Nixon, Haldeman & Eisenhower on White House reorganization

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You will look that off.

Right, yeah.

I don't want to .

I want to walk there.

Yeah, good, good, good.

Great.

Yeah.

Great, but you invited her.

Fine, but she'll go on the plane with you, but just be sure she was invited because .

Yeah, and they're saying we want to have her for dinner, so there won't be any bitching around.

Good, good, good, good.

How about .

All right.

Good.

That's great.

Good to see you.

That's right.

I think you're going to be like Trace.

Tonight?

Oh, by all means.

By all means.

OK, tonight.

Fine.

How are you doing on the refrigerator?

OK. Julie, can you call me while I'm sitting here?

I've returned the call to Pat.

She said, you know, could you talk to Ron?

I said, yes, I'd like to talk to the president.

And she said, well, I think if you could do it, then you should talk to Connie Hennison, the one that I'd be delighted to.

And she said, how would you do it?

I said, I'd explain that we're cutting back and all that, that Mrs. Nixon thought that she basically can handle it.

overall management over there now because she's without the campaign and without the girls around her and the need to tie their skateboards in and all that, that we could reduce that.

And she thought this was a good time to make the change.

And we're making all these major changes over on this side, cutting things back 50%, which we can't do as much of as we could do this and all.

And she said that would be fine.

And she agreed with that approach and said that was very good.

And she said, just be sure to be nice to her, that, you know, I don't want her, I like Connie, you know, a lot.

And I said, I understood, that I thought Connie would understand.

And I think she will.

I think Connie is a strong girl.

She's a tough broad who will probably figure, you know, it's a good time to get out anyway.

I really don't think there'll be a problem.

She'll understand this is a good time.

She could say she's finished her work.

That's right.

Great.

So...

She said you could tell her that Julie would be available as a volunteer to help.

And I said I don't think I ought to raise Julie in this context at all.

Julie was obviously there .

I heard something out on the research that would allow you to make a 50% recovery.

I noticed, for example, that Noel Cope is one of the functions, and there are other very good line people, Dave Gergen and a lot of other people like that, all sitting over there together.

We know who the good men are and so forth.

Put them out in departments.

Have them out there so we can have counselors in, we can have speech writers in, and put them out in departments.

a sign to them, say, you can call somebody up who's working in the Interior Department and say, well, would you work on the remarks of the president tonight?

Or even him come in.

You know what I mean?

With the understanding in the department that the White House has first called for our purposes.

That's exactly what we're planning to do.

Ray is concerned that it's, you know, that it's

I don't know.

Ray wants to hold people around.

So I disagree.

I think you guys getting out of the department, so you give them a little more new blood.

You also want a bunch of people to sit around and do this and that and the other thing.

You know what I mean?

I just think Ray is used to working with big staffs.

We're going to stop that.

Who's going to be the editor?

Ray's going to be the editor.

You can't be.

Okay.

Well, you had to find Ray, so that's good.

I mean, quite often, I mean, they really don't break the thing up at all.

They can have offices there and everything.

They can have offices right there.

I don't mind that a bit.

They are presidential people, but out in the department, then they come in and, you know what I mean, let's face it, we don't have to take every goddamn thing and have this one or that one or the other one.

We've got instant communication.

They can put it on the teletype.

They can work things out.

No bribery is made by assuming a speechwriter for me.

No, unless there's something.

Roger's raised an interesting thing.

He asked if we would be averse to Sapphire going over the state as their assistant secretary for public affairs or whatever it is.

And apparently he had talked to them.

And Sapphire had an interest in doing that.

Which may not be bad.

He also said, I thought Sapphire was going to write a book.

He also said that he is... Oh, one thing, he suggested McComber for turkey, which is what McComber would like to do.

He's a loyal guy.

I mean, he's a better guy over there, apparently.

And he got it with Doc.

Yeah, good man.

So that was one possibility.

He also...

No, I mean, that's a massive satellite.

What the hell is he going to do over there?

I mean, I, uh...

It's the...

It'll be loyal to us, that's for sure.

Where is the...

It's approaching us.

We're moving in.

It's going to do the... Who the hell is going to do the book?

So we're going to... We have... We have nobody.

Oh, forget it.

Christ, nobody can write that.

They do the book.

Nobody.

Nobody we have can.

They do the book over there?

No.

No, no, no.

They can't.

That's a full-time job.

Well, let's see what...

I'm not sure you really want a first-time, first-term vote.

I'm not sure.

There's some pluses, but there's some...

I wouldn't go overboard to get one.

Well, I would go overboard to get a staff order, although... That's right.

A lot of...

Nothing ended at the end of the first term.

There isn't any cut-off there.

There is an election, and it gives you an artificial point to...

It's a very good story.

Well, there are a lot of good stories.

...on the first term.

A book should be written called 1972.

That is a hell of a good book.

And somebody should have thought of it.

That should be on its way.

It should either be a monograph or a book.

If you get it in China, if you get it in Russia, if you get it in May, if you get it in the election, and it's a hell of a damn year, that's what I'd write as a book in 1972.

We've got to give up.

Ray will define as a philosopher, but he's not really much good around, basically, except to, you know, to, I mean, it'll come, but it'll come painfully, and usually too late.

But let's just hold for the best.

As far as the speechwriter is concerned, let me say, forget the speechwriter.

I'll try this, frankly, to devote my time to some of that.

Although I hate my character though, it's such hard work.

But gotten that letter right.

Now we're going, what are we going to do?

Take a list and ask them to make her the chief letter writer.

That would be good.

And move a couple others of her type into doing that kind of thing.

Don't hurt Pam Olsen's feelings.

But she's dumb.

She'd be one of the couple others really because she's awfully good.

And she really is.

Not at the kind of, not at the high level.

She's great with kids by the way.

But unless it has to, they can do the elegant stuff, too.

Well, that's what the Johnson people do.

Tom Johnson.

All right.

Tom Johnson is considered coming.

He's interested.

He's interested in the artist.

I was impressed by Charlie Schneider when I was pressed in.

I could see why the Walls people do well.

And he looks like our young guys.

Sharp, choppy, crude government.

You've got to, I mean, believe me, that kind of talent is hard to find.

You know, it's not soft-headed and flabby and wants to sit around and talk about the big picture.

It's the kind of talent that wants to say, well, how the hell do we win a mission if we can get it done again?

You know, maybe you should get back to that Barrett's and I can't.

Or Julie, you should do it.

You know, I don't know.

I don't think you've got to prove that for her that night.

Julia said, I like both crowds, but she said that the crowd last night, this night, was a much warmer crowd.

It's a much nicer crowd.

She said they were so happy to be here.

She said they were such good people.

They were such good Americans.

They were so emotional.

And I said, well, there you see the difference between Republicans

Republicans and those who supported us.

And I said, most Republicans would not accept any of those people in their house.

And I said, but it was very interesting.

They saw my price assumption.

It's really true, Bob.

I respect the people.

We have our varietals, our whiners, pitchers, complainers, coffee types, you know what I mean?

Yep.

I must say, there are exceptions.

I was down at the rest of some of the Californians here tonight.

I know they came in groups of people like that.

There are some.

We've got some.

Generally speaking, if you go around the country, your general republic, and it's a pitcher, the negative is whining faster.

We have another batch tonight.

Just like last night.

Chuck, the L.A. John, you know, who they've got in the city.

Christ.

Cross-section.

Talk all over the place, you know, about Chuck's statements and so forth.

Show me another body of the White House staff that would have done that.

That's what George Shultz would have done.

That's what Hodgson would have done.

Hell no.

No, that was so great.

He did a hell of a job.

I...

The other problem is I say, I really don't know what Democratic leaders I should sit here and talk to or something.

Maybe I should talk to people on the phone.

Maybe that would be a good idea.

I think what I will do, give me a list of key Democratic leaders that I can call and make a list of small students.

That would be a very good idea.

I don't know.

Got your hand?

Yeah.

That's one thing that would be good.

Now, I don't want this to listen to people.

As far as the old friends stuff and so forth, I think about for the inauguration and everything, we're doing enough there for our friends.

We do agree with the glen stones and the back wall caves, et cetera.

Or do you think we should call them on Christmas too?

I don't think so.

I think this should be a seminal business of getting to the legislating leaders to pull that it off and be free and so forth.

Isn't that a pretty good way for me to never resign my conferences with Paul?

I mean, just take about 15 or so minutes.

I don't want to fight around with any of the House people except those of very, very important.

You know, I see Dole Water because he ran for president because he pitches unless he does speak.

I don't want to go down the line of Wally Bennett because he's 80 years of age.

I may have to be called, but I don't want to predict it.

I'll be honest, I want the Democrats covered.

They have to be covered.

But some Christmas calls, I think, could be useful.

Now, the way that it worked for Julia Carson, when she is here, too, is that we'll deal with situations, and I finally got somebody now that I can

It's like you can't do it without your Steve or anybody like that.

Steve is very subtle and nice.

You know, like, trying to work it out, like, you see, Rose is trying to get Pat to have a fighter over to dinner.

Like, you want to go to, or get Mrs. Longworth set up, because I've been trying to get Pat to have Mrs. Longworth set up, and she's procrastinating, and so on.

And she has a little bit of people who got Lucy to call her and set up a date and so forth.

But you see,

The way you've done it here previously, it's not through a memorandum, and all of a sudden I say, what the hell is this memorandum from the West Wing?

He says, it doesn't work.

It doesn't work.

The call doesn't need it.

It's just, you're absolutely right.

Abby Dooley is just, they'll be so, so you know, I don't know, I don't think we will hear from Anne Armstrong.

She's going to talk to her family.

Then she wants to talk to me before she goes back home.

She doesn't go home on Sunday.

Then she wants to talk to him when she gets home.

I guess that's a thought.

It would be very nice to have her have a talk with Julie before she goes.

That would be useful or not.

It's too early.

Maybe not.

Julie, don't get me confused.

The point is that she's not going to talk to you again.

She's not going to talk to her family.

And then come back and tell you whether she does it or not.

She'll do it.

Do you think she's back to do it?

Oh, yeah.

If we can work it.

Her only hang, she'll do anything that she feels is useful.

If she feels useful, it's what you tell her is useful.

As long as she can have the time flexibility so that she can have

It's going to be a brutal assignment.

It's going to be a period of several months where we're just bombing.

Okay, she wants to have the same path, uh, at which she's got to go tell all the ladies we can't do it like that, where they can't.

You remember Bob?

He said, okay, put this down with your little black hat.

I cannot, again, go walking out to that goddamn hall and talk to those people again.

It cannot be done.

It's like I played it into Henry this morning.

I said, Henry, this idea of not on television and doing a certain thing, that's all over.

He said, yes, I was wrong on that.

I was wrong.

I don't know how many other people were wrong.

I think various things.

Maybe he worked on it pretty hard.

He was very aware of it.

And maybe he just finds solitude.

I think it's a combination of all.

But I think he didn't just

As a result of the, well it was done, and he did see the light.

He had to.

Julie didn't understand the scat.

God damn it, she'll be out of my help over there.

She just won't get over it.

Just remove a terrible dirge which we have.

And that's part of the thing that's about the end of relations between Henry and State.

I just want to remove the irritant.

Once we get Rush in there, if we take Rush, there'll be one irritant gone if we run the government a little better with Richardson.

There'll be one irritant gone, perhaps, with Laird on private plays during the goddamn games.

And I can remove all the irritants.

But you know, Robbie is, at least the grandkirk, whatever it's worth, is going to be hating himself.

He doesn't know anything.

And so, gosh, I don't know what he thinks.

Then all of a sudden, you've got two of you, far greater degree than before.

You know that?

That's right.

It's really the problem of getting a hold of this government going around here, and our relations with the Congress, and our relations with the governor.

Boy, now is the time to lay it down.

That's why I believe that earlier this year, my idea was to start with change, to go down to see Holton, before Holton came in with the mansion.

But I think when they said that, it really was, now we'll get ahold of him and hold him.

But these down-to-earth governors, I'm just not going to, what the hell good does it do?

It's a quarterly meeting with the Republican governors.

It's absurd.

What the hell good does it do?

Nothing.

I mean, you ought to have a governor sometime.

I'm not going to have a governor at some point.

I'm not going to have a governor.

Yes, I guess I am.

I'm not able to do it.

No, no time.

Yeah, that dinner, I mean, it's not a dinner.

It's an entertainment, I guess, is what we got from seeing it.

It's not a loose end.

It finally turns out we have four hundred balls now.

Four or five.

Then we shouldn't just give up the Kennedy Center and let it go to the little hotels with the whole thing.

Because it's better.

It's a much better setup.

Where probably other balls would be nice.

Oh, yeah.

Much better.

No, no.

They're at the Smithsonian.

All the airs are at the different Smithsonian places.

They can do a much nicer job there than they can in the hotels.

What is your view as to how we use price in this kind of thing, in terms of how I do about the government?

I mean, it's the only kind of thing, price and around, who thought it was a piece of stuff.

And there's, we've got to get the hell out of the peace thing now out of here, due to the fact that we may not, we may be doing some pretty tough things on Vietnam.

And then, well, I don't think it's going to make that much difference.

As a matter of fact, it's all we're going to be doing in this campaign is bombing until we get our prisoners back.

At that point.

did a spab at an inaugural address, which I've got, if you want to take a look at it.

Who?

Bruce Hershenson.

I just had him do it out of the blue with no guidance at all.

I just said, write what you think ought to be the inaugural address.

All right.

And it's kind of interesting.

He's good.

He's good at everything.

He's good at everything like that, that I can take with me to Florida.

Okay.

And I'll get to work on it.

Okay.

I mean, I don't want $30,000 to have to report it.

That was too much.

I guess I haven't got that much time to put it in.

I've got to put the time to run it.

I've got that government.

No.

I want one of about $2,000 original.

If they've ever read the second thing off your address, it's TRs and FDRs.

They are brief.

Brief.

Got it?

Who else do you see as a writer?

I think House Philosopher is good for him.

He'll tilt it too far to the left, but on the other hand, by getting the arrow at the time, the current will pull it back to the right.

That's what I think will help there.

You can pull right back to the right, and we can use a little leftward tilt just to keep looking at something.

But he will be left.

So the main thing is don't get him so far up, at least on mushy oil.

Because the difficulty with the Ray Price speeches, generally, is that they, frankly, are sappy and mushy.

And it's the kind of thing that appeals to a constituency that we do not win.

Who else is going to do something?

I think we're going to have to separate, you know.

Just because you're making some idea, it's 800 words.

Actually, if we look at the 52nd level, we're going to be talking about 2,000 words, absolute, maximum, absolute.

Now, that would mean that that's going to happen.

I'll get you the word count later.

I'll get my book out and I'm going to count Wilson's second, not Wilson's, but TR's and FDR's second.

And I'm sure they were in that bell mark.

Got a little problem when I come to the Congress now with the Vietnam thing.

I don't think we should do it.

What do you think?

Or maybe we should.

I don't know.

We'll see if we can have a reaction.

I'm sure it will, you know, I haven't said anything about it.

I don't think it should be even a real possibility until after the first meeting.

Congress is back.

We'll see how it goes after they're in.

Right.

See how things...

start to look, and they look okay.

It's going to be very difficult, I don't know, but we have it at its worst.

I finally got Henry and Henry to do a submission debate.

I said, Henry, all right.

And we cracked for a couple of weeks, not a little.

I said, ten.

And maybe that'll get us a settlement.

Not a little settlement, a whole ball.

Put his name on it.

I said, then, Coiler, we have got to make a new offer.

And that offer must be POWs for total American withdrawal and stopping the mine.

And, of course, continuing to eat something not to the extent that the art is being eaten by their own people.

Now,

In fact, we wouldn't say the latter at all, but we'd simply say that lawful withdrawal.

Now let me point out the obvious things that Scott would not understand.

The Mansfield proposition was withdrawal four months after all field

The Mansfield Proposition was totally different from the MacGyver Proposition.

The MacGyver Proposition would withdraw 90 days after inauguration.

And we will say we will withdraw within one week after our POWs are returned.

All Americans will withdraw.

All of us will stop voting.

See what I mean?

So that's what we come up with from January 1st.

The improvisation is concluded.

We're ready to draw.

We must get our view of this.

It's going to be very hard, in my opinion.

It's going to be very hard for the Doves to vote against that.

You see my twit?

But it's a disappointment, too.

I'm not so sure.

Well, yeah, it is.

Everybody wants peace right now.

But on the other hand, in terms of the governance, it gives them a hell of a thing to go against us.

Who the hell wants us?

Anybody wants the US to quit bombing and to get out before we get the POWs?

I don't think so.

I know they've got a tough time.

If you're dangerous, be the other side of that other thing.

Which is what I thought you were going to say.

What?

The harder people to sell down that position, the more people does.

Wrong.

Not that.

Because we would have reached the point then where we would have nothing to do with it.

Yeah, that was the plan.

The organization was concluded because of the Army.

We'll continue to support it.

And that's your rationale to block the government's time?

Yeah.

We didn't have any until later.

Now we're going to take the helicopter down the roller coaster, he says.

thought he had.

That's what he said.

The reason why he was down to the last paragraph, he snatched it away, started the night.

And I said, well, I can't get along with what they're trying to do.

They're trying to wait until the Congress gets here.

And they're waiting to figure out if the Congress is going to put off their law or not.

I agreed to it.

I said, I agree to this one thing.

Impress with the enemies.

Now, he wrote it down at the backboard 100 times.

I always remember it.

Did he tell you about the Osprey attack?

No.

It was really about me catching the truck.

But he said, now, hey, trust me.

Your mother was disturbed by the attack.

That's it.

Nixon, Haldeman & Eisenhower on White House reorganization

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on December 14, 1972

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