On January 5, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Carlos P. Romulo, Col. Richard T. Kennedy, Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 3:39 pm to 4:10 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 834-013 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Mr. President, if you consider this moment well, how are you?
We'll see you again in a few weeks later.
Come on, let's sit down.
And the driver panicked, and instead of putting the brake, he stepped on the accelerator.
So he hit the floor and thrown out of the car.
You're a strong man.
Well, in terms of people, he's different.
Well, thank you.
You follow our politics so closely.
I was thinking back through the years, and I saw you were here.
I want you to know what you're doing.
Because of the time, I don't think...
The only people that I have, they have the 400 visitors every year.
They put on a schedule.
I said, you're going to have to put on the heads of government or vice president.
They said, what about the board of ministers?
And I look at them and I'm like, what?
It's rotting.
I said, how do we justify this?
He's an old friend.
Yes.
I know the State Department.
I read over there, it says, long-standing friends.
It's an old friend.
That's right.
That's right.
If you're still standing, I remember the Union Grove.
That's right.
Yes, sir.
My father would do it out there.
He did it in the University.
That's 20 years ago, when I was on the office.
After your victory?
Well, we hope that things are calmed down there.
Very well, mister.
I hope it's not important to you that now there is peace and order.
Would you prefer a Tinker coffee or a Tinker?
Nothing.
They've got to have a box of these.
There is a speech in order.
The water lords, in which one of these is in an army.
That's all wrong.
They've got their own arms.
Can they equip five different things?
Did the President have to take these strong measures?
He had to.
He had to.
I know some people here were, you know, coming into my office saying, oh, we must lecture President Parkinson.
I said, no, I'm not lecturing.
I said, I hope that he realizes that this poses some problems.
He knows his own internal situation.
I know that he's dedicated, as you are, to freedom and all the rest, but you can't have anarchy.
You can't have it.
Even if you had your people, you know, you once told me that the Philippines took all the...
I confess it's an American democracy, and they know how to play it.
Well, but my point is that I understand it, and I'm glad to see that it's calmed down.
And it's an importance.
I'm one of those affected.
They are absentee landlords.
They are the ones who clean all the streets, clean the graffiti on the walls.
If you don't want to clean the streets, it's in Asia.
The flies have disappeared because the garbage is gone.
This democracy, really, American democracy, is for a mature, highly developed, affluent society.
For a developing society, you need some restraints.
Mr. President, if you had Marcelo here, your Congress wouldn't be giving you the trouble they're giving you now.
See, because they've been giving me trouble for 40 years.
Yes, by ideal victory.
I was with the Board of Editors of the Times, and I said to them, they were speaking of the power of the press.
And I said, Mario, my friend speaks of the power of the press.
That makes me quite doubtful about the power of the press, because he went after President Nixon.
And you went all out with Montgomery.
I think the American people think he did.
That's right.
Tony, years ago, we talked about PRC, and I remember you,
The Asian statesmen, remember, when I was traveling abroad in the 1960s, were saying that it was time for the United States to take a look at our relationship.
You think we did the right thing?
That was a masterly job, Mr. President.
I made that decision.
There's frankly too much out there.
You relaxed attention.
How did I?
That meant a lot to us in Asia.
You don't think that our movement toward that, because some of our writers here are set up there, that our movement toward the PRC, which of course is only a crack, but nevertheless an important movement, that that frightens people?
all of the so-called non-confidence kind of stuff.
It did frighten you?
It did frighten us, and in fact it distracted us, because your communication and I showed, for example, that the Chinese, indirectly, would rather have American presence in the foremost traits than Russian.
And that is, for us, our security.
Also, all of Japan, Mr. President, there is...
They are so concentrated in one place that in this atomic age, they know they can be decimated in the twinkling of an eye.
And that's their restraint now.
That's their restraint.
That's right, they aren't a continental power.
No, they aren't a continental power.
They are concentrated in that small island there.
And they know it.
By the size of teleporting?
Yes.
And they know it.
Yes.
Yes.
I think that will accentuate, of course, the imagine of these things, I think, the best in the world, which is dangerous because they'll be transformed into mass hysteria by a demigod.
Yes, sure.
Yes.
So that's the danger of Japan, but there is another restraint to stay from there.
Let me say a word to you about Vietnam.
We're worried about that, Mr. President.
What's that?
We're worried.
Everybody's worried about it.
We're doing the best we can.
Dr. Dissinger will go to Paris on Monday for another round of negotiations.
Our conditions are very easy.
All it is is just something to cease fire and return prisoners and some political process which would allow the future to return.
It means all parties will be convinced.
Just before our election in October, as you will know, the party that needs the embargo in on the talks has said that we have reached an essential agreement on those three points, which I have insisted upon, and I made the main decision of my own.
That was true.
That's just your reply at that time.
After the election, they backed away.
They posed new conditions, say, for the delegate for 10 days.
The filibuster was clear that instead of wanting to make an agreement, they wanted to.
to put it off.
For what reason, I do not know.
And so consequently, I had suspended the bombing of about the 20th, on October 8th, when the originator came in.
And so I just removed the suspension.
Then two days before the first of the year, they sent us a message that we were ready to talk again.
So that's the basis of it now.
What will happen, I cannot say.
As I told the congressional leaders this morning, I'm not going to say that it's all just a good message.
As far as we're concerned, we'll be very serious.
We'll be very reasonable.
It's up to them.
They have said they will be serious.
If they're serious, we'll make a deal.
That's where it stands.
So I'd say you would know within a reasonable time.
My view is at this point that the negotiation now is reaching a point where the other side has got to determine whether they want to make this negotiation a reasonable place or not.
It's not under that point.
So as far as our role is concerned, as you know, it's now down to, we have nothing but a residual force of volunteers.
There's no ground combat.
The south Vietnamese can now defend themselves on the ground, on the sea, and in the southern part of the country, in the area, and they're capable of it.
The problem remains as to whether we can now have an honorable piece or whether we must take some on the road.
That's where it stands.
So that's just a brief report, please.
when Dr. Pizzi announced that peace was at hand.
But he explained that very well with the briefing that he gave, the newspaper here.
And Ambassador Byron gave a few texts of the briefing, which I showed to President Marcos.
And we saw that the American side tried its best.
And they, well, it was a semantic...
It was a sort of... That's the best way to describe it.
On the other hand, as you know, we might end the war.
Yes.
We must.
I think your interests require...
as we have all, as well as we have led, beyond the interests of the United States, beyond the interests of the United States, beyond the interests of the United States, beyond the interests of the United States,
is not a bug out by the United States.
It must be an honorable, we say honorable, honorable in a number of things.
But to us, we think a ceasefire in place, that's honorable.
That stops the fighting.
And then a political settlement which allows everybody to have a free shot at the Fed's fair.
Obviously, President Tu would like more.
He'd like to worry.
He's very confident.
He's killed.
He can't do that.
He can't.
Actually, what we want to do is to help others.
You don't have to hurt him.
That's why your business is to remain there.
Exactly.
And so therefore, it seems to me that in America, all the Europeans are gone.
The Australians are strong.
No other nation can be strong enough.
to play a role outside of their borders, except Japan, potentially, or America.
I think they'd rather have the U.S. than Japan, or rather have the U.S. than Japan.
Yeah, that's the point.
American presence is very important to us, to make it powerful to all the people who must be in presence, where we know others, where we don't send our men to fight.
And American presence consists of your servants, women, and your area of work.
And your goal is not American presence.
Now, I stood with G.I.S.
and our, I mean, I think I'm trained on that.
I think you were right when you said the goal.
I've defended your side all along, yes.
Enras and Tyra just wrote me a letter because he said that he defended your side.
It was you.
I have defended your side, yes.
So we are happy that you are at the head of the people's state here.
As I said when you warned me, I said to the press, I believe, honestly, that of all the presidents who have lived in the White House, you are the most knowledgeable about Asia.
And I made no exception.
You have the most knowledgeable about Asia.
That's very good.
You have the best exams.
Yes.
Yes.
You have discovered Indian-Asian problems for everyone there.
You're always willing to listen.
That's why I think that they are fortunate.
That the New York Times was fixated by the American people, and that you won't let us hurt you.
Yes.
And Barbra scoffed at me to tell you that he has faith in you, and he has confidence in you, and you have his highest respect.
Well, but you've been debating my respect, I told you not to hurt me.
We, uh, we will keep the closest communication.
But, uh, I understand his internal problems.
He will see he will get no lectures from me.
He will get no lectures.
I mean, he started this the way he described it.
You know, we understand.
Yes.
Yes, he is a devil.
He is a devil.
Now, we may, just for your private information, we're going to move you around.
And I don't know where we will go.
I don't know how many of you have been there.
I mean, he's scheduled.
We probably know.
But I want a very strong man for you.
Yeah.
I don't know if we're going to make a change now.
If we do change, I'm sure we will not do so, except for a person who will have your total confidence.
I want somebody that I feel is, you want a strong man, right?
He doesn't talk.
Whenever he talks, he says something.
but we regret that you are taking boost in the United Nations.
He won't know what it was like when I was still there.
He's a very, a 10% of the life.
John Skell is an ABC commentator.
He's been here in the White House for two years.
A great, a right-wing journalist, working with the EAP.
He's traveled with me to China and Russia.
He knows the world.
He will do a great job there.
But he's not just here.
He's the head of the party.
So he's going to be the chairman of the other party.
What do you do?
And also, he can go out there.
He can't be political.
He's a very good man, sir.
We work very closely with him there.
The production people see in the United Nations.
Very closely with him.
Well, if you get a good man, you can't have him wear two hats, but we'll send you this other phone when you're good.
I don't know him, Mr. President.
He'll know your problems.
And you'll like him.
You'll like him.
By the way, I'm signing with McNamara to pay a $70 million loan agreement, educational loan agreement.
You must like that, Mr. President.
Yes, because we need it for our...
Elementary and our vocation.
Because we have emphasized the academic side.
We have too many lawyers now.
That's the trouble.
It's true all over.
We have so many lawyers and doctors and so forth who don't do the work.
In this country, it's interesting to know that we have probably also too many lawyers and doctors.
On the other hand, we put enormous emphasis, as you know, on vocational.
Yes.
And often, you take our junior college system, we call it the junior college system, which was developed very, very well, especially in my, well, it's a great thing, two years of college, and they come out of there, and they develop, and they showcase the ability to go on for a four-year course.
Right.
But if they also show great...
ability in what we call the technical or vocational area.
They move into that.
And that's the best thing for them to do.
Everybody can't be alone here, I hope.
Or not.
Or politicians.
Or politicians.
But we have too many politicians.
That's right.
Everybody wants our jobs.
Too many politicians.
You do have a lot.
They love it.
They love it.
They all know it.
They're very good at it.
But with this new dispensation number, it seems that it's controlling that.
Bring one of my extras.
so that he can take his children, his grandchildren.
It's a little tiny other thing, but that was the president's point.
He must put it... You still have the same home, right?
You have the same home.
Yes, when I remember all of you...
Yes, you have the same home.
Yes.
It's been a lot of remodeling.
Right.
Improved.
Right.
Well, one day... One day I hope to come again.
How many weeks, Nixon?
She's fine.
What was the deal when you went there?
Yes, I was in the wild, you know.
I saw you several times.
Exactly right.
Yes, I saw Mr. Raposo.
He was also right.
He was.
He sure was.
Yes.
Well, she's fine.
She was in California.
At the Rosebury, she had run back to the general office.
Oh, she was killed.
Yes, yes.
We think she was killed, but it must have been some miracle.
Well, we always good to see you.
Well, we, we cherish, we cherish our long standing.
We've got your fire out here.
Thank you.