Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Press Relations

So maybe you ought to have the operation.
Yeah.
So do you.
I'm most grateful, but believe me, don't let it worry you.
Let them get you down.
Yeah.
You're not a liberal, an all-out liberal.
I hope they tell me you've got the brainwash you've got.
I'd pick up, obviously, the two wire services, and that's Houston Thomas and that other woman in blue.
That's great.
I would also pick up, then beyond that,
Their wives can come, too, because then it will be a new way to approach this.
And you make up a good list.
I mean, go to a good age, you know, whatever the hell you have on a thing like this.
You know what I'm talking about?
Yeah.
Perfect.
How do I come?
Is there any, I think, I don't know which people we could have, but they should be generally friends, not totally, but generally.
You know what I mean?
Who do you have, what kind of people do you have in mind, for example?
Well, as I mentioned yesterday, I think we would reward.
I would not bother to reward.
Tamish, I don't think so.
I've got a little bit of work with Tamish a little bit.
He's a trouble.
Trouble?
What else?
What's a trouble?
I was thinking maybe even a guy who would balance awfully.
to your people out there that cover the various things.
And, uh... Oh, she'll always be there.
I mean, you know, that Hutchins woman, she's around.
She's got a... She'll always be here.
Well, in this instance... No, I don't know.
I'm not sure that'll get to her.
I'm not going to get into the
Vietnam thing.
I think we put our position out there.
You'll notice in the news summary that Valeriani says that he backed off of the position that we felt the talks on the 8th would be serious.
That is a thumbs-up on his part.
No one else picked that particular line up, but we said that we assumed that they would be serious and going to be there, so we assumed that they would be serious, and that
Thank you for the reporting.
But beyond that, we're going to have some announcements today.
We're going to announce 11 o'clock your meeting with the Secretary of State and the Defense and other... Keep the Kissinger meetings with you moving as... Peg last night.
Peg last night.
And let's...
No further comment will be made from the White House on this matter.
There is a great involvement in the negotiations to report it.
Are you in on that?
Yes, I do.
All right.
We're not going to say that that's what about the meeting with the leaders, no?
No.
They'll all go down.
The service didn't even mention that.
The story posted simply said that he would receive the heads of the housing government who would be here for him.
It didn't make mention of whether he were going or not.
No one expects you to go.
Well, that's the point.
That's why I really thought we were going to hear it early and slowly.
You never assume a God damn thing.
Maybe it's the right thing to do.
And it could be the wrong thing to do.
Totally wrong.
I'm going to be certain.
I'm going to go to that death.
It's not that certain.
And I've been to that.
I've done that.
It was his desire to have the Christ in me.
He said, damn, I'm going to get it.
So that's all I have.
We have a basic announcement that we have for Davis-Fresno, which I'm going to hand over to the commissioners and so forth.
General Smith is leaving.
He's going to see you today.
NASA, Fletcher's staying, and the assistant secretaries were going to announce that agriculture.
C. Corp. Brown's leaving the CAB.
Earl Watson's having his year ender and announcing his poultry.
Poultry.
Poultry.
We need you at a very early date.
We need to work on it.
And on that list, you understand?
Yes, yes.
Because you can work on that.
I mean, you can't assume you want somebody to just train and see you.
And I know you've made up a list of which ones, but it's up.
You've also got to make up a list of those that should, so that you'll be reminded again, and remind everybody in the stupid staff as to which ones they're not receiving.
See what I mean?
See my point?
You've got to be in charge of that.
If you were to see to it that nobody in this staff, including the domestic types, see people without wherewithal, this is the White House staff I'm talking about,
Now, you can pass this down to the people around, everyone too.
It's got to be done in a straight line.
I don't want any damn memorandum.
That's right.
There are ways to do it, you see.
I don't want anybody to see Osborne.
I don't want anybody to see who they all signed it with.
He's going to do a column in time.
He's not going to be seen in a second.
Is that clear?
Is that clear?
Yes, sir.
It's getting through a little bit, because Bill Rogers called yesterday and thought other things.
He said, he said, it's awful tough, you know, he said, are you sure that I shouldn't see Scotty Russell?
He said, hell yes, Bill, why in the world would you even ask him?
He said, well, Kissinger sees him all the time, and as you know, Russ plays it, but he gives you good stuff if you see him, the bad stuff if you don't.
So I'm getting the short end, and Kissinger's getting the good end.
Do you think that was good?
Did you see that it was bad, but maybe that's the point?
Well, I said, if you're talking about the Sunday column, I wouldn't say that anybody got the good end of that.
Well, Kissinger did, but I didn't.
That's what my bills got to look at.
Christ.
I know.
Russ and me, Russ and me.
So he said, I won't say anything.
I just wanted to be sure that that was still track.
That's the great thing about Rogers and this stuff.
He really tracks.
He does.
He's the only guy in the cabin, the old cabin, who really tracked on that.
That's right.
He basically will totally disagree.
He's quite like all the things.
But on the other hand, he will.
That's the interesting thing.
He tracks when he disagrees.
The others try to, when they agree, but when they disagree, they go, I don't know, you were wrong, so I don't have it anyway.
Yeah.
Including White House guys.
Sort of sneak around.
That's their part.
They do other goddamn things.
That's what I'm saying.
And then he goes apart and says he didn't know it.
That's what hurts me.
Well, I didn't know.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't talk to him.
Oh, shit.
And then there's Taylor.
He has a tough time remembering what he did.
There was any, uh, I was, uh, I'm going to name, uh, the word, but I had more Google now than that.
Didn't get a damn thing on television.
It was great on the radio.
Good on radio, played well on the radio.
It was a network show.
It wasn't a long thing on CBS radio, but they had, uh, what's his name, the head of the Pirates on it.
Yeah.
Gallagher.
Gallagher, right?
And the guys did a great job out here, too.
But they've got local TV.
And it was distributed on the local, you know, the local .
Well, the networks are the ones who didn't use it then.
Well, I think probably they didn't use it last night because they were so consumed by this congressional thing.
Their whole show really was .
What was it?
Oh, on an interview with two diplomatic soldiers in Vietnam.
That's what I mean.
That relates to this whole thing you're all talking about.
It relates to Vietnam.
It has nothing to do with it.
Relates, they are absorbed and consumed by this form of alcoholism.
Any time there's a Vietnam thing going, they can't think about anything else.
Absolutely.
No question about it.
The guys over in the CBS?
Does it bother you?
Yes, sir.
Well, it should.
No, what I mean is, no, it bothers you that they don't play the news.
That's what I mean.
But it doesn't bother me in terms of what it does to us for the reason that we can't do a goddamn thing about that.
And we've been through it before.
And the thing is, we've been through it.
Have a little respect.
You cannot be defensive.
But it should bother us in terms of our...
But we've got to continue to try to figure out ways to get news and some of the other stuff in.
I guess all you can do on Vietnam, you've just got to accept that some of that stuff, it really is probably people for us even.
Don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.
The Vietnam reprise.
They've got anything to go on it.
They just drive for a feature copy.
They've got no war to show anymore.
They can't show any pictures of...
You know, it's kind of like...
So now they find two poor AWOL soldiers who have wandered off, you know, and are taking dope, and they spend 15 minutes interviewing them.
I don't know anything about it.
You've got to see that the goddamn staff is going to get bothered.
The staff has got work to do.
Oh, yeah, I agree with that, but I think we've got to also look to our own efforts
It's kind of like there's a whole different world out here.
And you have three television networks, and you have some of the Washington press corps sitting here involved and living and talking and discussing the thing, and it's totally separate from the real world.
The people that are doing it, all support it together.
They lost the election.
They're grasping at a straw.
They're grasping at a straw.
And sometimes you don't worry about it.
I mean, you can't do a thing about it.
Believe me, I've got a whole set of people here on.
I mean, once we get the teacher, the usual group of people, you know, they're starting to raise now.
They won't do any good.
Not now.
Not now.
Do you think?
I don't think there's any point in doing it now.
Because really, now you're at a point where what happens is going to override everything else in another couple weeks.
We're on anything, Dick Warren, on Netflix, on YouTube.
So you guys must be doing a major feature on it.
Jim Murray, on the podcast, because the other guy's reading it.
Jerry Warren's called the guy in San Diego, who is the head of the Sports Runners Association, who gets all the men going to the sports.
There's a lot of good sports runners.
Sure.
So Jerry's going to get it moving in that way, and Dick's going to meet with him.
He called Murray last night and said he got that ad.
Dick's working on the ad for the Super Bowl going on.
Okay.
Well, your mutual advice sure came through last night.
That's right.
You know, when I said that you thought this was my impression, my, my, my.
But I mean, there's, I mean, I don't.
I don't want to be, I don't want to have to bother people on the staff.
I mean, Charles and Erlich and the rest, you know, run around the home, basically.
They aren't, they aren't, they haven't raised it at all.
Okay.
Don't do it again.
Because, you know, it's obvious.
They can do their work and get their work done and get to keep the goddamn house.
It's exactly what they're doing.
But I think Ron has got to be concerned about, you know, how do we try to move some of the other...
other kinds of stuff, but I think he's right.
I think it really is just a thing where I would go to those people that, well, except, you know, around the story of the supporters of Republicans, they don't run that.
Yeah, CBS did last night.
They ran a good thing, and they had Javits and Percy both on, which was good because they were both positive.
a couple of .
Before we see who was named.
He was just, he said I can't support any resolution that supports the bond.
Since Julie is.
I don't want her running into the crates.
Would you get your meeting with Rose off sometime today?
Yeah.
One of that one excuse that you could do, right?
Tell her about Ed Sullivan.
That's something.
She's quite interesting.
But I think
I would also tell her about Alex leaving, speaking below.
You got a chance?
Yep.
And that we hear it.
People are coming.
We want to make it.
They're working.
Doing it the subtle way, Bob.
You see what I mean?
So that she can have her number.
Just maybe one of those things.
I mean, the time off situation, you know, is really, well, she's just got to look in the mirror on that because whether it's weekends or anything else, you know, we've gone ahead and monitored.
That's all I can do.
And then it'll, I think, usually what's bothering me will come up and I can figure out what it is.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, he usually does.
See?
When the drum gets his list up again, he's done it several times.
This time I really want to use.
John Irving is coming in.
I can't arrange it today unless it's...
as I can in terms of if it's going to be in Vietnam or today or tomorrow.
But you do your best with all the domestic types, if you will, to find out if it's something that we have to make a decision on.
And it may be that it does, and I've got to move on.
But right now, I've got to keep my attention.
This is an anonymous question.
I've got to keep my attention with Vietnam.
Do you understand?
Yeah.
We should do that.
Yes.
I don't know who you could put on this.
Some smart person.
In addition to this business, when David gets back in March, he ought to do something in the way of a job.
But I think it ought to be something, kind of a deal, so that he can, you know, yeah, get something.
I have no idea as to what it is.
Maybe it's Scott's office, or maybe it's better working for Congress.
The policy committee might be better, or it's not working for one.
We've got one man who's working with the policy committee.
And this is like the Senate policy committee.
Of course, we never check people.
They'll obviously check here.
Wally Johnson.
Wally Johnson is out there.
He knows David.
David, I think he's the greatest name in the world.
Ask Wally, you know, what do you know about this situation?
What would be the best thing for him to do?
Yeah.
We might put him in the slate where he could be very close contact with us, too.
You know, just check with Wally Johnson.
Carl Lewis would be a second.
Carl Lewis would be a second.
But Wally is more current.
So you can't go any younger and understand how it is.
So we work that out.
Oh, and you want to give him something that gives him a... Actually, it ought to be a house job, probably, because it's familiarity over there.
Yeah.
Well, no.
Make any difference.
Make any damn difference at all, which is a house or something.
due to the fact that his experience being in Congress, if you could have him sitting down in Washington, yes, I work as his administrative assistant, or he won't have that kind of a title, I mean, but I work as a research assistant for so-and-so and so-and-so, you know, and that he could be in a position to go and have an okay.
It's too bad this has not occurred to you before, before we got out on the first book of speeches and all that sort of thing.
And I have to have a very careful check, but I want you to take it.
I don't want you to put some of your people on it.
There's a fellow by the name of Lott, L-O-T-T, who wrote the classic book on collecting the speeches of the inaugurations of the president.
And with the introductions, you know, and all that sort of thing, how everybody felt and what the effect was.
He's a historian.
He lives in California.
He sent me a copy of it in 69.
I thought, before I wrote my novel, that's how I got to know him.
It was a very nice description.
Now, he may be a way out that winter.
I don't know.
And I don't know whether he's still living.
And he may be too old.
I'm not thinking about his...
I am thinking of it, however, in terms of somebody that might do something in terms of our speech collecting, the history of, you see what I mean?
Sure.
We get, they look around and we don't find anybody, and we try to do it by ourselves.
Another thing that I was very disturbed by, and I ain't wrong, but I just want you to check it before we meet.
I'm about to see your accrediting setting.
I'm about to have you in, too, so I'm about to see appointments at the same time, okay?
So we may as well do it together and not at all long, okay?
You're working still on appointments, aren't you, with the RRA?
Yes.
I thought that I had made it so clear that it was beyond belief that I wanted MIT and other schools like that, the entire government's research programs, grants, everything we could possibly imagine, examined and standardized so that they could be covered.
I thought I made that clear.
I think you have and I think they have.
All right.
And he said, I want a written report of this from somebody.
You then will get to Schlesinger and Weinberger together, right?
I want to know about that because, I mean, I'm seeing this Richardson today, which is a reminder to him that I'm not going to race with him.
Schlesinger's totally right.
If you don't get that thing cut out by Orland, Richardson will fight it until the hell of Greece is over.
Because MIT is Harvard now.
You see what I mean?
Just like, well, MIT's Massachusetts, which is the...
But MIT is part of Harvard.
Yeah, I know that.
But I mean, it's Massachusetts money, which is going to be tough, really.
Right.
Okay.
So my point is, we've got to get at that.
There's, goddammit, there's $100 million around someplace I didn't know about.
I mean, I want the whole Defense Department budget.
And further, especially
by this government.
What I saw from CAP, now that I recall it, was only from ATW.
What the hell they were doing, see?
Schlesinger has a big chunk, too, the Atomic Energy Commission.
All right.
All right.
That's enormous.
Well, that isn't so much.
That's more.
That is contract.
It's contract work.
See, a third of the income of the operating income of the University of California, I suppose it's state university, is a third of its operating income comes from the federal government.
the state budget, only a third.
Well, you would get in that, because I don't want to, I want that, I want that very, I don't mean to count, I'm referring out of that, but I'm very, I don't know what their third is.
Well, I think a hell of a lot of it, however, is for the reactant.
It is, it's for the reactant.
And then you can't do it.
All right, he cut out of the gunman budget.
Now, I told Weinberger that, and I think Schultz has got to kill him.
And they didn't go after that.
Now, that's to be done, and I want that done in 24 hours.
Is that clear?
I want a report on my desk on that.
All they did, he was ATW.
That's all Weinberger gave me when I asked for a report on that.
Now, that is a dishonest answer.
It really is.
I want Weinerberg to look over the whole government and see how we are subsidizing higher education.
And we have got to get it down so we can put the damn money in other education, you know what I mean?
We need money.
And I don't want a short-term education, but we're not going to continue to subsidize people who don't need it.
Is that clear?
And if you get on under, getting together with Schlesinger, I think Schlesinger,
probably has a greater understanding of that because he worked on that specifically when he was in the Bureau of Budgeting.
And it may even wind up that he just hasn't had a chance to get down to the bottom of something.
He probably has a second man who's a graduate of MIT or something.
No, really.
That's the way it works.
I think you can have a lot of fun with that anyway.
Let me see what other things I can ask you on that budget thing.
We'll try to see .
Oh, I wanted to tell you that I thought about it, and I think we'll go with Dixie Lake, Dixie Lake, right?
That what I want, I want the specific question asked of Schlesinger, will you take responsibility of selling her?
You know what I mean?
Getting her to help you than the others.
But my point is, I don't think it makes a hell of a lot of difference who's over there.
That agency is so big, it runs itself anywhere you go.
And any outsider you go into, you're likely to find a left winger.
At least we know that Chief Marks are neutered in more ways than one.
So you can tell us if that's what I'd like to do, give him that problem and see if he thinks he can solve all that deal.
If he can't, then we'll go with somebody else.
Fair enough, yeah.
Early on, it was very common for any country to stay in Washington.
Have we got an actor man now?
No.
I'm waiting for that.
I think we've got something.
I think we can hire a man.
Don't we get a man?
Yeah.
Don't we get a man?
Yeah, we're seeing some men.
Have we got a name yet?
Actor, I think.
We had some.
Somebody negotiated.
Alex Johnson could be the chief negotiator.
Alex is the negotiator, if he wants.
Well, he does.
I think it'd be good.
Excellent.
Well, that is going to have a very dense loan budget, so it doesn't really require much.
Three people.
Now, Bob, I remember I told you that that budget is one of the 50% contracts.
Did you know that?
$90 million budget, and the White House got 50%.
They didn't come to me.
That's caps on that paper.
We covered that earlier.
Mr. Chairman, are you going to- I don't know, we just- One year, they're looking over all your names, checking them all out, to see if the FBI- No, I'm not a, I'm in the line.
And also, I want somebody's school funds.
Yeah.
Because you've got to get that.
That's right.
Oh, wait a minute.
I think I have it here.
I guess that's enough.
Good, good.
We're going to talk to you about, on the question of the two guys, the guy that runs Los Alamos.
Agnew.
Agnew, who is damn good.
And the guy who runs, uh, Lining, Lining, Lining, Lining?
Bernard, yeah.
That's the quote, that is quite accurate.
It's the guy that, the other one was written by Teller.
And it was written by Teller.
Well, Teller's for Agnew also.
No, Agnew is a Teller man too.
That's right.
He is.
And has a little more standing.
He's a Teller disciple.
Agnew is his... Agnew comes out ahead of the other guy because he's run something.
The other guy's more of a search guy.
Agnew has done those other ones.
Agnew has... Would he take it?
I don't know.
I kind of think he would.
He's been at Los Alamos a long time.
But Agnew has defended us at a time when there was absolutely nothing in it in the scientific community.
What you do is ask Agnew to fork the ID80 in battle for us.
Yeah.
Time and again, Agnew would voluntarily write his letters to the political... Offer to him, just...
I just feel we better... We ought to sell the hell out of him.
And the way to do it is to tell him to take a leave of absence from... Yeah, Los Alamos.
Los Alamos.
And then there's other things we can get him.
You can send Johnny Foster out to run Los Alamos.
We ought to do something for Foster.
I don't think he's cutting a good deal because he really pled for us.
He may be a lousy manager.
Clemens may be a bad manager.
No, he's been incredibly bad.
But he's been a hell of a decent guy.
Why don't we give him our salaries?
But he's been one hell of a decent guy.
What about Foster, perhaps?
Oh, he thought of that.
He drives the scientific community right after all.
How about Foster for AEC?
Foster for AEC would be outstanding.
That would be spectacular.
Now, that's a real...
I don't need a woman.
How about Foster for AEC?
Even offering it would be a nice thing.
See?
Yes, sir.
Hannibal Rose, thank you.
You know, you're going to get a Christmas card signed by Mao.
Well, not a Christmas card, a New Year's card.
Mao and Zhou have jointly signed a New Year's card for you.
There can't be many of those.
But you sent a Christmas card.
They're sending it through Paris, they said, because they didn't know they were going to see me.
First of all, I think they wanted some complicity for it.
Breslin has sent you a New Year's card.
Sure.
And Dupree had called me last night to say that Breslin's children have posted Tricia and Ed, and that they have never done that before.
Well, I had a rather good meeting with the Chinese.
Your letter went over very well.
Well, no, the Chinese don't talk lively.
The Chinese never say anything, I'm afraid.
Oh, you did, but they didn't know they were going to see you.
No, no, this is what they did.
They said, about the Paris talks, I would like to convey a very important piece of news to you.
If the U.S. side truly wishes a settlement in the forthcoming private session, the opportunity exists and should not be missed.
If serious reciprocal appropriation will be conducted, fruitful results can be expected.
See that?
That's a little slip of paper.
That he did not say on his own.
That's inconceivable.
Yeah, I understand.
That's based on what they've been told when the guys were out there.
No, this is something that he got from Peking.
I saw your note from Scoop that's got me, and wrote a note back to you on it, which I assume you may have covered when Scoop went around this business.
The president ought to say that the reason they're back at the table is because we bombed them, and all that sort of thing, and that we were playing, and the reason we had to bomb them is because they were doing a snap.
You want to tell Scoop that that would be just devastating to the possibility of the success of the negotiation.
Could you do that?
No.
You see what I'm saying?
Scoop must know that our friends must know why I have to keep my lips shut right now.
I had another interesting experience yesterday, which may be of some significance to you.
Prior to that meeting at 10, I had dinner at the Goat Baths.
Oh, yes.
How's my friend?
Oh, you told me.
She's great, but she sent me some more wine.
Yeah, she told me.
She absolutely told me.
You know, I really enjoyed it there at Christmas the day it was.
What happened?
I had been reluctant to go because I thought the New York people would start.
Yeah, well, there you go.
But it was amazing.
When I came in, people at table started clapping.
I got about 20 notes sent to me saying, hold firm.
Tell the president we're proud of him.
Hold firm.
Don't yield.
I cut them together.
I was going to bring them in for you.
When I came out, people were waiting outside and said, hold firm, don't let the troops do it out.
And that in New York City.
And it wasn't selfish talk.
There was a man there from Texas, of course you wouldn't expect that, who came down to see the troops and said, come to Texas.
I voted for him.
I've never been prouder of him.
And you know the course passed.
People just don't do this.
Yeah, it goes back to the middle class, some very conservative, some very liberal.
But you'd expect in New York, I really thought that some Jewish fellow would come up to my table and say, Well, you know, I didn't do anything when I had dinner with Haig last night.
I'm sorry to say, you know what I want you to do with Haig more, I think.
We're going to pick, I just talked to a secretary, we're going to have a group of people.
We're funding out all of our research people and legislating people like this, and others, political people, but we're seeding government.
But in order to have them still have some
which is just for a good session.
And I want to do that with Haig.
But Haig can be basically a spy for you in the department.
Absolutely.
And I think we should put Haig in charge of Vietnam in the Defense Department.
Yeah, well, you know, I was rather surprised I didn't get that memorandum.
I thought we were going to have some of the day after Christmas to change the command out there.
Because, Mr. President, we have these recommendations.
But Laird was making such a fuss after the farming concurrent anyway.
Moore was making such a fuss.
We can do it when they want.
I am going to do it.
I am going to do it the day you're here, sir.
That's one thing.
And you'll be here with me.
No, Richardson.
But I'm beginning to get fairly optimistic about next week.
Before we get to Richardson, are you going to be here with me?
Yes.
Because I said so you would be here.
I will be here.
I'm going to be from the cell with him.
I think you should be.
Are you going to say I'm going to see Moore alone?
But I have to, and I'll say, I'll have Steve Clements on.
I said, I'll always report to you.
But this has got to work through the embassy system, Elliot, if you don't understand that.
And I'm also going to tell you that we're going to cut the living with Jesus out of the intelligence review.
There's overlapping.
Now, one of the things you might say to him, if you could, is Laird has sabotaged the Defense Program Review Committee, which is your way of getting a grip on the strategy.
You could tell if you want him to work this
I'll tell you, and I'll also build it up a little, you're a team player.
We can work with you if you don't lead.
So I want to be very close to you.
I want you in here.
And he is a team player.
One thing about him, he's a team player.
He'll never lead yet.
No, he won't lead.
Go ahead.
Before you go on, can I tell you one thing about my dad?
He told me when he was in Puerto Rico.
And, of course, that place of Roger Fuller's there.
You know, our Jewish friends, they always, first, they love the mine, and second, they love the sun.
And they love the good places.
And he says about, it was a very, very heavy percentage of Jewish mine held there.
But he said it went on a damn fine.
He said he was amazed.
He said these New York Jews who were there,
almost to a million.
He says they even dared, even before we had the pogos, send me back.
And when we had the agreement, they said, I'll have a crew here.
So he was rather pleased with that, because in our country, for example, the Congress, it's just the other way around.
Well, I wasn't.
I don't know.
I wasn't.
That's right.
I wasn't.
That's great.
Ted Hewitt, the producer of CBS 60 Minutes, was saying he was waving around with a New York line.
And a lot of these Hollywood types, even people who are not for you, like Billy Wilder, who's a Democrat, said, all I'm interested in is if he's ending the war with the P-52s, I'm for it.
And he's got guns.
And I think if we come out of this
Just don't say, if we do, everything is all right.
If we don't, then we'll fight another battle.
You know, the main thing, Henry, is to keep your daughter up.
You know, I lectured her at the Ziegler and Holman on that this morning.
And I said, I don't want to have her looking at the trolls coming in here whining around about the war.
And I said, God damn it.
I said, it's the job of this staff to build me up.
We have to build them up.
I'll get enough of that in the Congress.
They all want it.
But my point is,
I think if you went to the public, my instinct is you would get the time was right here.
But if this thing breaks down next week, and if you said I was elected by 61% because I wanted an honorable speech, you'd get everybody again.
Because I think the American people doesn't like to get pushed around.
I was astonished in New York yesterday.
I really, my date was going to arrange a private dinner at somebody's house.
Because she said, if you show yourself in New York, they'll kill you.
And I said, I am not against Miss McGinnis.
And she's very much for you.
She's in fact a little more hawkish than we are.
She's a little more on the buckly line.
Thank God.
So I said, I first was going to go along with that.
And then I said, the hell with it.
I'm not going to hide.
We didn't do anything.
Never hide.
Never hide.
So, but it was amazing.
When I walked into the courthouse, people at tables began to clap.
And then they sent notes over and said, just tell the president we are behind him.
We believe in him.
Stand firm.
Don't let them push you around.
And people were waiting outside when I came out.
Everyone said, stand firm, don't let them... You know, I was going to say it, though, but we've often said it.
I wouldn't give an answer, but there was only one person backing me.
We'd stand firm.
We do what's right.
I must say the worst.
But I could see... That is our own staff, though.
It is.
Checker, Haldeman, Colson.
Of course, you don't have to give people guts around here.
To respect the Chinese, for example, they could not have been nicer.
And I think one reason they wanted to see me so late is so they could get instructions from Peter.
Well, tell me why you're a little more honest.
Because it is inconceivable.
Now, the freedom may sometimes bolster it.
Sure.
And he's got authority.
And he can freewheel the Chinese.
Up to now, the Chinese position to us has always been
We'd like to see then that they have never made a statement of fact that they believe something is going to happen.
Now, of course, we could be disappointed again.
The Vietnamese could lie to them the way they'd lie to us and the way our Vietnamese are lying to us.
But that I consider the very significant thing.
The note you read is obviously a note from them and not from a little guy up here.
Oh, no, it's a note from them because at the end he said,
And the Prime Minister added that he wishes you and the President a very happy New Year.
And that makes... Incidentally, that was a very good letter.
I sometimes criticize letters that are written by yourself.
Whoever wrote that one, you probably did yourself.
That we sent to Joe and I.
That was a very warm, good letter.
Well, I think we'll... Did they like the letter?
Oh, yes.
And they thank you and...
Now we are, and I explained to them, I said, look, you remember one thing.
Don't tell us you're not involved.
First of all, we won't yield.
But if we meet a combination of circumstances that should force us out of there on humiliating terms, we will never be able to make good on the provisions of this anti-community case.
against hegemony.
If Americans get the idea, we cannot be vast in anger.
Then I said, the real trouble is going to be lower than into China.
And when we are needed there, we just won't be able to be there.
And on Richard McIntyre,
For ISA, we cannot have that.
We told you not to have it.
We're not going to have it.
What I think would help, Mr. President, but you don't have to get into it.
Alderman will do it.
If we gave him Sonnenfeld for ISA, Sonnenfeld is a hardliner.
Yeah, I know.
It would get him out of here.
He'd watch him for us.
I could then bring Eagle Burger back here.
If the Sonnenfeld job even makes it.
What is ISA?
In the National Security.
They handled the liaison.
Not particularly, but I think we could drag him down if so.
All right.
Do you want me to raise it?
Yeah, I think if you said you'd like Sonnenfeld in there, that would fit.
Do you want more for us?
Yeah.
Oh, shit.
That's the international, what do you call it?
That's the liaison with us.
They handled all this.
A, Jonathan Moore leaves.
B, he's a dove.
He's a dove.
He told me, son, I can't hold you.
That's right.
And I said, well, so did I. I said, I don't care.
I'm pointing you and I'm pointing more.
Sonnenfeld is a hardliner.
He's a pain in the neck, I admit it.
But he doesn't bother me.
But I could then, otherwise if we keep him here, I'll make him one of the deputies.
But I think if I brought Hegelberg in, he's easier to get along with.
He knows this operation.
He's very loyal.
Sonnenfeld could watch Richardson for us.
If you don't want to do it, Haldeman could do it.
But...
It's probably better for Haldeman to do it.
If I needed it specifically.
Then you can...
I don't see lasers.
But...
I shouldn't get into it.
No, you shouldn't get into Sonnenfeld, but you...
He migrates more, and more is really unacceptable.
Sorry.
I had a point.
Yes.
Is that the presidential point?
Yes.
No, I have a point.
But I think, Mr. President, if the negotiations are fought next week, I've thought about confining the bombing zone for 20 years.
I think that's going to be tough because that's going to prolong it.
It's all right.
I think these guys are on the verge of collapsing if they weren't.
they wouldn't be back in Patterson's house.
Combining it a little with the 20th, though, is really the option we're really looking at.
I have to remember that in my own mind.
I left that thing, so I'm going to be there to think if we go to a new year.
That's what I want them to think.
But for my own views, I think I know that Camelback's about ready to break.
these bastards up here in Congress.
Well, the facts with these goddamn resolutions are really helping us, we can't say.
Because they're all tied to the release of prisoners.
Yeah, but they are all interpreted, unfortunately, as end-of-war resolutions.
Yeah, but I think the North Vietnamese
My instinct is, on behalf of it, considerably better than 50-50 chance.
They've been very restrained in their rhetoric.
The North Vietnamese technical meeting yesterday was the best we've had.
I mean, the differences are still big, but at least they tried to deal with them realistically.
And they probably won't settle them before I get there, your view was right.
And this Chinese statement,
I'm sick of the Joint Chiefs.
I'm sick of the way this is operating.
I'm sick of this overlapping.
There aren't going to be four tactical air forces afterwards.
Cut that son of a bitch right out.
We're going to get at it.
You get at it.
This is the very best thing to be done.
Listen, if there's anything that's been proved, it's been proved, goddammit, that you do not need airplanes to bring down bombers.
Goddammit, if they can shoot them at Sam, so can we.
And airplanes are, frankly, they're like the battleship.
They're finished.
They're practically done.
Finished between the two great powers.
I'm sure we'll have a D-1.
The Air Force has got to have something choppy around it.
But the... We have... See, we've been in two directions.
We've done nothing about the reorganization of the Defense Department and getting more for our money.
And we've done nothing on the reorganization of intelligence.
By God, those are two things I personally know I'm going to get into.
But on the Defense Department, they have sabotaged everything.
I know.
The easiest way to handle the command...
is supposing we get an agreement next week that means our command will move from Saigon to Thailand.
And as you're moving it, you should consider that would be the time to put it under one headquarters.
And that would happen in the next month.
That would be the easiest way of doing it.
If the negotiations do not conclude, then I think we should go ahead.
Let me ask you something.
In the event we decide to go forward with the agreement, as I said, a bad agreement on option one is better than a good option two for reasons ahead.
Not many reasons for us.
terribly important reasons for us.
On the one hand, we're keeping.
On the other hand, we're trying to see it through.
And so we'll send it to you then.
But that's okay.
That doesn't bother me that much.
Because in the world, I mean, God has the rest to say, well, God, then we try.
Particularly because of what we did over Christmas.
You see, that's another advantage of the Christmas thing.
We're now in a much better position to make a bad agreement.
You and I know it isn't bad.
But what you will say is a bad agreement than we were before Christmas.
I'm thinking of the inauguration.
I'm thinking back, so forth and so on.
I'm also thinking of the point that the Southfield means and the health of the Air Force at the moment.
Right.
I'm sure there are any such words.
I understand.
I'm not the only one.
Right.
The point is, I'm thinking of a period of five days or so, five or six days.
If you reach freedom, we're gonna reach it.
You're gonna reach it there.
Yourself, you understand?
And then say, no, we'll wind her up, right?
In my view, if you're going to stop the bombing of North Vietnam, I'd stop the bombing in the air period of five days.
Now, let me tell you, there can be no problem with resuming in the event everything collapses.
But my point is that
that if we could go on, I mean, if we can go on and say, well, we don't have a... You see what I'm getting at?
Stopping at North Vietnam is one.
The war still goes on.
Oh, yeah, we're still bombing and all that sort of thing.
It's over.
The...
Put it in the back.
Let me think about it.
The great answer is that they will try to grab as much territory as possible.
They do about a hundred.
The difference is, Mr. President, we do 600 sorties a day.
They do 130.
That's...
And we have, in addition, 100 people to do so.
But it depends on how close we are to the three or four days of concluding the settlement.
You see my point?
Then it could be done.
So we can make that decision.
We've had bombing causes in Vietnam before.
Do you understand what I'm talking about?
I understand.
For no reason.
We've had them before.
Yes, sir.
Tell about it, sir.
Yeah, I'll get it for you.
I think it's something that we could just forget about.
I don't need it.
We'll know by the end of the day.

Nixon, Haldeman & Kissinger on Vietnam War and Press Relations

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Also recorded on January 4, 1973

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