects.

Some of the indebtedness of the VC will stay in the territory that they occupy.

On the other hand, they occupy nothing of very great significance at the moment.

And I think Jews are a wrap.

That's not quite nobody's business.

Now you see, the population are under government control.

And we are having troubles with Jews for these reasons.

One, you want the border.

No, sir.

No matter how good the terms, this is good for MS-200 American B-52s and 600 F-4s and 25,000 residual force.

And you see, cutting the available core, for example, we're talking quite candidly, is terribly difficult.

Because then he's got to do it by himself.

But here he is with a naked man army, with an air force as good as or superior to the North, at least in numbers it's superior, with a Navy in the North, that's the only Navy to speak of, and the support of the United States of America economically and militarily.

And I'm honest, it would be very, very significant.

The South Vietnamese Air Force is not just large in numbers, it's in quality.

The South Vietnamese can decimate the North.

Which we'll believe they won't do.

The other thing, though, is that the problem that he has, that his neighbor is putting into the system, we're doing a lot of things.

We can only tell you the professional.

But nevertheless, the situation is that

Because Abrams, my son, Abrams is a hardliner.

He's bought this back.

He says it has to be done.

He's a good son.

He said, they can't.

They reason they don't want to go today.

They don't want to still leave.

But he said, we cannot stay forever.

And we cannot stay much longer than Abrams went through this time.

He said, you know, in Europe, we didn't have any trucks.

But, and of course we know that there are real problems, but he said, here, we are different people.

And it's going to be increasingly difficult for us to stay clear of the problem, which is to get out of Congress.

He said, now, we have had Vietnamization, and the South Vietnamese should be stronger now to paddle their own canoe.

they've got the vote he says you've made the right kind of a deal so that's that's really what you get down to this is like the others is the other way in the bloodhound of course which we have thought about uh we expect to win the election after the election we just continue the war for a couple

to integrate the Americans, that two, would continue to kill the South Vietnamese, kill the South Vietnamese, would continue to kill the PCs and the North Vietnamese.

But it would go on and on.

It would continue to be in our relations with Russia, in our relations with China.

And in the end, would the deal be much better?

Maybe in this respect, maybe two would then feel that he had so decimated the enemy,

that they were talking about.

The North Vietnamese have shown amazing resiliency coming back.

On the other side of this coin is this.

You know, I often use that quote that a contract is only as good as the will of the parties to keep it.

You as a cantilever agree.

The real key to this situation is North Vietnam's intent.

We're getting that over with.

Suppose they withdraw some portions.

Suppose that we make this kind of appeal.

Suppose they sign this piece of paper.

If they decide within a couple, three months, they're going to start moving back to Cambodia and Maos and step up their infiltration in the south, they'll bust it.

But on the other hand, if they decide that they need a pause,

in the tradition of Mao Zedong.

And it was two steps forward, one step back, which we think now is the case.

And all the evidence points that they're dirty men, the Manchurian, the Mao Zedong.

They've been treated in the South.

They're bled white.

They need a bonus.

And they also need the American economic assistance.

And so we will have an enormous letter there

We also have to bear in mind, again, this is the part you cannot talk about with the Chinese and Russians, neither of which, for reasons of their own, want this to be resolved.

The Chinese and the Russians can never get caught saying that they would like us out of Vietnam, not because they want to take it over.

But because they want to quit competing, it's a drag on each of them.

The Russians don't want anything to do with it.

But each of them is a drag on the other.

Well, but also, but Henry also, I think both of them, the Russians don't like the cost of the damn war.

It costs them.

Huh?

That would be another vital fact.

Sure.

It's costing them a lot.

It's costing us.

There's a lot of other factors, too.

For example, knowing that if the dream comes true, it will be in a political context.

He's trying to posture himself as trying to be an American too.

So he's now going to go through a few weeks of really finding that sort of track.

But when you read speeches he's made, what he's trying to make himself now is a meeting of these nationalists rather than American talent.

So it's a complicated, it is a maneuver.

I'm close to knowing himself by yelling,

and each other more than any other, and each other, and we're almost in a position of mediator between them, essentially.

Our situations are better than any of us thought possible.

And what it takes now is wisdom and statesmanship on everybody's side.

And after that, it lasts fast until a war can kick over the agreement of the president

Actually, if the war goes on two more years, the situation at the moment has really changed much because it's now a population that is not now under governmental control.

That's right.

It's in such remote areas that it's almost impossible to get it back.

The North Vietnamese always had the option of going to protracted war.

then we can say we can bind them to the heels, but they can always turn up the binding by offering us our prisoners.

So we have this limited what we can get in terms of agreements.

And now the problem is how to bring to a conclusion.

I told you when I saw him on the instructions of the president, he said, we're facing a very hard situation.

I said, I know he's lost the war.

And I said, you won the war, and you sometimes talk to your laws.

And so it's partly a psychological problem now to get this outcome.

Basically what gets down to him, what irritates you might see him, is this.

It's not just to be shown to prove his man that he's independent of the American students.

He does not want us to leave.

And he isn't self-confident.

Now, actually, he can win.

He will win.

Well, then he hasn't met, he hasn't ever, he's not, he knows he can conduct a war.

He's never had a really political context.

But here he is.

He controls 93% of the population.

The police force that's larger than the B.C.

He's got more B.C.

in the prison than the countryside working against it.

Under all of these conditions, if you were a B.C.

country in the South, you saw the outcome of the war, and it's the only thing you get.

Are the handlers you held for 15 years

Your colleagues stay in South Media in these prisons.

And you don't share in any respect the government inside out.

I don't think that the D.C. are infinitely more demoralized.

I always think that they accept to the extent that they would the seats in the national legislature in the next election.

Well, I assume that you would reach to my hopes, but I think that's the only possibility to see.

The free elections that would be held would only allow them to...

So what we're really saying is here, we got our prisoners back.

Of course, you can't find more aged prisoners back.

That is in consideration now.

We have ceased to fire throughout Cambodia, Laos and Cambodia as well, which we have.

Beyond that, we have resisted the imposition of a coalition government.

The future will be determined by the future of South Vietnam in an election.

We've always said that the election machine should be set up in a group in which the Congress participate, but the other Congress does set it up as sort of a supervisory business.

That's so fuzzled up that I would think, too, my guess is he's probably never going to have an election.

But the point that we have to make is that we have to look at our option.

The option then, and we can do this, the option is to just say, well, the team won't accept it.

And therefore, we break off the negotiations.

But the American people, in my opinion, and I think I know we've had to carry it along for over four years now, despite the 90% opposition of the media, many of the, shall we say, all of the most opinion makers and so forth.

But if you think in terms of fighting only

to keep in power.

You see, the men, they won't do it.

They won't do it.

That's an analogy.

If you have another judgment, I'd be interested, because we've tried to lay it out as, that we're not being defensive about it.

What do you think?

It's fine.

That's enough.

Divorce.

Divorce is very important.

I had lunch with a newly correspondent, which has been in Hanoi, who's the only person on the newsroom who's going to listen to it, who isn't cancerous, and who's been four out of eight, not five, is it?

And he said, you've monitored my inventory.

Sure.

Well, I would tell you, Chris, let anybody call what they want, as long as you have the substance and you have it pinned down.

If they want to call the inventory, I think for me,

to affect what you're trying to affect.

Let them add that to it.

As far as the view is concerned, he has to listen and be assured.

Look, we understand what you're trying to do, and we understand that you haven't left, but we want you to go home.

Up to a point.

And at that point, you won't lose everything.

You leave us no opportunity for that, but pull out the step that you want us to take.

I'm so sorry.

I'm sure you won't soon, sir.

Because we could pull out that for our prisoners.

We could make that deal tomorrow.

We could do that tomorrow, except it would not only destroy Vietnam.

But we don't want to.

We don't want to.

He has to expose, receive some assurance that we understand what he's trying to do.

Not to play this game too far.

It's not going to work.

Well, he's also got to understand, too, that I don't suppose he can understand that for four years, running against the tide of what appeared to be the intelligent opinion in this country, thank God it wasn't the majority opinion, or we wouldn't be here right now, perhaps.

Running against that tide, we have tried to bring the war to an honorable conclusion.

It would have been so easy to bug out our neighbor.

Now we've got it.

And we feel that saving these people, giving them the right to keep their own future is an enormous achievement.

And it's a team within itself, but it's also a team in terms of attempts, similar attempts that I actually try to do.

Or is it that they're not being encouraged?

I say that it's the purpose to discourage aggression all over the world.

That's the way to tolerate evil, that's right.

But rather, the best way to encourage it was to tolerate it.

But they have the idea that's for sure.

It's just, they can wear you down, but that's just what it becomes.

I'd like to say that this, one of the things about this settlement is that it's been a lesson to the Russians.

The fact that we might have bombed it in Moscow brought us more respect.

It's a lesson for the Chinese.

There were not many people around.

It helps us in the Middle East.

Let me tell you one person who really understands this is Mrs. Meyer, because she's strong and tough.

And she said, now look, she understands that there are many people that are total pacifists and so forth.

But she said, look, she said, we rather understand that if they get away with it there, they're going to give us a push.

And that's quite true.

You never let them.

You can't.

That doesn't mean.

The day of total victory, I suppose, because of the nuclear possibilities.

And our own strengths and our own civilized approach to them is perhaps gone.

I mean, that's one way to look at it.

They said, bomb into the Stone Age and make them surrender.

We could do that.

But what would it do to us?

Couldn't do it, right?

I don't think we could do it without you two.

That's what I mean.

That's what people are supposed to suggest.

But my point is, we can't do that.

Also, the risks, the risks of that is going to be enormous.

Is North Vietnam willing to settle to accept these terms if they want to sign?

Oh, yeah.

Well, I mean, I'll mention it rather than be honest with you.

Quite frankly, it's like, uh, what we have to do is go back to North, to the North Vietnamese and get them out of the committee, save the tourists, which we can then make to Saigon.

And Saigon can try to get some changes.

But the substance of the agreement is that North Vietnam has agreed to, and we can agree to, the substance.

But on the other hand, fighting off, we want to nail down certain things and get away with it.

In fact, one of the tragedies of the present situation is that the possible changes that we are about to get in this renegotiation may not be good as the lack of confidence that is developing in Illinois.

and then I asked Dietrich Wilhelm to serve the agreement, and he was a tool.

Well, I think we're going to wrap it up.

We're going to wrap it up.

Because it's dangerous.

We have to just pull back and reconsider what we want to do.

We should not assume that we're going to continue.

But I think we have the Chinese in the act.

We have the Russians in the act.

We've got to get somebody to work on it.

We'll see it.

But that's not a reward.

The biggest thing you can do for him is ask for a settlement to put yourself behind it.

If you see him before a settlement, then it looks as if you had blackjack and he can blackmail you.

Well, it is a problem, but we're going to overcome it.

Well, we will, because you see, there's another thing, too.

We have to leave our camp hanging over the city of Washington.

Now it doesn't bother us one bit, just in the American election.

Oh, in their minds.

In their minds.

The problem is that the North Vietnamese think that we're under the guise of settlement for the election, but we're not under the guise because we're perfectly... the settlement's not making a difference.

We're failing the settlement's not making a difference.

remembers what happened in 1968 when the bombing halt was called by Johnson over his objections in order to affect an election, he believes, and it had quite an effect on the election, made it closer than it was otherwise be.

Now, too, he started thinking that, well, if he plays the line, plays hard to get, that we will come his way for the election, but he doesn't realize is that the options are totally different.

In 1968, his boxing, that too was opposing a bombing halt,

which would have involved Humphrey, Humphrey, a very decent fellow, and highly responsible.

And he put Vietnam to the softer position than I did.

So his option was to help me, if anything, and therefore he would have voted.

But now, his option is this.

It isn't even, it isn't even that.

McGarvey's not going to win, which he hasn't quite realized yet.

But even apart from that, all that he is doing, by playing the election game, is jeopardizing

Frankly, the all-out support that a teacher can manage this office, that's the part that we've made.

We're talking quite candidly.

That's quite true.

I agree with that, too.

And after the election, I guess we'll move on.

There's another question on my mind.

This has been my comment on the Senate.

I said I had released a statement against the president of the conference.

And I said I didn't want to give it up.

The president of the conference said it's only a cap to do it.

The president has to vote for Craig because it's critical that he does it.

the question that the human efforts are, and it's apparent what you said, but at the same time, we need a little divine guidance and process, and so I want to tell you, Mr. President, we appreciate that.

We're not unlike you.

You may hear a discordant voice, I'm sure.

We also have people in the church, thank God, and Mr. Cash is worried about more fish than us at all.

If you have any sense, you can put him on your payroll, because he's never won a license, he's never had a motion to go off the floor.

All he has to do is, if you want to pass something, have him say no, and he'll be passed.

If you want to keep him out of that, have him say yes, and keep him out of that.

But I hope that you don't do this, Dirk.

I take no surveys, I have no measuring gauge.

But I can assure you that the efforts that have been made are deeply appreciated.

Most people realize that this is not an easy thing to do.

They realize, and we want them to realize, and I say the main thing among many other things, that I am always disappointed that we are not playing politics for this issue.

If we were,

We just don't do some of that today.

But we don't do that because we want him to come along as graciously as possible in order to say something to the people he's seeing.

So we're not going to have peace at that cost.

We want the right kind of peace.

This is a matter of serious concern, but I know that you do have a lot of appreciation for American people because it may be your everyday work, but this has a

I don't think he's gonna make it there.

Oh, uh, you'd like to see me at all?

Yes, sir.

Oh, this is probably a gift.

Well, I thought you'd say, oh, it's just a matter of having that in our conference, uh, you could come.

Oh, you might want to be present then.

Yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

So.

You're not required to do that.

And another one for you.

Did you do the conference last night?

No, I didn't.

All right, we should do this.

This is a good conference.

Where's the table now?

It's in front of the flag.

Watch it over here.

I can see you've got the old one.

It's over there.

It needs to be moved.

It's in front of the flag over here.

What do you think?

Thank you.

All right.

We should have been able to get him back in time.

God, didn't he do it a lot harder than that?

Very true.

It is the most hard-line carpet in the Catholic Church.

He says that.

You know we're doing the right thing.

I know, Mr. President.

I know we're doing the right thing.

But two is going to be... Who can we send up?

Let's look at it the other way.

Supposing we had Stonewall to go there.

Supposing they had published the...

Supposing the government would run around the country in some year, we see the author sees by the withdrawal of prisoners, the withdrawal of prisoners and prisoners of their own, and then the administration won't take it.

If we were to be dead, what would we have said?

We wouldn't have known it would be the result.

We would have never have thought it.

I mean, Q is unconscionable.

Can we, is there anything more we can do with Q?

Is there any message we can send out there, sir?

Interacting, my friend.

We could say, hey, this is God.

Who could really?

Can't do it.

Hey, can't do it.

Hey, might have to send, I don't want to go again.

He can't.

Because he's going to drive me crazy.

But hey.

We might have to send Dave next week with a letter from him.

And just tell him to deliver the letter and come right back.

So why doesn't he go alone?

You know that if you've got, maybe you've got anybody in the service that we could send.

I'm a little at home.

He's got the guts.

He's always got the guts.

But I think you'll get it.

What I think we might have to consider is sending Nate next week.

Okay.

And then I'll go and wrap it up.

I don't think I should go anymore.

Yeah.

Well, I don't think Nate should go to negotiate.

Nate should just go to bring a letter and come right back.

It's an exhaust that only this one doesn't talk.

And, uh, hey, uh...