{"conversationCode":"812-012","tapeNumber":812,"conversationNumber":12,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-812-012","startDateTime":"1972-11-03T16:17:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-11-03T16:27:00.000Z","startDate":"3-Nov-1972","startTime":"11:17 AM","endDate":"3-Nov-1972","endTime":"11:27 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Butterfield, Alexander P.; Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On November 3, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, Alexander P. Butterfield, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:17 am to 11:27 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 812-012 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":"5.2","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part II","chronReleaseDate":"2-Dec-2008","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 812-12\n\nDate: November 3, 1972\nTime: 11:17 am - 11:27 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Henry A. Kissinger.\n\n       Vietnam War\n            -Kissinger’s recent meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin\n\n       The President’s schedule\n\f                                             -18-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                              Conversation No. 812-13 (cont’d)\n\n      Vietnam War\n           -Settlement agreement\n                  -Public relations [PR]\n                        -Kissinger’s meeting with John W. Chancellor, November 2, 1972\n                        -Washington Post editorials, Louis P. Harris\n                               -Washington Star\n                        -Kissinger’s role\n                               -Second term\n                        -William P. Rogers’s role\n                        -Melvin R. Laird’s role\n                        -Kissinger’s role\n                               -Soviet Union\n                               -Press relations\n                                     -Max Frankel\n                                     -Crosby S. Noyes\n                                            -Washington Star                             -\nHoward K. Smith\n                               -Tone\n                               -Rebuttal to George S. McGovern\n                                     -Strategy\n                                            -“Peace is at hand”\n                                            -Focus on issues\n                                     -Format\n                                            -Television [TV]\n                                            -Ronald L. Ziegler’s view\n                                            -Backgrounder\n                                                  -Attribution\n                                                        -Quotes\n                                                  -Tone\n                                                        -Conservatives\n                                                                -John Birch Society\n                                                  -Advantages\n                                     -Press relations\n                                     -Format\n                                            -Possible meeting with senior correspondents\n                                                  -Timing\n                                                        -November 3, 1972\n                                                  -Advantages\n                                                        -Second term\n\f                                                -19-\n\n                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                               Conversation No. 812-13 (cont’d)\n\n                                                                -First month\n                                                        -“Peace is at hand”\n                                                                -Compared to Kissinger’s India-\n                                                                 Pakistan War press conference,\n                                                                 December 14, 1971\n                                                  -Timing\n                                                        -Press coverage\n                                                                -November 4 and 5, 1972\n                                                  -Advisability\n                                                        -Ziegler\n                                                                -Airplane\n                                                  -Alternative to Kissinger\n                                                        -Ziegler\n                                                  -Single story\n                                                        -Tone\n\nAlexander P. Butterfield entered at 11:20 am.\n\n       The President’s forthcoming telephone calls\n            -List\n\n       Vietnam War\n            -Settlement agreement\n                   -PR\n                        -McGovern\n\n       The President’s telephone calls\n            -List\n                  -[William Mills] of Los Angeles\n                         -November 4, 1972\n\nButterfield left at 11:24 am.\n\n       Vietnam War\n            -Settlement agreement\n            -PR\n                   -McGovern\n                        -Rebuttal\n                             -Kissinger’s role\n                        -Arguments\n\f                                               -20-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                             Conversation No. 812-13 (cont’d)\n\n                               -“Peace is at hand”\n                                    -Hoax\n                                    -Peace\n                                           -Disintegration\n                                           -Success\n                               -Rebuttal\n                                    -Politicos’ role\n                                    -Kissinger’s role\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:24 am.\n\n       The President’s schedule\n            -Coat\n            -Briefcase\n            -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon’s location\n\nThe President, Kissinger, and Bull left at 11:27 am.","filename":["812-012.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Kissinger, Henry A.","Butterfield, Alexander P.","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"812-011","nextCode":"812-013","transcript":[{"start":1.97,"end":12.5,"text":"I've been thinking about the NRGC Chancellor today."},{"start":13.44,"end":18.96,"text":"I saw him yesterday."},{"start":25.45,"end":26.03,"text":"He's enthusiastic."},{"start":26.07,"end":38.66,"text":"My view is that I would be worried at the present time about this, uh, I mean, I, uh, you know, the Washington Post starting over from Paris, uh, the hoaxes and the raids and that sort of stuff."},{"start":39.5,"end":44.02,"text":"I think most of the thing at the present time, my governor, he's puzzled tomorrow."},{"start":45.28,"end":54.24,"text":"and say that, uh, we've done that piece, but if we've moved you out, and you're at the end of tomorrow morning, I'm worried about, uh, Jessica, let's call her."},{"start":54.27,"end":63.75,"text":"You see, I've got, we want to preserve these girls, and she's a sad parent, and I'll get you two boys, but we don't have a problem."},{"start":63.79,"end":65.82,"text":"Now I'll get a man."},{"start":65.88,"end":67.1,"text":"I think you've got to think about that."},{"start":98.28,"end":101.36,"text":"Because that's what it means to be the way that we are, and what I'd like to see you do that."},{"start":122.73,"end":126.25,"text":"because I'm scared to hear about it."},{"start":126.59,"end":138.2,"text":"The other, for me and Bobby and I, we just need to believe that they need to be harsh, and others, or even if they are very honest and want to make it up, it doesn't matter."},{"start":138.32,"end":142.28,"text":"It's, it's, they do, it's, it's a good thing, it doesn't matter."},{"start":144.21,"end":151.15,"text":"It isn't a question of asking the governor."},{"start":151.35,"end":154.05,"text":"I don't really want to ask Mr. McGovern."},{"start":154.09,"end":170.14,"text":"The thing I could do at some point is to calm everybody down to get the game plan before them so that they don't keep yacking about he's a man."},{"start":170.98,"end":171.8,"text":"Has it blown up?"},{"start":171.88,"end":172.74,"text":"Has it not blown up?"},{"start":175.16,"end":177.78,"text":"But, I could tell them, focus on the fundamentals."},{"start":178.26,"end":180.88,"text":"What are the issues?"},{"start":181.3,"end":186.94,"text":"Why, uh, so it isn't a question of stars and counter-stars, but take the big picture."},{"start":186.96,"end":191.62,"text":"I wish, I wish we could do it without doing it."},{"start":191.64,"end":194.81,"text":"Is it worth it?"},{"start":194.84,"end":198.41,"text":"No, we shouldn't do it in front of television."},{"start":198.49,"end":200.73,"text":"In fact, what I would most have preferred is,"},{"start":201.79,"end":218.16,"text":"to do it as a as a sort of background as an attributed background uh the administration they could say i could get back down there and they could take this as a field"},{"start":219.17,"end":221.33,"text":"But no doubt it, quote, no, I'll tell you what you do every time you think about it."},{"start":221.35,"end":222.15,"text":"You start losing your self-confidence."},{"start":222.17,"end":224.93,"text":"Because what we want to do is to keep this state-of-the-art operator is keep a little hope, but also keep it hard."},{"start":224.95,"end":226.71,"text":"So they don't fear that we're sort of like a conversion."},{"start":226.75,"end":227.63,"text":"They don't say, you know, no, no, no, no."},{"start":246.14,"end":254.24,"text":"The only advantage of doing it would be to keep people from saying it was all a hoax."},{"start":254.32,"end":256.19,"text":"There is no peace coming."},{"start":256.26,"end":260.23,"text":"The thing is disintegrated."},{"start":261.88,"end":263.2,"text":"Well, how much better is that than in the sun?"},{"start":263.22,"end":263.46,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":263.48,"end":264.12,"text":"I'm never going to say that."},{"start":264.14,"end":265,"text":"I don't know how many times I've seen it."},{"start":265.02,"end":265.32,"text":"You see it."},{"start":265.34,"end":273.81,"text":"You're, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,"},{"start":290.8,"end":294.39,"text":"and it would have the only other advantages in terms of what I may have to do in the first month at least of the second term is"},{"start":313.66,"end":317.65,"text":"If they start another one of these campaigns against me, I'll sit with that."},{"start":317.71,"end":320.39,"text":"But India-Pakistan, about 50 to a half, right?"},{"start":320.49,"end":320.87,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":321.03,"end":321.61,"text":"Oh, it's good."},{"start":321.67,"end":325.43,"text":"I've seen on the record with this white crew."},{"start":325.45,"end":326.63,"text":"That's my base."},{"start":327.97,"end":328.57,"text":"Thank you, sir."},{"start":328.98,"end":329.92,"text":"And let's forget about that tomorrow."},{"start":329.94,"end":331.24,"text":"Get to those steps and sort of cover the three next ones."},{"start":331.26,"end":331.88,"text":"Be sure that we receive them."},{"start":331.9,"end":332.52,"text":"Don't just do it for college."},{"start":332.54,"end":333.38,"text":"Do it right after the election."},{"start":333.4,"end":334.38,"text":"Your only interest is to get us on the grid now."},{"start":334.42,"end":334.66,"text":"And it's now."},{"start":334.68,"end":334.88,"text":"Right now."},{"start":334.9,"end":336.2,"text":"So that we, so that's ready for the Saturdays and Sundays."},{"start":352.11,"end":355.49,"text":"Why don't we just forget about it?"},{"start":355.51,"end":358.07,"text":"I have no particular interest in it."},{"start":358.13,"end":362.57,"text":"I thought there was some advantage in having one"},{"start":381.01,"end":382.61,"text":"after this central shore."},{"start":383.66,"end":385.44,"text":"They put it all together, it was nuts."},{"start":386.16,"end":393.25,"text":"was not a six-column headline, but just the good of calming, integrating things."},{"start":394.71,"end":396.65,"text":"That'd be it."},{"start":397.13,"end":398.79,"text":"At least not at the time."},{"start":398.87,"end":402.87,"text":"But they're also strong counter-arguments."},{"start":402.89,"end":405.88,"text":"I think what you said is a powerful argument."},{"start":406,"end":406.58,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":421.47,"end":424.01,"text":"But let's ask Billy, Alex, I guess they're getting something."},{"start":424.1,"end":424.6,"text":"Let's ask the council."},{"start":424.63,"end":426.8,"text":"I'll put you on the list for tomorrow."},{"start":426.88,"end":427.62,"text":"All right."},{"start":427.76,"end":428.08,"text":"All right."},{"start":444.74,"end":445.06,"text":"Mr."},{"start":445.46,"end":454.5,"text":"Governor, it may be that, that A was a hoax, that E is, that E is falling apart."},{"start":454.66,"end":459.8,"text":"Uh, C is that you're not being trusted, and that E is... Yeah."},{"start":480.35,"end":481.19,"text":"I know."},{"start":481.31,"end":484.55,"text":"Well, do you think it would be better to have that engine around here?"},{"start":484.61,"end":484.95,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":484.97,"end":487.51,"text":"I think it's still important to get that out there."},{"start":487.55,"end":488.89,"text":"But I think it is what it is."},{"start":488.95,"end":492.86,"text":"But it was, it was, it was all designed, uh, all designed by the government."},{"start":492.9,"end":497,"text":"The thing that I could do to get it around, uh, is, uh, where did it, like, go here?"},{"start":497.18,"end":498.76,"text":"Uh, is that, is that the right place?"},{"start":498.78,"end":498.98,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":499,"end":502.2,"text":"That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's,"}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Henry Kissinger met to strategize on public relations regarding the Vietnam War, specifically addressing potential criticism from George McGovern that the ongoing peace negotiations were a hoax. They evaluated the pros and cons of holding a background press briefing to counter these claims and reinforce the narrative that \"peace is at hand.\" Ultimately, the President directed staff to coordinate the logistics for such a session while remaining cautious about the tone and timing of the messaging to ensure it served the administration's goals.","topics":["Vietnam War","Peace negotiations","Public relations","George McGovern","Press management","Election strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-08T00:18:45.470Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","peace-negotiations","public-relations","george-mcgovern","press-management","election-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":513,"audioFiles":[{"file":"812-012.mp3","bytes":12319581,"durationSec":513.2,"bitrate":192043,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:58.477Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:44:37.945Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/812-012.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/812-012","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/812/conversation-812-012","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}