Conversation 836-005

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I talked to you.

Thank you.

I talked to the, they brought over that machine in the career.

Did he show it to you on the chance?

No.

It's a career that's on that side.

It's a hell of a machine.

It's one, as a matter of fact, they have pedals and all that sort of thing that you push.

You have the machine that sort of, you turn the thing on and you turn it off and you can hear it clear across the room.

Okay.

So the IAMF costs $400.

This costs $99.

And it takes an hour on each side.

That's great.

Because then you don't, you know, you can sit down and just... Well, particularly for these memorandums that I don't want transcribed, I can just sort of, you know, just sit down and let them, I don't want to pull them out and that sort of thing, and just let them go, you see.

Okay.

That would be a great job.

That's what I'm saying.

The, I'll write.

So if you take it back for the first couple of times, then you'll be sure you've got it.

I know it's dreadful that you spent the time and didn't on me, but I think if you check it,

I can't play the first couple of times.

Right after you've done just a few words, even.

Thank you.

I had a big one before.

Let me see.

That was one where you put the... You put a little...

It wasn't this kind of tape.

No.

It was like a little hard record type almost, wasn't it?

I think it was the record.

No, it wasn't the record.

It was a different tape.

It started like an old kind of thing.

You just shut that down.

But I remember.

Anyway, it was good.

Oh, they really are.

I think she'll talk to anyone and make notes.

Trisha may remember notes on her trips that have got her started with the idea of making notes.

Her recollections of her years in the White House and how they can go back over the years and make some big recalls throughout their lives because each at some time should write a book and each, when they write a book, will make some inferences.

It'll be a very fine historical record, but it would be a hell of a good thing if I'm going to ask you that question.

That's right.

And sometimes when they're talking, they'll remind each other of things or things that happened that they should then go make notes on and keep critical of.

Things back even like when their grandmother stayed with them and things.

If they talk together and remind each other a little bit of them.

If then they could get a dime on it, it would be a fantastic book.

But it's about two books, really.

Each is super-challenged, but it's a wonderful book.

I would read it.

It's fantastic.

Walter Annenberg called me last night at home and asked if I would please...

Then he's very warm, and he then leaves very warm.

That's delicious for your birthday today.

Speaking to that, will you be sure to check with the girl when you see her when her letters are gone?

Yes, I have them.

I'm not sure if you would agree.

Ask her, for them to, I want you to say to her that,

They'll start one for you, but we need to sit down with Trisha and find out which one you need to do.

Well, if you do that, I don't do any.

I don't need to do any.

You don't do any personally, no, but they do them for your signature, some of them.

Yeah, but I want to be sure that Annabelle gets a letter.

I want to be sure all the people have gone to the extra.

Okay.

Julie will, and Trisha will know which ones.

For example, I didn't call her yesterday because I thought to give her a few days for that.

She was very nice to them when they were there in Athens, Julie and all the rest.

Even though I don't cover everything and do it too well, just so it's warm, just so they get over it.

Oh, you don't have to cover the position.

Yeah, they can do this, and I'm going to talk.

You can say that.

I know that one of the burdens of a professor, most like yours, is to have many VIPs.

And I hope that you should listen to that.

She stayed in the spousal with David Eaton, I don't know.

I mean, I recall, I don't know, I recall the great appreciation of the occasion in the state of New York.

that I've ever seen before.

What about our key voters?

Is this the ?

I'm pretty sure they're here.

Thank her.

This was never such an enjoyable, dirty background.

She was an honestly impressed woman, actually.

All the people that she must have known.

I know that you are both advanced and both

There'll be great things happening there.

I was with your advance, what did I say, advance what?

Your advance alert.

Alert was a, it wasn't an expense, but it was a call.

And, uh, so I got the ratings.

So that's, uh, so that's when I, I was grateful to you, uh, for the ambassador.

Did you get 60 roses this morning?

They weren't outside your room or out in the hallway, babe?

You know, I may have just popped off.

They're always supposed to be.

You know, remember?

They always have done that.

Yeah.

You know, as a matter of fact, the other thing over here.

Well, don't tell me to do that.

Yeah, I'll be over here.

In the office, sure.

Because I have quite a few appointments that I can have in the office.

There's a...

And I have a few things in there.

There's something, I don't know whether it's from Bonnie to ask her.

There's something from the French ambassador sent over to me tonight.

That's what I wanted to ask you.

That's at 6 o'clock.

Yes.

That's what Julie said.

6 o'clock.

Bring them over there.

They like to see me.

Yeah, I thought they would.

And poor little Mr. Schluter drove down with them.

Oh, right.

The lovely thing.

You know, I just talked to Adam Malik.

He brought his son in to me.

He's a young man that's made a lot of money on his own.

Right.

Young man.

And I've got a resume for him.

Someone's telling me to watch him.

Sure.

He brought out, like, Perkins and McGuire, some of those people, made him.

You know, he's really, I mean, he's very young.

He's a good looking young boy.

He's only about 34 or 35.

The kind of person that looks like, you know, you would die.

On the birthday?

I heard it this morning.

It was good.

Oh, I never seen it.

Well, maybe it was posted.

I don't know.

But I was listening to the news blog.

It was good.

It sounded good.

Okay, come in, Your Honor.

Come on, Rose.

Hi, Robert, how are you?

Rose, would you be sure to check with the, I don't know, I'm not sure if the machine is one that you can operate, it's not a problem.

Yes, I did it.

But I am not aware that there's nothing to it.

But if you turn it on and put it on how it takes, do you want it to be?

You don't have to do a thing with it.

As a matter of fact, just take the machine and I've got it.

I have still used this machine.

Or a shirt or something, because I, I mean, there's no reason not to, because I normally don't put anything on it.

It doesn't take long.

Well, I'll go, I think I'll even go and look at one and sell these myself.

Well, he's going to get one.

I know he is.

He bought one already.

I know.

But I'll go look at the store and see if we should store with your tape something.

Because even if they change it, we have the original type tape, so it'll be easier to learn something from scratch.

Good story.

They led with the...

The fact that the border is more likely to, you know, to damage the business, the pressure comes from the stream, the pressure of the job, and quote, the fact that you never get more in the presidency, and then they go on to pick up and weave that into how people should keep their spirit, you know, alive, keep their mind mentally alert, keep their interest in life.

The worst thing a man or woman can do is give up.

Then he's old before his time.

And then they go into the part about, you know, when you were 20, when you were 30.

Keep back on you.

Great.

Thank you.

Yes.

All right.

Right here.

Good.

Just put it right there.

Right.

And the quotes that are listed.

No, it didn't at all.

No, it was perfect.

They expanded on the story.

They talked about the age of the congressmen, age of the senators, and the court, and moved that out on the day of war.

Yes, they did.

Right.

They moved it pretty much to get it started.

It might be a pretty good plan.

It should.

more than one way to scan the cap with regard to accessibility for us.

That's accessibility.

Sure.

Don't you agree?

Yes, absolutely.

It's all accessible.

It's not maybe in all of them.

They'll grow.

But when the public sees people see or hear something like that, they say, well, that's not accessible.

Absolutely.

And I think we should do various things like that.

We'll do things in groups and the adversary proceeding on that.

But I think that the use of one individual, it's like the television, the hell with anything there.

You have to do all the reparations.

You do it if you go...

to go to the whole works.

I mean, I would never go on one network.

So you go on one, you do so much work for just a small audience.

But on the other hand, in terms of this, it requires no substantial preparation.

You could do this with a great number of people.

And I frankly think that we have not probably used as much as the mic.

I agree.

I think we've been a little sensitive about it because basically people will veg.

I'm sure they're going to veg.

Well, I think we'd just be right here with you.

Why does it fit you anyway, no matter what you do?

Well, it's not the truth.

So why not do it?

All right.

I can't bet you about the two wires.

Absolutely not.

One day, somebody will come in, you know, like, remember that guy, that baseball thing?

It's a small thing.

Do you remember somebody asked her to give it to him?

Sure.

And I think you've got to give somebody exclusive.

They give it a hell of a ride.

Right.

And then eventually, that less factor, that's the whole point.

My idea is that I think the question should be always in terms of what we can do with less.

with the least effort.

Now, there are times we'll want to put in a great deal of effort because we'll give a great deal of advantage to others, and then you go televised and do all the work that goes with that.

Right?

I think there may be other times when you just want to do something that's low-key.

I mean, you want to say something on your birthday, so to say, and give an interview like that.

It's fine.

And, as I say, this is one of the reasons why our services get a hell of a life.

They just, every week, we don't know what they do in Washington.

I mean, what they do in Washington here is really irrelevant.

It's what they do out there in the country.

That's right.

That's the place.

Think of all the papers and all the TV stations, all the local television stations.

Well, they have it, right?

Everyone, you know, AP and EDI covers every radio station, every television station.

Not, you know, individually, but collectively.

The whole gamut of it.

Well, you're meeting them.

They have their time stopped.

That's right.

I'm doing that today.

I would be quite, without being belligerent, quite vigorously on the offense, if they're going to get that defense everybody.

In other words, rather than saying that the idea of how could we do to get well at the time, I would simply say that we really don't get much of an A.

And as far as that is a question of what they can do to get well with us.

And if you go back, they want to get chapter reversed.

I mean, they're in various oral policy problems, depending on the papers.

Right.

And so, maybe the facts are concerned.

The Times is also a part of it.

It has many of its great traditions.

I mean, they've broken the confidentiality rules on several cases.

You know, they have speeches around here.

No, I'm not going to... And that...

I also take it very simple.

I said he's in the highest regard for his own time.

And I'm going to put the knife in the apple.

As minutes just say, I don't know.

I'd say, well, I can't believe it.

I can't say he breaks too much.

He does sometimes, but he's a good, he's a very clever reporter.

He breaks too much.

When he does, he is, what would be said at the press club, and his colleagues, and he hates press.

He says, I mean, everybody in that room knows it.

I mean, the press room knows it.

And I said, you cannot expect that for us.

the level of the man who comes in with the frequency of the idea of that.

That doesn't mean that we don't want a man who loves the president.

But we want a man who at least will be a professional newsman, who, whatever he feels, will write the script.

That's an eye-catcher.

That's what doesn't define her.

I'm going to hit this.

I will not even recommend and have not that the Director of Communications

the office be changed anyway.

And so it has performed the task.

Herb Klein has been asked to stay on by the president and will be staying on by the president.

I think we will.

Well, actually, Herb is leaving, you know.

Yes, I know.

But it's a request at a later time.

But we don't want to hurry.

But I think that's definitely right.

So I think in order to do that.

Yeah.

What do you say?

I just thought that was about it.

I thought that was what you just said.

I thought that was it.

And I talked to him.

Kilpatrick called me last night.

I said, Harry, you are absolutely wrong on this.

I said, don't go with that story.

I said, you're dealing with people here.

I said, you are wrong on this.

He said, I have it on absolutely.

I said, I don't know what authority you've got.

I said, you're talking about me.

And I said, is there greater authority about what I'm going to do than this?

And I think he moved him into doing it.

But I'm going to turn it off on that basis.

I think we should.

Oh, we should.

We have to do something for her, though.

That's just a day of dirty thinking, right?

But this thing is that, you know, actually, really, really, we are cutting back on all the offices and so forth and coordinating some of this stuff, but the director of communications is not remaining.

Absolutely.

You know, of course, I've been moving, as Bob no doubt has told you, and adjusting some of my staff people, but we've been doing it just absolutely on a quiet basis, on a private basis, and then no reference to her, so.

Oh, she couldn't do it.

Well, it's just better.

I say it's small.

It's big stuff.

Small, it's not going to hit you.

as far as public reaction, but it's a vicious story with regard to her, and I'm just not gonna allow that to happen.

It's a goddamn vicious story with regard to a man.

It hurts a man individually.

It hurts a man as a professional.

I was gonna say that one thing we probably should have done, and I thought of it in that room, we probably should have had the water services for a picture yesterday.

That's what they've given you for the dictionary?

We gave them one.

But you gave them all this?

Yeah, and they moved it.

Oh, they did?

Well, McCurry has that theory all the time.

It's better without a story, without a picture.

No, we put out two.

They were great pictures of you very relaxed and talking, and they moved it right with the story.

The post is...

You know, they're not going to get a big part of it.

That's right.

I just want to make sure.

It'll be carried to the country.

I agree.

You check around.

You're going to find that it should be carried every place.

Don't get one damn of a process that's going to drive it.

But I think Lewitt and Thomas have been ecstatic about it.

They were.

They were delighted.

They liked it.

And they'll talk around with the others.

And they were very much impressed about it.

You know, the way you looked, and they were talking about that, and the way you were relaxed, and the time you spent with them, and so forth.

And they just... You know, it's no problem at all.

We gave them a handbook.

It's just exactly the same.

And we covered a lot of ground, and made a lot of points that are good for the future, too.

Right.

Talking about what you see for young congressmen, young senators, and young judges, and all that sort of thing.

No, it's...

As well, what I have to say, we will find other opportunities to give individual interviews, but we must always do it on a basis where our grounds are well laid out.

And as a matter of fact, in my own view, it should always be on the basis where

where they can quote directly.

I don't think that you can run into a situation where they've quoted directly.

But the only thing that you can do is to say you can run it in a week, or like you do with Salt Petri.

So it's the hot news thing.

But the quoted directly, I think, makes it a much more honest story than when they quoted directly.

Absolutely.

I agree.

And in a session like that, you're always free.

You made the comment that you feel one would be better phrased another way after, and he said, you seldom do that.

You didn't do it yesterday.

But if ever that would occur, you know, you say, now wait a minute, I'd rather put that this way.

You can just kick it out.

That's right.

So you have absolute coding flexibility?

You know, I was looking apart from the error story, which is playing back as it should.

And, you know, all this crap about whether or not the protocol is ICU bullshit.

If you had ICU protocol, OR protocol, it may mean something, it may not.

Quite frankly, I think it's better for it to be clear.

If the thing is cheated, if some of it is not.

The main one is that, frankly, in the area,

But, and he's a sucker for, you know, waving at people and smiling at people, you know, I mean, he doesn't have any damn, uh, ambitions in a way.

He just won't have, obviously, if he hadn't been there smiling, he could use an entirely wrong approach.

But I was thinking, and I saw, I heard some story,

You know, I think back to their talk about the Soviet sun.

It's all one of those assholes who are writing that.

Will they never learn?

I'm going to make that point.

Okay.

Now, if you say not, if you just say that's not, and just say, ask him, ask him if he would tell him that we have, that you made a file about how the Times coverage all went.

And if he read the Times, he would have been shocked, shocked to have a subject preached in the White House.

I said, that is not good reporting.

And that raises credibility.

It happens to me there's a lot of artists, they run around the summit because they've got poor sources.

Some asshole who doesn't know what's going on.

You could just say the only place they know what's going on is right over here.

That's why the president keeps writing this.

It has to keep here because it cuts across various agencies.

But this is an asshole.

Salt 1, Salt 2.

Jesus Christ.

I, I, let me say, it's only in the end, in the end, it's going to make a bigger story, but I just don't want, I just think the Times should know that their credibility in this town has been seriously shaken by reason of their wishful writing, some of their remarks.

They, they just, they, they, and, and you say this with great regret because you can say as far as, I guess,

that they know there's no man that reads the 9-11 story religiously in the present.

He reads it all because he knows the world.

Well, if you look over the past year, going over your notes from yesterday on this, if you look over the past, actually, two, three years, the major events of the first administration, in both, not only editorially, but the news flow of the times, based upon leaks from the United Government, the State Department, the Defense Department,

moved the impression totally counter to what the end result was.

If you take the DRC at the time of the, at the time of the mining, the stories, the sources, the stories based on sources would have led a reader of the New York Times to conclude that there would be no summit, that there wouldn't be no Soviet summit.

That's right.

The same thing applies to the discussion when you go back to the ABM and so forth, when totally tired of what they predicted.

Yeah, the ABM was 90% solved.

That's exactly right.

There were stories coming from all over.

If you take the PRC trip and the effect and the impact of that, as it related to Taiwan, as it related to China, all of these events, the social race of the time,

And I think that's the way that I'll leave your thoughts in, you know, a firm but an offensive way, because it's true.

Fact.

On this business of the wage price, I mean, for Schultz today, very easy guess for someone to submit.

Did I go off and answer that?

And Schultz gave questions on it.

I don't know whether that's...

My own feeling is that subject A is by about a factor of a thousand to one is what's going on in Paris throughout Europe, even on a subject of this importance.

to walk out to the president for the first time and babble around a little about what he tries to control, sending him short and short on questions.

Just right now, he's going to be a sorry president who walked out without answering.

I'll do it.

Because earlier this morning, this is the way the domestic guys are.

He said, well, he says, be well a little bit.

The country knew he was thinking about something other than Vietnam at this time.

Well, I think they do.

The other point that I make is that I said to John, I said, now, John, let me tell you, you recall our news conferences that we had.

You remember the briefing books you prepared.

There are no many questions that we ever get on domestic matters.

John Curtis said, yeah, he said, after all of his reparations, where that means the press, he didn't get one question on that realization.

Not one.

People don't understand it.

They don't understand it.

He's speaking domestic issues wrong.

Unless it's an in-house thing that has to do with, well, why doesn't he have more press cards?

He should have things that people don't care about.

These press cards.

What do you want?

My thinking is this.

In the period we're in now, before the inaugural and while we're in the foreign situation we are now, I think it would be a mistake for you to go out.

First of all, in terms of the public posture now, you don't have to go out and stand before a film camera to make people have the impression that you're doing something.

After the inaugural, as we move into February, March, at any point you want to, at any point we decide, you can increase the momentum of appearances at any time you want, and totally erase, you know, any, with one session.

Now, I happen to feel that my instinct is that, or just my feeling is that if you walked out to do at this time

In the transition period, moving to the inaugural and also moving to the anomaly, to present George Schultz on a wage price control thing, people expect it anyway.

It's a... Also, it looks as if you're going for that purpose.

My view is, and I was going to tell this to George as we talked about it this morning, issue a statement, yes.

George Shultz brief in detail.

Well, as a matter of fact, I do.

I have a stomach, but I will do an audio.

No, no, no, not on radio, not in television.

Now, do the radio tape.

I think the radio tape of a minute and a half is always all right.

Don't you think so?

Sure, because it's not, it's the only time it's in your voice.

Well, I've done the radio tapes for Herschel.

I did one for Clementine.

Things like that.

I think a radio tape run is very easy, and that does get you something.

That radio is not to be underestimated, but not television.

How's that sound to you?

My feeling is that you should do neither on this.

I think, by the way, radio tape, I think you're right.

The other thing I was going to say, when we come back to the press, I think we've got a very good flag.

The first time I ran into the audience there, and I'll say, now that we're getting there, I want to tell you what my plans are regarding the press.

I said, remember, we'll be meeting here, and so forth and so on.

So I'll knock that out of the box and not be able to get messy.

I'll say, we'll plan to, because of the television, I said, we ran this in the office.

I said, because many of you like it.

On the other hand, the television projected it.

And I said, I don't know how much money it is.

And so, on the advice,

I don't think we're going to have more sessions in the restaurant, but you can cover it with all that if you like.

That of course in addition to the major Eastern things on occasion with some interesting reception, whatever reception there's going to be here.

I've just been using it.

And you see you're not, then they can get in.

they're in an unusual mood I was talking to some of the people about it they're not in a belligerent mood toward you but they're in an uncertain mood and I think it relates to you know this whole point of view in this town about Vietnam which is right in this town which these guys wallow in all the time and

certain uncertainties about the domestic approach.

They're very fearful, frightened people, is the way I assess them.

Well, you see, they believe the things, they believe, they believe, they believe themselves.

That they were repressive.

That's right.

Well, you see, it's

You see, they can't pinpoint it.

If you look at the briefings, you can't pinpoint it.

They're just talking about the general rule.

There's been no policy that's been explained in more detail.

I mean, they ask for explanations.

I mean, you go back and look at your briefing.

Why do we go in?

You point yourself at the reference.

And then I pointed out in my briefing to the Congressman, I said it exactly the same, which is we suspended it while the talks were over in the service.

When they became unserious, we resumed it.

No, but we identified, yes, we had to.

We had to, you could get it in, it would be at the two-step time here.

Anyway, it doesn't make any sense.

Well, I don't.

I'm not gonna say that, but Ron, they've been through this kind of blue before.

It's about every, basically every six months.

And basically the way we've always dealt with the pattern is to just catch them and cut their frustrations out from under them.

I think the time to do it, well, I don't think we do it immediately.

I think the time to do it is after the 20s.

What do you mean by that?

Well, just like the whole, you know,

I miscalculated that.

As I said, my friends and

Well, let me say that we aren't going to be, we just don't want to cut off our noses by our face.

And I always believe in a smile out of an arrest.

We don't get the same thing we've done over the last four years, but we're doing it our own way now.

I'm going to call her in a minute because she'll be concerned about this.

I'm going to tell her I talked to you about this.

Oh, why don't you call him and say the president called you and asked you about it.

Okay.

You could say that you were going to.

As a matter of fact, if you had the admiration, if I had the admiration, you would.

I said this goddamn story is just beyond me.

I told you to shoot it down.

You said the president was really curious of the story.

This is totally untrue.

First, it does two things.

One, the president says it compromises that it's unfair to him.

And second, it's going to be unfair to the successor.

You know, it's going to make it very difficult for us to get there.