Conversation 826-008

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Yes, sir.

He is.

I think he's done a good job with what he's had over the years.

Yeah.

I think that's a fair call.

It's a fair call.

He tips.

He tips on the side of his constituency.

He will argue that we need to do a better job of balancing things out.

But he's always on the other side.

Let me talk to him.

I'll talk to him more.

More direct questions.

All he does is direct the FBI.

I honestly don't think he knows enough about the area.

Oh, they probably don't know anything about it.

You know that.

He's, uh, he's superbly qualified from an educational standpoint.

He's a good administrator.

He has been forced and so forth and so on.

He's trying to put the kids on.

And he's young.

He's 40 years old.

I don't think anybody could say anything negatively about him on that particular score.

I'm not in a position to judge just how closely the FBI tracks with us here.

I haven't been involved in any of that.

I just have a real question for you.

Despite who lit the FBI chariot?

I was thinking of that.

My point is that you've always got to think of the people when they come in and come out.

He's a politician.

He might track him.

Do you want to remember any of the politicians?

Hector Hoover tracked because he was a politician.

Sorry, Mike.

And Robert Silas might track because he was a politician.

He, you see, he's presumably has political ambition.

Oh, I don't know.

Yeah, he does.

He's like everybody else.

He doesn't know when the hell to go and all that.

None of these people have any guts.

Well, they really don't.

Rousseau's got any guts.

Mitch can't make up his mind as to which to do.

He's only that much for both of them.

They are all too security conscious.

Now they're in the car.

They don't want to risk.

They don't want to charge and all that.

God, I don't know.

The whole world has changed.

I think Bill would have perhaps an easier time.

Uh, almost at the FBI than he does at the Inf- does it even track- Oh, yes, it's law.

I'm sure of that.

What he is doing is not nearly as good- Well, not at the FBI.

He just enforces the law there where he has no ideological problem.

Right.

Uh, as a politician there, he could just be a goddamn good politician.

After all, he was in the Indiana State Legislature, so he's got to know politics pretty well.

We just say we want a new man, a new room.

He's got it.

Yeah, he's not for the FBI.

He's not touchable, really.

Because basically, you know, he's, I think he, you know, he's the unfortunate East Princeton and Harvard, but that's all right, too.

He doesn't look like a Christian.

Oh, thank God.

He doesn't look like a very Christian.

Well, he's Indian and Jewish.

Yeah, and he plays at a well.

He's well and established out there.

Right.

Because he went back out there as he,

gone to someplace else in New York or what have you, you couldn't play that.

But because he's been out there, you can.

He would not be considered to be a political one, but he considers to be a post-maintenance sort of thing.

See, whether or not you have experience, in my opinion, doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

That's an administrative job.

It really is.

It is very much so, right.

Administrative and political job in Mississippi.

And you had Doug Rowe there.

But he had, I don't know how people knew that as far as law enforcement experiences.

That's what I was getting at.

He's not, you know, he says that the job is an enforcement job.

That's true, but I don't think anybody looks at it as law enforcement.

They look at it as a regular job.

Probably somebody has told him.

What, his daughter?

Biden.

Yeah, Biden.

B-I-D-E-N. Biden.

Yeah, that was a tragedy.

He wasn't in the car.

No, sir.

He was up on the hill.

He was here.

He was here in Washington when he got the phone call.

Apparently a truck had floated outside of his car.

His wife and youngest child were killed and two other children were.

They're in pretty bad shape.

Was 27 or something?

28.

He's only 30.

Baby was 18 months.

She was drunk?

Yes, sir.

Truck hit her.

Hit her broadside.

I guess he must have run an intersection or something.

Tracked a trailer.

Oh, did we, did we decide the cartilage in that?

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

Is he getting cold?

Yeah.

Is he pleased?

No, period.

Yeah.

Well, go with me.

Let's go with the Lord.

You heard that?

Yeah.

Hmm?

Yeah.

I just feel it.

That's the thing you've got to promise all the time.

Is that, is that he tends to go, as I can understand, with people he can work with safely and the rest, and we all tend to do that.

I just don't know.

I like to save people around, but God damn it.

You've got to put people in there.

If you go with the same people, you end up with the same old team.

And I'm not going to do it.

I'm on Mark's side.

If there's any other change there, we've got all the other secretaries now.

No, it's got, it's got labor hanging with them.

Well, labor has to be there.

It's the man that's going to be excited about it.

I see there's nothing there that anybody's going to have to handle.

Yeah.

It's like, uh, we've got a good strong one there.

The state would be all right there with Casey.

Attorney General, we probably are in there.

I think we've done rather well there with the Dean and Ork.

I mean, that's, you know, I, I, I, I told, I, I know where it was probably, probably because of the fact we've got no credit for Peter and Mike.

But, uh, we can get discredit for it.

Is there anything else you have for Mike?

Sure.

If you see, if you see anything else, do you know if I'm going to get any credit for any other secretary in this?

than we are you know i was thinking justice yeah that talks like the people i was thinking distinguished legal minds

If there is anybody that's probably heated down the neck or something, somebody that's cracked it up, this is it.

the bush reaction at the time of george by the two has been extremely good

You know, that story we often hear, and one reason I want you to take out that correspondence, our own people need to see that, God damn it, that it's not true.

I mean, you get the staff bitched about it.

We don't answer the mail.

We didn't make a couple of emails.

I said, well, why didn't this one get provided?

It did.

I may tell you, we have done every God damn thing we could for Maury's people.

I didn't run out of my ear and I didn't say anything.

Or we missed any good moralists because he didn't give us the names.

He knows that, but he tends to overlook that.

He says, as if it were some new idea that we have an organized system.

We had an organized system.

That Rose did one hell of a job on.

She had all the names of the 100,000, the 50,000, the 25,000.

She worked her way down through them.

She forced them into the dinners.

And then we got bitches because someone didn't get invited.

Why?

Because their name wasn't on the list.

And we can't create the list.

We can only manipulate it.

We can do that.

You can do that almost with your eyes closed automatically.

Do just what you did.

Order the thing up.

And we'll never fall down.

Do it.

So as far as he's writing them, that better fix it.

Right.

Through a whole process.

I heard about one other man with a goddamn thing.

He did.

He's poster at home.

He did.

There was a long thing there.

One time he was talking about my views.

Later, he was talking about something else.

It was unfortunate.

It was a good man.

It was satisfying to find out.

He knows a lot.

He's fun, not bad.

With regard to Ian Armstrong, it seems to me that if we get the office over here, we're trying to hold the head of the bank open just in case we need it later, you know, to show, you know, for purposes of substance, you know what I mean?

I don't know if you know that name, but...

Hello?

Senator, I know this is a very tragic day for you, but I want you to know that all of us here at the White House are thinking about you and praying for you and also for your children.

And we know that, I understand, you were on the Hill at the time, and your wife was just running for her son.

In any event, I mean, looking at it now, as you must in terms of the future, you know, you have the great fortune of being young.

I was two years older than you when I lived in the house.

I'm amazed by this.

I remember that she was there with one great picture, and we enjoyed it together, and I'm sure that she'll be watching you from now.

On ambassadors, I mean, I thought of a way to get Marshal Green.

We haven't promised Australia anybody, have we?

Send him there.

I think it would be safe for us to have a labor government there, because maybe not that big of a difference.

And then Indonesia, we need a strong businessman in Indonesia.

So Marshal Green should be offered Australia.

Yeah, we have it.

We had Harold Scott down for that.

Harold Scott would have signed.

Yeah.

But it's not.

There's no language problems.

No, that's no problem.

These are all, there's no commitment.

So you get Marshall Green on the way.

Australia is the best place.

I talked to Henry about it last night.

They didn't really help him.

They put him where he's going to screw us up on Sunday.

And Australia is the best place.

You can't do anything bad there.

He lives in the nation.

I guess you're right.

We did have a scheme last time.

Maury didn't give us the list, or somebody didn't have the list.

Now, he gave us a lot of it, but there were holds in it.

And that's where we ran into problems.

And then someone would bitch at him, and then we'd check.

And of course, also, that is your problem.

One of the worst problems you have is with the $1,000 contributors or the $5,000 contributors that you can't do the kinds of things for.

But those people think differently.

In their minds, that they were very big givers, and they were.

And in their minds, in their context, they may be bigger than some of the 100,000 ones.

But there you're talking about 70,000.

Isn't it really best to give this assignment to Rose?

Isn't she really the best one to do it?

This dinner stuff she's done for many years.

She knows people who already want to send it.

The dinner stuff, not on the boards of commissions and stuff, though.

Right.

Well, we just give her the categories for the dinners, and she'll work out.

She'll have the dinners, the dinners, the this and that and the other thing, and the social things she'll hand out.

And the main thing, though, don't let her, for example, you don't have to have her buffeted by a contact with Colson.

Some of them come in, you get to, you know what I mean?

Some of those names come in an orderly way that these are people that...

You see what I mean?

I think basically, Bob, you probably ought to determine the quotas, or maybe you, or somebody under your direction.

Can't be Bush, obviously.

Well, once the quotas are set, we can basically work within them.

That's what they're doing now.

They work, yeah.

A dinner now of 120 people, it's, you know, two cabinet officers, four labor leaders, three something else's, six contributors, one old friend.

You know, that's it.

mainly works out, and then Rose just determines who they are in one group, and Colson determines who they are in another.

They shoot the names in, and the office over there, the East Wing office, does the log, you know, maintains the record and all that.

The congressional people shoot theirs in.

Then it's a matter of working with those various sources, making sure they're putting in the people

Purpose of the action.

Ready?

Yes, sir.

I thought you'd want a little tone of the briefing.

It's surprising.

I think the whole North Vietnamese and Vietnam thing is going just along scenario plan.

In other words, several reactions and so forth.

And also, these guys out here are not pressing.

Look at the heat.

I don't know.

I think they...

They've accepted it.

The line of questioning today went along.

No, no, no, no.

It went along the line of, is there an offensive building up to the south?

Well, I said yesterday, using your word, to prevent a buildup or contingent buildup that could lead.

And I see the guys overlooked that.

As a matter of fact, Ron, you do have a solid fact there.

Infiltration is extremely hot.

I referred to that.

But I said, I'm not going to get into our details.

But then I referred to the reason for it.

And I said, we're not going to allow the peace talks, the filibuster line, which gives them a new thing, the filibuster, and the cover-up line again.

And so they know pretty well where we are.

And I made the point again.

I said, they went a little to the piece at hand.

I said, you have to also remember at that time that the president said in October, he said before October, he said since October, and I'll say again today,

The president has pointed out that we will not delay peace one day if we achieve the right kind of settlement.

But we will not sign our agreement.

We will not sign it one day before the settlement is right.

We will not sign it one day before it's right.

We won't sign it.

We will not delay it one day after when it is right.

And I said, the road to peace is wide open.

I said, we stand ready to negotiate in good spirits.

constructive attitude, and all that needs to be done is for the North and the East to adopt that same attitude.

So I think they know pretty well where we are and where we should try to go.

And actually, you are right about the build-up.

We are, frankly, trying to listen to them, for political purposes, too.

But it happens to serve a hell of a military use.

It was barred right out to me last night for three months, God damn it.

I'm telling you, you know.

over there in Paris in October.

We cut the bombing out around the New York area.

That's where we lost two people, the Jews.

Goddamn sands.

Well, I didn't, but I did not get into, you know, what we had to tell it.

I just said, I won't give you the sources that we have on this.

Then they got into a little bit of a congressional consultation before resuming the bombing, and I said, well, all I know is that the president...

I made the point there was extensive conversation, consultation at the time of the meeting that you had been on the phone with members of Congress as you normally are.

And I said, I don't know what you discussed with them because I wasn't involved in the discussion.

I actually did talk to members of the Congress, or we did this.

The main point is that, the main point is that there was no reason for consultation because there was no change in policy.

Thank you for that.

There was no change in policy.

This is simply a continuation of the policy we're seeking peace.

We've already received the minds.

Then the congressional consultation.

I expected that, but you had a hell of a time having a consultation.

Also, it would have blown her up out of all proportions.

I just simply said there was no change in policy.

It was a continuation and a carrying out of the policy that the president has enunciated on scores of occasions publicly and with congressional leaders.

Well, that's basically the direction they were in today, and not in a ledger way.

Then we got into, we made some announcements on White House staff moves and so forth, administration moves, and then they got into the Washington Post a little bit more today.

And I said, you know, I said, well, I hit them a little bit today, and I'm doing this, and I think it's right.

I just said, I don't have to have respect

I said, they can hold whatever view they would like or write whatever they want.

And I said, it seems surprising to me that when the Washington Post is not invited to a social activity in the White House, it becomes a national news story.

And then I got the line about the national thing out again, but this is going to pass.

We've got, and I thought that Julie came by, and I think that we have to hold firm.

Oh, absolutely.

Because if we don't, Julie's with it 100%.

I said, over the last four years, we've been fair and balanced.

We're going to be more fair and balanced.

And that's what I'm saying.

And we're more national.

That's what I'm saying.

And nobody has a special right to be here.

And on the pools, we're going to pass it around a little more.

There are not going to be some favorite publications on the pools.

And I said, the first family, and the White House doesn't have a local press.

We have a national press.

And, you know, that's why we went.

That's just that.

So.

They have a story on it.

That's all right.

Stay right to it.

But I'll make a story out of it.

That's what I feel.

In the past, though, in a week, we will.

A week?

I was agreed when I was made our point.

I love the news magazines.

I agree.

We're getting off in the press.

the best I can.

And to assure you, one thing about, incidentally, I do think that Brown and Lee have gone a little overboard.

I was thinking, Julie, after this, she probably stepped in under, you know, the Helen Collins syndrome.

Part of it is she's such a, it's such a new song.

But, and the willingness of Bill, basically,

I don't think that she ought to get quite as many scoops, basically, as you.

I agree.

And is there any reason for it, is it?

I don't see her a lot.

Everybody gets her a lot.

She has a lot of sources, and she works hard.

That's the problem we have.

I know she does.

I don't mean to cut her off.

I mean, you ought to help some others, too.

See, the problem we have with our friends, the unfortunate thing of it is, our friends and our good publications and so forth,

They don't, they're not as aggressive.

And the star, even on the material that we've leaked to them, does not use it the way the post would use that material.

The Ann Armstrong thing, our host would have asked, but no matter what they said, they just don't.

Even the Daily News on the Moynihan.

Although it did get planned, it got out, and our friends were taking care of it, and Jerry Green was delighted, and the management up there were delighted, but they played it on page five.

That's right.

Where the Post this morning got that Veneman thing out front.

Veneman was leaving, you know, and the cross was happening.

Oh, tickly, but they had to go.

That's their thing.

They take something that isn't.

They don't make it look like it is.

Everybody thinks it is.

They build up the story.

Well, let me ask you a question.

Yeah.

But we're doing it, we're not doing it, we're not crowing about it or being arrogant about it.

We're acting as if we want it in the sense that we're moving ahead on our course.

Well, I don't know.

I don't know.

I haven't seen any congressman senators.

I don't think we seem arrogant when we take on the post.

Oh, shit.

I don't know.

And then they'll start getting money.

If they go to the press conference and it comes up, we'll handle that amount.

I think you've got to sit on the line for the inauguration, and the president's visit to the legislature, and the inaugural budget, personnel, and so forth.

And they'll have a press conference at a good time.

It's a very easy thing to have.

It's a very easy thing to have the press feeling good and happy and so forth.

You know, we don't want to get a big confrontation here with the press.

Yeah, but still, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't deal with some of these things the way we are.

Don't you agree about that?

Absolutely.

Now, you know, we can always...

No, look, we're not going to be Mr. Nice Guy getting kicked around, sir.

Now, we've got to remember this.

As far as the press is concerned, they all know this working press is against us in this campaign.

And they don't.

I would say eight out of ten.

What's your guess?

Seven out of ten.

Well, I would probably say five.

You think we got an act?

Huh?

Well, I think you're right.

In this one, I think you probably did because of the anti-government.

That's because of the anti-government.

I'd say, well, I'll say 8 out of 10.

Anyway, we never did get a poll that went that short.

The point is, their job is to be against any president.

We understand that.

Not against them.

They've got to go after the news.

I understand that.

We don't want them simmering and sunning around.

But we're begotten in that we have to sit here and take this constant insult and some crap all the time.

That's the point.

You should just say, no, we're not going to do that.

And as I said today, I don't have to consume my time and concern myself with the Washington Post who tries to make some big national news story just because they weren't invited to a social event.

I said, we've got more to do than that.

And I said, I don't care what Ben Bradley or Howard Simon say about it.

And I said, I don't have to respect the Washington Post or the journalistic standards.

I have a right to do that.

They said, well, what do you mean?

And I said, I covered that to you.

a month and a half.

By that, I mean, I don't think that we have to stand out there.

And the fact of this, if the Washington Post is a nice, and this is Buchanan's point, of course, we're absolutely, if we pretend to serve, there are enemies.

The way to do this is if we're going to proceed in this way, not in a legit way, but in a firm way, is not to be tricky about it, you know, not to be, you know,

Deceptive about it.

The, of course, the final question that came up today was related to the Whitehead speech.

You may have heard about that one.

He's so foolish, it's unbelievable.

We're just sent to China to fight in the battle.

Basically, he's well-known for the, uh, the local stations.

And that works for us a lot of crap on him.

They cannot shift responsibility for their program.

The local stations, of course, are responsible.

Well, it seems pretty obvious that, you know, the local stations are the consumer of a product that they should have more sales.

I mean, people are objecting to this.

They're not the local stations.

People are objecting to that network.

Sure.

They've got a few local stations that have wiped in.

Yeah, well, they moved very quickly.

A couple of their buildings, they moved in on very fast.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

I told you, he was a guy that raised in this meeting.

This is his idea.

This is basically a refinement of what Crestfield proposed, that the networks be treated like water systems, and that the networks

After all, it is a network, it is a kind of individual station owner who must assume the burden of maintaining his license.

He's responsible for what he does on the street.

He cannot delegate that responsibility to the Secretary of State of New York just because they run a program out of New York that he decides to switch on.

He's got to decide whether he wants it on or off.

He is broadcasting, not the network.

He's broadcasting.

He said that he decided this year, which he's involved in deeply, that he would support his own partisan, strong, intense partisan desires for the good of the country, that it would look very bad if he

He was sure that you were going to win.

He took that before the election.

But he believed Gallup was right, that it would be about my guess.

Maybe a little less than he'd worth it.

What second?

That was the second.

The guy saw the thing.

The drunkard told him, you know, the tiger.

A private thing.

His name is not George.

It's called...

And he went up there with that bomb and said it was going to be a 24-55.

And that's where I think that Paul killed the children.

It's the same thing.

Remember, he had this young story.

And I think the last one, it's just not the show at all.

It's Stoneman.

You asked me about Stoneman's reactions.

He stayed on his monitors all last night.

And if this is true, I guess I'm going to...

almost starting to believe, more people commented on what Whitehead said on TV than commented on the bombing.

In response to the question, what have you read or talked about today?

What have you read or seen or talked about today?

More people came on and said, boy, it's about time somebody did something about those Edwards.

then raised the question about me.

And those who raised the question about me said, it's about time we had a founder that asked us out of existence.

He said, how come it's Hawking?

He had Hawking.

You have to recognize it's something in itself.

It's a Hawking problem.

So he hears that.

But anyway, there are some Hawking.

Oh, there are a lot.

How did you know him?

I just don't know.

I know this is too long.

I wondered if you...

Thank you, Chuck.

I didn't think it should be done this time.

Should we attempt to generate it in our congressional side?

Well, I know that David came out with a good reflection.

I talked to him yesterday.

He said he was going to talk to some of the hawks and just be sure that they were ready to

to answer for what I thought it does.

I don't want to go, you know, accept a response.

In other words, I don't, we don't want this to be a big story, you see.

I think it's got to have a long ready.

Now, the other thing, you know, you got the little problem.

You were looking at wives, and I think that Bob, we were going to have a little problem.

I tried to discuss Bob.

He had already gone to, you guys thought I, he's a nice father.

Mrs. Hanson, who is our strongest daughter in there, and she was, she said she would have a press conference

And it's the thing that, you know, there's support for the president.

He's doing the right thing.

We're trying to go back.

He said you can't – there's no way you're going to be able to keep them from expressing disappointment because there is disappointment.

And – but he said what you're going to get is disappointment but confidence that, you know, this is a setback that the president's doing what's right and we support what he's doing, even that black one.

The other thing is charges of other, I noticed too that in the news I'm reading, I read a curious line that I had,

Cut Henry off.

And withdrawn from Kissinger after I fell.

Pulled the Kissinger back from the other bracket.

Yeah, the Kissinger has peace of hand, but I pulled it back.

That's Hanley.

Kissinger's boss has broken Kissinger's word.

I broke Kissinger's word.

That ought to be called.

I talked to Skelly and asked him to pull on that.

Now, that's right.

That is totally inaccurate.

I broke the word because Hanley broke Kissinger's word.

But we expected him to do this.

Why?

Just because of his makeup.

We knew Severide and Reasoner were going to do this.

Just like we knew Tony Lewis was going to do it, Tom Wick is going to do it, some of the other guys are going to do it.

They are, listen, these people are, these people are never going to accept the fact that we won the election.

Keep emphasizing, kept telling people we won.

Yesterday was a day.

Did you get it in Missouri?

Yep.

Can't get it?

No, I didn't get it in Missouri.

Can't get it in office?

Can't get it in office.

We can get it in both companies, but I'm not sure.

I'm not going to speak and tell anybody, but it's a scam.

We all believe it.

Both of them did this.

Yeah.

More of us are going to get it.

There's more.

scientists have done a good lesson.

Where do you get 10 or 15,000 votes there?

Yeah, and it still isn't, it isn't official.

That curious thing in New York, I can't understand it.

I mean, Pennsylvania, those errors seem very strange to me.

That's, you know, West Virginia went up, uh, 481,950 to 277,297.

That's, uh,

$50,000 gain for us and a $20,000 gain for the government.

$30,000.

Not enough to help us, I'm afraid.

What about Missouri?

Missouri was not that big a change.

It probably went down to $61.01.

I don't know.

I'm just trying to figure it out.

Is there really a net gain of 5,000?

There are no other states that will have any other chefs now, huh?

I don't think so.

These are all certified members.

Yes, sir.

Dick is running a double check on it.

Well, he won't put it out until January because he said that, strange as this may seem, but even after the certification, it will change.

He said, for example, if they go through what I did, I talked to Archie more myself, I said, the biggest family in West Virginia is an unofficial camp that just didn't finish.

Going back and canvassing and making it an official camp, he said he doesn't feel a change.

Does not think it will.

Scam them before a woman.

Put his daughter out probably until January.

He said he has not, in previous elections, done such.

And in checking around, he apparently is the one kind of official scorekeeper

Everybody uses his red book when he publishes it.

But I suppose if the election was solved, it would have come out that way.

I don't know what else.

There are shows that you should do at this time.

They haven't yet.

Well, you can see why.

It's very hard to get what percentages you have.

You've got 61 on the nose right now.

You've got 61 on the nose, but

I've done a little mistake in Alabama and a little game here.

I just don't know until the objective is calculated and I hope to have it.

Yeah, they had the black Democratic Party had 37,000 on government votes, and we should not, the state, when they put their totals in, just put up the two-party hand.

They count those for error.

When you do the totals, you do it with the... Yeah, that's the way, that's the way, the same way the conservative party

What else do you think they should be done in Iran?

They are assigned to this operation.

The separation, this idea that Nixon wrote with history words, do you think that's something that ought to be nailed or not?

The idea that it shouldn't be allowed to get too far out, that it's so ridiculous.

There is this to be said, I mean, on the other side of the coin, that as far as, you know, just yourself.

that people forgot very quickly that it was annoying.

It goes in two directions.

Well, first of all, the impression the country is annoyed is the one who stopped the beast off.

I think that's clearly it.

The press is going in two directions.

One is the regional direction, the other direction area.

They're very different.

as to how it came out of the reasoning rationale.

The other rationale is that you joked, not joked Henry back because he went too far, but just you were not pleased with the way he was doing things and he made some mistakes and so forth.

But he's building on Jim Deacon wrote a piece for the, which he moves on Reuters News Service for the paper in England.

And Ralph Harris told me he had a little of that

You know, there's tension between the president and Kissinger.

This is going to happen over the next three weeks.

The way to deal with it is the way I am.

When people come in this evening, or when I see them, I, you know, make it absolutely clear there's nothing to it, and I document that in terms of the way things work.

In the briefings, it has never come up in a public briefing, so I haven't been able to hit it there.

You see nothing there?

No, I think that's more a Washington story.

I think the only thing that I worry about in the PR wise is that the public would get the impression that the piece at hand was a political ploy during the campaign and we never really had an agreement.

The thing that seems to have been totally lost on people is that on October

We didn't break it.

The line in the government statement, some of the others didn't.

I've seen it now, and some of the first steps.

But they didn't believe it.

They didn't rob the whole business.

This was not an election ploy on our part.

It was an argument at the meeting to say about the fact that we were rechecked.

I think that's just, that comes up.

I tell you, where that becomes a preference, when people say we raised false oaths,

Of course, we didn't raise false hopes.

We responded to the North Vietnamese going public on October 26th, which was an epitome of racism against all sides, which we responded to.

We did not raise any.

We kept it secret.

And therefore, we didn't raise false hopes, which are now being dead.

This may be a problem because...

you look back to october and what the governor said following that and the choices he made at that time people didn't believe it then but he was saying the same thing around it he said well this is true to fine but i think it's a smoke screen and use those types of people in other words i don't think we have any watch it right i think we've got to watch it be careful then

I don't know how to make it any more out of it than this.

That's very important because I think the most important thing to bear in mind is this.

We're bombing these banshees.

We should get our prisoners banshees.

It's not a war over with.

That's an idea that I had last night.

I went about the choice.

I said, well, the choice otherwise is to have this thing diddle around until the Congress gets back.

And the Congress would move down on this idea.

And I said, we're just not going to have any longer.

This war is going on long enough.

And so we're going to pull the side down in Hanoi and say, we're going to end it.

And we're going to get it ended.

And we held Hanoi back by taking the military action to prevent, military, so that they could lose.

And we've got to, we must.

You see, the key point that I made was that neither side,

gain by continuing the war.

Neither side can gain from delaying the peace.

Now, on the Hanoi side, it is they that must not therefore have any hope that they can gain by continuing the war.

That's why you've got to prevent an enemy buildup, right?

On the Taiwan side,

They cannot gain.

By delaying the peace, the peace isn't going to get any better.

See the point?

Not on principle.

See, they figured, and also by delaying the peace, what they're really thinking parents, and they may be better to get a little bit of a deal with them, but they're really thinking also continuing the war.

The purpose of the bombing is

I would not let it appear that it's just psychological.

No, no, that's not.

Or it is.

We're preventing an enemy buildup so that we can do anything.

Neither side.

The purpose of this is to demonstrate the presence of determination.

Neither side can gain from continuing this war.

This war has come to an end.

It's time for this war to end.

And we're going to take the necessary action, strong action if required, to bring it to an end.

And the President has done it before.

It brought us a long way.

If you ever bring up that one, the number of Americans that have left, the casualties of it, you know, all that crap.

And the talks, they were suggested, they were agreed to cease fire, be without your return, three elections six months ago.

You don't see any other thing you want to raise?

No, I think the reaction is this.

The country's emotionally wrung out in Vietnam.

I don't think you can light a spark either way.

I mean, you'll get some hawkish reaction if you should have found the best.

I think the doves have given up.

I think they've given up.

They're not going to be able to stir a big public reaction.

It's Christmas, people.

Not for a while, I'm certain.

No, I mean, it takes a long time.

Particularly, I've done a lot of horrendous casualty stories over the years.

Bombed little girls and things like that.

Well, they may try some of that.

They will.

But it'll take them a while to do it.

The main point there is if, at that time, the purpose of our bombing is to get the person back, which it may be, and that's got to be up high, front and center, and all hell will break loose.

Now, there's one thing you haven't gotten off, because Henry says he was not needed.

There's one thing he screwed up on me.

the North Vietnamese have pulled back.

One of the reasons the President said that they pulled back.

It was in one of the news cycles.

You saw it, you know.

Henry's sensitive about that because he says it's a very complicated conversation.

So don't go into it with him.

But you should say that the President was not confused with it.

One of the things that he wants absolutely,

agreement on the part of the end of the North Vietnamese in 60 days from the time of the agreement was signed, all field others are returned.

And the North Vietnamese have pulled back on that condition.

And the president will not settle, never settle, unless he has that absolute assurance.

See?

That's the field evidence.

how they pull back that's a good way to get across is there anybody else that uh colson has been greatly concerned because of your pandemic against the post i told him to continue with the old rule you know rock said it was very well he said

The way I put it, it says, you know, Ron, you really want to step up.

I mean, I think it would be very nice.

The president's policy first is this.

First, in his election campaign, all his election campaigns, he's running the national election.

This is one country.

And second, as president, he has broadened the base of both his travels throughout the country

in this context with people, this is all people from all over the country, from all geographical sections.

Third, I think you should say that as far as news coverage is concerned, we have had, we have decided that as far as pools are concerned, that except for the wire services,

I would just simply say, except for the wire services, that nobody, no publication, has any special rights or any special priority over any other publication in covering the president, because the actions that he takes

that the actions he takes here are not basically Washington stories.

They are American stories.

And the American press, not just the Washington press, will cover them.

Now, that doesn't mean there's going to be any discrimination against Washington newspapers, The Star or The Post, altogether.

It does mean that a lot of newspapers around this country

people who maintain girls and get the number, you can get the number.

There are 340 papers, publications, and they have, they're going to get a right that they have not never had before to participate in the pools, social pools, the White House.

We'll let them see the inside of the White House and not limit it simply to this.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, when it happens to be as it can be,

a totally Washington story, then obviously the Washington press will cover it.

But I don't have any announcements to make with regard to what we'll have, that kind of social media.

See, that is the trouble.

These assholes have had, before, that poor Eisenhower, as far as it is, is fighting the whole goddamn Washington social set.

That is the only people that came to the parties.

So naturally it should be covered.

But I am inviting people from all over the country to every event.

And I have church services and things like that.

I don't just fight for the Washington assholes.

I have them all over the country.

And that's the point you should make.

I think you've got to find out there are 300 publications.

Hit the number.

Be very specific.

And you can say that 280 of them have never been, have never covered a story about the violence.

The president believes that we should be more fair and that no publication should have a spank over it because it happens to be

be located here in Washington.

Because these are national stories.

That people in Ottumwa, Iowa care about what happens in the White House.

And people down in Harlem and Texas care.

And they have a right to see it written by their reporters sometimes.

Their cool reporters.

And also, that as far as the social events in the White House, they are not always going to be seen through the eyes only.

of the Washington social reporters.

There are other social reporters from other parts of the country.

We're not complaining about the coverage of our social reporters.

We think they're very good.

I mean, the President thinks that Freddie Beal is one of the most outstanding reporters in the country.

Just like that.

That's the first example.

but we're just simply saying we're going to spend it.

I say, now, come this way, come this way.

The wire services will always cover it.

And see, because that means that everybody gets a shot.

But as far as inspectors are concerned, and this is true of all pools, pools on airplanes, pools they can, wherever they want to go, pools out at Walker's Keep or wherever it is, that in this case, the president says, we are going to go down the line and we'll get back to the Washington papers.

After we have gone through the list of 300 others that haven't been in on these because of this discrimination against, just say, the president is trying to end discrimination.

He said that he wants to end discrimination against the non-Washington press, base press, the non-Washington papers, publications.

discrimination against them.

Because the Washington people are here.

And we've got to remember, it's one country now.

These are not Washington stories.

They're American stories.

I'm not for show.

I take the offensive again.

Keep the story going.

Keep it in the mind.

Do you think so?

I think they will.

Our people do.

Well, our people have to have something to love.

I don't think Lawson bothers him.

No, he's smart.

Lawson, I had him in, and Ken said, Ken, I want to go over this with you.

You were a reporter for the Post.

Now let me get your real frank opinion.

He said, I agree with this.

You're not going hard enough.

No, he's smart.

Ken's on board.

He's a solid guy.

He really is.

I told him I did that.

Well, we'll get it done on the 5th of April.

Give me that story.

It's an exclusive.

I want him to write it.

And that's, and that's going to be it.

And it's going to be, we want to see his big handsome face at the social event.

Look, Christ Almighty, the church services, they've been great.

But we have assholes in there.

The Washington Post, that Sally, who has something to quit in there.

She murders three or four times.

A murder that we're goddamn dumb, the preacher.

The preacher was dumb.

She should have written it.

You understand me?

All right.

John Clark, we're going to have him in.

Okay.

By the way, John.

No, it is hard.

But you've got to be sure to find out there are fainthearts.

And also, Charlie, it's a question of always that you've got to get along with people.

How the hell did we get where we are by getting along with them?

I mean, how do we?

Everybody's waiting to do it.

I really look back.

Sometimes I hope I'm not.

I just think that a lot of people, perhaps you hear the bitching and the doles and that sort of thing.

A lot of people are aware of the fact that we did win the election with this, you know, crime.

That's the only reason I'd like to admit, I wish we could have gotten this game story out, but there were some of our kids.

I'm too pleased that you didn't.

I don't know that you lost that.

The media, the networks, they are very sober today, I'm sure.

They suddenly realize that this is for real, and they are going to have to live with this.

And redoing this is...

I think it's... yesterday was a... Well, isn't the Whitehead move correct?

Oh, absolutely.

I'm an artist.

It's great.

And...

me is that thus far it's a damned good political reaction.

There are people in this country who are really turned off by the networks, who do feel that they're biased.

I think that's one of the great benefits that came out of the Agnew campaign.

And there are people who are anti-establishment.

After all, these are multi-billion dollar corporations, the networks.

And they're tired of being fed their

Now, the other thing is this.

We've really got to cut this goddamn cap.

I mean, in that instruction, this is shitless for the Washington lobbyists and the Washington lawyers.

Now, I just want to be sure now that that is enforced.

If you've got to put Flanagan on the goddamn ball and chain, don't let him see that son of a bitch that he's been seeing on Lloyd Cutler.

I don't think he's seen him the last couple of months, but he's seen him socially several times.

Cutler is never going to be in this White House again.

We just can't have it anymore.

We've got a good, good White House.

Have we?

Yes, sir.

You know who they are.

This is just a White House, too.

There are other places that they can do sheriff, like the agencies and so forth.

I mean, we can do around the rest of them.

I'm a fellow that...

He's coming in to take my place as a desire to do this with a great passion.

He feels it very, very strongly.

I don't know.

I'm thinking of what you could do.

We're getting loyalists all through this government, I must say.

I mean, they all know, they all have a point.

I thought you said you wanted to do it.

It's hilarious when I was deciding what to do.

You have to take it, Joe.

It's been on a silver case.

It's been on a silver for a long time.

Do you have it down?

The other one is a Beyonce now.

I've got it all.

I mean, they are not our people.

Right?

And a lot of them, even the ones that we didn't, we didn't indoctrinate, and we didn't book us, right?

We just said, you know, would you like to, or would you please come?

And yeah, we begged the secretary to come, rather, and the guy said, yeah, I guess I will, and we said, gee, thank you a lot, and what can we do to help you get settled in Washington?

And the guy got over there, and 16 lackeys started lugging his hand, and

took him into camp in about an hour and a half, and we never saw him again.

I mean, that's...

So, sure, Nixon appointees, they're Republicans, they're good people, but they're, we lost them.

And Jack Astin, Kirk Packard from Philadelphia, he had all the credentials of our association of British Republicans.

The main, main line of Philadelphia.

Hell, we appointed him.

That's utter disaster.

Those are the kind of guys that we're not letting in this town.

I had a talk with Blanigan today about an appointee, prospective appointee, in exactly that category, and I was ecstatic because Pete said, no, we'll kill him.

He had come down once with the lawyers from New York on the AI worker, and I talked to Pete, and he said, well, let's see him.

Did they have him on the list?

Yeah, well, they did.

It was logical to be on the spot.

But we caught it.

We caught it.

And so the guy is dead.

But that's, I mean, that's where it's at best.

I don't think we would have, we would have said, well, it's the best thing to do.

You know, I mean, a little bit of my past, but it was a lot of that, you know, that goddamn something to do about nothing.

Why don't you do about it something?

But whatever it was,

I didn't go back straight either.

They were rough, negative, vicious bastards.

And you don't want to jump from there.

I don't know how you got a Sammy Davis job.

You got a Frank Sinatra because of it.

Because he needed, frankly, the respectability he could get from the other side.

A Sammy Davis, I don't know, I think that was probably Lendar, what do you think?

It was Lendar, it was the drug thing, and it was being dazzled by being brought in here.

He brought it in to you, that was it.

You, your person, you charmed Sammy Davis.

That was it.

He just dug the whole thing.

Took a week.

You know, it took a lot of your time in the first four years, but you did a great deal of that, Mr. President.

A lot of these labor leaders came just because they were with you.

And it became a very personal thing.

They liked you.

They respected you.

And that all paid off.

That was hard news for you, but it was just like this Andy Davis thing.

It held him back when we wanted it.

But you see nothing we need to do right now.

So I go out to Florida.

I saw the bottle.

I'd stay an extra day.

I'd have to keep people charged.

I don't think he can do any charge, should do any charge.

I've had to see Elliot this morning, and he's stuck to Henry, and he's going to try to put out a little fire.

Stay closer that you get to Christmas.

The less

And it really does just be a troubling sense of fate.

It's pretty, pretty .

I said, what's the difference?

And we go out of the way.

We make a new offer.

We're going to be on top of this, though.

That's the point.

We're going to be on top of it all the time.

You know, this sentiment here is that he does have his biases.

And he may not be as scientific.

God, he was sure accurate during the 11-hour movement.

He sure was.

And he's always, and he was the only guy that came in after May 8th and said, Jesus, the publicist.

I mean, the first night, he said, oh, they really put it.

And what did he do?

later later oh sure yeah harris didn't show it after maybe harris yeah harris could be approved surprising figure if you remember yeah we know a lot about actors and actors first somebody was in the next day saying jesus is great and i remember being so startled when he sent it sent in this one and uh he said the best at least what he got is they said the bomb well he yeah he listened all night into his monitor and i i've done it with him and i know it's a

But he's obsessed with it.

He loves it.

Some people like women.

He likes to listen to phone conversations.

I thought it was actually the way that it was made.

I sent Bob a note last week saying, I'm surprised anybody would even notice it.

I guess there's a way to do it.

I think that was the way to do it in the interview.

Of course, then the New York Times, because New York is the home of the networks, they played it frontage, gave it a big play.

I sent a letter to the Bible this week saying, wait, it's going to fire a shot across the bow.

I thought about it this morning.

I said, it wasn't a shot across the bow.

It was a direct hit of the ship.

I got a smoke bomb.

It was right down the back.

Fascinating ideas that...

Really, it would be good for the country to break the circle that old guy had on the lines of the American people.

It's just wrong.

It's wrong in America.

It'd be just as wrong if Howard said that.

He didn't believe that we would find such a thing.

I know, but we'd be wrong.

We'd be wrong.

We don't want to have anybody ever here.

He is out of his shadow, as he observed.

And he's a much tougher guy than I ever thought he was.

He's got real, very real guts.

He kind of just got a right, he did.

Yeah, and he now finds himself on a cause.

He's enjoying the cause.

But, you know, we can cut some of the excess, prime time excess rules.

You know, we've written in such a way that you have to have a boyfriend.

How does that work?

No, sir.

None of the excesses.

That's the next comment.

That's a question.

Do you have a guy to replace Virch if you do vote or not?

You know, Virch is the king of the line.

I don't think he should run for the Senate.

He's too old.

He's got a very, he needs to be conquered.

He's got, his face is not the right face for the Senate right now.

Glenn needs to be, Glenn feels that way.

I heard it.

I don't like my wife, but I guess, no, he is not going to be a viable candidate for the Senate.

It's remarkable how he has aged.

In fairness, he's not that old.

He's 46 or 47.

He's a young man.

He looks young, but he's not.

Well, he's got that Indian blood.

He's got that whistled up.

And he has that quarter of it.

Good.

Well, then I'll make you do that.

I'm going to take him out of here so you can see.

Where is he?

Bring him here.

Go ahead.

Interesting way.

Well, I don't know that you could remember it, but I couldn't until I started looking it up in the campaign where Johnson was.

I knew it was over 60, but I couldn't remember exactly what it was.

Well, ours is the second.

They're still referred to as the credible landslide or historic landslide.

Well, I think it's the John Wrigley and the Marseilles.

On the two-party vote, it's the Wrigley-Johnson.

Well, yeah, on every count it is.

But when they write about this person, in the years ahead, they'll write about the two great landslides, the Nixon-Johnson.

The Nixon-Johnson, I think they will.

Well, they will in terms of the number of states, that's right.

49 states.

The number of states and the size of the .

No question.

And the minority party, you know, as they start looking and analyzing the minority party candidate versus the majority party, all those mitigating factors for inheritance of the assassination that he had where you had four years you had to answer for.

Right.

He didn't have to answer for a term in office.

Johnson, I don't know.

He wrote off the assassin's gun.

Well, he had a majority of the Congress, a majority of the Congressmen, a majority of the senators, a majority of the press.

That's the point.

It's not very much.

I'm trying to begin to write that.

Never has a man had a worse press.

You try.

The press doesn't like to write that.

It's a...

The odds, I just think the odds, that's a beautiful little story, the odds.

The majority of the Congress.

The majority of the press.

The majority of the Washington reporters.

The majority of the opinion leaders.

It's just, plus writing off the emotional back portion of the assassination, and the non- Jonathan had all of those, and I had none.

The non-necessity of defending four years in office.

I must say, Mr. President, we're supposed to have started to realize this, but they haven't.

I expected after the election that they would try.

All the theories that they would start to stand by.

And they haven't done it.

They have not detracted from it.

It was more overwhelming.

It was as overwhelming as we realized, but we have never believed that anybody else would believe it.

But they do believe it.

And the people it came to last week,

So my name would say, isn't just a thrill, isn't one.

We made a strategic mistake, and for the short term, we're not going to thank you.

I think we may have made a strategic, well, first of all, not just a thank you trip, but a little victory celebration.

Instead of going right to work.

Instead of settling down, you know, getting absolutely no changes.

But you would have never gotten the changes down.

If you had done that, everything would have settled down.

For the long haul, the changes you're going to be working on.

People need to celebrate.

You know, I had that feeling, and I had it deep in my heart every year.

Because I know they had won, and they worked hard, and despite all that, God damn it, you didn't have a hell of a celebration around this country.

The country needs to stand up and cheer.

They really need to.

But I think they don't.

They did.

We didn't have a chance to, except Iowa, New York, and Florida.

By the way, I kind of made the point, I said, God damn it, you people are, it's so typical of you.

You win the goddamn election by the biggest thing in history, and what do you do?

Instead of going out and getting drunk and shooting rockets in the air, you sit down with your goddamn black books and start working twice as hard as you were before.

I think it's a machine, so it must have done something.

I don't know if I'm speaking at all, but we get the sense.

You've got to remember, politics is a game of spirit as much as it is with all these goddamn papers we get out.

We're great at the papers, and we're very poor on the spirit.

That's our problem.

We're not as poor on the spirit, given the odds we're against this.

I don't think so.

No, sir.

I thought this was one thought where we really did have a chance to pick up a little spirit.

Well, we all thought so.

We all thought we could.

If you're talking about other people in the country that had a right to share a room.

They did.

You traveling around the country wouldn't have done anything wrong.

You wouldn't have had to celebrate.

That wouldn't have mattered much.

Nobody would have seen it.

Nobody would have been there.

It would have been another campaign.

You know, it would be a victory celebration.

Maybe we should have had it.

That's when you'll get along with you.

And people still feel it's very...

That was one of the, I must say one thing, we did go to work hard and fast.

We could have been around here.

We had a little problem with all the people that were going to leave.

We couldn't have come in.

I had to go in and talk to the cabinet and the wife next to me when I showed up.

It was absolute deception.

See, you could have gone in anyway.

You could have come in here.

We could have all jumped up and cheered and said,

This was a great thing, and you could have said, you've all done an outstanding job, and I want you to get a good vacation, well-earned rest for a couple weeks, and then we'll come back and go back to an intern.

If you had done that, we would have had a hell of a time during anything loose.

It's hard even now, and as you know, we haven't succeeded in some cases.

Plus the fact, Mr. President, that wouldn't have succeeded much beyond this room.

That would not have radiated much.

That's right.

It would have made a difference in your own field.

Yeah.

Some of the people around here, at least.

We've got to drive this change of personnel through, but we should do some laying up at some point.

There should be some.

It ought to be a gauge on it.

All right.

It's fun to check people loose a little bit.

All right.

take much to create it.

I suppose one small error was election night.

We decided on a low key thing here at the desk and go over to that surrounding hotel and everybody's standing around.

Just go ahead and give them away and talk and then leave.

You really probably all stayed around there like we did at the convention.

The shake hands were about 1,000 people.

That would have made about a three and a quarter percent difference to about 3,000 people who were so excited at that point.

Should have made any difference to them.

Would have been utterly... Oh, Jesus Christ.

I was up there for a while.

That atmosphere was great.

It was the hell of it.

Anyway, there was no feeling.

And you talk to the kids.

Christ, they were ecstatic.

They think it's great, this thing.

You have any kids over in the White House?

The things you've done are the right things to have done.

You just set the right signals.

The Colson reception business, this monkey business.

And this has jarred the press, too.

And they don't know what the hell to make out of all this stuff.

They haven't given us the credit they should have.

They're starting to.

They have.

And it's surprising.

And it's a great result.

You've done the Andrew Jackson thing.

You've gotten the muddy boots in.

The guys over here in the blinders, the front half of the business.

The hard hats on their lapels.

That even got out in the press.

And the reason it got in the press was because the press think it was bad.

Some jackass was too stupid to know that he shouldn't have worn his hat to the White House.

But he was a DAV.

He should have worn it.

Out in the country, there'd be that.

Does that worry you?

I don't think those people...

Let me say, whenever you see one of those guys with those jackass hats on, he's for us.

If you see the kind of people that don't have them on, you can figure about half of them are against us.

That's right.

Well, the people that look down the nose on the guy that wears that hat are basically the elitists who work with us.

And the guy that wears that hat, he wears it because he wants you to know he believes in something.

That's his rank, though.

That's why I wear it.

I wear it.

I get once to put it on every morning.

I miss it once, you know.

Apparently it was not on.

Well, actually, I've been going out in Washington every now and then in the last couple of weeks socially, which I haven't done for a while.

And I wear it out in Washington, and I notice people who look at you.

Every now and then you'll see a little sneer when they look at you.

You've got to let them see it.

Wait a minute.

Yes, sir.

Because they are assigned.

They only do that in Britain, on Britain's grave.

Now they're still in the grave.

So, the real killer is Nassau.

They had that candidate in Boston.

And now, their agent, my inspector said, I was talking to my son, the agent is horribly dishonest, what we're saying.

He was such a bad candidate.

or too good to be president.

That's the one that, yeah, he's in the two-state, but boy, that turns people off.

You know, I told last night the greatest story of all, Mrs. Brennan, so I put her on my left at dinner, and I put Mrs. O'Rourke, who was very wealthy, very cheap, bastard, native, you know, and is one of the few women from that background

and talk to somebody from labor without sounding condescending.

I don't know why it is.

It's very remarkable.

There are very few people in our cabinet and very few people in our White House that can really do it.

It's terribly difficult.

I have an issue, because I feel very much at home with them.

I mean, I talk, and I have the same lingo.

And I know it's just very difficult for somebody with a very good education.

You've got many professors,

And kind of, in a way, forget it.

Anyway, some of them do it well, some of them can't.

But I met this, I watched her, and I'm not seeing whether she can handle other things.

And she talked to this woman, who basically is a woman, probably in high school education, who's already got a grandchild.

And the rest just said they were old friends and so forth.

And this woman didn't know how to remove the content.

She made her whole law for the rest of the way to do that while they were on the show the next time.

And we made her feel real good.

But she told the time.

She said it was a year ago or something.

She was down with her husband, whose name is on his computer.

And she said,

He said, I brought down Peter III.

He was a very neat girl.

And he said, I took him on a tour of everything.

We were in Washington and had all sorts of your staff.

It was so nice.

He took me all the way to the White House.

He said, he showed me your office.

He showed me the Capitol.

They were thinking of you.

We were just so excited.

And school started about a month later in the first.

He was 18 or 17 when they said what they'd done this summer.

He wrote a paper.

He brought it home very proudly.

He had a name.

I'm trying to mention the employees.

It's a very good thing to mention.

Why didn't you talk to my wife at the White House?

Oh, Grandma, they would never believe this.

That's great.

Totally true, sir.

So we left it out.

Totally true.

They wouldn't believe it.

And that shows you why there is down there an unspottish deal in America.

You would never believe it.

I had similar experiences with my son when I was talking to him about coming into the White House.

Well, anyway, we'll do the best we can to keep it going.

I hope.

Amen.

The Spirit is out for us on the bridge.

Can I read all this stuff?

Fix all those calls.

For each and so many.

Maybe he watched the whole thing.

It's a theory on that.

Yeah.

It's a theory on that that your doctor was supposed to have circulated in the camera.

You ever see that?

That was a complete phony.

What's his name in New York?

Eisner.

He's not?

Yeah.

Eisner.

No, no, no.

It was a phony paper that was being circulated.

I don't know how he did it.

Jews enjoy persecuting themselves.

They get pleasure out of it.

Jews enjoy being persecuted, enjoy being hurt.

There's something to that.

That's one of our badges.

But it was written and it was distributed.

So when I was speaking in the back, there was one error that I didn't make.

I'm sure it was solely because we didn't have the social office communication.

The cardinal was the speaker.

And we had a magnificent German choir.

And it was German, they called them singing angels, they went over there.

And, uh, Dan to the cardinal, as he read his talk, a very good talk.

And Dan to the cardinal, he just came back from Poland, told about the St. Marshalls.

But, and see, spectacles, they took off, and they poured it, and they used the air, and they pulled out, and so forth.

You know, the Continent Jews had made that an honorable point.

Well, I thought that after the Florida program, the ambassador was there, and Julie Buss was the one who talked to the ambassador afterwards.

Good.

Well, he came through the line, and he came through the line, and I could see the ambassador was obviously terrible.

I mean, he was proper, but he was locked in a van.

Well, when I thought of those kids, the oldest was 19.

I had to be reminded of that goddamn thing.

And of course, there were, of course, Washington's an horrible place.

They killed Jews and priests and everything else.

Probably not very as bad as the Jews at all.

That's my view.

But nevertheless, I made you wrong.

It doesn't make any difference.

It was a terribly gross thing to do.

Now the point, of course, is that I said to him, now, for Christ's sakes, why didn't the advanced man, who does a certain thing, tell the cardinal to have a chair in the choir?

And I, because I know he obviously wrote the thing.

And it will probably never happen again, but be sure, every person in the church, I guess it's Lucy that handles that.

We've got to get that majority, get it in somebody's hands.

It's better not to require it.

And the preacher was, the preacher was no, you had to have a Catholic choir, Protestant preacher, so forth.

Christ, he came to it every night with Jewish rabbis, everybody wanted to talk about Christ being crucified for the Jews, you know.

But it was, it was a, really a embarrassing thing.

I went back to it, of course, that night.

I went and had a picture taken with the choir.

Talked with them.

I think they were all angry.

the greatest thing in their lives to be coming in 15 years.

They raised money for a home for disabled children.

These are all orphans.

Oh, God damn it.

I just couldn't believe it.

You know, I was thinking, too, the difference between a politician or even a preacher like Graham.

I thought Kroll would have been, too, at the moment.

But I don't think he ever looked at his programs.

You know, that's amazing.

You see, that could have happened.

It would have been a last minute thing, but that was actually the choir who said it at the same time Grohl was.

You must have known what the choir was.

But you, as a justice program, don't find out.

Don't criticize anybody, because I don't want to ever get back to Grohl.

It's an incredible gap.

God, I wish I could learn from the older kids in the story that they told my kids before.

Of course, I think, frankly, the Jews would have overdone that.

Well, they played that thing.

They played that thing.

And look, now the war's over for 25 years.

I know, but they loved that stuff.

They don't want anybody to forget it.

And they built that up.

And when we were in Warsaw, that Warsaw ghetto, they had a huge stamp on all the barbed wire and everything that said it.

But you forget it too much.

That was the point you were making.

So we're all going to be living together.

When Howard Smith is there, I told him that he would remark what a magnificent house he had, and his garden, and so forth, and his big British wife, who doesn't seem to be very bright.

She may be bright when she appears, but she loves her garden.

She's not as bright as when she was out in her clouds, but I can say that she's certainly going to certainly have good congestion in her figure.

She does well in Texas, but she was one of them.

They loved the reference to that house.

But he deserved it.

He stood with us on all these continents.

And he must be a baron, because he's a liberal.

He was.

He still lives.

He is on, for example, like black issues.

I don't know if I can.

He's out of welfare.

He's basically out of this thing.

Something happened and his son got shot or something.

He's always understood Vietnam.

His wife is in the United States.

She's hot.

She's very hot, but she's also a... She's a...

She's got the Russian background.

She thought the one-day thing was a reason to vote for you because how stupid it would be if you didn't do things like what we did.

She said when I had dinner at the house, it was a great distress.

It didn't do her any quite so well.

And she's a little bit of a right-winger.

John, I'm putting her down.

I said, yes, sir.

No, I guess we were wrong.

We had to grab it, didn't we?

We had to get ahold of the government.

And now we're starting to get ahold of the government.

What are we going to do with it?

It'll be a hell of a lot more guns than previously, that's for sure.

But among those great goals that we have, one is a continuing battle to create, rather than putting it destructively, to create a new establishment.

That's why I've got to get some intellectuals in here that are

that, frankly, that I can talk to, even though there are a few nightmares.

We've just got to do it.

We've got to create a new establishment.

And, frankly, these damn snobs from the elitist places, they just ain't getting that anymore.

Good.

Now, the other thing is to create a new establishment in terms of who gets in on the business side.

Oh, that's where Dr. Ann Webster, she'll be getting confirmed to help us a lot.

That's where you and your guys have got to be.

So, her is going to do that as part of the indoctrination.

Or can you do that?

She can't tell people that.

We will know that there are great things that are going to affect great interests.

We'll find out.

Chuck, here's the thing you can do.

Can't you set up a deal where you can find out what, like if there's some big land dealer that you're going to deal with, or something that's been employed in the past?

something that is, oh, another thing, Mark Bellow, there is major clients, doesn't it?

He said, all right, we've got the goddamn clients of all these people.

All right, but we've got the client list of the bad partners.

Does that ever occur to you?

Some of the business owners put up their clients.

All right.

You know what we need?

We've got to have a shed list as far as those clients are concerned.

I've got that one.

Hold on a minute.

You just know, because I intend to play a problem.

And I do it for the reason that that's the only way we're going to be able to do this damage.

And also for the reason that goddamn it, they played a problem with us.

They played a problem with Maurice Stans.

Poor bastard.

It's been interesting, Mr. President, for people who have contacted me since it was announced that it was leaving.

These are, you know, they hope they can throw a bomb.

They can keep on hitting.

having Lloyd Cutler as a victim, like Paley yesterday.

Are you... Lloyd Cutler, Lloyd Cutler represents, Wilma Cutler Pickering represents CBS.

Cutler does?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, that's great.

All he was doing yesterday was, Paley was hoping he could find me help with the retainer.

I'm not interested.

I bet there's several reasons.

I don't know what you're referring to.

Yes, I...

I didn't tell them.

I said, when David said to me, would you occur and be available to help us?

And I said, no.

And very coldly, he sort of looked surprised and said, well, I have to worry about it.

I said, I really want to keep her.

I'm very concerned about keeping my good relationship with the White House when I leave here.

And I said, you know, I'm sure the President wouldn't, and the White House wouldn't mind my representing a lot of their clients.

But I said, I couldn't do something like this.

I mean, you might take down the barracks, but...

He said, I hear Whitehead has made a speech today.

Do you know anything about it?

And I said, oh, sure.

Let me tell you all about it.

Which, in particular, said that ruined his suit.

And the Bergen brothers finished his cheeseburger.

And when he left, his last words to me were, he said, you know, when you used to come to New York, he said, I realized.

He said, I knew you were telling me these things because you hoped that would have an impact on us.

He said, it did.

It did.

But he said, now you're telling me, he said, you don't really have any reason to be telling me.

And he said, so I, he said, I have to assume that we really are in kind of bad standing.

I said, well, they just tell you it's a friend.

You couldn't be worse off.

How do we avoid that?

I mean, of course.

Well, hell, he, he came to me.

He initiated the conversation.

No, no, no, no, no.

I don't mean that.

CBS, they got a spiel.

No, we're not doing it.

Huh?

That's what he asked.

He came to see it.

No, no, no, no.

As I was saying, we're going to be home.

We'll talk to him.

We're going to listen to him.

We'll sort of answer that way.

Who will cable television grow in the most?

The networks?

Why should it be people?

Yes, it does grow.

It, uh... See, he asked you why.

I don't understand.

Well, Paley and Stanton do.

They, uh, they have this great idea of listening.

Everybody has involved in this cable thing, so we've got to talk to them.

ABC and NBC have done it.

No, I don't mean that.

Just remember, we've only got four years, Chuck.

What do you mean, not today?

The cable is one area, Mr. President, that should be, that we should be moving in very hard.

And Whitehead has got, I think, some excellent ideas in this area.

There are some other regulatory things that can be done that will build up.

Cable people.

Association are very big contributors.

Well, that was expedient, but they're a sleazy bunch.

But they're going to be getting, I mean, there'll be some better people getting into this as soon as it's more attractive.

Did you start looking at any of those sleazy people?

Right.

Well, that's the way to nail the networks to the wall.

Right, so now we should have cable callers.

I don't know if it should or not, but I don't think that works.

There's some damn good arguments for cable, because you can do technology-wise, you can do marvelous things.

Well, cable is inevitable.

The information cable into the home is inevitable.

Yeah, it's going to come.

Oh, sure.

Because that gets rid of newspapers and television and radio and...

and mail and telegrams and everything else, because then you have your total input electronically into the house.

You don't have to screw around with it.

Now, it's archaic when you think about it, but they still sit down and take a great big roll of paper and print all this stuff on it and fold it up into a big wad and then give it to some kid who gets on a bicycle and rides all over the streets at 5 o'clock in the morning throwing it on people's doorsteps who then go out and get it when they could channel all that stuff.

The first place they

And so what?

Do you get the whole goddamn time?

Cable changes.

You can read the newspaper on the television.

You can punch up the sports section.

Are you sure that gets sent to Marks or Rose?

I don't know.

I sent it out.

I sent it.

Mark sent it.

I see what you're doing.

But it's all going to change.

It has to change.

And you get this.

All this stuff can be transmitted electronically.

There's no reason to do it physically anymore.

Except to break through the convention barriers now.

What's going to be done?

He gets back after Christmas and so forth.

He'll be back for him.

Conley Bob has got to make up his mind on that subject.

I don't see, I mean, he may figure that he can just wait it out.

I think that's what his tendency is to do.

It was hard, but he changed it.

Oh, no, he should not wait.

Clearly, he should make his move.

And I think some other people could follow him.

I think some other people would follow him.

But he's got to go right away.

He's going to be read out by others who...

The Vice President's moving very effectively.

He lets you know.

I told you.

One day he loaded up his airplane from the space shuttle with just the right kind of people.

He's moving very effectively.

He's got to get himself in position.

I thought in the last conversation I had with my buddy, he sounded very amenable.

The thing is, he's got to get in it, and then, frankly, Bob, there's got to be a move made for him up there to hold the line before people jump on this comedy thing.

We can do that, but you can't beat something with nothing.

We've already had them.

But I think you're right.

I think he's got to move.

I don't think he can sit back.

And if he's playing a double game, he could find himself up the grip with no paddle on either side.

Well, he knows he's got no paddle on either side.

He told me that quite a bit.

Yeah, he told me that, too.

But it was amazing how much he knew about exactly what was happening in that Strauss operation.

You mean you think he really wanted those things?

I don't know.

He was sure, when I called him that day, we got a news report, you know, that, yeah.

I think Cone is, is that Mrs. Wesley is, Cone always keeps his options open.

And I think he may have been a strong celebration.

Could have been.

But the Democratic Party cannot nominate a man that does not support McGovern.

He cannot do it.

Because, and he's got to be smart enough to know that.

Except, you know, the smartest politicians become dumb when they're concerned themselves.

They just don't, they think they're the exception.

And Conley has a problem.

He doesn't have a good political guy with him.

Well, he has a couple, but he doesn't know how to use them.

I think Christian may be...

But he's with Conley.

No, with Conley too.

Well, Christian's, in my view, is too concerned with his own ambition.

You can't have a guy who's interested in himself.

No, I think he wants Conley to get in because he wants to be there when he gets in.

But he's too concerned about where he's going to get instead of getting Conley there.

Conley isn't such a great episode writer.

No, hell yes.

If he, the moment he loses, the moment he loses, first of all, he will get the Republicans.

I mean, God damn it.

I mean, they, uh, we can, we can damn near carry the nomination.

Don't you think so?

If he moves, then if he moves.

None of you would have got it.

But, I mean, the second part, if he gets the nomination.

So, immediately, you've got a guy that's going to carry every southern state.

Just like that.

And he'll carry every mountain state.

He'll carry the modern states as usual.

And he'll win one of Ohio, Illinois, or Pennsylvania.

Like that.

That's all it takes.

Now that's the minimum he can do.

He'll win California.

I don't think he would have.

Because of that, you know, the Texas-Oklahoma strain out there is strong.

He could sell himself.

He'd be a very good campaigner up through the valley, which is increasingly important.

He'd go over like gangbusters in San Diego and Los Angeles and Orange County.

You know who's speaking for Orange County?

You know they've turned that goddamn county with over 200,000 votes.

Or a champion.

When I ran for the Senate, there were only 70,000 or 80,000 voters.

When I was in 1950, we carried it by 200,000 voters.

We did very well in some places.

I think it was really something.

Oh, well.

Well, he would not be credible as a Democratic candidate.

I think kind of his...

He may not want to go.

Well, he may not want that, but he also, he really has this goal of making a fortune.

Yeah, he loves money.

And he's not just overwhelmed with that, but...

Houses.

Well, if he takes that sort of fatalistic, that presidency comes, fine.

But if you anchor for it, he can do it.

Well, isn't that a Republican vice president?

You got any other ideas?

And they're cheered up.

Everything is a discipline.

You've got to wonder about the credibility of the president.

Those things, those myths have to be ingrained.

They can't be.

You see him kissing his freedom.

He's out for lunch, you know.

All right, sir.

Don't call us, please.

I think that has to be watched.

I don't think this works.

I don't know.

Keep it going, man.

It's a lot better.

It's the hardest to do that at all.

He doesn't get shot at.

I'm going to see you later.