Conversation 818-003

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How are you?

Nice to see you again.

Nice to see you.

He's a very kind dad, isn't he?

Sit down here.

Well, how are you getting along?

You're good or not?

Just fine, sir.

You're still right here, huh?

How are you doing?

You're learning a lot, huh?

You're learning a lot.

You don't have to worry about the back of the castle.

But I'm going to take care of the rest of that place.

What do you say to that?

I'm sorry.

Oh.

I really feel as far as what you're doing is concerned, you need no guidance.

You've got to do the little sticky things I know on the trade area.

And you've just got to hold their hands.

We're not trying to be unthreatening in the rest, but on the other hand, even if, you know, we've had our problems with Japan, we've got somehow a little, you don't hear it in Korea.

I wish you all the best.

Well, I find a lot of

or receptivity, I think there's a lot of friendship in the United States and admiration.

Right.

And personally for you, I'd say this, but frankly, there's a number of people that have said this to me, beginning with Donald Franklin.

And when you were elected, it was a tremendous number of people who came out and congratulated you.

It's mutual, I'm sure.

The greatest welcome we ever had was two million or a million and a half, I remember it was.

And they've been very kind to us.

Very warm.

Beginning with General Franco, when I presented my credentials to the community, he has an old friend.

Sure.

And the fact that I communicate with him in Spanish.

helped me as an author.

She was then the non-interpreter.

Of course, I find that most of the ministers prefer that.

Although, when I gave something formal, I would say in English, I would interpret all the nuances of the language or not.

But I haven't had too many occasions to do that, except in joint committee meetings, which I want to be sure that precise meaning of the word in English

and Spanish is conveyed, but this is done very often in foreign nations.

In fact, when Mr. Sedano talked to you in Spanish, he's a real jerk.

He's very sore.

And I can trust him.

Good.

And he's a man that, he's a hard worker.

Oh, yeah.

But once he gives his word, or at least something, I think he can rely on that.

That's what I call it.

And twice already, he has mentioned the fact that we have a special relationship with the Arabs.

We're the only country in Europe that the Arabs can trust.

And I would like to offer my good service to the United States.

I want to move towards resuming relations with the Arabs.

twice he asked me to send this information back to the department.

I thought it would be interesting to address this because I think he's sincere about it.

Good.

And he wants to be helpful.

Everyone asked me what's going to happen when Frank goes.

Yeah, of course.

I'd like to know, too.

Well, I would say it is a pleasure, yes.

I've only been there five weeks.

Therefore, I dare do it.

Sure.

Six months, maybe I would feel a little trepidation about it.

I wasn't going to make a prediction.

But I think sometimes it's first impressions of people.

Maybe sometimes these ladies are blurred.

They're trying to work you over.

If you wish to, then listen.

Sure.

I think the many things in Spain that have sort of built in favor of civility.

The Civil War is a memory that people don't want to remember.

And so they had all those things in favor of civility.

I don't know why she would say he's a gentleman.

I don't think the driver would ask him to have another revolution with Frank.

But that is what he said.

They want you to reach out to the level that they're towards.

They've never had so good.

Their progress is tremendous.

They've tripled their standard per capita income in the last 10 years.

Over $1,000 now.

$300.

10 years ago.

They've been doing an actual redistribution of income.

so that they are getting more at all levels, you know, than people just do by the way Italians do, which was another situation of the social problem.

They have a lot of smart people running the economy with fine-tuning.

They got this plan.

They're on the third four-year plan.

We still have things laid out very, very, very, very detailed.

And not only do they have the economic sector, but also the social aspects cranked into the plan.

Housing, education, all these things.

And income distribution.

So they're managing that with a lot of expertise.

And this is another factor we stand towards because we saw things

although there's some groups who really would like to see the government change.

I think, in the first place, it's not a great popular feeling we don't like this government.

There's no such thing, sir.

I think that people are getting...

They're doing pretty well.

Well, the personal, you know, what affects the man personally, and what affects 90% of the population, really,

by deterministic ideological orientation, I don't think it would do anything in the world.

And as long as it doesn't steal the name, going the wrong way, I think that it would be reluctant to support any kind of a radical change in our people.

Franco has already, as you know, announced succession, both on campus for the chief of state and Cairo for the government.

And so I think there'll be a peaceful transition, although there'll be some effort by some of the students, by some of the communists, by some of the radical socialists, by some of the workers' commissions.

Take advantage of the opportunity to get some change, but it'll be, I think, very quickly suppressed because the army will allow the police and the civil guard

to be in control of the government, at least.

And they have very, very good control.

So they won't succeed.

The other thing doesn't spread, unless a real right will make some stupid mistake, which is always human and possible, and provide some issue that will allow many of these groups to rally together.

And in which case, I think we may have a lot of problems.

But he's a very intelligent man.

He knows the trouble.

He's one of them.

There's a number.

His brother-in-law is López Rodó.

The author of the plans.

And he works in Karel Lang.

He's a plan.

And a programmer.

And he's a Karel Lang man.

Very intelligent, very capable, aesthetic.

He's a member of the Open State who have taken him by all chastity.

So his whole life is devoted to his work.

Also very influential.

He's a rival for this route.

And he is probably favored by Jeremiah.

I think, sir, that these people really believe that they must do something to get into Europe.

The common market, that's the number one thing.

That's the number one objective.

They all agree with this.

I think that they're all smart enough to realize that in order to get into the common market, they're going to have to have some liberalization.

They know that this is impossible, but Franco's alive.

They won't dare change, but once he goes, I think there will be some attempt.

Errol Franco is smart enough to go along with that.

If he doesn't, I think they'll displace him.

All these others would just be... Oh, he's smart enough to go.

I think he's smart enough to go.

All that keeps them out of Europe now is Franco.

It's too bad.

It's unfair.

You're right, sir.

I mean...

communist, nobody holds him against that, but they fought in the Civil War, but they blamed Franco because he won, and he was a communist.

Some of these folks, you know, fought in the

Oh, sure.

A lot of Americans did.

That's part of the British problem.

I think there'll be a change.

And I think they'll have to have two points of liberalization because Spain is becoming a great substantial market.

And let me know that the United States could now just take it over.

It's going to be a heck of a market, and I think we should just play it right where they go.

Yes, sir.

No reason for us not to just play it right where they go.

Europe doesn't want what we do.

I want you to be sure to press upon Franco, and Colonel Frank Franco, and Wolfgang Franco.

First, you know, the warmth and the friendship and the rest.

And I remember to tell them the greatest welcome I've had is all my years of travel abroad.

And I agree with them, and I appreciate it, and it was a welcome to the United States.

Second, that they have a friend here, that we're going to have these differences in trade policies and the rest of it.

It's not personal, it's just purely that we have to do this in order to have an even-handed policy with everybody.

And that we want to be, that we want to meet as, have the closest possible cooperation with them.

And we consider, I consider staying

You know, they all think of Europe now as four great powers.

We've got, actually, the Germans.

I mean, the Germans, the French, the Italians, the British have come up with Spain in that category, too.

That's something they like to hear.

And they say that, if you like, when you think of the great powers of Europe, they have a four-fingered hand.

It's a five-finger.

Oh, that's lovely.

I consider Spain one of the five great powers.

And because also, as I said, when I was there, in 25 years, I think Spain may well outstrip two or three of the other countries there, because they work hard.

The Spanish will work.

They've got a poor country.

God, if they only had oil, nothing could be great.

But they've taken that barren country and done an enormous amount with it.

And if they can get oil and other things and so forth, they're going to do real well.

They're doing pretty well with what they've got.

And they're well-organized.

And they're well-organized, right.

And they're competitive, intelligent people.

Intelligent, hard-working.

They're the first-class teams present.

I mean, those fellows would be first-class in any country.

On the minis, as you know, they have always wanted to play a role.

Everybody wants to be a captain and so forth.

But if you will, there's no handshake in the minis.

But just say we welcome their interest and where they have suggestions we'd like to have them.

And mainly that they ought to keep their vertical strides to the Arab countries.

That's the best thing.

So that we, for reasons of our affinity for Israel, which they all understand is necessary to a final, although politically not to a final.

I personally, there's nothing I want more than to remove or at least reduce the tensions there so that the United States can renew a friendly relationship or at least some sort of a reasonable relationship with Egypt and with the other mainstream countries that are presently

lined up basically in hostile, hostile defenses.

In other words, if it's Egypt, it's Algeria.

If it's Egypt, it's Algeria.

We won't, of course, have corrections, but we won't.

And we just reached out to Sudan, that I consider as a goal.

This is a nice message for them to pour back to their friends.

That's what I feel.

This is very, very much the company we like.

and uh but we but at the main time until we have a good they have a great power of understanding talking to them uh you know acting as a bridge uh they know that they know the problem if they say what else they came to can we squeeze the israelis in yeah he said well what about the russians and the egyptians you know i mean there's just no answer at this point but it will come it will come there's no question it can't stay there forever because

Even the Soviet Union and the United States can allow that thing to continue to fester.

There's one day that the nuts on both sides will draw sand.

Unless you think so.

That's what it's all about.

That's why we have the fleet out there.

Because that keeps the peace.

And that made it amazing.

Oh, Europeans know it.

We had that.

One of the reasons many Europeans were so concerned about it.

The last one she wants to make, the other follow-up is, when she talks about cutting down the sixth fleet and NATO and the rest, I get petrified.

I'm scared to death.

Without that fleet and all that sort of thing, that's .

Then you go back to massive retaliation.

And massive retaliation, nuclear retaliation, is not a credible policy.

where any other than a major country is involved.

Who the hell is going to go to your war?

That's the point.

They can touch the fleet, too.

That's the United States.

You can talk, but they can touch the fleet.

That's right.

I see it.

That's right.

The nuclear thing is so awesome that virtually is the point that it's not credible at all.

That's why you've got to think in more conventional terms and have an adequate convention capability in the name of the technology and the heritage of the world.

And these people would say, well,

We've got to squeeze.

If you squeeze your conventional forces down too much, then it means you don't have a credible policy for any area of the world, except in a direct conflict between the U.S. and the Soviet, or a direct conflict between the U.S. and maybe China, right?

We haven't got any tips for the others.

My wife and I just visit here and the wonderful impression they both make.

The lowest problem.

And actually, the John Franco that I wish him well and good health.

And, oh, if you see her, we're still waiting for, you see, they have grandchildren who are supposed to take a trip here now.

Well, they just had a child.

She just had a child.

He has a great-grandfather.

Great-grandfather.

Did he give up?

Yes.

Yesterday.

It was 80 years ago.

Yeah.

Well, I want to tell him that about her, particularly, she's still very sparkly.

I remember I sat by her.

She just dotes on those gradually.

our grandchild, and I said, well, they've got to come over here and tell them that I remember our conversation at dinner.

Also that I remember particularly that magnificent palace which President Eisenhower also remembers.

which has more different chandeliers than any you have not had.

That's right.

Prior to Franco's residence, for one percent of Franco, a Spanish flag was taken to the moon in the fall of 16.

May I use your name?

By all means.

Personally, I should not be alone.

Thank you very much.

Well, we wish you the very best.

I have very confidence in your handling of it, because you're guiding me for this job at this time.

We know that you will take care of it.

Thank you.