Conversation 834-003

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He's coming in as Executive Vice President of some company on the board, and I'm very pleased with that.

Not happy?

No, it's not.

I think he

You know, if he had all the drugs, he'd rather stay on the science advisor for the president and build the science advisor role.

I think he recognizes now what he's doing with the track.

And he knows that he was given other opportunities.

He appreciated that.

We will be using him as a, you know, outside science guy on that.

Mission type.

That's right.

He's got a stash of it.

It's never made any real money, probably, and see the chance to have you get a little kick up.

He doesn't want to get compromised.

How many others are you going to set up people to encounter?

Say goodbye to her.

My brother goes off now.

We want to take David out, but he's leaving today.

They don't have any, none of these have any power.

They're not, they're not.

It is very effective.

I don't think you really know about it.

Korean stone.

Entering the Korean.

You know that somebody was lynched?

Because we get a lot of stuff going with the Irish.

The others, it doesn't make much difference.

And I think maybe you could do it by phone if you like.

You're not giving any demands to her.

You're just giving her what you want.

But I'm going to be sure to touch base with her and say as little as you can.

But maybe I would have a minute.

You see, here's the problem we've got, which on that

That vote in the Senate the other day, you know, it, uh, which, uh, Percy put up, I don't know, the 16th or 10th, uh, of the 10 that voted against, there were eight of them in the box, and they were pissed off because Percy put it up, and Percy said, let me talk to you.

That's not true.

I, let me say, but Percy said it once, he said it twice.

Well, because then that word now, which they were pissed off at, too.

The reason is that, which we run into, and it's not fair, because Henry has taught the status of Goldwater, and I have too, but the problem is that it's true that every time he's having breakfast with Mansfield, and Henry's sitting in Mansfield, or Percy, or Thorpe, right, we get into space, and it's not Henry's fault, and somebody's got to see him, but on the other hand, they have a, at the present time, I just think that if you just

But just to get it straight, I haven't talked to Percy either personally or on the telephone.

Percy called up Colonel Kennedy.

He quoted something.

It's a total lie.

Percy called up Colonel Kennedy while I was in transit from...

Tom's friends and such memories of him, and said he was trying to keep things on an even keel.

I know that.

I remember Ken called that, too.

My whole point is, though, that the man still might be the straw that brings Tom Campbell's back if they see that, and we don't do it.

So, for him, it's a total trust.

I'm trying to, I know for him, I said, no, because he's very cheap.

I'm going to talk about the information I'm supervising with.

Why?

I don't care.

I'll be glad to do it.

Oh, gee, me too.

You're there to bring Harris.

You know what I mean, Greg?

Oh.

You see, you've got to play it well.

I'll drop, yeah.

Do you think I should talk with him together?

Yeah, I think it's otherwise.

You've got to, I don't know, you should never leave Scott alone.

You can always see Ford alone, you can see Albert alone, like four men still, they'll keep it.

But Scott is a God-manned leaker.

But if you see Scott with somebody else, then he knows that he's getting restrained.

I'll do it.

I'm just thinking, I'm just thinking.

No, but that would be... All I feel, and I'm thinking very briefly, is I want, I've covered the thing, all that could be said here.

But I have not talked to Percy by phone or in any other way.

Since when I told you the day before Christmas, he called me.

Nobody's, I guess, no, no, but he said, I tell you, nobody is raving at this point.

I'm simply saying that down there, and perhaps we need a stronger man, Tim's on the job, I guess, or something, but down there, they've got the impression, they've got the impression that

The hawks are not being talked to.

The people that take us from hand to hand are.

Now, what I want to do is to get it turned around.

Part of the problem is that Rogers is that way.

Rogers talks to Fulbright and Flemington and Mansfield and so forth and so on.

And Laird, Laird, you know, whenever he talks to a hawk.

Now, in fairness, I know, after all, you've talked to Goldwater, my suggestion.

But I saw Goldwater last night.

You talked to Stennis, didn't you?

I talked to Stennis twice.

If you'd put it down so that you would have it for that, you ought to say you had talked to Stennis.

Anybody else?

I talked to Goldwater one hour.

Did you mention that you talked to Teller?

No, I didn't talk to Teller.

Jesus, man, you don't need to know.

I covered it well with this line.

It'll stand up.

But actually, the only call talks, Fulbright, that has been set for many weeks.

I know.

See, they don't know that.

We know that.

And I know all of that, but Percy, but Percy's brokering.

Oh, Percy's trying to be a leader now.

What happened with Persis was that he came in, when he came back from his trip, it was the day before Christmas, and reported about his trip.

We didn't discuss Vietnam at all.

And to tell me that he was going to be 100% behind you, then he called, and I told you about it earlier, he then called, the only thing I saw of this resolution was that Coloculus, or whatever his name is, Coloculus,

Showed me the resolution.

He didn't tell me who it was from and said, do I object to it?

I said, no.

And that's all I knew about the resolution.

But I never talked to Percy at all, in any context, about the resolution, about anything else, except that I had reported on it and complained about it.

Percy is roaring the fact that he goes back to other things, like they know he went out to visit America.

And I think you've done it all just right.

But my point is, I think I just want to pay honor to the other side.

I have to get them to put an order that we want to say we want a new resolution.

So before it's got to that season, it

I don't get them.

I'll get them a lot of them alone.

Because unless the country, really what the country is doing to me is so untreatable

So unpatriotic.

And why they can't wait till February 1st, there is no rational reason for them a week before we go into negotiations to keep the evidence.

We thought they wouldn't remain.

No, but they are determined for their two reasons.

One reason is they want to be ahead in case something works.

That's always been the case.

Even though they don't want to be ahead on the bug out basis.

The other reason is they

Obviously, they've got to have a good look and sense that they know there are hands in time.

We can't tell them why we've done what we've done without putting them in a position where we've forced the enemy back to the cockpit, which is exactly what's happened.

But you can't say that.

That is it.

The way that I put it this morning, I didn't go as far as you're probably going to be able to deliver it, but I just let me tell you what was happening in Vietnam.

I said, in our early October, or October the 8th, there was essentially agreement in principle

a breakthrough in the talks that you talked about yesterday in October.

Late in October, the North Vietnamese, the October, revealed the fact that there had been such a breakthrough and not participated in the conference.

That's the way I handled your statement.

I said, then after the election, we had further meetings, and the North Vietnamese then proceeded to back away from their earlier principles and impose conditions

I didn't know any of what they said.

I said we opposed, without going to field everything too far, I said we opposed conditions that would make the ceasefire totally unforeseen, because I said the international supervisor group was such a, was so inadequate that no neutral nation, thought-respecting nation, could possibly have served upon it.

They imposed conditions regarding the field of the thing that you could not accept without telling them what the condition was, and inserted a number into the thing.

And I said, I sent my application to Paris the last time.

He was to be there for three days.

He stayed ten days.

And I said it was clear at the end of ten days that they were a stalling pack.

I had no intention of reaching a agreement.

Under the circumstances, he returned.

I said, in the meantime, on October the 8th, when it was, when it appeared that we might have a chance to have a degree in the principal when they were negotiating seriously, I suspended the bomb in the heart of Vietnam, above the one in Paraguay.

When it appeared, after Dr.

Fish was meeting with them in Paris, that they, that they were stoned in Paris,

that there was no chance that they backed away from their agreement.

I removed the suspension and went back to the policy of May 8th.

That was two days before the first of the year.

They indicated they were ready to have serious talks again.

We're ready to have serious talks again.

I, again, suspended the law and ignored it.

The point is parallel.

I said, have you done that?

No, I'm not going to be optimistic.

I'm not going to be pessimistic.

I'm just trying to tell you that there's a chance.

I said, I realize most of you in this room, many of you, particularly the Democrats, I disagree, but many of you want us to get out and take our president.

What we want is peace here.

What we want is a ceasefire.

But I didn't quite get attached to them.

But I said, the real question now is whether we're going to have a negotiated peace for the entire area, or whether or not the United States is going to hold its hands with our visitors and simply end our war.

I said, actually, we're going to negotiate.

We're going to negotiate service.

Actually, I'm not going to comment on that.

because while it would make big headlines tomorrow, going on television, it would make a lot of points tomorrow, it could well impair or destroy any chances for the negotiations on that economy.

And I didn't ask for their support.

I simply said, I should reduce it.

Now, you see, that's the line, too.

Now, that is the line.

We know it's the line.

But as far as the Congress is concerned, they're doing as well as they've done previously.

But the unconscionable thing is, this year you've been elected by 61st.

You're not even inaugurated yet.

And you have a negotiation coming up.

But what is happening to the political morality of this country is absolutely frightening.

And that is the scary thing on this.

Everything else we...

can handle, but I also have heard a lot of things are going to be told in the Congress.

We want to consult with you about the European Security Conference.

We want to consult with you about the problems that are going to arise across the world.

Forget it.

We've done the best we can.

But of course, there's nothing we can do here except receive.

I just think if you'll see those two

I just say that as the only thing.

But I would call them if you would and say, come on down.

Don't give them long.

Half and half.

Give them at most.

But can't we say that what we need to do is to have them stand up and say, can't they conduct themselves the way the president did when there was no chance for a negotiation, no serious negotiations in 1968?

I didn't criticize.

There are serious negotiations now underway.

Give us a chance.

I think that's what we ought to do, though, Mr. President.

Can't we get some of our guys to stand up?

Well, I don't know.

We seem to don't have that capability left, right?

Well, I'm with you.

Chuck, on the attack side.

Chuck's understanding is that they've been told not to.

No, I don't mind their treatment.

You told them to keep quiet and not to stir anything up on the internet.

No, no.

What I don't want is to say we bumped it back to the table.

But we can say these bastards, just as we are getting ready to negotiate, they're undermining the position of the president.

I wonder if anybody else negotiates.

I think we want to have the president of the world.

I think we just get rid of that, but if you want to get, I think you're just better at understanding this.

Henry, I just, I might as well get your hand to it.

My experience with the Democrats is... Why not?

Why not?

I think the only thing... What matters here is where it ends up, not what happens right this next week or so.

That's my view.

I mean, I believe, you know, we could have been...

It would have been a lot easier for me, basically, to go out and simply tell everybody we bombed them back at the table and all that.

I can say that.

But it would destroy the negotiations.

The reason that I haven't done that is that I have been...

negotiations.

You know that, Henry.

And I told that to Harris, and I told it to Mansfield, and I told these guys this morning.

It's about to be that spring.

I don't think taking the Democrats on is going to make any damn difference right now.

They've already voted, see?

I did take them on next week.

Well, Mansfield's not going to go to the Senate, though, is he?

He can't have a vote now.

And he said there's going to be a vote.

No, no, no, no.

The caucuses, well, I know the Democratic caucus, but they're not going to, the Kennedy resolution is not coming to a level.

So you've got to, the Democrats are really, that's what we're talking about.

What we're talking about is something that's already done.

The Democratic caucus is in that right-hand corner of the South.

They're voting on it.

They're voting on both sides.

They have done this preach.

They have done it again.

That just works.

Of course there's going to be people coming.

But our experience has been that whenever we attacked their patriotism, they started running for cover.

Right now, they've got this deal.

I wouldn't say anything about why we did what we did.

I would just feel that somebody ought to say that this is an outrage.

I want you to call Colson and talk to him.

Because he said, I called him.

He called me after you.

He talked to you and said you didn't want him to say anything.

I don't want him to say to explain why we fought.

Let me say it.

Colson would follow up on anything, but, you know, he follows through a letter.

So if you, if you wanted to, if you really wanted to go out and attack men on their patriotism, go do it.

That's what I think you should do.

I don't think you should explain why you did it.

That would do if it succeeds.

All you do with why you did it is the way I did it this morning, where I just said, here's what happened.

Tell them the historical evidence, and then let them draw their own conclusions.

Our own means of drawing conclusions.

See, part of our problem here is that we've got Laird and Brock Rogers' muscles.

We're not letting them do it, sir.

And that's a good idea because they're both saying the wrong thing.

Now, Laird wants to have a press conference today, but I don't.

I think it'll only end this morning.

I am convinced that what Laird wants to do is to position himself separate from us.

We keep getting a lot of things, but they know for a fact that Laird is opposed to it.

Was opposed to the department.

Was he?

Not allowed.

Yeah, he probably was opposed to it.

He never said so.

He said he wrote a letter.

He didn't have the letter.

What's he referring to yesterday about some letter he sent you?

Oh, he's written you a letter saying that any agreement, no matter how bad, is better than no agreement.

And that was a profound insight, but we weren't in a position to get an agreement.

You and I talked about that, but they all have a question.

How often?

Mr. President, if these cabinet members, in addition, if they had walked in here and said one encouraging thing, but in addition, it isn't right for a cabinet member to write you a letter which he can then pull out later to cover his ass.

It's easy enough if he has any concerns to call me or call you and get it to you.

We don't have that for any of our cats.

But Laird has never failed in a crime.

That's right.

They'll step up to a man, but not a woman.

You know, this morning, I mean, I think how good you were dismissed yesterday.

There's an article in the New York Times saying the Shafi treatment you and I...

Gaston Smith is sought by his indifference to have been the chief actor in his resignation.

And it's all right, but the difference... Well, we have.

We have.

We've not given him a shabby treatment in the sense that we didn't give him as much credit as he wanted to because he didn't deserve it.

He didn't deserve it.

And he's done now.

And that's exactly who we originally reached out to.

You didn't give him charity treatment.

Hell, we gave him a chance to screw up.

He had the press totally turned off his own degree.

Look, we're going to have that country with all the people that leave, ambassadors that leave, the State Department people that leave, and others.

But that's part of the cost.

That's part of the cost.

And the thing to do is to take the pain and get it done.

Good God, I'm going to get Roger Slater out of this thing.

I'm going to be a lot better off than the men.

That's what I'm saying.

Let's face it.

He's a dove.

He's a dove, but he'll say it in years.

And after you've ruled against him, he'll do what you tell him.

You don't object to his opposing you while the decision is being made.

If he has a different view, you want to hear it.

But he would not.

Mr. Booth get out that he was opposed to it all along.

He wouldn't write you a letter.

Prior to every decision, a letter came in here from Laird.

At least now you shouldn't write letters.

No, I just shouldn't do that.

Well, you know, he's a good lawyer.

He knows how to help with letters and records.

But Laird...

They're going to be with us if it works and not with us if it doesn't.

That's the way it's going to be.

My instinct is it's going to work.

Yeah.

Well, I know about the crisis of gift payments and cardholders and those people.

They've got to work that time.

A very affirmative baseline won't be a problem in any way.

And not on a negative, you know, defensive basis.

That's really the problem.

Things that are going to be...

But I must say, Henry, Colson had an impression of me.

Oh, he tried.

He told me.

He said, I said, well, Chuck, I put my rights.

He told me.

He said, all right, ask him.

And he called me.

He said, Henry says, say nothing.

I said, all right.

I said, anything.

I said, don't do anything that hurts the negotiations.

That's my group.

I said, we'll take the heat.

Chuck said, OK, we can take it.

Now, that's not exactly what we said, so it's not his fault.

No, it isn't.

He asked me whether we should give our hogs an explanation of why we did it.

I was opposed to that last night.

I'm still opposed to it.

We can't.

We can't do that.

No.

But I told him that I thought there was a chance that he said if we could break it next week, then we're better off keeping quiet.

I said the odds are good enough.

for us to play that gamble.

Well, I'll tell you, when I got through and started meeting with the others, they were very good.

But that's good.

Well, I played the pessimistic, not pessimistic, I just said I might not be optimistic about it.

That's much better.

I said, and I said, the policy of no bombing the North will remain as long as the doctor serves, which left the invitation that I wrote my resume in the morning, too.

That's it.

I think that's it, I'd say.

Part of the problem here is that we just can't have these fighters

And, of course, we've had this trouble all summer long.

These bastards were putting through resolutions in the Congress, not because you were bombing at that time, but because they thought you were going to succeed.

And they wanted to be able to say they got ahead of you.

Now they're putting through resolutions because they think we're going to fail.

Well, that's all.

They played either way.

Let me say this.

You just go ahead.

I hope you have breakfast.

I was having breakfast because I was going up to Camp David.

Well, can I just say, God damn it.

He has been unconscious all this time.

I have never liked when they, I have already said to Nancy, they have to take responsibility.

If they want to take responsibility, because I described the resolution of the Democrats as being a bugger.

Basically, I said, this is what it is, even though we may have to come to it.

That was a good idea.

I separated it by several sentences, so I said, you can either do that or you can have peace with honor.

Peace with honor is what we're trying to do.

The reason why I'm more relaxed about these resolutions is technical agreement means like and less for their reasons than their, what we are negotiating.

Both of us have reasons to be of a democratic resolution, thank God.

or they both really destroy our political position.

I mean, it's a masterful resolution from that point of view.

First both sides.

But my instinct is from the, I mean, also from the way the Chinese treated the

treated this visit of lead on total as deferring the heat on them.

Incidentally, I saw your memorandum in regard to the silly-ass mechanic.

My view is, don't withdraw the ambassador now.

He's such an ass.

I wouldn't pay him no attention, but I would do it later.

In other words, kick him in the ass later.

Why escalate the issue?

I saw that.

I guess how many people paid any attention to his call for our action?

We were drawing the basketball and more people paid attention.

I just said forget it.

at this point, and later on.

That's an ambassador we plan to replace anyway, so you could recall him when you feel like it.

A lady?

Yeah.

Good.

And, uh, to represent the college, and then I'll put in most of her life.

But we can certainly wait until after the negotiation.

Sure.

Well, if you want Colston to, you want to follow through with Bob, or what?

Who's going to follow through?

Henry has to tell them what he wants them to do.

Cover them up, Bob.

I'll call Chuck and maybe he can't be done without doing more.

I saw Coldwater last night at the reception for Hayes.

And he's completely, 100% with us.

He doesn't feel neglected.

And he's apparently the one exception.

I haven't found anybody else.

Everybody else is whining.

Everyone's having a hell of a problem with everybody.

Micros are having a problem.

Shells are down in the mouth.

Shit, I never saw it.

Demons looks to be hanging.

Great.

You can't do business that way about it.

You've got to act as if they're winners.

Boom.

Step up there.

I didn't play it defensively this morning.

I played it.

It's actually the other way.

They started an offensive in the south in the last three or four years, which I like.

I mean, that is a pretty good indication that they're preparing to settle.

Not quite seriously.

That means they're trying to grab territory.

They haven't got that many assets that they can raise them.

That's what they did in October.

And it may be that one reason they didn't do it, settle in December, is they didn't have that for a different place.

You know, my choice really is peace.

Although we realize it's a fragile peace.

It's a ceasefire.

And we have a political process.

and simply get our prisoners of war out and stop military activities.

In other words, just quit and let the war go on.

Any responsible person said, well, Jesus, let's go the extra mile and get the first.

Of course.

That's what I said to these guys this morning.

That's the argument for the first, Mr. President.

could even work out better.

But for the United States to have fought for 10 years just to get its prisoners back, it's just a tough position.

And in Thailand, Indonesia, any place where they depend on us, it's going to be a hell of a complex case to make that it may be a better deal.

The first one cynically puts it all on mute if it fails.

And that's sort of... That's why... Well, anyway, I don't know whether...

I don't have the words to hand Colson Dredd a chance on the tax on these guys, because you're not... You're a spader in the bombshells.

But you...

I view it on balance as not to, because I don't think it makes any difference.

But I don't feel a strong expectation that we can get enough of him.

That's why I...

except that it keeps that going.

I would rather have the focus now on the negotiations.

I'd rather be rolling my eyes outward and saying I can't say anything because we're talking.

That's right.

Let the cameras focus on the law.

That's right.

And hope that it comes out.

And if it comes out, then we've ridden through another bad week, and it doesn't make any difference if it doesn't come out.

Are having a little bit about the Democrats' treasonous actions, is it going to make any difference this weekend?

I don't think there's much.

I don't know if that's okay.

Yeah, well, what I'm going to do is you come up and see me at Camp A tomorrow.

I don't believe there's tomorrow.

There's going to be tomorrow.

I'm sorry.

I can't think that anybody feels you're not serious.

Oh, Mr. President, when these people think... First of all, of course, I believe the overwhelming majority of the American people want to believe that their president is serious and believe it.

They do have the problem now in not knowing exactly what the hell is going on.

But I have no question that this isn't the right time.

But if you went on television and said, now, I'm being quiet...

But I want to tell you why I did what I did.

And it is uncomfortable or something like that.

You could rally them again.

Because I just, when you get out of Washington, I just don't find people who are that critical.

I don't think the bombing bothers people.

It bothers the goddamn intellectuals.

It bothered people, but it bothered them the same way that bad weather bothers them.

They bothered for a reason.

Whether it was bombing or anything else, it bothered them for the reason that they thought, well, thank God, we're finally ending the end of the war.

Oh, Christ, it's going on.

It wouldn't have made it.

We could have bombed.

We could have shelled.

We could have sent another battalion of Marines

or a hospital could have been blown up or anything.

The point is, it bothered them the same way that Laos bothered them.

At Laos, they all thought, you know, people were thinking, things are going pretty well.

You know, I actually can't believe the thing.

The casualties went down that fall and everything.

And all of a sudden, oh, shit, here the damn war is going on.

We're invading another country.

Now, the bombing thing and the mind of the people would not have bothered them.

would not have bothered them, had it not been preceded by their hopes being raised.

Their hopes were raised not by so much like we said, but by what the press took at random.

They took it for granted and said, wait, oh, the winds of peace and all that sort of thing.

And they were grateful.

Now, when people get their hopes raised, they say, oh, Christ, the war is going on, and you get bothered and so forth.

It wasn't the mob.

So much as it was the fact that they thought, oh, god damn it, it's the war.

Why the hell don't we get a war over with?

That's what it is to me.

So therefore, we won't raise their hopes.

We won't.

They said last year, 293 people were killed in Vietnam, less than were killed in one week in 1968.

Which was actually, they said all last year, less people were killed in Vietnam than in one week in 1968.

We went all the district numbers like blankets up.

So you got a reason to...

Yeah, and we just do the best we can, and you go over there.

But we've got... Everything.

We've got through these things.

I didn't want everybody to run for that.

I remember at the time of Cambodia, we had a great foreign policy the next.

And we had a year of a great foreign policy not there at our throats again.

Yeah.

If by February 1st we have a settlement, it will go way up again.

The way it's supposed to go.

Now, no president has ever faced, at least not this election, death is no excuse for the fact that the minute it's like this, it goes wrong.

The whole bloody establishment.

In actuality, one serious question.

Why doesn't McLeod say, now, just a minute, he's the president.

He was elected by 61%.

Maybe I disagree with his tactics.

But what could he have had in mind?

Is it right to undermine the authority of a president before he's even taken office?

That's what you got an establishment for.

This cheap, tawdry attack

I don't know, an awful lot of them, Henry, are just fighting to say what really is the most that we want to say.

Yeah, but you didn't like their chance to get back.

They're trying to, they're trying to, they're, frankly, they're just being partisan.

But Mr. Benson, you didn't like that.

Our Republicans are assholes because we haven't had strong people either.

I mean, uh,

Yes, but there's a limit to partisanship.

You could have gone around in 1960 and claimed fraud.

Why didn't you do it?

Because you felt that the damage it would do to the body's politics was worth it.

You could have screamed about the Bay of Pigs with better reason than they have.

By far, you didn't do it.

There is some limit.

You cannot have a democracy.

That's why I want you to be man-to-man.

without some self-restraint.

I can leave the impression, for example, with him, too, that the POW for withdrawal thing might not work.

I can leave that a thing.

It won't work.

I think you should tell him.

Tell him that, sir.

I think you should tell him.

You know, how you can do it better.

You know, Senator, I feel it's my obligation to tell you that that's been offered before and that they've turned it down.

I told him.

I don't.

I'm just afraid of that, because we may have to come to it.

I know.

OK, don't tell him.

But I don't like, I have no use for Matt Field.

Everyone says he's a saintly person.

He certainly never been saintly to us.

I don't drink.

I claim the same out to the hills here because of the damn fact that I have another reason to claim right at the moment, the confirmations.

I want the son of a bitch to bring them up, you know,

But on the other hand, once this is over, then on a bipartisan day, we're going to have larger groups.

I'm used to seeing .

I'll see it about once every two, three months, and then larger groups.

But I'll look at that.

He's never done it.

I don't recall in foreign policy that he's ever done it that good.

He's never been .

Never.

Yeah, come on in.

Yeah.

I want to just take down .

I thought I would give a general briefing on the re-organization part of it, the direction part of it.

But John, follow up on that, too, with the wage and pricing.

But more importantly, I took very careful notes of what you said on Vietnam.

And I'd like to just about repeat all of that.

Well, the only reason I suggest that is to be pretty clear with you.

You know, point out the

the chronology of finances and development.

And I would not read directly from the notes, but I would refer to the points.

All right, why don't you engage in what you'd like to say?

Well, I think there's several points.

First of all, you understand that the differences that do exist.

As you said before, you have to proceed with the policy direction if it was right.

That's the first point to make.

The second point is that...

You referred to the progress that we have made in the last four years.

No, not as non-combatant support.

Third point is, the President, again, repeated the fact that the May 8th policy, which has been announced as an effect, the May 8th policy was put forth and accomplished three basic things.

Releasing the POWs, releasing the fire, and the right of the South Indians to turn their own future.

And then moved right from there into the pre-chronology that you gave

On October the 8th, we mined the harbor and bombed.

On May, we mined the harbor and bombed.

On October the 8th, Dr. Kessinger, there was a breakthrough in the talks of parents.

Dr. Kessinger, you got told to reach an agreement in principle on these three major objectives.

Yes, sir.

However, there were still some matters to be worked on.

By reason of that progress that had been made, at that time, I suspended the bond above prime imperative.

And October 26th, the North Vietnamese publicly announced

That such agreement reached all three major issues.

You know?

You got that?

Yes, sir.

All right.

Dr. Hittinger confirmed that.

That's all he's saying.

Right.

See, that's his piece of imagery.

So then, after the election, they backed away from that.

They imposed convictions on President P.O.W., sir.

Yes, I understand.

This is not to put any conditions in close conditions with regard to the recent POWs that were unacceptable.

They proposed the...

They refused the international...

The ceasefire supervisory group was so flimsy in effect

that no self-respecting, lucid country would possibly serve them on, and a number of other dilatorian and, say, dilatorian others.

conditions where I had no conditions where I had, which, uh, where I saw, uh, President sent Dr. Kirsch back to Paris to negotiate again, so he agreed in, he stayed 10 days.

At the end of the 10 days, it was clear that they were, that they were in a stalling pattern, and during that stalling period, there was a continuing buildup in North Yukon, and an increase in immigration itself.

clear that they were not going to be restrained.

They had backed away from their reign that they had made in October.

They had backed away from the position that they had reached in October.

And they were, so he returned.

And that's why the president removed the suspension of the mandate policy, which he had applied in early October.

And then just over then, two days before the first of the year, he was willing to return to us and negotiate a service.

Once that, we received that message from the President.

Again, under the suspension of the May policy, as far as I can remember, that order will remain in effect as long as...

They say, Rob, that means that they don't know who they're talking to.

I understand what you're saying.

But I'm not going to tell you that I'm not going to be optimistic.

I'm not going to be .

I can only say there's a chance to accomplish our goal of peace of mind and end the war.

I mean, to end the killing of children, not just in America.

Withdrawal for our prisoners who should lead the war going on and not have to have a killing continue.

I can't believe it.

He's got all this .

Well, I think you're in there where you point out very clearly.

Men of good will will disagree on this subject.

But also men in this country want peace.

And nobody wants it more than I do.

But I believe that we can achieve it.

But I believe that the kind of peace, the negotiated peace, some that I lay out, which will bring real peace, rather than the kind of peace, rather than the United States simply throwing on its hands

getting out, letting the war go on.

That is the peace that we seek.

Well, go ahead.

Well, there's some of our people back home around here.

Go ahead.

There's a New York Times story this morning.

said that we had not received any previous invitations in order to be in the meetings.

You know, they were going to talk seriously.

We had not?

Yeah.

I will enjoy saying that, you know, quoting you as saying, we received words in the order to be in the meetings that they were prepared to return to the table and enter in saying that they were going to be in the meeting.

What did they say we received?

Nothing.

No, they said that they applied that we received a message that they were willing to return to the talks.

What the trust was that we stopped the bombing because they returned to the talks.

But what we're saying here is that we did receive word that they were going to be on the search.

Whether or not they will, I don't remain to be seen.

We're prepared to talk seriously.

They told us that they were prepared to talk seriously.

That's the key.

They told us they were prepared to talk seriously.

And I think it's actually, and I'll paraphrase, it's the perception that you refer to the fact that it would not serve the national interest, it would not be in the national interest to adjust the substance of the negotiating chief.

Yeah, and this idea is that I could use it.

I could go on television and make a statement with regard to the substance of these talks about the outstanding issues, but it would not serve the goal that we seek.

I will, however, as developments occur, Congress will personally inform and consult as developments occur.

You may recall I said that.

Yes, sir.

Now, on the Democrat article this morning, this is the one final thing, that referred to the fact that Hillary had opposed the bombing

If I'm asked that, I'm going to .

Right.

That's the line there.

But what I'm going to say is simply, I'm going to shoot it down in the hardest terms.

And I'm going to say that I was around Kissinger during that period.

And I was around the discussion that occurred.

And there is absolutely no validity to that.

Henry Kissinger

I think they have the achievement now, too.

Are you sure?

In my life.

He said he did, so I think he did.

I'm going to say that Henry Kissinger supported the May policy.

He supported the May policy, which is now supported by everybody's direction.

Donald, the unsupported recommended it.

I believe that the unsupported recommended it.

And every action taken since then, I don't support or recommend it.

Anybody who says otherwise is not informed.

No, that's all.

This carries on.

At 2 o'clock we will do everything.

I thought his presentation was very clear this morning.

I don't think I'm going to bother with it.

I don't want the press to think that these assholes are coming in here today and they don't mind.

They just have all the tape pictures because that will take away from John's presentation.

I don't mind.

The pictures you'll use today would be a commercial that you should read.

No, I don't mind.

It's that story.

And mine is, too.

You come in here, and it takes five minutes on Earth, and Jack has to sit here, and I sit with those assholes.

Linopolis.

I've got to say it's time.

I've got these meetings all coming up.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

One final point.

I have a good pool.

We may have to call around.

They appreciate it very much, their wives, but I've got a little, you know, ball on it, so I won't do it.

I think some of you won't have their wives.

I agree with that.

They're going to be there.

Yes.

Well, I don't know what you could do with him.

But that's .

I think he just left the .

He must have .

Because people wouldn't.

I don't think he said it any, any clear right at least.

He said, well, well, I was right that it had to be done, but the president felt that we had to move, or you know what I mean?

Emory may have said, well, the president felt this, and I went along, you know what I mean?

Or the president decided that.

Rather, he tends, you know, like somebody has said, you know, he made his best pieces at hand, so he mentioned the person twice, and he made his second, so he mentioned it twelve times.

Well, now that's just a breaking the slip, that's all.

But somebody else, once you ask him about what he, what he, what he asked him about when he dropped, he said,

Ron was just going over his briefing stuff, and the question arises as to what he should say about that.

You know, just as you're opposing Obama, is he, how should he approach that?

Any of that take you on that?

Right.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay.

I saw that one.

Yeah.

All right.

Okay.

He says Kraft didn't hit him that way, which I didn't think he had either.

Kraft said he should resign because he had sat in the back of the White House.

That's the part I didn't understand.

I will say on this issue that I was in total agreement.

And he says, Zingo, should you shoot it then?

I said, no question.

That is my purpose.

I don't use weapons.

He didn't come running off.

He knows better than I do.

I don't know.

I don't know that anybody's capable of doing that.

No matter how many times we get sued by those people who are turning walls and recognizing that there's nowhere that each time they come back, it's just like our professors and our colleagues that always keep coming.

The one way they always bounce out is to move along and intercede and change their mind.

So I'm pleased about it.

It's hard, but everybody wants to and they trust their industry to walk the way of it.

Well, I've got to agree.

One, I might have a great chance of smaller spectrum.

Two, I want to do things with Ron Rodgers.

I'm going to get rid of him.

Amen.

I agree with Ron Rodgers.

I'm going to get rid of him.

Which, of course, Roger's had before.

Roger's been in public eye for long enough.

He has a little bit better balance than Henry.

Than Henry, sir.

He seems to have had a long time looking at yesterday afternoon.

He seems to be having a very positive living as far as he's, uh, Henry always says, you know, tomorrow, I mean, I'm negotiating, it's just not his attitude towards, and it's always, well, I see.

Oh, yeah.

He always has a 52% chance.

Yeah, I'd say 60-40, say 50-50.

Yeah, 30-70.

Yeah.

So that's how he made Dr. Krapp directly.

He would stand in the back, quiet.

Who's Krapp?

It was Krapp to fly.

He says, Krapp said that?

No, no.

I think Krapp, when he was Krapp, there's a group that's trying to make a case that they're up in high air.

Because we present his publicity in his free-swinging ways.

Oh, shit.

Henry, I don't believe he believes that.

I think he believes in scouting.

Or maybe he just chooses to believe in scouting.

I don't know.

But he has a persecution trend in any way.

They're out to get me.

They, they, they.

I said, who is there?

Well, it's the state.

It's the state.

Well, I'm not sure.

I don't have a strong feeling about it.

Okay, well, I don't think it's probably worth my time.

I just think it's unhybridized, or the Congress is trying to pay much more attention to the veterans.

Right now, we're all interested in all that congressional stuff.

I don't think much of anybody else...

People, it's got to play out.

We all know that.

But my point is, so the Congress is that.

But the elections are over now.

If we were just for elections, then we'd be doing it.

I think we just, yeah.

I think, well, I think we've got to be more positive about it.

I think that the Congress, I mean, everybody I've heard of them, and Stolz and everybody, you know, they did fine this morning.

I'm not complaining about that.

I have very, very bad thoughts about the times of my life.

I don't want you to steal it.

Right now, boy, you just cannot be dying.

Amen.

Well, that's wonderful.

That should help you do a little bit better.

All right, boy, I know we had a long, long, long cut again.

Thank you.

Well, we couldn't have done it.

That's a great risk.

I think he would have wanted to take it.

I'm glad I mentioned this to Ron about the picture.

You know, we go overboard, right?

These assholes in here take pictures and all that, and they only use one.

But if you get a congressional, if you get a vote out and they start a practice, they have, and I don't have to say, that's not possible.

I shouldn't have to do that, but Ron, they shoot in there, they were in there, and we wanted to get this started earlier.

They were in there three, four minutes.

They lost, you know, kept running around.

That's all.

I've told Rob a number of times, cut him.

Cut him.

Get him out.

You know, but, well, the Tuckers always want to stay with the winner so as to get something.

Right?

They can sell seven sets as long as they can.

They'll get the classic picture.

That's not to your interest.

I'm sorry.

You know, it's a small thing, but they were typical of the people who would dig around and find that, you know, that metal certainly paid to muggle or crop the metal and so forth.

Of course, as you know, that doesn't want to happen at all.

he stepped through opening it up and got it to have this new aid and had the wrong kind of pins on it and so it went off and broke back and just fell to the floor and regressed it back and fell off so I picked it up turned it around and started to lock the pins in in other words it was the pins that had to just fell off because of the pin maintenance I didn't like the aid I had in it

They just weren't strong enough to dig in.

And I lay my head back and don't look at the end.

I said, don't look.

Now, you can do your best to try to get in that little step.

Don't you write a thing?

We started hiring the right people.

John and Henry, Bob, do not take more of a responsibility for the PR side themselves.

They can't expect me, like every goddamn issue, to say, well, the Congress is doing this, what are you guys doing?

They can't lob out of things, policies, and they're not fighting them.

You know what I mean?

I'd say, well, let's work out of those laws a little bit.

No, that's absolutely right.

I just don't know who the hell got around here to do it, but I can't do it.

You'll have to take responsibility for not taking my ass.

And that would be killing my ass, too.

It's their job to sell the drugs.

And their job is to fight it back.

Do the best you can.

Yeah, but you can't just turn and say, that's the best guy to do it.

That's defending...

I know.

Our people are, as I said, we're so obsessed with substance.

And Henry Curry is, you know, he's really analyzing the problem.

Really, everything, PR, the only one that happens to go about something he personally is involved in, is that only if it's a person involved in a personal way or something to do with his responsibility.

Otherwise, it's what he did.

What difference does it make to you right now?

You've got these two days, and they have no chance to succeed.

They're going to look all goddamn bad at you, and they should take it on that.

That's the time when you've got the other hand.

And you aren't restrained.

The problem is now we are restrained.

Of course, it's the point of shouldn't go out and tell them why the original bombing is a deadlock, because that you really can't do.

And don't go running around and just get kids and say, hey, what does that do?

And the gardener would say, well, to say that they are jeopardizing the talks, well, then maybe you should have stayed out afterwards.

You've got to recognize that.

If the talks are seen as things that jeopardize it, it doesn't do any good.

It doesn't make any difference.

The talks fail and afterwards God will say, I'm glad you didn't jeopardize it.

You don't need to make the case now.

Make it what it means somehow.

Now it jeopardizes something.

And now it's on your hands.

You can at that point, if you have to, you can congressionalize the war and let them take the blame for it.

They mixed and I said, I want to count back.

He tried to do the right thing.

Horrible thing to do.

It's a temptation to control.

I must control too.

I'll try to have to.

Anything was no problem.

He was basically such a negative personality at that time.

All these men do it.

It's fine.

And he's been, and he's been, it's about every bit of the way.

But I agree, they had a little performance system on his part.

So you can understand Rogers as either Henry or Rachel.

What the hell?

He's probably, frankly, as believable in an ironic way, because he thinks he's making Henry look bad.

That's a pretty small thing for him to do.

But it's totally understandable.

Larry would understand for other reasons.

Just that kind of a person is what I would play.

I've always stayed in the cheap shop and made anything out of anything he can and made himself look good.

But hey, I don't know.

What do you think about it?

You're keeping in touch with the company, aren't you?

Yeah, we've got to talk about it for the next couple of days.

I want him to know that it's better than that so that he doesn't expect to see me.

He wants to see me and I want him to see me.

And on this too, Steve Scott gave you this, and Jack Miller, and Walter Miller.

Now, it couldn't be done in that way, but just in a way, whoever, who is it?

Somebody, I don't know, I don't want to see it.

Who is it?

I don't know.

Mallory?

Just I wanted to know that I had an idea that was being considered, but I had not.

He said the president is not seeing people on, on, on, on with regard to the migrants until the city turned it off.

But I know what he wants.

To control his attention.

He's a minor, a bitch.

I don't think I can get him to hear the team.

He wants to be a judge.

He wants to be head of the IRS.

He's trying to be the judge.

Pretend you're agreed to visit that room today.

You will follow up and see that somebody has let us know or not, but I got the message.

I have it.

It's bad people, but look at the situation.

I can't do it now.

I'm coming to do it.

I said I'd like to see him after the operation.

It was a ranger sometime that week.

Of course, commonly, this guy makes his money.

He's very bogged.

He will continue to be my son.

Well, there's just some stuff out now.

There's a Novak home today or something with Aunt Katie's.

He's starting to put some stuff out that he's going to ship.

What's wrong with the Democratic Party?

The Texas Republicans would walk in.

This Republican, which was the one who got their hearts broken, said that.

One of them, she was going to say that she made it through some of this, too.

We have to go back to his home.

his own insistence on trying to make himself a hero before the election, pushing the passage, and then proceeding to be aggravated by his state, which I figured that was not going to help much, and then getting hung out of there so that the governor knew that we had to have it.

Now, if you've got to have something, the other vote doesn't have to have it.

It's not that the price is too high.

And that's just what happened to him.

That's all.

And we got into a position where, and then also Henry has always figured, well, we don't get it.

You know, we can go back to military actions.

He always thinks purely, he thinks purely historical terms.

He says, well, we did it before.

He says, why don't you make another one?

Why don't you make another A or something?

And it's never the same, Bob.

It's never the same.

You can have military action.

You can do something like that.

You can go to Cambodia once, but you can't go again.

You see my point?

That Laos didn't work for partly for that reason.

I mean, that's our focus.

That's it.

Cambodia, we brought it off.

Laos, we really didn't.

Laos was a failure.

Laos, they were probably sued.

They were a military failure.

They were wrong.

Or Cambodia was a

an enormous success, and, you know, finally got through it.

I'm not sure.

Maybe he had the advantage of just having to catch the COVID move at the right time.

I mean, it's true that Bader didn't fly out there, and the Russian summer ball didn't.

which made people forget about the fact that we were bombing our Vietnam for months.

A block over the 8th, or maybe a block over the 8th, bombed by a radio.

But, yeah.

But Henry said,

And so everybody said, well, he said so, but he didn't talk to Percy.

So we're to see, but guess what?

He is not really.

He had to talk to Percy.

Percy did come to see him.

He came to see him right before Christmas.

See what I mean?

In fact, what he was saying is, of course, that he had to talk to Percy lately about the resolutions.

See, and we can't, we cannot tell the precise truth about what he has done.

And then when he got out, he told me he had to talk to the rest of the team.

And then he remembered he did talk to them by telephone.

Yeah.

And so that's why we're raising this whole hell of a bunch of guns.

They hate Percy down there.

They really do.

I know.

They don't want Percy to be president.

Well, if they don't, Percy can't be president.

I always say hello to them, too.

I'm kind of a...

You know, Stray Arrow, Saint Divine, or Grant Barber, Conable, Martin Luther King, John O'Connor, especially John Coward.

You had Stray Arrow, but he followed the concepts with 100% belief.

And to have been like that, I didn't understand that completely.

It would have pissed the hell out of me in that position to have, to let that son of a bitch come wandering around and suck it in here.

That doesn't help.

It doesn't help the religions any.

I didn't hear, oh, he needs to, with the grand power, the race money, I didn't hear he needs the full reaction.

He's going on.

He is a liberal.

People, he is liberal, conservative, he's in the military.

It's a very real state.

It's a hell of a state.

It's not Rogers.

I mean, he's a full writer.

It's Rogers' fiction about that.

Rogers has it on absolute authority.

He says that he had breakfast with Rogers somewhere.

And he says it isn't true.

He just talked to him on the phone.

Where?

In Paris, right?

Yeah.

What, Paris?

Yeah.

Paris or somewhere.

But not Houston?

No.

I don't think it is to me.

That's so silly, though.

Why don't you tell us?

He's embarrassed about it.

It's a compulsion of mine.

Whether it's like the guy that eats candy or drinks too much or something.

He's an alcoholic for that kind of stuff.

He has a...

I have a craving just as bad as the alcoholics or the compulsive eaters or the sex maniacs or anyone else's.

And he's embarrassed about it.

I think he knows he's wrong.

He tries to pretend he doesn't do it while he was right at doing it.

It's like a little child dealing with it.

It's like just exactly like being a seven-year-old.

Yeah.

Well, you did a hard look, if you will, at the Colson Ziegler.

him and his capability involved.

And you just gotta remember, I just can't take the whole thing here.

And all that.

Or, there's plenty of them there.

And much of those, apparently, too, they're, uh, they're being robbed.

I've gotta assume somebody in this shot is, is going to, you know, wreck this thing, you know, on PR standpoint, and, and, uh, handle it, too.

And, uh,

Colson has his falls and everyone for the peace.

He doesn't do anything.

He takes a mission.

He's gone over the sea and has received the command to do anything for us.

Now who's going to be doing what we have to do?

That's what I want to hear.

I'm taking an issue about that kind of thing.

Colson does do any kind of fighting.

We've got to do it in our daily meeting in the morning.

With Ron, too, because Ron also is good at the raising worthy initiative.

Well, let me say, I think with your daily meeting, you ought to have timbers there, too.

We are.

Okay.

We are.

But you better have that.

I guess you can suck all other things.

I think the Republicans and the leadership, the senior leaders of the state are the same.

It's just what it's always been.

I don't think we've failed, or you've failed, or anybody here has failed.

I don't think there's a – I don't think it's possible to deal with those people on any better basis than we are dealing with.

I do think we can do a much better job of dealing with the non-leaders in Congress on both Democratic and Republican side, and that that's what we've got to work out of the way we need to do it, even if it means taking a whole separate congressional liaison group than this.

or something that, uh,

And Dole, now that we've talked about his ass kicked out, is doing a hell of a good job.

He went on the Today Show or CBS News or one of those things and backed this thing around day one yesterday.

And you say nobody on the Hill is doing it.

And Dole did.

It's gone national television doing it.

And Dole, I have a theme.

W-R-D-E.

that getting to go out of the committee may gain us a value on us.

In fact, we 50% or 80% lost while we were in the committee.

In that, once he gets back as a free-wheeling senator, again, we can work with him on a different kind of basis.

And I think we'll find he's at home the next time.

Speak your name out to the governor.

That's former national chairman.

That's right.

That's a national promise that he didn't have before.

And he's up for our election, so he's got the thirst for notoriety that, yeah.

But, okay.

Well, I don't think it was Scott.

I wonder where we are.

We're four down.

Boy, all of these suits of him.

Square pedestrian.

that I don't think there's a hell of a lot of work to be done than he is.

And then you get all those old guys that have cotton and cotton fell asleep again.

Well, Sunday Channel, the poor guy, he's a russet.

And that's why you're just not going to get much out of, I think, with Brock if he gets burned.

That will help some.

divine, chronicle, some of those people .

But it's, I don't, I don't.

Of course, the other side is what the presidential contenders decided the problem was.

You've got to have anybody with any motivation.

The opposition does.

You've got Fulbright with his continuing motivation for just basic evil.

And you've got Kennedy with his motivation for personal power.

Simon, Timothy, of course, Simon is very responsive to seeing that.

Helps to put his own being out there to wobble around.

But you got a bear who stands up, back the way out.

Stands too little once in a while.

I've heard of this funny zombie.

I've never had somebody act.

But he hasn't done too good.

He hasn't done anything.

I think they're going to be able to reward them.

They've got to do whatever they want.

They're going to hold their own in the war.

If it ends, this is what we want.

We forced the president to do it.

They're trying to say they forced you to stop the bombing, too.

All right.

But the bombing, you didn't stop the bombing because you got a peace deal.

You stopped the bombing because of public pressure and all that sort of stuff.

You ended it.

Of course, that's a line that some of them are trying to build.

I don't think you're getting anywhere with it anymore.

Well, because I know that it would say it's not playing, and not playing except as a column, that kind of thing.

Well, but even the columns don't accept it.

They only record it and then shoot it down, basically.

But that's pretty darn well predictable.

But on the other hand, they will not get away with this.

if we are fortunate enough to get a settlement.

Because theirs is, it can be clearly pointed out, is a bug out position.

We may have to come to us to talk about it.

When you say, we'll get out, give us our prisoners, we'll stop all military action.

That's the rationale you need, is that you couldn't do that a year ago where you can do it.

Maybe six months ago where you can do it.

Today or tomorrow or next month.

And that, there's something to that.

Plus, you've got the position, the two things, where you won't let you do anything.

Maybe you won't let you do anything else.

Yeah.

We'll see about that.

If that's the case, then .

Well, I didn't do the Congressional thing.

I told you the other day it was going to be Congress, governors, liberties.

We've got to change our tune a little bit to, again, get out of this, get away from this subject.

You know, Jesus said, what can we do to get well with the Congress and let it be a little bit more the other way around.

I agree.

You really ought to have a heart-to-heart talk with the boys on that score.

They're like, it's got to be standard.

It shows all your advisors to take your decisions so that we don't get the impression

I'm going to vote him in tonight.

Yeah, I saw the report up there.

So we can leave right after this.

Okay.

We can all the way over.

I have a great question.

Oh, sir.

Yeah, that's right.