Conversation 827-007

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I was going to run off the night that I just worked out.

I thought I would see you.

Just for three days and then I'm coming back for Christmas Eve.

to get that thing out to Sherman.

Because he won't, he can't make today's paper go to Sherman.

Do it for tomorrow's period, right?

And exclusively, I'm not talking about anybody else's phone.

Now, it's a matter of my running for it.

I would just say I'm going down for the weekend.

Don't say I'm gonna go through the holidays, or if you already put that out.

Well, Mrs. Nixon had mentioned that you were going over Christmas.

I was out, and I heard it again this morning.

You're going down for Christmas.

And then it says, Ron Ziegler would not say how long the president would be.

You can say this, that Nixon has to go on from there to California, and Roosevelt, the president, will not be going there.

He'll be returning to Washington sometime after Christmas.

That's where we are.

But I want to be free to return here, say, Tuesday, because I, you know, I think because they're going to make me that all-out business, I don't want to be like, now here's me, and you're like, I'm going to get the hell out of here.

No problem.

Where we are right now is a lot down there for you.

I'm sure he's tired, but I don't want to be in a position where they say he came back.

So he'll be returning shortly after Christmas.

Just say shortly after Christmas.

Well, is he going to stay around through the New Year's Day?

I don't know.

There's no plans.

I think there's plans that could come out right now.

But Mr. Texas, shortly after Christmas, will go to California.

Well, the President says he will.

But he will not be going to California.

I don't have to say you're not going to California and leave that option open too.

I want them to be known because I don't want them to say that I didn't go.

Why should I?

I'm saying I'm not going.

This next is going to Rose.

Why not?

Rose Graber, she's the president, will not be going.

They say, why not?

Well, because he's going to be working on the inaugural.

He has to be doing work on the inaugural.

And the other end, the budget messages.

Okay.

But Ron, the reason we didn't want to put this thing out as additional is, we'd say that it uses the gimmick of stubbing your toe or something, and, you know, and trying to build it into this latest little piece, but I don't, and I just don't think that we ought to put out physical nets every time your bowels don't go off or something like that.

I'm sorry, how do you see that with Eisenhardt, too?

That's the most sickening perspective you have.

Even before it's architected.

But I don't like all that help.

I mean, I, the cops can have one briefing a year, and you can just say, it's just me and my mom.

And, you know, if anyone says anything about a leper, and as we talked about on the phone, he can always step on a rock in Florida.

You know, you can put stone bruise or something of that sort, which is...

that's right just say that but if you say something about it where did it happen how did it happen which toe how bad is it i already walking on the ice at that time of night it wasn't drunk you know all right

They were trying to run it, and I fell down dead drunk in the county steps.

That's about it.

They don't know.

But they marked the carrying of kids.

So what I'll do is solve that.

I'll see him here briefly, and just I'd like to show him the places where he works.

And I'll walk him over to the EOB and show him that.

And then walk him over to the Lincoln City Room.

And let him get some pictures of you in the Lincoln City Room.

Yeah.

And he can have a picture there in the Lincoln City Room.

And the EOB in here.

Whatever.

Well, let the AP have a spread of three or something.

We sure will.

And Helen Thomas will come and see what's going on.

Well, after all, she's a loss exclusive, isn't she?

If she tried to meet with you on the Washington Post, she'll know that you're getting a message.

I'll play this game with the playwright.

He said, well, he comes out every internet from Sturt Grizzles, never seen him.

And they had a half hour and said, let's put him around.

And she'll ask for a story.

But if she asks for it, she can do it right.

It's my attitude.

It's cold-blooded from church.

It's just like that goddamn picture with Tom LaLonde, that time that he took out there.

August did take more pictures than she did.

I didn't talk to Tom.

I had to fire him up.

And he was a bad picture.

So how many more pictures?

They wouldn't have a business.

Bad picture and cold.

No, I agree 100%.

How about you get the message on that?

While you're here, Rogers called me.

He was very cooperative and was one to be sure this didn't appear to be second guessing or anything, but just wondered whether we really wanted to.

He said that yesterday Kissinger pushed in very hard.

Scali backed it up on having a State Department briefing on Vietnam to make it clear that

Kissinger was installed or something.

Yeah.

And Bill's office prepared to do it.

Bill says we're all set to go on it.

But it just occurred to me that maybe Bill was not familiar with where they were overreacting, and I just wanted to be sure that the person does want him to do it.

He said, well, I don't want interpreters in running in or in.

I know, I know.

It's just a question.

Well, there are two problems filming up.

One problem is that on October the 26th,

Henry came back with an agreement that the president pardoned them.

That's one problem.

So that I, that I, that Henry had an agreement and I wrote it.

That's why Charter's frame is incorrect.

That's correct.

Now, then there's another...

But more precisely, that Kissinger had a decent end.

That's right.

Now, the second part, the second thing that is building up, as a part of this, which I'm not as concerned about as the first,

is that there is a difference between the president and Kissinger, building up, and there are various courses of guys.

It's all these diplomatic circles in Europe and so forth.

Did you see Victor George's this morning?

Yeah, it's a pretty rough piece on Henry.

At least the way I see it comes out, because he had counted the number of times that Henry mentioned you in his October 26th or whatever it was.

press briefing, which was twice in the hour.

You mentioned the president twice.

And then this one last week, you mentioned the president 14 times or 18 times, something like that, and each time said the president ordered the president this, the president that, where the other time it was already done.

We have been telling him to do that, but he, but on October 26th, he didn't do it.

That's right, that's right.

He was hanging, and Georgia went through it and kind of did it.

came out with, the tone you got in October was that Henry had peace, the tone in... Well, the whole point that Lee had to be quite candid about is this, is whether or not, and this is a pretty rough thing, because he wouldn't be doing it deliberately, but he could subconsciously be doing it, whether or not Henry is trying to have both ways here.

Do you understand?

Yes, absolutely.

Because Henry, and here's the problem, the only difference that we've ever had

It wasn't the rhetoric.

And they're going to make all the mistakes.

The pieces of man's mistakes.

I say all the mistakes, not critical.

It just happened to be, it wasn't true.

I mean, it was true in a sense, but even at that time, he knew we had a hell of a problem, and that wasn't solved.

I can go back on another speech, right?

It was the same thing, thank God.

But except for that, Bob, there hasn't been one goddamn difference.

As a matter of fact, Henry, if anything, did anything.

It's been more hard on him than I have.

But I didn't really want that to get out.

If we showed him the cables of the last 10 days,

Yeah, and you know what, if you want to blow it off, put you on television.

I was just going on television and so forth, and hey, Mr. Bacon, hey, this would be the Spanish media leader.

Well, we are children, but all this is talking about when he had a very fun type of order.

Yeah, that's right.

Anyway, it was one of those things.

But on the other hand, you cannot let Henry leave any impression

subconsciously hurt, I know it's not a congressman, but a subconscious impression which he might be with.

Because it is true that Henry does have a tendency, and we all have, I mean, I'm not here to say something's going your way, you tend to play it up as your deal, but when something's going another way, you want somebody else.

Frankly, Henry wanted me on television to run a gun and have an affair, and that's why he wanted me on.

And he didn't know that, but that was really it.

You know, we all decided, I said, come on.

Well, I'd be the silliest guy.

Why should I get out there and get parents?

But they're pointing this at this time.

We don't, I think Bob, you agree.

I can't have the impression, but that Henry had a good, he had a peace agreement.

But now you're talking about as a result, POWs aren't going home and we're bombing them.

That we can't have, because that's not true.

and i don't think we do have it i think he got a little i don't know but now let me carry it through i mean in terms of what's what's building here you've got the october 26 thing that we're talking about here with the president you know hard enough on henry you've got the differences of the type of thing building and your your assessment in all due respect to henry is absolutely correct on that i was in both briefings henry did a great job with both briefings but as a newsman and henry you see

The newsmen don't know that we were in this direction, but he did.

There was a subtlety there of the use of the president in this last briefing and not so much in the 26th.

In addition to that, however, you have the focus going to the DMZ.

If

And the fact that the DMZ issue is what held this whole thing up.

And the thing building that the DMZ issue.

Well, I have another theory on that.

The thing is that the DMZ issue is why the talks broke off.

And that was not a fact back on October 26th.

The DMZ issue is solidified.

because of Brexit, who has a great deal of credibility, and because of Kraft, who also has credibility, when they wrote this passage out of Paris, which said that the focus of the problem was more or less on Saigon, you see what I mean?

In other words,

that the hold-up in the talks, remember what Rexton wrote, went to the fact that Saigon was insisting on sovereignty of the South, and that was what the hang-up is.

So you have that complexity involved in there.

But it leads, and what I think we should be very cautious about, is this line leading to the fact that we simply broke off the talks because of the DMZ thing, I'm sure.

I don't know.

Now, that is why maybe a Sullivan backgrounder would be helpful today, because Sullivan, in that backgrounder, now sitting at the table, being from the State Department, could say, look, it goes beyond Saigon, it goes beyond the U.G., it goes to the attitude that the North Vietnamese adopted at the table.

Also, you've got to realize that Ronald Rogers actually wants to cooperate.

He's trying to keep one.

I don't care.

I'd have some of them go over here and then we'll bother on this.

I don't think that, not in my view, is completely fair.

I don't think it bothers Rogers.

He said, I really don't.

Sorry, I don't believe it.

He's not trying to screw me.

No, he's not trying to screw me.

My view is that the reason he raised this, and I really believe this,

Because he thinks Henry may have lied to him.

Because he knows Henry does lie to him, and I think he... See, Henry's pushing this, and he's not sure if you want it done.

And all he's asking me is what, not whether it's a good idea, but whether it's correct that you... One of the best people... Ron, you taught me, though.

Ron, you taught me.

Yeah, you taught me.

That's a good idea.

Ron's saying, look, that you raised it.

I raised it.

Raised it, and I called you in.

and that we thought that we'd like to have it done in a low-key way because he was there.

And then you might not know that except that the FBI did.

And then you can say there are two impressions that we have of the Mount County.

First, that Emory had basically an agreement that the President hardened and snatched, snatched, you know, war from the jaws of peace.

And second, that the president is now imposing slicker conditions than Henry imposed.

We've got to make sure that Henry was under instructions and followed his instructions and there's no disagreement with any administration on these points.

The third point that ought to be made is that as far as why the Tarsus Road map got a pinpoint first, as far as that it was in Hanoi and in the first instance, keep repeating that way of the first instance.

uh, you know, said there was an agreement with the National Justice Senate.

You may recall that as the case.

Nobody seems to have mentioned it later.

The second point is, did that go on to say that, that the, uh, that, uh, uh, that as far as the, uh, present situation is concerned,

that it's North Vietnam that, well, Saigon is present, that on any number of issues, not just the DMZ, and then use as an example, including the POW issue.

I want you to be sure to get that in.

So it means that they can say to the POW issue that

In the one instance, there are many, it's the one thing the President has always insisted upon, is an absolutely unequivocal agreement, that 60 days after an agreement is signed, any agreement is signed, all the others are returned, without conditions.

And the North Vietnamese now have backed away from that absolutely unequivocal agreement, and have tried to link it to some

Yes, sir.

Yep.

I don't think Henry is doing it for that reason.

I just want to be sure about it.

But you understand, there are lots of motives involved.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't give a shit about the whole thing.

I take the responsibility, but I'm not going to have Henry try to do it, or Roger to do it, or Henry or Sullivan to try to play the broker.

Everybody should get it done, and we're doing the right thing, so everybody should just stand by their line of man and take their share.

On the other hand...

I don't want Henry, like for example, Henry wanted me to go on, to use a way other example, wanted me to go on television and break all the talks and announce the assumption of the bombing.

Why?

Because he was so concerned about his own position.

It was as simple as that.

That was what was motivating me.

Now we all understand that.

And he represents how that was bad, cold, right.

Yep, yep.

So now, as I said, now we mustn't allow Henry's judgment to be overriding as to what he's done now, due to the fact that he cannot have it both ways.

He cannot be close to the president and far away from him.

God damn it, he's got to be there all the time, you understand?

Yes, sir.

And Bob, the thing I'm concerned about a little is that story of the break between Henry and the president.

came out of Paris, and Reston, and Le Monde, and so many sources abroad that I have a little bit of an uncertain feeling as to how entering in a subtle way might have so indicated, you know, he can apply things like that.

Do you understand?

Well, you know, I've tried, but the President's being tough.

Which, of course, happens to be, in this case, totally, 180 degrees from the truth.

We were

And you were telling him at that point... Well, in the last two weeks, I was saying to continue to talk.

He wanted a break up.

At the earlier point, I was just telling him, don't hurry.

You know, that was all.

You know, he knows why they didn't.

The real reason they didn't, we didn't succeed earlier was, God damn it, we're a side-con.

We all, none of them can say it.

So there, in that flux, he was still...

Taking that into account.

I think...

Suddenly, now, how are you going to take the president?

Absolutely.

I think taking all of that into account, the attitude thing is something that I think would be beneficial.

And I'll talk to Rogers, and I'll talk to Sullivan, and I'll talk to Kissinger, and make sure that we all focus on that.

You see what I'm talking about?

But the attitude thing, I mean, the North Vietnamese attitude, that's a negotiating thing.

Well, I think the fact that North Vietnam, when they said, we laid down 126 conditions, that's just so.

I said, well, but we don't want to get into that.

We just want to say, Sullivan has got to say that there's a shock in our ears.

You don't need to take that down.

Sullivan can take up a good language.

Right.

That's what I mean.

I agree with him.

You better take the time.

You can't get all over the end of the comedy piece.

Ross got a number of points, Bob, a hell of a lot better than Emory, didn't he?

You read that briefing yesterday of Ross.

It was better than Emory's.

You agree?

You see what I'm talking about?

Yeah.

I don't think in terms of the total, but in terms of making three or four points, that's what you can notice.

Now, tens of, that I didn't use at all, but those are lines that will catch, catch, catch.

Right.

I agree.

That's right.

It would be better if he didn't speak as a personality.

No, it's better.

You see, we've got to realize that a staff man should never speak as a personality.

That's why Erlichman's so good.

Erlichman is a superb reader because he never gets himself involved in it.

Right?

He's just a goddamn good reader.

And he gives some good, too.

But there's nothing he can do about that.

Henry is a personality.

He's going to be, and that's...

You would say that I greatly appreciated his thoughts on that.

I share your concern, but I think it would be helpful to have low-key, so that they would show there was no split between, to show the total intransigence and help.

So let's get that laid out once and for all, and not just an obedience to Detroit, but a second,

to show a total agreement with the administration that this, that we're on the right course, and things like that.

But it would be helpful, and that's just as well, if not all gone, that we, that we not have an adherence to this or any split here and so forth, because, according to Henry Sullivan, he agrees with the policy.

He didn't think we'd do it, but he agrees with it.

do your best yes sir you're going to call right now you're going to breathe today jerry well he's going to but i have some basic announcements i was making over to make sure i get this the holiday

Instead, we're working it out so that the woman will have an office in the White House in this room in case it comes up.

You just don't raise it.

But if it doesn't come up, you say, oh, she's having an office here in the White House.

That's the last way.

How long have you been gone?

About a week?

Yes, I have been gone about a week.

If everything is going to be in the right place, I'm going to see if you stay.

Oh yeah, good.

Please call me up today and I'll make sure you stay.

Good, thank you.

No, I didn't mean to raise the question of what brought each other to this quarrel.

I think it wasn't him.

And he knows, too, that this is not the solution.

I wasn't afraid to look at the good or the bad.

Bill's got a problem.

He basically, on some things, doesn't trust Henry.

Well, he sees a lot of what you're talking about here, too.

And he knows that there may be other motivations.

And I think... And there are.

His feeling here was he wasn't arguing against it at all.

He just wanted to be sure you wanted it done.

Well, God never made noise when Antichrist said this, and should not have told him what I wanted to have done.

I'm not sure that's it.

I'm not sure he did.

Oh, I see.

I see that.

He may have not said he wanted to have done this.

Maybe he wanted to.

He had not told him.

I think it's right about the way we started looking at it.

Yeah.

What's your reaction?

I didn't get to read it today, so I've got my eyes on it.

There's no, uh...

I read the Times.

There's no, no...

I haven't read the Times, but the...

I mean, I read the news.

There's no, uh...

Nothing surprising.

you have the mixed bag of reaction it's not a high level intensity though it's not the intensity

well let's just say the thing that will build it'll take a long time this is going to happen in a matter of days or even it'll take several weeks really maybe a month of if we have to stay at this as as we take losses that's that's really the thing well and as they start running the presence of the occasionally yeah that might be the other way around as far as our losses are concerned

And apparently we took some hits on a Navy ship that was shoving them ashore or something that killed two Navy men on the ship.

And that still is, you know, you're still down to only a few dozen.

People involved, and that's the people that matters.

Airplanes don't matter.

Losing B-52s, I really, Henry thinks that's very significant, versus losing an Airborne.

I don't think it is, Bob.

Totally right, totally right.

After the first, well, I never thought the first would be all that, but he said we never lost one.

The Air Force was significant.

It's a big, splendid bomber, an airline bomber.

It was a B-1.

So you're gonna lose some.

That's war.

But suppose you lose one and then you're bound to a bump.

This kind of operation, you've got to do it.

You go in there and get the stuff.

But you've got to keep it up.

You can't go that hard.

You can't back away.

But as far as the news is concerned, as I saw it at the same level, it's frankly a little less level of intensity.

I mean, basically, I think we were somewhat fortunate that the goddamn Congress was out of town.

Yep.

Do you agree?

So they find them here and there, and a lot of them kind of pop up, but you can't get any older, and all of a sudden they get back in session.

They were a great debate on the floor.

Do you still think there's nothing for Colson's group to do at this point?

I don't think so.

You understand, I raised it for that purpose, yes.

We could push some, you know, maybe one or two statements or something, but it isn't.

I don't know.

You're not in a situation that calls for statements.

That's it.

It's not a debate.

You know, I got caught at the beginning as I was waiting for something else.

It's like you're trying to do something and I'm taller than myself.

I saw Mark Nagradsky come on on it.

I didn't even know he was on the show.

He is the most, I'll be honest, he looks, I remember Mark Nagradsky, he looks like dead warm gold.

And he sounds so, you know, I guess all the companies, he sounds so lethal that this, you know, the clocks have broken down.

You know, I think he's really the worst of them all.

Is he really?

Oh yeah.

He was awesome.

He just, he is so obsessed.

His, his personal, his, his meanness and all that really comes through, he just, he's obsessed with everything we do being wrong and anything that goes wrong for us being of great development.

I mean, it just, it almost automatically works that way.

It's really kind of fascinating.

because he the others waver back and forth sometimes he just never finds one glimmer of goodness i would have figured in the news we would be rougher i didn't think they would be better uh there's a certain

I think maybe they've been burned so much that they're being a little more cautious than usual.

It's also a certain part of the American people's resignation.

Right.

That's another thing.

Plus the fact that now you have the election behind, there's nothing, they don't gain an awful lot by it.

They can't hurt you all that much at this point.

That's another thing.

They've lost their incentive to acknowledge, which is bad, and another thing, too, they know AIDS in Saigon.

Yeah.

And they know that this and something may happen, that the rubber may come right out of the mud.

And they don't know exactly what's going on in Paris, or, you know, what Henry's leading up to, totally, or what.

But that's not all that I have to say, because I don't want to talk about this directly.

I do not think these stories, in the moment and so forth, were an accident.

I think that anchoring has put a little of that out there.

I think that he wants to go home.

I don't think he has intentional impact.

He does do it intentionally.

Subconsciously, Henry thinks of himself as an heroic figure.

And people do that, therefore, like, I mean, Schwartz is this guy.

Exactly right.

And he's up there talking about his speech on the issue on October 26th.

Right?

Then, before the election, that's when he should have been mentioning the president.

Right?

Yeah.

But he said, I did this, I did that, and I did read Xerxes at that point.

He'll read Xerxes at that point and won't be lost on it.

But our state is getting it all the way out on briefings.

Of course, we've used it so much.

But, you know, not a change.

I think you've got to ride it through until Congress gets back.

When Congress gets back, then is when we've got to look at how we move.

And we're all set.

Colson's got his mechanisms.

We all set.

We've got to have another thing, too, is when Congress gets back, and I get past the State of the Day, the inaugural, then I'll start a press conference routine.

That's what we're really dominated in.

I'll just have to say it.

reasons are great stuff for the intellectuals and all the rest, but for how much for the folks?

Don't take it across, you know, that much for folks.

Do you agree or not?

I agree.

I think that's absolutely right.

And if they, you need the simple, oh, Ron's doing a good job of that, though.

Again, Ron's clarification type stuff is, his points are hanging pretty well in the,

He's played that North Vietnamese build-up, you know, the bombing testification one.

Yeah, it's coming up.

I also would give it to him if he didn't use it.

See, Ron picked it right up.

Yeah, and they're planning it off of Ron's sake.

It's important, isn't it?

Oh, yes, it is.

It's got to have a reason for doing things.

Yeah, it is important.

You've got to have an apparent reason to people, not the real reason.

Why do you mean the fire?

The enemy knows what the real reason is, and that's exactly why it's here.

But you might write a profuse letter to a period of people, and the only answer to this is, of course, a table of law, and people are going to support it.

That's what it is.

An enemy build-up, they'll support it.

The analysts are saying that anyway.

Obviously, they figure out what you do.

That just...

I think we're...

better position than we figured we'd be, not a lot better.

We haven't gotten any good thoughts out of it because we haven't had any good break.

I mean, we haven't had any, any, uh, some big thing happening on the positive side, and it is going to, at least for a while.

But I think he is, I guess the first key is the answer to, from now on, the talks.

As Henry said, well, I don't know, we, we will see where we're going.

But I think the timing breaks completely for us in the sense that

You're into the holiday season now, and you really don't know.

And when you get past about tomorrow, when everybody's into Christmas Eve, weekend, and Christmas Day on Monday, and then the whole holiday week where the kids are home and people are doing their Christmas things, and post-Christmas, and New Year's, I think you're writing as clear as you can get from now until

really to the Enormer, because when Congress comes back, you're going to have, you're going to be back in a suit to a certain degree, but they've got their own problems, their own fight.

Yes, sir.

And then you've got to build up to the Enormer, all the interest that builds up to that, when that's over, and the aftermath, the glow of that, which we'll give you a couple more days after that.

Then you're down to, say, January 25th.

And about then is when we've got to be ready to...

Take the attack on the basis of whatever the situation.

Why did Henry and Kevin, so that's what he gave you as a reason for his almost paranoid attitude about going on the toilet.

He didn't know.

That's what he said.

He said, I can't, I don't understand why I, why I...

I felt that so strongly.

That was the way he played it.

It was just a... You know why?

Yes, I know.

I felt so strongly, and I sent him a lot of emails, and he said, I don't want to talk about it.

And also, he was thinking, basically, when Henry would get us together to do the same thing we did before.

We rallied the people before.

It's sort of a machine, right?

A routine that he's established that we do these things this way.

And I don't think he perceived the difference in the situation now, versus then.

Well, we're ready to go.

I don't know what plane they lost yesterday, but they lost, and we lost, so we, the ones that we lost, maybe we lost two, definitely, and then another was lost, but they ran the territory, two of the POWs, two of the MIAs, another was lost, and another got evacuated, so they're ready, they're ready.

So you get the report, you get the military report, then what I'm trying to do is the news report is probably the same, one of the same things.

Although I've noticed the news report is ahead of time.

But we do just leave this thought that we've got to keep memory.

He said, well, he ought to see that there's much article for a reason, that this has been the problem that he has, that we have been very, frankly, because of our desire not to be sturdy, we have not been hardy, but the trouble with his breathing for four years has been exactly that, and it gives you the wrong awareness.

It's been too much eye-to-eye, and it sounds like that's just prevaricatory.

That's why they're against Bill Rogers.

Sure.

Because Bill at least tries to do it up for the president, you see what I mean?

And he realizes that he doesn't.

Would you agree or not?

Yeah.

And I think the real ship off was the article with the Italian woman first, where he came in and he said, I was only talking about the present, I was trying to build a present.

He wasn't making that.

Right.

See, he probably really thinks that's what he was doing.

Do you think so?

I don't know.

I think maybe to a degree he does.

He's self-deluded.

Self-deluded.

I think I got the answer, and I should have thought of it myself as to what the hell was irritating.

I was at the time they got our orchestra to look at the decorations, and she couldn't come back.

She was invited, and she said, well, I just never did that.

I've seen the decorations, and she hadn't been invited to any event that included me.

I don't know, but God damn, out of all those events, we didn't invite her to a damn one.

Not even the circus.

And she wasn't a servant, so I said, no, maybe not.

I read the lesson, and I read it, and I thought it was too late and bad, and I didn't read it for five o'clock.

But, you know, so, yeah, she's...

So it's just a little thing you ought to watch.

With her, with Cry 6, I would have looted her in the cabinet.

That's what I would have done.

Well, good.

That doesn't take it when I added it.

I was just gonna say, when we started adding people, that's the absolute right we should have added on the ground.

You know, which I did do in the garden.

Of course, we didn't have Price.

We didn't have Sapphire.

We didn't have Buchanan.

We didn't have Colson.

We didn't have a whole lot of people.

She doesn't see it that way.

I mean, it's a...

Three, and the other big part, of course, is that after we were gone, I'm trying to adjust on this thing, is that we didn't have it.

Is that she is invited and was invited to so many things privately, and she was invited to so many things on every level.

and others don't get that at all, that's our, and so she shouldn't really be thinking in terms of why she should be, but it's a funny thing, I'll tell you what it is, it's a terrible irritation about the whole goddamn campaign committee, and then I can be the White House staff, it's just unbelievable.

And in some way, we've got to sort of mute it down a bit, just a little so he doesn't get up to me.

because it's this that's i think that basically as i told you before some of the irritations that come from the outside actually are fed by people from the inside you know where they sit around and bitch about the people about how i mean all this about this being a closed shop and all that crap well a lot of that comes from people from inside you know that where the hell else they get it

I was worried about his deal with UDF.

You were talking about his deal with Davis and that.

But obviously, he's moving quite a bit.

He says there'd be no problems.

And I want to wait until people, I want to be sure we're there.

So I've got to see what Davis' job is.

I just want to say, he's on board with the agreement.

The fact that Sullivan would attack it from the attitude side, and I went over these points, and he's going to meet with Sullivan, and then Sullivan, he said, asked if he could call me, and I said, absolutely, and we'll go over it again.

But the Secretary made the point about the Russian and the craft piece, you know, on the focus on Saigon.

And I told him, I said, well, you know, that's recognized too, but the important thing is that we, you know, solidify on the attitudinal thing, which he understood.

Yeah.

He said that posed some problem of the...

Right.

Well, and he agreed with that.

That's the direction we'll go.

So he seemed to be, you know, in good shape and supportive of it.

That's the thing that I had.

He really did.

Bill knows of this love that we're doing without him in order to get over with us.

He wants to get over with us.

We all do.

That's right.

And that's something we've got to bear in mind.

It's a tough, heavy business, but we've got to get it done.

But his attitude was very positive and very supportive of himself.

So he's got to go.

All right.

Are you going to do those meetings?

What?

Is that the meeting group?

What are you going to do?

They're in there.

Oh, Christ almighty.

I forgot about that.

Does that have to be at the end of the day?

Well, they're there.

It doesn't have to be done.

They're not expecting it.

You see, I've got my eyes.

I don't think I want to do it.

I just don't feel much like it today.

Okay.

How long are they going to be there?

I don't know.

I think.

George, I said it too, but John is going to have to be the one doing this.

And now George will have to work out what the schedule is.

George gets the same reason.

Now, we've got to...

That's right.

I know, but he just has a different approach and it takes time, right?

He works differently and looks at it differently and everything else.

He sits and talks with people and likes to do it.

I know.

And I'm not going to do it.

Low key, you know.

Well, he's got lots of options, but I mean, he thinks that's what I should do a lot of them.

I'm not going to do it.

Well, it's sort of in their piece a different way, you guys.

Henry's not that way.

Henry's pace is totally the opposite.

He's at a very high nervous level and can't...

Sit and talk.

Our doctors really like to get us to sit and listen.

Now you can sit and talk.

Now if you take, you sit in a meeting, that's why the quadrat meetings are such a good thing.

How come they just don't?

Because basically you've got all kinds of shows.

Shows and birds and all of them just want to show off how bright they are.

And they go on and on and on and on.

Well and they love, that's sort of their, it's a ritual really.

Can we find out, could you find out how long they will be there?