Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 817-012
Date: Thursday, November 30, 1972 at 11:49 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Cox, Tricia Nixon; Bull, Stephen B.; Davis, Jeanne Wilson
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/817-012

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] Hi.
[0:01] Hi, Daddy.
[0:01] How are you?
[0:05] Mm-hmm.
[0:07] I love it.
[0:29] Perfectly safe and very, very nice.
[0:31] Claridge is the best place to stay in Hamburg.
[0:34] It's not very expensive, but it'll be next to you.
[0:36] An American embassy officer shouldn't be escorted into the SSR for a very fundamental reason.
[0:45] You can also be in transit.
[0:48] There's no problem with that.
[0:49] And if it's Soviet press there, you've got to have American press in protection.
[0:55] There'll be no harm.
[0:56] If it's Soviet, you've got to be in public.
[0:57] The other is not public.
[0:59] They said maybe Egypt.
[0:59] What do you think of that?
[1:03] Egypt, you don't play a fair way to this.
[1:05] Mrs. Jean Davis sounds great.
[1:06] She's a good one to work with on that.
[1:11] I agree with several of your suggestions about new towns.
[1:16] You don't want to go to the damn new towns.
[1:22] No.
[1:22] There's a Windsor Castle in Windsor.
[1:23] Interesting to you.
[1:23] No.
[1:24] I also marked out the...
[1:32] No, I don't, we don't want to do that.
[1:34] Not all the universities.
[1:35] No.
[1:35] Because you're likely to run into heckling.
[1:37] That's right, even at the American University.
[1:38] Don't, or by all, and particularly the American universities.
[1:41] No.
[1:41] Don't go to any universities.
[1:42] I agree.
[1:42] To the extent you can do, it would be nice to the embassy staff, it would be nice if they want to have a meeting with the embassy staff.
[1:49] Meet them, it takes a half hour, and I never was able to do it.
[1:53] You can tell them how much you appreciate their work for America.
[2:01] I would say do the sightseeing in Athens and so forth, in Cairo and so forth.
[2:06] I would go to Aslong Dam.
[2:07] It's a hell of a thing to see, but be sure to go back and see Luxor.
[2:11] You know, they...
[2:12] I thought we might not go to see the dam since it wasn't built by us anyway.
[2:17] And maybe we... and it is historical.
[2:19] I'd go to the temple by all means.
[2:20] But we would go to the temples and all.
[2:22] I'd be sure you'd go to the temples.
[2:23] No.
[2:23] And then skip the dam.
[2:24] Say that you've seen it before.
[2:26] Right.
[2:27] Yeah, he was in before.
[2:29] He should be very nice to the Sadat and very nice to the King of Jordan.
[2:33] They're both friends of ours.
[2:37] Well, but you think they'll want to meet with us, please, or what?
[2:40] Oh, you may.
[2:41] You may or not.
[2:42] I'm sure that they may want to have a little courtesy talk.
[2:45] I met the King.
[2:45] I met him at the last launch.
[2:47] Right.
[2:48] He should be nice to them.
[2:49] He's a very nice person.
[2:51] In Israel, you know, we have to go all out being nice to people.
[3:00] And visiting in kibbutz is a good idea.
[3:01] That's, well, you've got to see how it's done.
[3:03] And, you know, I mean, it's an interesting part of your education to see how they raise their kids separately.
[3:16] And the calls and so forth.
[3:18] The Black Seas are very famous.
[3:22] In Lenneberg, I go see the college, the great, immaculately college in Wyoming.
[3:27] And stay overnight in Lenneberg if they offer the guest house.
[3:31] Moscow, they do want you to stay with the residents, which is better.
[3:34] They don't have a good guest house in Moscow, except in Kremlin, where actually you can't stay.
[3:40] Tashkent, I ruled out.
[3:40] I don't see any reason to go there.
[3:43] You don't want to go to a collective farm.
[3:45] No.
[3:46] What I thought you should go is to Samarkand, where you've got the beautiful blue roads of Angus Khan.
[3:54] over Samarkand.
[3:55] I put it on here.
[3:57] I've been there.
[3:58] It's direct again.
[3:59] It's another part of the world.
[4:01] It's near Persia.
[4:02] Yeah, I'd love to see that.
[4:04] Daddy, you know, we don't want to spend much time in Jordan.
[4:07] I feel... Jordan can just be a... A day.
[4:10] A day.
[4:10] That's a good Israel.
[4:11] Everybody understands that.
[4:13] But you don't have to have a day.
[4:15] So many of the same number of days each election.
[4:19] Fair enough.
[4:20] Okay, there it is.
[4:22] When do you leave?
[4:23] Well, um, I just wanted to let you know that- Do you want to meet Mrs. Bagers?
[4:28] I do too.
[4:32] They are something very interesting to her.
[4:34] Yes.
[4:35] Mrs. Bagers, the kind of agent David is, is about to see you.
[4:39] As I thought, if you work the thing out, man, this is the arena he's supposed to call you.
[4:57] But I'm not going to see them when they're here.
[4:58] I just haven't got the time right now.
[5:01] So I'm in the middle of the cabinet.
[5:04] I'm in the middle of the Vietnam negotiations and all the rest.
[5:07] But they're welcome to go to camp.
[5:09] But I would tell mommy that I wouldn't go to Camp David.
[5:12] They should do their New York part if you could work this out.
[5:24] major announcements and campaigns on Tuesday and Wednesday.
[5:28] The campaign will be open starting Thursday if they want it.
[5:32] But I will not be there.
[5:33] I've got to come back to Washington to work on Vietnam, the balance of the week.
[5:36] I've got to be here.
[5:38] And that's fine.
[5:40] See, I don't want to get caught in the behind the jacket campaign.
[5:54] But I think Camp David, they would like better.
[5:58] And so tell her that she could use Camp David, which is perfect for her to eat at home in Washington.
[6:06] Tell her that if she'll only let me know when they're going to Camp David, then I can fan myself in front of them.
[6:12] So after Thursday would be good, right?
[6:15] Or?
[6:15] Tuesday, Wednesday, yes.
[6:17] Tuesday, Wednesday.
[6:18] They could come up Thursday night.
[6:20] I will not be there.
[6:21] I come down here.
[6:22] But they can't say that it's available for the whole weekend if they want Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
[6:27] They could use it.
[6:28] But that I have to be here because I have to be here for Vietnam talks.
[6:32] Well, they don't expect that.
[6:34] That sounds great.
[6:35] Well, you've got a hell of a trip planned there, and Mrs. Sabrina is trying to be very nice to you.
[6:40] You know, now you understand there will be a lot of public people that will be there.
[6:45] And remember, you're going to be, well, you'll be the eye of public attention.
[6:50] And I'd be very nice to them if you don't need to have any press conferences or anything, because you're not on any of those.
[6:56] Daddy, we always do a good job when we don't go.
[6:58] I know.
[6:58] I know what I meant.
[6:59] I mean, accept them.
[7:02] They'll love to see you.
[7:04] We do sort of want to make it a private trip.
[7:06] Make it a private trip to the extent that you can.
[7:09] But don't.
[7:10] If anything, let it have a good feeling.
[7:12] If you have to bend over, bend over in terms of being nice to the press rather than turning them away.
[7:18] You know what I mean?
[7:19] And, you know, we're glad to see you and so forth.
[7:21] I'm not going to make any public comments or anything.
[7:25] No, no.
[7:28] In other words, I'll handle it just like we handled the trip to England, for me that's to show that type of thing.
[7:32] Yes, that would be perfect.
[7:34] And I would, I'd let them shoot television pictures of you, say a few words and so forth.
[7:39] That's very good for you, and it will hold them so well.
[7:42] Sort of consider yourselves as unofficial ambassadors.
[7:44] You've got a hell of a play in Egypt, which is nice, and New York, a little piece, and so forth and so on.
[7:54] I'm going to have them work up a talking paper for you, a reading book for you, so that you know all about it.
[8:02] I'd like to know what the people we're meeting is, a little bit about the people we're meeting, what are some good things to say about Jordan, what are some good things to say about Israel, Egypt, things like that.
[8:13] I mean, I do have arguments against them.
[8:15] Do you know what they're saying?
[8:18] I see.
[8:18] I see.
[8:19] So now...
[8:22] So I'd like to leave it with you.
[8:25] I understand Mrs. will call her up when I'm over there.
[8:35] So if you'll kind of follow up and see if that is done so that we'll know.
[8:45] Arrangements should be made for them to stay in embassies if there are ambassadors and residents.
[8:52] I haven't made the anniversaries in my month to say that they aren't residents.
[8:58] That's my guess.
[8:59] Because, you know, they're old friends of ours.
[9:01] In other cases, they may not.
[9:02] They don't have much of a residence in some of those countries.
[9:09] And then in Russia, I think they should stay in the Spasov House, of course.
[9:16] Because in terms of the places I made one change on Russia, rather than touching on it, I don't want them to go to these universities.
[9:27] I don't want them to get into dialogue and that sort of thing.
[9:30] I think probably, oh, it's not except for Moscow University.
[9:34] You should see that.
[9:40] problem at all it's a it's a great building that's on top of some marvels here it's the only one but no others not in england or anything because there are things but rather than touch them i have a semi-con that has a good feel and it has a great greater view and there you just see the great ruins you know the blue temple
[10:09] Samarkand, or the other possibility would be to go to Novosibirsk.
[10:14] No, Samarkand is more beautiful, but has more...
[10:17] I'd like to see Samarkand.
[10:18] Samarkand is the one I would recommend in Russia.
[10:22] In Leningrad, overnight, and if they have a cold there, maybe the Russians would let them stay in their guesthouse.
[10:30] They have a beautiful guesthouse.
[10:31] You should have one.
[10:32] And if it misses the rain, you might see it.
[10:38] If you go, I would do, if it's in season, do the, by all means, go to the Bolshoi.
[10:45] It's the most beautiful theater in the world.
[10:47] It's like, well, it's like the Scala.
[10:49] The other one is to do it also in Leningrad, because they're a proud of their valley.
[10:53] But in Leningrad, you must spend money on seeing Collins.
[10:57] Collins is great.
[11:00] England, well, you know, see the historical places.
[11:04] We've never seen it.
[11:05] You know all the people there.
[11:14] you know how you work on reading books and getting trips.
[11:17] If you would have worked out for them, of course, the biographical sketches and the little historical stuff and then a few little suggestions, you know, having in mind that you're writing for them rather than us as to how
[11:33] They should talk and protect themselves and so forth.
[11:36] You know, I mean, you and Hayden and the boys on the left over there in state can help too, and that's a very good investment.
[11:47] I mean, it's nice to meet them in Vienna.
[11:50] Sure.
[11:50] So, uh... We won't be going to Rome.
[11:51] We won't be going to France.
[11:53] Yeah.
[11:54] They don't want to be so busy, you know.
[11:56] And, uh, you're sure you don't want to go to Europe, incidentally, to Vienna?
[12:01] Vienna.
[12:01] Vienna.
[12:01] You're sure you don't want to...
[12:06] You don't want to go to Warsaw?
[12:09] Warsaw's not depressing.
[12:14] It's a beautiful, beautiful city.
[12:19] Well, don't go.
[12:19] Then, you're sure you don't want to go to Vienna and what about any other European?
[12:27] You've been to Spain.
[12:28] Germany?
[12:28] No.
[12:28] You'd like to stop in Germany?
[12:30] All right, fine.
[12:31] You don't want to go to Rome?
[12:33] All the shops?
[12:35] The only stop I would suggest would be to stop him at all, because you could then go to the back.
[12:42] Would you go to the back?
[12:44] Has he ever been to the back?
[12:45] No.
[12:47] This would be a good thing to do.
[12:49] Has he been to Rome?
[12:50] Has he been to Rome?
[12:51] Has he ever been to Rome?
[12:53] Don't go then if you've done it.
[12:54] Come on.
[12:55] You've been to a lot.
[13:00] I haven't.
[13:02] Then I should have been too.
[13:04] You're pretty lucky.
[13:05] Spain you've been to, Portugal you've been to.
[13:13] I think we'll do that.
[13:14] I think you've got a good schedule with that.
[13:17] And you can point out .
[13:20] And the reason they're going to these countries is either one or the other is not visited.
[13:31] Either one or the other.
[13:34] Except England, where they wanted to go for personal reasons to see some thickness before.
[13:48] I'm ready to all understand that.
[13:49] So that's .
[13:49] Also, I don't think we'll be spending much time in Jordan just by day.
[13:52] Yes, .
[13:53] Don't go with the three-day, three-day, three-day thing, which we .
[13:57] But more emphasis on Russian.
[14:03] I wouldn't put three days there.
[14:05] I'd skip Alexandria, actually.
[14:07] I think I would have them go to Cairo so they get a feel of that, and then down to the Valley of the Kings, you know, amongst them.
[14:16] And out.
[14:16] That's right.
[14:17] And out.
[14:18] So in other words, make it about two to three days there, and then tilt it a little to a little more in England and a little more in Russia.
[14:28] And then limit, obviously, you've got to limit shore to a day.
[14:32] Israel is where you really ought to spend, well, you, has he been there?
[14:38] Oh, no.
[14:38] Well, I know that there are things to see there.
[14:41] That's the point.
[14:42] I mean, it's a, it isn't, it won't be like before when you hadn't served.
[14:47] He grew up in a hotel.
[14:48] What I meant is there are the historical things.
[14:51] You've never been to the Holy Land.
[14:52] I've been to the Holy Land.
[14:54] Oh, no, that's right.
[14:55] He hasn't been.
[14:56] Well, then, then I would say that.
[14:58] I don't want to spend too much time in Israel.
[15:00] About three days.
[15:00] Yeah, well, two days.
[15:06] that's right but russia we might be able to add another country and if you do i would inform the
[15:30] Now, Daddy, do you think it would be possible not to have a minute-by-minute schedule?
[15:36] We do sort of want to avoid that.
[15:37] I know in some cases, like Russia, we'll have to.
[15:40] Russia, they will pretty much control.
[15:42] But on the other hand, if you just say, free time, free time.
[15:45] In other words, maybe they just want to go out and walk across the Hyde Park, you see.
[15:50] You'll do that, and Egypt, they'll control you pretty well.
[15:53] That would give you time.
[15:54] I think it would.
[15:57] I tell you, in England, you can be very free.
[15:59] And in Greece, you can be free.
[16:01] And in Greece, you can be very free, exactly.
[16:04] In Russia, we won't be free at all, probably.
[16:06] Russia, you shouldn't be, because that's the way they plan.
[16:09] And in Cairo, I think they'll want you to, oh, well, you should leave always in the afternoon, sensing.
[16:16] And they just go out and do what they please.
[16:17] Maybe they want to walk in the streets or go down to a market.
[16:21] In every one of these places, I would advise, rather than universities, get up early in the morning.
[16:29] Go to the market in San Marcon.
[16:31] I was there in 67 and it's fascinating, all these Asian faces, you know, and so forth.
[16:38] Just walk with the people and see what they're selling and handling and so forth and so on.
[16:44] Don't buy anything.
[16:46] All right.
[16:47] All right.
[16:47] All right.
[16:48] And if I were you, I'd cut a little off and I'd stop a couple days and go, God, nobody should ever go to Europe.
[16:56] You can miss Paris and you can miss Berlin.
[17:00] You agree?
[17:01] Absolutely.
[17:02] Rome had a wonderfully warm city.
[17:03] This is the Vatican.
[17:06] I mean, it's just Rome.
[17:08] If you go to Athens, you should go to Rome.
[17:12] It's the same human history.
[17:16] All right.
[17:16] And with the general time frame, about right.
[17:19] No, it's not right.
[17:26] have a good talk and you can work the whole thing out with her.
[17:29] And then if you would take responsibility to follow up.
[17:32] Yes.
[17:33] And also the environment people and also including Ziegler and at a proper time so that Ziegler can announce it.
[17:41] I don't want this to be handled in a way that it's not sort of okay.
[17:47] Okay.
[17:47] She'll drop in and see you a little later.
[17:49] I have a lot of things I want to ask you about.
[17:51] Okay, I'll be glad.
[17:52] Phone number out here when you're ready.
[17:58] All right, fine, fine, fine.
[18:00] Get back, get back.
[18:03] Just sit down over here.
[18:05] Yeah.
[18:07] All right, fine.
[18:11] This, about mommy's staff, does she want to keep, huh?
[18:16] You ready to go to room?
[18:18] About mommy's staff, is she going to keep this in her room or not?
[18:23] Yeah, it's up to her.
[18:28] Second.
[18:29] How does she like CODIS?
[18:30] I don't know.
[18:32] If we were to put CODIS in this office to handle the relations between the East and the West Wing, then would we have parties?
[18:40] Sort of feel around and say, I've got to have somebody.
[18:46] See, I'm taking Alex out of that here and putting him in a higher position because he's a very able call.
[18:53] But CODIS is very good.
[18:54] And the other one is Stevie Bowles.
[18:56] Does she like him?
[19:00] He might be the best.
[19:01] What would she like to do with Koda's thing?
[19:04] Should we send him the protocol and then have him available to her?
[19:09] She's been very good on her trip, you know.
[19:10] Koda should be her trip match.
[19:12] He should do the Rose Bowl there.
[19:13] That's right.
[19:14] She's getting along well.
[19:17] Well, whatever she wants.
[19:21] Is Lucy going to stay or leave?
[19:24] Yeah, I think she's going to stay.
[19:26] Good.
[19:26] She's so nice to people.
[19:32] Okay, see you later.
[19:33] Bye-bye.
[19:33] Okay.
[19:33] Oh, thank you.
[19:35] I'll send over to that girl one of the new pins.
[19:40] Oh, did you say?
[19:42] We do that for people who come into this office.
[19:48] Oh, that's nice.
[19:49] The president wants her to have that.
[19:53] Okay, good.
[19:53] Bye-bye.