Nixon, Van Dusen & Cole on HUD and Career transition

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Hi, Nick, how are you?

I'm very well, sir.

How are you?

I've been here about a year.

Well, I think, I think you're right on what he's saying.

The days are long, but the years are short.

And it really is amazing how quickly they've gone by.

Have you, you have thoroughly made up your mind that you would, are you going to try to do a, do you have a plan?

Yes.

Dickinson, right, he even cut up my practice with those dollars for 20 years.

Do you think it's a good idea to do that?

I have been away here four years now.

But I, of course, have been, you see in your case, you've been a Romney all those years, too, which, of course, puts you somewhat in the shadow, in a political sense, in the shadow.

And there's something I was concerned about back when you were here.

Earlier in the case, you wanted me to leave here.

I always thought that you ought to move on some political track with your experience.

You do well on television.

You're the righty.

I mean, I'm not.

You have to go through the Senate.

You've got to go through Congress.

Nobody should run for Congress after he's passed 40.

Nobody should run for the Senate after he's passed 50.

You remember that?

Now, way back in practice in Boston, if you don't, you know...

I have been stealing myself.

Telling myself it's going to be by myself.

I mean, you'll do well.

You'll do well.

I want you to know there's nothing that can be done here to help.

In other words, it's out for all the days when Clark Clifford and those clowns...

the actions confirmed, and the rest, uh, have the inside tracker go on.

If there is a traffic, you know, uh, I, what I mean is, you, you are here, and I'll be sharing with you a lot of this, but whenever you need to know anything that we can do here, by, you know, the way you're ready to cut the phone, cold, urgent, you know, the boys want to do, but I'm just thinking, you know, it's a hard thing to move, you know, although it isn't bad, you could do it for a while,

What comes up in your state, I ask you?

Well, the gunner ship is up in two years, and Bill Mulligan, I think, is quite likely to run again, and I hope he does.

I mean, he's still hurt.

He's up in four years.

No, he didn't.

He stopped.

There's been some conversation that he might not run again, although that is his area.

Oh, Phil's, uh, I would guess late 50s.

Late 50s.

Well, maybe, maybe, no, I guess before, I think.

Hmm?

54?

Yeah, that's right.

It's, uh, well, it's hard to know what he meant to mean, but, uh, it's a few years away.

Yep, I'd be faster to have him in a deadline.

Oh, I can't believe that.

What about the judiciary?

I think any lawyer who has enjoyed the practice as much as I have obviously thinks about it.

I am not a trial judge type, but the court appeals.

You wouldn't use a presumption of record in court, would you?

Well, I understand.

All of those things are good.

Would you like to look at the future of that at some time?

If something came along, I'd be...

It's a circuit sword.

Oh, I recognize the problems inherent in that.

You have to accept a degree of isolation, which for someone who has been...

It's a circuit sword.

Well, not really.

Not necessarily.

It's basically a different life.

You're living with a different group of people.

You are isolated, aren't you?

It's a, it's the, I think it's the answer.

You'd be a damn good judge.

I don't, I think, though, that I'd wait a couple years.

Well.

I mean, I don't know.

You know what I mean?

Is it until it opened?

Unless something opened.

But we've thought about that.

Well.

Well, in some respects.

He was bought, ripped, and sold.

I don't know why it is.

It would seem to me to only affect lawyers, but it affects people.

What do you think?

I think it does.

No, I think once you have accepted the restraints, you become less equipped to deal in the people .

Well, I want you to know that I have been aware of how difficult that tank department is to run.

I mean, after all, it was considered to be the black department.

We had a whole lot of model studies and a lot of this stuff that wouldn't work.

And I know that you had some ideas that we weren't able to prove.

I know we didn't get the money for that.

But you were a team player all the way through.

And you handled it with grace and charm and all the rest.

And we're grateful.

And we will remember.

If you'd like to go on the political side, I think it would be great.

Also, he's planning to die.

Or, you know, get sick.

I doubt if they will.

It seems like it would be hard.

On the judge thing, we'll, uh...

Yes, sir.

And, uh, you keep in touch with us.

We'll do that.

I shall.

And it's gonna...

Right.

You see, you would be... You've got lots of time there.

You see, you have 25 years of bench.

You shouldn't get off.

Everybody should retire at some point.

Do you agree?

Yes, sir.

Yes.

I don't know if you thought so.

That would help.

One of the things my partners did while I was away was to arrange to have our senior lawyers retire at 7.

Good.

Which was hard, but it was right.

It's a useful thing, and under arrangements which keep them available.

How many partners do you have?

It's a big group.

It's 65.

Not 65 partners.

But I have 65 lawyers, right?

I don't.

Well, it's bigger now than it was when I left.

A whole lot bigger than it was when I joined.

You will go back as one of the heads of the firm.

Well, one of the, uh, one of the active seniors, yes, I think, uh, in the art practice, they call it heads of the firm.

They always have a four or five, and they say they're on the firm.

They make the percentages up.

It's a lousy job to do either, uh, yeah, or make the percentages.

No, you make the percentages, but you don't make the percentages.

It's an art.

And if you can do it so that you keep the younger ones happy, keep yourselves happy, well, that's a major achievement.

I always figured that the exploitation of young lawyers was one of the last pleasant ways to make money.

That's right.

And you weren't expecting it.

Thank you, sir.

I wish you could run.

Your heart's six more years away.

So you've got to stay alive.

And we'll take a look.

Take a look.

If you feel down, sometimes we would like you to do something.

Give us a call.

Because there are other lives, there are other things that can be done.

The lines have to be loosened.

And the residents are probably a little bit saddened.

So anyway, well, it's a hell of a job.

And I'm aware of it.

The same thing is, I think undersecretary, the reason I had the undersecretaries, at the end of the other night, I said, my God, they told me about the last time.

I said, I have the undersecretaries.

They never get recognized except in all the secretaries out of town.

And it's a lot of fun.

You were so kind to do that.

Barbara and I just said,

I would have said that a few years ago.

Thank you.

Nixon, Van Dusen & Cole on HUD and Career transition

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on December 19, 1972

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