Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 827-019
Date: Wednesday, December 20, 1972 at 2:47 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/827-019

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:00] You know, on things like this Saul Pettit, one thing that I should apologize for is that one person who should use Margaret Rose on this.
[0:09] We don't.
[0:10] You don't.
[0:11] You see, people like Holden and Earl, they have nearly information about backgrounds that she had.
[0:19] You may want to, at some point, Mr. Rosen, we tried to get Rose to see Saul, but she did.
[0:24] Yes, sir.
[0:26] It's a kind of delicate thing.
[0:28] It's something that you may want to walk through a number of different ways.
[0:35] I just asked her about what you said.
[0:41] I asked her.
[0:41] Why wouldn't she do it?
[0:43] How did you do it in different ways?
[0:45] Did you ask her?
[0:46] That's what I mean.
[0:49] I think Jerry did talk to her about it.
[1:01] But I didn't talk to her directly, and maybe that's the problem.
[1:03] That's the need to be dealt with.
[1:05] Right.
[1:06] Whenever you've got someone that's saying, Ron, you've just got to figure, you know, all the women issue, are they asked to be asked directly?
[1:12] We can't have it done through a second time.
[1:14] Not that you shouldn't take it from Jerry.
[1:17] That would be very good.
[1:19] I'll have her still sitting down.
[1:20] I'll talk to Rose.
[1:22] Yeah, you didn't say it, but someone was talking about it.
[1:25] I don't want to be critical of Rose.
[1:26] I understand that entirely.
[1:27] We're not going to be critical at all.
[1:29] We just want to be sure that she knows that I have seen him and I think that she can fill in for some high development.
[1:36] And I think it's the only way that we get a man that will make a relevant degree.
[1:39] And I decided I wouldn't include a walking around eye on the villain that is having fun in here.
[1:45] Or is he told that I would take him out?
[1:47] No, no.
[1:48] He's...
[1:48] I don't mind just going over and seeing the eagle in the office or if you'd like to show it to him.
[1:52] Right.
[1:54] We had previously shown him the EOB.
[2:00] And we also took him over when you were out to show him the Lincoln City Rooms.
[2:04] I've read a piece of what you did before.
[2:07] He's out there with more mood and color.
[2:22] you know, the decision-making, not the process, but he's inclined to say, you know, what are some of your work?
[2:29] You made your very tough decisions, and of course, that type of thing.
[2:35] What did you think on that?
[2:36] What was your feeling on election day?
[2:37] Now, I can pull him away from that if you don't want to get into that, but that's the type of thing that he's interested in, you know.
[2:48] I've heard you talk about that before, for example, over at the California thing at the Blair House.
[2:55] I'll pull him away from that if you would like.
[2:57] Well, just to make it certain that you've got a man I want to go along with.
[3:01] He thinks that...
[3:03] Sorry, he's flexing.
[3:04] He's so good.
[3:07] He'll get you down.
[3:10] That's the...
[3:12] Shut us to that.
[3:13] Right.
[3:13] We're going to have to get things...
[3:18] And if you would start to just walk by and take over the C-roads for a few minutes.
[3:24] I'll go to C-roads right now and talk to that dude.
[3:27] that after I see him, you just walk right in there.
[3:32] I'll go and talk to Rose right now.
[3:34] Right.
[3:34] Right.
[3:35] Tell her that we have checked this salt peddling on the boundaries.
[3:39] Very frightening.
[3:42] Right.
[3:42] After I see him, it'll be about 3.20, 3.30, about 3.30.
[3:44] She'll get home.
[3:46] She'll get home.
[3:48] She'll get home.
[3:56] Now on the picture thing, we'll do a picture with you and Saul here.
[4:02] What do you think about, it's old Henry Burroughs, he's a good guy, as long as we're doing this.
[4:07] What about letting Henry, you're leaving at 4.30, why don't I just keep Henry around?
[4:11] And let him, I'll go over all the pictures and make sure there's no awkwardness.
[4:17] Let him have something of you walking out here.
[4:21] No, no, just with you alone.
[4:23] Just have him get some of you walking up there and maybe down, you know, just the shots walking over to the helicopter.
[4:29] Would you add a little extra touch to it?
[4:32] And don't worry about how you walk with it.
[4:35] I don't care.
[4:36] I can walk with it just fine.
[4:39] But if it gives a piece something a little different... Sure, sure, sure.
[4:44] We'll let Henry shoot a few shots.
[4:46] Right.
[4:46] And then I'll go over with him and...
[4:50] You don't have to, in other words, what I'm saying, you don't have to pose for him.
[4:54] That would be candid.
[4:55] I don't care about the fire, because I think that if you get into something like life, you've got to have a certain control over how the AP is going to do you.
[5:03] So you have to be mad.
[5:06] And we're not talking about a cover, we're just talking about... Good, no problem.
[5:11] They didn't come on the spot.
[5:16] They did ask a question about whether or not there was a division between you and Henry, and I was able to hit that.
[5:23] Did Sullivan agree?
[5:25] He's going to do it at four, and I've talked to Sullivan this afternoon.
[5:29] He seems to be all primed on the attitude thing.
[5:31] I've talked to him about the POW thing.
[5:35] And he said, the only problem with that is that it gets a little bit into the negotiations itself.
[5:40] I said, well, I think you're subtle enough that you could work around that, Mr. Basker, to get the point out.
[5:46] So I think he will.
[5:55] When you run a hundred planes up there, it's not going to hit something.
[6:04] The heat, Mr. President, is not there in this briefing room, and I don't know what that reflects.
[6:22] And I sure remember going back to some of the... Well, you see, Cambodia was an invasion involving America, right?
[6:29] Many, it was a shocker.
[6:31] They didn't expect it, and the sun and everything coming up.
[6:34] But here, the very fact that we rejected him was probably some mind-blowing out in the house.
[6:39] Negotiations broke it down, and the war was on its own.
[6:42] We didn't do it that way, right?
[6:43] It isn't also like Laos.
[6:44] Laos was also involved in American invasions, and people were even coming out, right?
[6:47] Defeating all that crap.
[6:49] This isn't going to be a goddamn defeat.
[6:51] They're bombing the factories and they're ready to talk.
[6:54] And we've been bombing before.
[6:56] We're just doing more.
[6:57] I think that is the difference.
[6:59] People are disappointed and suddenly come on.
[7:01] On the other hand, as far as increased bombings, I think you make a point.
[7:10] I guess Goldsmiths, they think we're all ready to bomb.
[7:14] But they're right.
[7:17] And you've been hitting that point.
[7:22] there's really nothing new here this is a continuation of what i'm saying there is something new