Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 834 › Conversation 834-008
Nixon, David & Bull on Gould Incorporated and Energy policy
Friday, January 5, 1973 · 2:22 PM–2:30 PM ET · Oval Office · 10 min
AI Summary
President Nixon met with Dr. Edward E. David, Jr. to discuss David’s upcoming departure from government service to join Gould, Incorporated in the Chicago area. The President expressed his appreciation for David's work and proposed that David remain available for future advisory assignments, particularly concerning national energy policy and organizational strategy. They also discussed their mutual concerns regarding Senator Edward M. Kennedy's influence on science policy and the potential legislative overreach of the Office of Technology Assessment.
- Edward E. David Jr.
- Gould Incorporated
- Energy policy
- Science policy
- Edward M. Kennedy
- Office of Technology Assessment
Audio
Transcript (AI-generated)
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Just one time.
All right.
With regard to the issue, I think that we all .
But I am confident that there hasn't been anyone that has been able to be, in fact, represented specifically.
and still represent the position of the president.
You're the best man we've ever had.
I respect for all.
I'm sorry you don't want to do the ADC.
I think you could do a great job there.
And yet, maybe you should.
Maybe even you don't know what you should do.
I don't know.
You've got to make your own determination.
With our new organization, you know, it seems to me that you, that you've been a, thank God, this is the best opportunity we've had for science.
But I understand you've got a position coming up.
I hope it is.
I hope you make an opinion on it.
Well, you never know when it's enough, of course.
But it's very
I can speak, having been in the private sector for eight years.
You're worth a lot.
Don't understand.
Don't suspect.
If you get a little too old, a little older, you wouldn't be.
A little younger, you wouldn't be.
But you're right at the age that you've got to be right now for the next ten years.
My father told me that.
It's a company called Gould Incorporated, which is a merger of the old Gould National Battery Company and Clevite, which is a Cleveland-based automotive parts and electronics company.
And the thing that intrigued me most about those two firms was that it's a combination of very high technology and sort of medium-level technology.
And most of the, that's the combination I think is going to take us all in the process.
Your position is exactly the same as my position.
That's the same as my position for research and development planning.
And I'll also be president of their laboratory, Google Laboratories.
And it's suburbia-based with people out of Chicago.
Do you like that part of the country?
I've never lived there, but I think people will like it.
Chicago is a vital city.
It really is.
I've always wanted to come to Chicago.
I've never lived there either.
But there's a certain, you know, they have a gutsy,
If he doesn't have the softness that you've got in some of the eastern areas, I don't mean that there aren't very strong people in the east, too.
Chicago has a really down-to-earth, go-ahead type of business leader and education leader and so forth.
I think you'll like it.
I think you'll like the atmosphere there.
They're nice.
They're good people.
Well, I hope so.
I think it's going to be interesting.
Where do you live?
I'm in the area as well.
Where do you live?
We have a great children's place, but I think we'll live in Barrett.
Barrett?
I haven't heard of that area.
I haven't seen it.
Beyond O'Hare.
About 20 minutes beyond O'Hare.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, that's a good area.
I haven't seen that.
It's sort of very much like Virginia.
741 is not like Virginia.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like the... Is it a new kind of development?
Not really.
It's been there for some years.
It was a small town.
I thought it was an independent part of Illinois, but I don't think it's a very...
It's, oh, maybe 20 minutes from Elk Air Air Force, 40, 50 minutes from that.
Is your office in Chicago?
It's very near O'Hare, so... Oh, oh, that's great.
You don't have to go on, do you?
Right, right.
Mr. President, I think we'll, if I can give any help to you, in that position.
Well, we have, I told John and that, you know, there are times that we are going to have assignments that are not cool.
but involved, where we want people that know what government is and can follow up and carry out.
It's also that it will be helpful to you.
I mean, what I mean is that when somebody is standing there and he goes out, it's good for you to keep your context in here.
You know, it's good also for you to do something to take you away from that.
We ought to give you their perspective.
Actually, the way we have that, we have that very much in mind.
Sometimes we've got some, you like to travel, I know.
Yes, I do.
You do a little foreign travel.
I'd be glad to do whatever that you see.
Tell me this, do you, what about the energy that you use?
Do you have an interest in that particularly?
Very much so.
The one thing I would like for you to do, if you would, is to mention that earlier, if you have not already.
We're going to have to set up that energy.
It's one thing we did not handle in the reorganization because it covered too many things.
And it's the one thing we're going to retain someplace in the White House, someplace.
It will require a great deal of outside
operations and so forth.
Seems to me that you would be arguing on that.
Your company is not in that, though.
Well, everybody is in it, but not centrally.
It does have this battery.
What do you mean?
I'm not saying that, but...
But you're interested in the subject.
I'm very interested in the subject.
Well, we, being a little bit modest, we had a very strong hand in preparing the first energy message.
And we've had a strong hand in this one.
The RD program that goes with it was really the product of our office and Dick Balsizer in particular.
But my own personal interest has been there, too.
In fact, this is, I've made several speeches on the subject.
And I think it's pretty well recognized.
Well, you've been...
You know they haven't formalized it yet, but I know, I told John that I thought there should be an outside, you know, a group of experts outside of the government, not disturbing people.
And he'd be ideal.
Absolutely ideal.
Okay.
We can...
That's what we were calling it.
I think there may be another area that perhaps is not quite as obvious now, but maybe there will be some help to be given.
This is Senator Kennedy's activities on the Hill with respect to science, which I look on as being very bad.
and deleterious to science.
I don't know.
I don't even know what they are.
Well, he's trying to establish a Civil Science Systems Administration, sort of like the analogy of NASA, which is in the NSF.
It's a bad concept, and probably the worst place they could put it, even if it such as existed.
And it's a political ploy.
It's getting a lot of support.
I'm very, very anxious to do whatever I can to help do that.
And then there's the Office of Technology Assessment, which is a congressional analog or congressional correspondence to the GAO on the technology side that was set up last year by my statute.
And I look on that as being a political opinion.
Senator Kennedy is at the head of that.
So you're going to, I think, be bleak as the MIT crowd is.
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the heart of your understanding of what he did to himself.
He doesn't know.
It's the Massachusetts group, by the way.
It's what?
It's the Massachusetts group.
And I just think that's very bad.
It's a sign very bad for the country.
And I'd be more than happy to do a review.
Do you express your views on that to whom it's very important to wear a review?
I don't know if everyone's aware of my particular views.
I've never discussed it with anyone.
But I have expressed it to various people in our shop.
Okay.
I have a couple of questions for you.
That's for your wife.
I know she did a survey on all the things we can.
And those are the only other people who have a large account.
So, uh, so, uh, Sam, you know, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,
Thank you very much, sir.
That's all you have.
All you have to remember is love.
I really like that.
I love that name again.
She's a little bit bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
She's a little bigger.
NARA Description
On January 5, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Dr. Edward E. David, Jr., and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:22 pm to 2:30 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 834-008 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 834-8
Date: January 5, 1973
Time: 2:22 pm - 2:30 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Edward E. David, Jr.; Stephen B. Bull was present at the beginning of
the meeting.
Photographs
David's achievements
Atomic Energy Commission [AEC]
-Opportunity for scientist
New job
-David's value
-Gould, Incorporated
-Position with firm
-Location
Chicago
-George P. Shultz
-Personality of city
Future residence
-Barrington, Illinois
-Location
-17-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 834-8 (cont’d)
Office location
David's offer of assistance
-John D. Ehrlichman
-Possible assignments
-Travel
Energy
-Ehrlichman
-Reorganization
-David's company
-Interest in subject
-Energy message
Consultation
-David's role
Edward M. Kennedy's activities
-Impact on science
-Civil Science Systems Administration
-National Science Foundation [NSF]
-David's position
Office of Technology Assessment
-David's position
-Kennedy
-Ehrlichman
-Peter M. Flanigan
Presidential gifts
David left at 2:30 pm.Also recorded on January 5, 1973
- 394-009 1:08 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building on an unknown date, sometime between 1:08 pm on January 5, 1973 and 2:56 pm on January 8, 1973.
- 834-004 1:57 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 1:57 pm and 2:03 pm.
- 834-005 2:03 PM · 55 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:03 pm to 2:04 pm.
- 834-006 2:04 PM · 23 sec — President Richard M. Nixon, S. Zalman Shazar, Yitzhak Rabin, Col. Richard T. Kennedy, and Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:04 pm to 2:19 pm.
- 834-007 2:20 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:20 pm to 2:21 pm.
- 834-009 2:30 PM · 41 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 2:30 pm to 2:31 pm.
- 834-010 2:31 PM · 27 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Dong Jo Kim, Kim Chong-pil, Kim Yong-sik, Carl Han, Henry Sullivan, Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 2:31 pm and 3:03 pm.
- 834-011 3:03 PM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John M. ("Jack") Lynch, Frank E. Fitzsimmons, Col. Richard T. Kennedy, and Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:03 pm to 3:36 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 834-008, January 5, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/834-008 (accessed October 12, 2026).