Conversation 820-011

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Well, how are you?

How are you?

I'm good, sir.

And the rest of the police?

I'm good, sir.

It's a great kid.

Remember, I want you to sit here.

I want you to sit here.

We're allowed 20 minutes.

If it's available with you, I'd like to take 15 and there's a

A personal note, I'd like to go over this for about four or five minutes if you have the time.

Sure.

Okay.

In view of the fact that it's been customary to report to you today, and because I'm acting chairman of the spirit,

I've tried to arrange it for a week to keep informed.

I think we have a lot of good news, but to make a long story short, I'm going to have Doug fill you in on some of the activities.

Since I've been involved, I've insisted that we have an office so that we know how we're doing.

I've insisted that we check into business administration.

And I find things very wholesome, but they need taking.

I'm gonna give a few measures.

As far as office personnel, we have very fine people, but we've got too many of them in Washington.

They should be out in the regions.

So what I'm trying to say is that a terrific job has been done, as Doug can tell you, or if he prefers, I'll be glad to do it.

But like any growing organization that grows quickly,

you have your problems and mushroom as we have.

We've deviated, in my opinion, from the basic concept, specifically, of support, primary support, from the people, although we have had support, and since I've been in, I've been able to bring in monies for those who've been delinquent and not meeting their obligations, and I think that I'll be able to pull in the last remaining three.

Now, we have some very good news, as you probably know, with George Romney being very, very interested.

And Mr. Romney has discussed it with you.

He seems to be all excited, all enthused.

And I think we have something if things go through the way we hope they will, as far as George lining up with us.

And so the future is exceedingly bright.

The actual results will speak for themselves.

There's something for which we can all be very, very proud, regardless of what we read in the papers, where there's criticism one way or the other, and they will directly speak for themselves.

So I think, because we're short of some time, that you could bring up some several factors.

And I do have considerable material, but I know

and I can send it to you or leave it with you, plus a short synopsis of a double-spaced page or two so you can get a feel, but I think this is the ideal way to do it, okay?

We're now 200 voluntary action centers strong.

We're in 58, 60 largest cities in the United States.

We've gone from about 150 six months ago, just after I took over, to this 200.

We've been able to activate and motivate people to start on a local level, start taking a real interest and concern in what goes on in their community.

We hope it's a real start of what we like to call citizen participation.

from the roots right up to Washington, to their city hall, to the state house, or to any of the local agencies or private that they find.

Now, our goals are exceedingly high, and they are kind of like motherhood for countries with a flag.

A lot of people

seem to think, well, you know, that's kind of old-fashioned.

We don't quite understand.

It's too nervous.

I have to say, without a career of contradiction, that unfortunately, the leadership that we started off with, with the exception of a few people like Quinn, Bob Finch, Mrs. Joyce Black,

Leo Perlis, the head of LCIO, there must be five or ten more of them that I think I have to mention the real key one.

Without that sort of ingredient, we just haven't had the strong support from the private sector that we need.

to make this thing a sustained, ongoing sort of product.

Now, this is the reason that Clem and I have been trying to work so closely together to make this next step a successful one, which is to get

Private came just back into this, and you were very generous about a year ago, meeting with Henry Ford and Ed Edmonton to help us with a million dollar grant that comes with action.

Now this was a life saver, but yet it decries the basic thing that we're trying to do, to do it privately.

And we can't live without it.

We didn't start this for long, never.

And everything we've done is for nothing.

The purpose is to get people to live.

Well, one of our difficulties is that we have not used the power of our board of directors.

We've got the most wonderful board of directors that we would really communicate with, but there's been a change of chairmanship.

In other words, George Brown recognizes it, I recognize it, and many of the directors are just

figuratively crying for an opportunity to get into action.

So it's a matter of communications, all of which will be straightened out this coming year.

As soon as George gets it.

Yeah, George Rose.

Yeah, he's got to work out a deal with the coalition.

That's, yeah, that goes, yeah.

I'd like to just present one caveat as far as George's coming with us, because he was the guy that I uncovered through the .

There is a problem, and maybe just a legal technicality that we must consider.

And that is, if we want to get strong in the view of advocacy, like George wants to do, and I'd like to see the Center involved in,

we may have some difficulty with our special tax record, 501c.

That's nothing that the President of the United States should be concerned about, but George has to kind of reconcile that position with our special niche.

Well, in that case, what we do is run the two organizations in the chairman of each, so that could be handled.

It's going to have to separate them, right?

George is basically an evangelist.

And that's what we need in this movement.

He needs an evangelist here, but he'll also need an evangelist for his advocacy, too.

And he can do that, too.

But the main thing is that if two organizations manage to avoid the tax monarchy, you're absolutely right.

But he ought to see that.

He'll see that.

That's a very tough problem.

I know exactly what you mean.

But I'm very, very bullish on America and bullish on the National Center.

I think we've come a long way in three years.

I think we got, we struggled, and I think that it probably is one of the two or three key issues that Hunter and I were talking about with Clem that may make the difference in making this nation holy.

The one thing we do know, and the response to our national advertising program on TV, that people are starting to turn on, and they recognize this challenge, and they're

I don't want to sound like I'm running for election, but I can't help but think that America is ready to accept this challenge.

Again, very good.

I think that's it.

That was my connection right there.

I just said the right handbook.

Because, you know, television has it on football.

Television has it on drugs.

It was the year before it was announced.

That suddenly drove people off.

But to see these athletes come along, a volunteer action, I mean, if that isn't

Those guys come on, they look sincere, and they show Willie Wood, and all those fellows out there working with the young black kids, and they show the gentleman working with the Mexicans.

Those are marvels, I've heard of them.

They're marvelous.

One of the key ingredients, and this was, I'd like to say, was my idea, but two or three of us thought of it.

was that every one of those guys is really an honest-to-guys volunteer.

He is talking about something that he does himself.

And we developed that that way.

It may be a guy who's committed as an actor.

That's right.

And we felt that there may have been a sense of responsibility.

I can tell from my own 11-year-old that he's pretty bossy about most things.

Last night we were watching the Jets game, and so he said, he's a very good act.

I said, I'm going to be at a meeting tomorrow to do a voluntary act.

He said, well, that's very good.

And he met Jim Plunkett and Schmidt, and we're all about an understanding of the Jets.

Sure.

That he doesn't have a funeral, but he doesn't have a husband.

Good, all right.

You've got to motivate, not how you organize it.

I don't think it's going to be as great a problem as it seems to because we have the people who want to.

We do have enough of the offices and we have this wonderful situation now where

in the smaller areas they want to get involved.

And just to save time, I think what the ideal thing would be for us to send you a complete report and then perhaps a couple of pages of synopsis so that you can take it up with the President.

You may have some specific questions.

We don't want to overburden your time here.

Right.

And we're having a meeting with him, I believe it's today, no, tomorrow at 10 o'clock.

And with Mr. Ellington.

I think we can.

And the reason I say that is because we've talked this over.

I see no conflict.

And with the kind of a staff we have, the proficiency of the staff, there's no reason why he can't handle two organizations.

If the President of the United States can handle all the organizations he handled, there's no reason why George Romney couldn't handle two.

He's an ideal man.

Oh, yes.

He's a deep believer.

Deep believer.

You know, the one point which I know you're seeking and it's very hard to find is maybe two or three of the most.

projects that everybody can grab ahold of and say, this is what we're doing.

Everybody's in a volunteer action to help out.

So they, everybody thinks that's great, gee, wouldn't it be great to help?

And I say, how, what, what are we helping you do?

And they, you know, we had to develop a program one year, which is not understood by some people.

It was a good program, I don't know what the hell it is.

What I'm getting at is that

I know you've been searching, but you could get something, you could hang on to it and say, this is it.

Another thing, it doesn't have to be, you can have 50 others, but there ought to be one or two that everybody would say that, as a volunteer, I am doing this to help this country, a better country or something.

And it's gotta be something rather tangible, rather hard, that they can fight into.

so that they feel that they have a goal.

But let me put it another way.

In elections, using the example

After every election, people who have engaged in it, volunteers on the organization side and so forth, say, now listen, this was a great effort, let's keep it going.

And I say, why do we keep it going?

Well, we want to build the organization.

And it has never been succeeded.

Democrats have tried it after their elections, and Republicans have tried it after theirs, and it has never succeeded.

The only way you can motivate people to do things and to organize and to keep going, they will not do it for the sake of an organization.

They will do it for the sake of a goal, a man or a goal.

Usually in an election, it's a man.

You've got to have a goal.

The idea being, I've got to, we've got to elect this man in this election, and then everybody will be motivated and volunteers and so on and so on.

But if they say, we've got, our goal is to build a great organization, they will not do it.

You can go back, take even such a horrible example as Hitler.

Hitler had never succeeded by simply building the Nazi party as a goal, but he could build, because Hitler was a symbol, the leader of the same, through all organizations throughout history.

There's got to be a goal.

In the case of the volunteers, simply saying, gee, I'm going to be a volunteer is not a goal as an organization.

It's gotta be volunteer for a while.

Well, make kids read, help them to read, or to help to feed them, or to get them Christmas baskets, or to get them, of course, there are many bigger things.

I don't know what it is.

Well, you've already given the answer.

I hope, because you've got to have one simple goal out there, not one or two or three, whereby people say, the National Center for Volunteer Action makes it possible for you to help.

Help why?

Help do what?

You help kids.

What do kids need?

I mean, what do they do?

Keep them off of drugs?

All right, that's not bad.

You see what I'm getting at?

I know you're seeking it, but I know it's hard.

No, it's the pregnancy.

It's all right.

it really set the goal back in 68.

And that is a concept of motivating individuals to learn how to motivate themselves to desirable ends as against relying upon the state, the city, or anyone else.

In other words, it's not an initiative.

Whether it's in the field of character building,

whether it's in the field of any specific activity.

There must be a selfish interest as well as an altruistic interest.

And the people who, and we have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans who are devoting their time to helping others, and they automatically help themselves.

And that's why when you have a man like George Romney, who's an idealist,

This is what we have to get back to is our idealism.

Just one situation with Christmas baskets, that's nice, but the man inside has to change, the child has to change, and you've set the, as I see it, you've set the objective, the essence.

As long as we have the essence, the rest is easy to develop.

And as you pointed out,

Practically, perhaps it's going too far to say every problem, but so many of our problems have already been solved somewhere.

And now it's our job to communicate the principles involved so that others can use them.

And that is one of the goals we have.

Whether it's in mental health, whether the big thing today is prevention.

We have to reach through the school systems to prevent mental illness, to prevent these youngsters not getting the motivation for developing good character

and so forth, how to do that for themselves, how to study, and so forth and so on.

And all of this is known, and all of this can be, and again, incidentally, whether it's in what the techniques in prison rehabilitation work, the same techniques will work in the prevention of these unfortunate youngsters who are in that environment from landing in prison.

So that the hope to me

can be brought into reality.

And the reason I say that is because it's being done in many instances.

And we can get specifics in numbers.

In my own organization, we're operating in 150 prisons at present time.

We can prove that we can reduce recidivism down to 15%.

For those who will take the courses, and we do that, our foundation does that at no cost to the public.

Now some of the states are taking over because no foundation has enough money to carry on for the entire world.

We can get things started.

We'll furnish the teachers.

We'll furnish the instruction.

But there are also other organizations.

other individuals who have found the secret of getting results, the same way that the teenage narcotics, the teenage alcoholic.

So that we do have, we do have the essence of the thing that really counts.

And that's why I say it's in good George Romney, because there are certain individuals who are not idealists, they only look at that which, so that seems practical, but the man who has experience knows that the idealist can be a practical man.

Glenn, let me ask you a question.

Isn't there a danger in view of the kind of feeling that you've identified out in the country where people want to do things, do things for themselves, and really carry out what the President's been talking about, kind of decentralized decision-making where people take part in things themselves?

Is there a gain in having the national center state some particular goals that communities should, or individuals should undertake to carry out, rather than having the individuals or communities themselves decide what they want to do?

The individuals and the communities should decide for themselves.

But the individual, how many persons know how to prevent mental illness?

How many persons know how to make a good scholar out of a poor student?

as long as that information can be communicated and proved.

So what you do is make this, it's a matter of communications.

That's the big thing, make this information available.

This is not theory.

This is improved, improved, improved.

So that's the wonderful value, because if you're only gonna have specifics,

Is that something else?

Let me ask Glenn.

What's very simply, as I understand, the need to actually continue the presidential assistance, administration assistance, and I mean cooperation and help.

And so we'll do all we can.

I don't know, I can't, I'm just specific, so I understand.

Yeah, I would suggest this.

I don't, to the extent that I can participate in anything, I don't have to be relevant.

I would suggest this, number one,

nothing at the moment until we decide whether George is going to take over.

He's a practical man, and that we take a good look.

The staff has done a terrific job.

We have Brady Power and our board of directors, but we haven't called them.

The board of directors should be fiscally responsible for this organization.

Let me add one thing to a small point.

That's a...

The people, the most frustrated people in this world

When wives are very intelligent, they can have careers, get married, and all sorts of items to take care of.

They don't have to wash the clothes anymore.

They don't have to wash the dishes anymore.

They can sweep her over and so forth and so on.

And they think, why the hell did I go and get a master's degree in philosophy?

So they're frustrated and that's why they made the moves and a lot of other things worse.

So, now, also, women are a potential, enormous sense of volunteers because they want to do something.

They want to do something useful.

And I would hope that the next series of ads you would use for women

You see, that's the only weakness they saw in the ad program.

Actually, you know, she doesn't care.

The point is, women desperately need to be wanted.

They need to be, I mean, like Mrs. Romney, it's fantastic.

She is in, there's a couple in the world that are better, they do a great job.

And I know my wife likes to go out and do volunteer things.

my two daughters and this and that, and we all have that.

But basically, tap the women.

The women want the help.

And they can be the very great assistants.

And get them jobs, jobs that are real.

Because we have a follow-on campaign.

Oh, you have.

And it's going to do exactly that, sir.

But if you could use the ads to...

The ads will change completely.

We have these football players.

And now we go to the logo campaign that starts January 15th.

It will emphasize, of course, all citizens, but not just men.

I thought of all these things you think of and so forth, but you've also got to think in terms of volunteers and actually in terms of the disadvantaged, particularly the blacks and the Mexicans and so forth.

However, we have to remember that while the percentage of disadvantaged from those groups is the highest, that if you were to look over the whole country, there are more disadvantaged

whites or non-colors in there and the others.

And I think it's very important not to allow a volunteerism program to appear to be one that's just for the purpose of injecting, frankly, the race issue.

And if you do, you're going to set up an anti-racist business and a whole deal.

I mean, it gets with coloration.

I just, my view, I think it's very important, it's terribly important to be sure that you get people

It's good for people to be indoctrinated on race issues properly, but you've got to do it simply.

You can't make it appear that, well, this whole thing, nobody cares about any disadvantaged person unless he's black.

You've got to make it appear that, well, now and then a white child is also disadvantaged and needs a little help.

That's why the pumpkin thing was good, because you got a few Mexicans there.

that otherwise intends to be totally black.

You see, I think this is important, or otherwise you're gonna hurt the black side.

There's this, I can see this in the second.

Don't you agree, Larry?

I was wondering about the coalition.

It would be very, it will be called home as the head of the coalition.

It's very able to follow, but that's where you're, that's where the balance, the balance at all, the balance at all, remembering that in this country, there are just an awful lot of people that need help, and there are all the people that, all of the,

We all know, I must say, that it's a major problem, and it's a wonderful thing.

Well, that's the advantage of recognizing, regardless of their color, they have a brain and a nervous system, and therefore, the concept of motivating them in the art of motivating themselves to high goals, high achievement, and the right attitudes.

I think you'll be very pleased with what has been done, and you'll be very pleased with the programs now that we've determined.

I'm amazed you've been able to hang on for three years.

It's really been marvelous.

Thanks to Clemson, it's not only great, but we have great resources.

There's one point you asked, and maybe I can add to this short, but you might be able to do so.

We have a continuing problem in competition with action.

And these are minor things in a lot of ways, but areas where we're sure, for example, the National Student Volunteer Program, we can do 150% better done job at 10% of the costs.

Well, let's get them the hell out of it then.

This is one thing that we can't get it away from.

Legitimately, we have to try to bring this sort of thing to bear.

Students are the best volunteers that we have.

They all want to get turned on.

Now, this is one thing that I would suggest to me that Leonard and I could talk through.

All right, now, do you understand my feelings about action?

Certainly not.

I'm very clear about that.

It is a horrible thing where I go.

The purpose of it is to hire people, rather than to inspire people to do things.

Now, I was given instructions two years ago to flush that thing.

Now, damn it, I want to flush.

I'm going to flush it, and the next flush is out.

Is that clear?

Out.

to stop this business.

We can do several things.

Now, what's your time limitations, if I'm going to have that?

Yeah, we've got a few people waiting, and I don't know if we can get whatever time you want.

Well, may I ask, if we meet and get together, do you know when?

I'm going to be here all day tomorrow, and I'd like to go over to the office.

Thank you, sir.

I appreciate that very much.

Could I see you after you get through with here?

We've got a whole range.

Yeah, let's do the go over with you.

Well, let's call 30, all right?

We have a little embarrassing situation.

So I can quickly tell you what the setup is.

When Maurice Stans in 1968 asked what we wanted, I said only one thing.

Good government.

And we've had it.

For the last two and a half years, the English press, there must have been, over this period, a good, at least 11 or 12.

About a bad five or so.

Yeah.

And I know I wouldn't take it for a reason, the principle.

But I didn't want you to feel obligated in any way whatsoever, except for one thing, good government.

Then when the American press took it up, and then when Mr.

Ambassador Tenenberger came to the United States in the first year, and then later on, I got thinking about this.

I wouldn't want, the honor would be great, but that's not important.

As it is, over in Great Britain, first of all, Prince Philip has invited me over to St. James to meet with philanthropists over there on techniques for raising funds for philanthropies.

We've supported the Anna Freud Foundation.

The government doesn't have the money for computers, so I've furnished computers to the Bird Neurological Institute down at Crystal Lincoln, which they have, I think, the greatest of all brain specialists.

We're interested in this mental health

The Boys Clubs of Great Britain, we brought their leaders over here, we sent our leaders over there, we sent kids over here, we sent kids over there.

When the summer, the International Council of Educators for Teaching had their convention from 42 countries, I was the only layman invited over there at the University of London.

I can go on and on and on.

So we've had some last years, and I decided, well, if my objective, and it is my objective, to change this world, make it a better world for this and future generations, maybe that is the spot.

So when the press has asked me in recent months, I said, well, I'm the NASA president.

If he thought I was the man for the job, I would certainly consider him, and I think I could do a terrific job.

Now, my problem is this.

If I'm not in the running, please believe me, I'll lose no esteem.

It'll work just as hard.

On the other hand, if I could get the job, and as long as I did a good job, any time that I didn't, I just feel one other thing.

I felt all my adult life that we must have a strong image.

We must have a strong United Kingdom, and they must have a strong U.S. On the other hand, they have a philosophy.

For example, members of Parliament on both conservative and labor have come to me and said, how can you help our people?

How can you help us with these concepts?

Because the thing that's ruining England is the thing that has harmed this country, the influence of labor.

where they don't do a good day's work, and I want two days paid.

So my question is simply this.

Please don't think I'll lose any esteem.

If I'm not in running, I just don't want to... Every time it seems the report seeks me on some other...

Let me tell you what the present plan is so that you will know.

At the present plan, I want to keep Ann Arbor there because we have the European Security Conference coming up in July.

And the European Security Council immediately followed the Soviet design.

And with Europe going into the market, that's why I'm going to keep you there through the year, very good.

Now, what we do after that, I'll have to determine.

Let me say, I told Maureen, I said it basically, that as far as you were concerned, that any maintenance

that no one had done more than you had, if you didn't want to count it, in 1968, as well as in 1972.

And I'm aware of that.

At the present time, the way I think we ought to handle it, so that there wouldn't be any, so that we would be in a position to take a look at it, at everything, and just, I think you should handle it and say that, at the present time, that you

You do not plan to accept any government position or anything that you kind of put in terms of government.

Yes.

But do you have a volunteer to continue to serve at the President's request?

several, uh, several volunteer activities that are, that are non-political in character, non-political in character, I would say.

So I keep, so we keep politics on it very good, and, uh, because, uh, next year everybody's going to be here rushing after you to try to finance their campaigns, and I think it's time for some others to start getting their money out of the community and put it on here.

And with the National Center, let us see what we can do.

I think if you could say that you're tremendously interested in the National Center, if you don't mind.

No.

But you're going to continue to support that by requesting that you are not, at the present time, considering any governmental assignment

As a matter of fact, you can say, you might put it this way.

You can say that at the present time that you did not see anything that you would like to undertake at this time.

That way it doesn't look as if we, that there was a situation where you came in and said, look, it might not be Ambassador Andrew.

And I said, no, we can just, I just let it say that you understand that Ambassador Andrew will continue as ambassador this time.

You're delighted that he is.

You said you're delighted.

So if at the present time there's nothing else that you'd like to be considered for at some time in the future, you might.

But this is not the time to discuss it.

In the meantime, you're going to work with the president as his close confidant and on these other ends.

You can also say it that way, because I don't want him to lose any faith in this.

That'd be such a terrible thing after all we've done.

And yet we don't want to get ourselves in a box where it looks like we've done something.

Well, that's fair enough.

That's not perfect.

This is not how I want you to do it.

Well, that's all I can do.

I've been waiting for you for a long time.

Thank you for letting me get your son-in-law out there.

He did a great job.

He worked for Colson.

I must say, what you did

Boy, that little group that met one day, we all get together after it's calmed down a bit.

look back over it, but to think that after all, where we began, we end up with 61% of the world.

That's something.

It really is.

Thank you so much.

Well, it's good to see you.

I'm very glad to have you.

Thank you.

Merry Christmas to you.

You and me look back on doing good things for this country.

Well, we're very proud of what has... You have a good heart.

Well, thank you.

Good heart.

Thank you.