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Conversation: 815-011

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Start Date: 24-Nov-1972 9:37 AM

End Date: 24-Nov-1972 10:14 AM

Participants:

Nixon, Richard M. (President)Romney, George W.Ehrlichman, John D.Sanchez, Manolo

Recording Device: Oval Office

815-011.mp3

NARA Description:

On November 24, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, George W. Romney, John D. Ehrlichman, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:37 am to 10:14 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 815-011 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid:

Conversation No. 815-11

Date: November 24, 1972
Time: 9:37 am - 10:14 am
Location: Oval Office

The President met with George W. Romney and John D. Ehrlichman.

       Greetings

       Thanksgiving

       Romney’s schedule
           -Appearance at real estate convention
                 -Hawaii
                      -Maunakea
                            -Laurance S. Rockefeller
                      -The President's visit
                            -1966 campaign
                                   -[Randolph Crossley]
                      -Maunakea
                            -Climate
                                   -Weather
                      -Volcanoes
                      -Swimming
                            -Lenore L. Romney
                      -Golfing
                                            -16-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Jan.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)


Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 9:37 am.

       Refreshments
            -Coffee
            -Coca-Cola
            -Pepsi-Cola

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 10:14 am.

       Second term reorganization
            -George Romney
                  -Agenda for current meeting
                        -Subsequent meetings
                              -George Romney’s schedule
                        -Successor
                        -Personal plans
                  -Successor
                        -Richard C. Van Dusen
                              -Departure
                        -Confirmation
                  -Retention
                  -Departure
                        -Timing
                              -January 1973
                  -Department of Housing and Urban Development [HUD]
                        -Romney's recommendations
                  -National housing problems
                  -Personal plans

            -HUD
                -HUD
                      -Romney’s recommendations
                            -Subsequent meetings
                                  -Successor
                                  -Timing
                -Retail and wholesale market
                -Subsidized housing and community development
                      -State responsibilities
                            -Congressional relations
                                           -17-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. Jan.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)

                                  -Budget cuts
                                        -Taxes
                             -Timing
                                  -Statutory changes
                             -The President’s budget message
                             -George Romney’s conversations with Caspar W. (“Cap”)
                              Weinberger and Frank C. Carlucci
                             -Subsequent meeting

     Domestic affairs
         -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
                -Expenditures
         -Department of Transportation
                -Problems
                      -Highways
                      -Railroads
         -Inheritance from 1960s

     HUD
           -Accomplishments
                -Review
                -Decentralization
                -1972 economy
                     -The President’s meeting with building trades industry, circa 1970
                -Romney's accomplishments
                     -The President's letter
                            -Substance
                            -Second term reorganization
                                  -Domestic affairs


**************************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

      1972 election
           -The President’s long-standing supporters
                  -House of Representatives
                  -1962 election
           -The President’s landslide
                  -Compared to Romney’s work
                                            -18-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Jan.-08)

                                                             Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)


[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
**************************************************************************


           -Resistance from bureaucracy, Congress, industry
           -Change
                 -Time required
           -Housing
                 -Central cities
                       -State responsibilities
                              -Social problem
                                    -Compared to physical problem
                              -Local governments
                              -New York
                                    -Nelson A. Rockefeller
                                          -John V. Lindsay
                                          -Railroads
                                          -New York City
                              -Federal government role

      George Romney
           -Concerns
                 -Crisis and reform
                       -Previous conversation with the President
           -Job offers
                 -Urban Coalition
                       -James M. Roche
                       -Andrew Heiskell
                       -Vernon E. Jordan, Jr.
                       -Status
                              -John W. Gardner
                       -Areas of support
                 -National Center for Volunteer Action [NCVA]
                       -W. Clement Stone
                       -Douglas K. Kinsey
                       -Activities
                              -Voluntary action information centers
                              -Inquiries
                                    -Volume
                               -19-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                        Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. Jan.-08)

                                               Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)

-Concerns
     -Privatization
     -Political process
            -Dependence on crisis
                  -Reform
-Proposals
     -A merger of Urban Coalition and NCVA
            -Effect on stocks
            -Heiskell’s concern
                  -Max M. Fisher
                  -Edwin D. Etherington
            -Stone
            -Fisher
            -Etherington
     -Citizens’s coalition
            -Previous meeting with the President
            -Papers
                  -Concept, organization
                  -Presentation to the President
     -Merger of the Urban Coalition NCVA
            -Advantages
                  -Contributors, workers
            -Lenore Romney
            -Urban collation
                  -Heiskell
                  -Gardner
            -NCVA
            -Think tank
                  -NCVA
                        -Compared to Urban Coalition
                  -Name
                        -Common Cause
                        -Citizens Coalition for Voluntary and Community Action
                         [CCVCA]
                        -Citizens coalition for Community Action [CCCA]
                              -Television [TV] commercials
                  -Gardner
                        -Bigger agreement
                              -Left wing
                              -The President’s and George Romney’s view
                                -20-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         Tape Subject Log
                           (rev. Jan.-08)

                                                Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)

                               -Spending
                               -George Romney’s challenge at national governor’s
                                 conference
            -Future assistance
      -Nelson Rockefeller
            -Assistance to George Romney
                   -Meeting with the President at Camp David
                         -Cabinet
                               -John B. Connally
            -Financial aid
                   -Support for think tank
      -Think tank
            -Administration support
                   -Urban coalition
                   -NCVA
                   -George Romney’s role
                         -Front man, fund raising
-The President's advice to Melvin R. Laird
      -Departure from cabinet
            -Possible Senate candidacy
            -Business
-Plans
      -Recruitment by groups
            -George Romney’s connections, experience
            -Romney's control
-The President’s experience in 1960
      -Offers from organizations
            -Business
            -Boys Clubs of America
                   -Herbert C. Hoover
            -Fundraising
-Think tank
      -Communications
      -Tax exemptions
            -Politics
      -Detroit school study
            -Recommendations
      -Urban Coalition
            -Gardner’s split
                   -Tax exempt status
                                      -21-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               Tape Subject Log
                                 (rev. Jan.-08)

                                                       Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)

                       -Common Cause
           -Problems
           -Tax exemption status
                 -Possible organizational split
           -Name
                 -Use of “national”
                 -NCCCA, N3CA
           -Administration support
                 -Heiskell
                 -Jordan
                       -Ehrlichman
                       -Urban League
                       -Meetings on George Romney, the President
                       -North Carolina

Second term reorganization
     -Community development department
           -Environmental protection agency [EPA]
           -Land use, city planning
     -HUD
           -Minority groups
                 -Safety valve
                 -Racial problems
                       -Lyndon B. Johnson
                             -Burning ethics
                 -Appointments
                       -Sympathy
                       -George Romney’s tenure
                       -Samuel J. Simmons
                       -Samuel C. Jackson
                             -Qualifications
                             -Possible move
                             -1972 campaign
                       -Black administrators
                       -Jackson
                             -Relationship with blacks
                             -Title
                                    -General Assistant Secretary
                             -Policy decisions
                       -White administrators
                                  -22-

         NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                           Tape Subject Log
                             (rev. Jan.-08)

                                                  Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)

                     -Jackson
                           -Under secretaryship
                                 -Structure
                                       -Functional basis
                                             -Decentralization
                                       -Assistant secretaries
                                             -Staff function
                                       -Line function
                                             -Secretary’s office
                                             -Staff
                                                     -Policy organization
                                       -George Romney’s conversation with
                                        Ehrlichman
                     -Blacks
                           -George Romney’s forthcoming conversation with
                            Ehrlichman
                           -White House
                                 -Robert J. Brown
                                 -Stanley S. Scott
                                 -Symbolism
                           -Treasury Department
                                 -Samuel R. Pierce, Jr.
         -George Romney's successor
               -Forthcoming meeting with Ehrlichman and George Romney
    -Confidentiality
          -George Romney’s successor
    -Cabinet
         -Congressional elections
         -George Romney’s possible statement
    -HUD
         -Department of Transportation
               -Urban problems
         -Roy L. Ash
         -Assistant secretary
               -Revised functions
         -Regionalization
         -Possible meeting with Ash

George Romney
     -Future
                                            -23-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                    Tape Subject Log
                                      (rev. Jan.-08)

                                                            Conversation No. 815-11 (cont’d)

                  -Appointments
                       -Announcements
                             -Timing
                  -Announcement of departure
                       -Timing
                       -Possible press conference
                             -Timing
                             -Letter of resignation
                             -Romney's plans
                                   -Successor
                                          -The President’s acceptance
                             -Release of letter
                                   -Timing
                                          -White House
                             -Timing
                                   -William W. Scranton’s invitation to George Romney
                                          -Municipal League
                                                -Minneapolis
                       -Resignation letters

      Second term reorganization
           -George Romney’s view
           -Cabinet
                 -Bureaucracy
                 -Changes in positions
                       -Laird
                       -William P. Rogers
                             -Vietnam negotiations
                 -Mistakes of previous Presidents
                       -Dwight D. Eisenhower
                             -Retention of Cabinet officers
                                   -George T. Humphrey
                                         -“Hair-curling” depression statement
                                   -Arthur Summerfield
                                   -Ezra Taft Benson
           -Decentralization
           -Tax cuts
           -Revenue sharing

Ehrlichman and Romney left at 10:14 am.
                                                -24-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Jan.-08)