Nixon & Timmons on Vietnam War and Congressional relations

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Did you finish?

Did you get your calls?

No, sir, I called after the distracted question.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I was, uh, I just wanted to be sure on that, uh, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

And I'm going to call him and invite him to 4 o'clock and say, my goodness, can't you stop this today?

Because it would sure be embarrassing.

I'm coming out of 4 o'clock right after.

Democrats, maybe we should see him.

He might be able to use the meeting, though, to forestall any caucus votes.

In the caucus, they'll pass it.

I think so.

They did last year, the caucus, and they instructed Doc Morgan to come out with a substantive bill.

So the Democrats have probably strengthened their many more vote in caucus.

Sure, because their homework and all the, what they say, the men, the people that they lost, basically, are Southerners.

Right.

And if this party gets down, I guess,

gets narrower, it's always more extreme.

I mean, not that they're that narrow, but they are a little bit more narrow.

The extremes are the most of the one.

Let's see.

I don't know.

Well, maybe we should pass over.

I think it would be extremely embarrassing.

I mean, I think if I would have a picture of Pete and Albert right after they passed it, I don't know where it would be.

It would be bad.

On the other side of the coin is that he might be able to use the meeting to forestall any action.

How can he?

Go to the guys and say, for Christ's sakes, cut this stuff out.

What are you trying to do?

Are you trying to embarrass them and speak wrong?

I'm going to meet with the president this afternoon.

To tell you the truth, I don't think he's got that kind of control over this.

You know, I don't think he's got control over this.

He's strong enough to do it.

I'm going to pass it anyway.

and he may get a little fidgety because he's not really elected because tomorrow he'll have a speaker in the opposition now if he got crosswise with his own troops

You know, Mr. President, you might call him on the phone and say that I hope we can get together this week, sometime, and not commit to a time or date certain.

And maybe that phone call will open up and he can use it as some sort of ammunition.

No, you're an officer, so it's totally correct.

I don't think he's gotten short of his father's name in that context.

It really is totally irresponsible to do this.

But that doesn't stop them.

They always do their responsibility.

They know damn well that we are right at the edge.

And we are.

Final settlement.

And these guys pass it.

Now, there's no reason I'm asking for settlement.

But they know by now that we don't pay any attention to the times of the pandemic.

We just do what's right.

That's why we're at this point.

That's why we've got where we are.

That's why they've come to heal.

They should welcome us.

Well, and they've got to respect you, too, in the long run, because they're aware of that sun out there.

And in fact, you know, all these years on this, you can't believe all these other things.

They've got to appreciate that.

It is totally responsible for having you, but the sessions aren't going to work.

And, you know, it's something... Why didn't you just call him?

Why didn't you just tell him, I'm going to have to buy bars, and I'd like to see him a little...

Right?

Why don't you tell us that?

Okay.

Isn't that a little better?

Say, look, our president had a date to see my fans today.

He saw us even at 3 o'clock.

He had asked about seeing you when you were in caucus.

And so...

I told him, yeah, we had to be in caucus.

We would not be free.

You told him you wouldn't be free.

And I thought, I won't be free then.

And the president was there for us.

And it's my heart's meaning.

on Friday.

And when could I say, when does he get, when did he get back to the box that day, you know?

I'm afraid it'll be late in the afternoon because it's, all right, we're not talking, sorry.

We finished Friday, we've already got eight very days.

We've got the funeral back.

And the afternoon, late afternoon,

Well, I can see them.

I can't get that too close.

Well, I can see them, that's fine.

How about tomorrow?

Tomorrow?

That would be good.

particularly, of course, noontime has gone into that first session, but again, in the morning, or probably tomorrow.

Or, as an option, if the caucus does not have time, I mean, we could set up for late this afternoon anyway, if they should have me around.

I understand we're working on a time.

You'll get one.

You're working on a time.

I'd like to see this on a time this week, but it wasn't.

We're going to have a bipartisan meeting on Friday on the way to press controls on the matters.

And this will be the first of several bipartisan meetings, Mr. Speaker.

But the President's also going to see my time, see you, and that's going to be what he would like to do on occasion.

Wouldn't do it today, but I'd probably have to do it tonight.

But he's driving me for the day, and we'll have a discussion before he's tied up.

There's this caucus that may not write at 4 o'clock, too late.

Maybe they're going to go home and write on Sunday.

You know, the way it's just as well, in a sense, when the Democratic does let them get out there, because this time, you know, we saw that very long before.

They did rather well, generally speaking.

I mean, Perry was Perry for the last two weeks.

I mean, Mansfield, Albert, these guys have done very well.

I mean, I've had two jackets since then.

I'm afraid of Saxby.

Yeah.

She said, Saxby's Saxby.

I mean, he's out of his mind.

Crazy.

You know, I've heard of that for a long time.

Oh, you do?

Well, I just can't take the position.

I don't understand a thing.

Yeah.

No, you know.

Well, he's not one of my favorites, to be honest.

Well, fine.

Let's give you a chance.

You can call the others and say, look, you'll get back in touch with him today.

And then let's just, frankly, I'll see you tomorrow.

I don't think I should see you the same day as the damn resolution.

OK.

Even if it doesn't come up, for some reason, if they're able to talk it through and not bring it to a vote.

Well, then, you play it by ear.

And if you could say you're watching that, you will try to work out a time.

Uh, you told us that the day you were tied up, you were sitting like this, too.

Is that me?

Just so that we, uh... Let's make mine 3.30, so we can get just a little later in the afternoon, like 3.30.

That would go to about 4.30 or 5.00.

If we get a readout of the caucus that they didn't do it, and they're off now for a week or so, you might want to reconsider and have him down.

Yeah, that's further than I can get out of here tomorrow.

I think that's the time to do it as good as I would tomorrow, because that's what he's done.

That's all he's done.

Good.

And Henry will brief them on details at some point.

That'd be helpful.

That's what I would have to do with that.

See, I'll meet with Mike and say, I'll kill Reed on this right there.

He isn't coming that day, I'm sure.

But he'll just get the same thing he put out to the press the other day, and all that.

Okay?

Don't, if Jerry stopped and told you to go about this business, I'm having breakfast for all the 190 Republicans.

Money isn't going to crack.

We're just not going to do that now.

We've got to get ourselves in a position where instead of the president trying to win them, they better try to win us.

You know what I mean?

Sure do.

It's in the wrong position because they are, these folks got to remember that they're in the army.

And they didn't, they didn't, they could have won this if they started looking close to us.

You know, they really couldn't.

Well, that's right.

And we're going to get better candidates.

I'll make an example.

I'm a Saxon, too.

Right.

You know.

Is Brock going to get that job all right?

Yes, sir.

I heard last week some rumors that Ed Brooks said he wouldn't let Brock get that fight.

But there's been no follow-up, and I think he's all right.

What about Brock?

Buck's in pretty good shape.

They're still hassling with Bob Wilson.

I don't know.

He's been down for a couple months, he says.

But, you know, he can't do that.

That's the same thing.

The goal is true.

Why?

He's got to get through.

He's got to get out.

Well, he had a couple of months.

What's your reason?

Well, he wants it to be clear that he wasn't forced out, and he could stay if he wanted to.

It's kind of a game.

He made this game.

It's an awesome game.

Well, they're going to be considering budgets and the new National Committee needs, and they've got to be cracking on candidate recruitment and everything.

So, let's hear it.

It's got to be tough.

He's been with a kind of Bob here.

I love him.

Bob is not easy to warn on.

That is what we tell them.

We just say, look, there's some good people here.

Let's get them in.

One of the good things about this is that Kirkendall saw the right in the wall and got out of it.

He wanted to fight at one point.

And now he dislikes Bob so much, he's working for Brown.

And then you point out to Bob, we'll give him a little reception.

And he can concentrate on his armed services committee.

He's number three now.

And Les has got a problem holding writing and being whipped, too, under the new rule that passed last time.

They made an exception for him, but I don't think he is.

And then there's Bill Brady and Bob Wilson.

Well, Brady is not an effective guy.

So Wilson can really assume a bigger role in armed services.

And with San Diego, he should do that.

He's Brady's subject.

Yes, sir.

Oh, my God.

They're all ruled, you know, with the 70, 72 or 3.

It's just unbelievable, Bill.

That's our problem.

And, of course, the Senate, too.

Oh, the Senate's worse than R. Scott and Bill Young.

R. Scott, great guy.

Bill Young, 76.

George Hagan, 80.

Yeah.

Roman Rusk, hold on.

Roman Rusk, he was past his prime.

He was probably there when he was born, being a strong man, 70 years old.

Hugh Scott is 71.

Yeah, we're 70.

Yeah, he's 70.

Look at that.

Now those guys, I don't care how good they are, they just can't get off the ball.

The energy to really go at that age, you can't do it.

That's right.

We've got some new Tigers.

Domenici, I think, or Cunningham, I hope he can prove that he's on the right side.

Yeah.

Well, I'll, uh, I'll go get the reception set up.

I'll knock it out of the way.

Good man, she's a dreamer.

Okay, class.

Nixon & Timmons on Vietnam War and Congressional relations

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on January 2, 1973

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