On January 10, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, Rose Mary Woods, Manolo Sanchez, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:05 am and 2:24 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 837-003 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Yes, sir.
I'll check.
Either John or Rick come on board.
Disgusting.
These are not urgent.
They're so urgent that people are... Well, they're the kind of thing I could take around 11 o'clock the day that's wrong.
I mean, in other words, run them in.
But if run them in at all intervals, in other words, what happens there, they're told, they'll be told by a crowd there.
The, uh, that was, uh, all of the gifts were really, I mean, abundant when I did it.
Really was.
And you know that poor Bob worried and worried and worried about whether, uh, whether he did the right thing with that thing for the man who had almost everything.
And I thought that was the one that repressed him.
You mean the handshake?
No, the other one.
The one that had, with all the cities except Massachusetts and the District of- Oh!
They're going to bring those over to me in a few minutes so I can catapult them.
I don't even remember who gave them.
I remember that was the funniest one of all.
Yeah, that was Ed's little practice.
Bob did that.
Bob and Jersey and E.D.
and Hope and Tall Keys came over for a drink after dinner.
After they got home, I mean, I told them they had a third tour.
They'd still be so excited.
So they came over until about 1.30, sitting there just going over how much fun it was, you know.
You know, the thing that they must have particularly, as a matter of fact, you should have just gone to the third floor and had a drink.
And you know another thing, when they put in that third floor...
They should put a small little block.
They have one there.
But they'll redecorate it so it'll be properly done.
And then of course I'll have Noah go out and with the guests.
Or they can be told that there it is.
Sure.
But all these are something else.
They all let it hang by 8 o'clock or 8.30 this morning.
I think all of them had to leave.
They should go.
But you know, when I was singing...
But that film that Paul Keith worked out was the funniest, and that is really hilarious.
those men to do that show, to take the time to do it.
And the other man, he told me, if you do decide to write letters, or he gave me a number, he called from the airport this morning, a number where if you decided where Rowan and Martin would be together today, Casey can catch up.
But another man at the National Football League, who dug up the film so that Paul could edit it, to get all those
And that was really, it was hilarious.
And, and... You've got that here so we can see it again.
Oh yeah, it's yours.
I think you have to show that to the...
I think we have to show it to the staff.
Yeah.
I think that might be a very nice thing if they can get it, can they, uh, oh I'll tell you what, you show it to the staff there at the, uh, in the theater.
Uh huh.
And, uh, you could have an arrangement made that, uh,
I think there's an inauguration on this, when most of you think that I was away.
And again, I'll just invite them over and say at 5 o'clock, I'm just going to go and give them all the time they have.
Or they can bring it so they don't have to go there.
They can probably show them the, it's probably closer for them to show them the EOB.
I don't care if you see the place.
You see the EOB conference room, that new, not conference, but the new, you know, the bridge.
That's really great.
Probably that's all.
And when they bring stuff over, I'll put that back on his desk.
And there's a beautiful ode from John D. Dicker.
Yes, I must see that.
It really is lovely.
This is...
All kinds of people have it.
You have a problem with them all talking about it.
Does your doctor put an FYI folder for baby this weekend for you?
Yes.
Are you going to be working on your inaugural address this weekend?
Don't put anything in the FYI folder, Rose.
From now until the inaugural.
And then after that, I will have a time.
Okay.
Not even birthday messages?
No, but I want to see it, but I don't want to see it now.
My plan at the moment, incidentally, is probably to go to Ward.
Senator.
Or Senator.
Depending upon when Henry gets back, he'll get back to Senator or Senator.
If he gets back too late, he'll get canceled, like I did with Henry before.
And when, I think I told you, when Julie and I were walking together the other day about this project, I said, you know, I've got to go to Florida sometime before the inauguration, or go someplace and be by myself for life, do some intensive work, you know, and I told Julie later that there would be occasions when
Well, the other point of it is that I wanted to get my son's son.
It's not only the son for the parents, but actually he could be a little better.
He could be a little...
I think.
And when we left, I went down there and we sent her.
There were two problems, basically.
It was as cold as the day.
It got in the water.
I think that it would be a good idea, in this case, for you to go to...
I'm going to take Ray Price.
They're also going to take Christopher to retrieve domestic typos down there so that they can say, I'm working on domestic messages.
But Price will go.
Because I'm not...
I think I need to get out of this town.
Do the blinding.
Now, all these letters and things, uh... Oh, don't worry about it.
Well, somebody could think of a good... That's right.
There aren't that many, uh...
But the markings on them are, uh, are, uh... You can sign that in today if you want a letter, because they'll be in...
Well, letters, of course you go there.
Well, I didn't go there, but... What else did you do?
Well, Paul said he mentioned first a call, and they have had a letter from you, and he got a call.
Fine.
If you had signed today.
Well, he said the time.
He gave you the time.
He told me, yeah, I've got it on a piece of paper in my office, what time it may be.
It'll be after 12 o'clock time.
All right, fine.
That's what Paul had to get back.
You call me, and I'll call them and get them home.
Because they can both get on.
Right.
They were the funniest thing.
They really were.
And they did it.
I thought it was a very good job.
But be sure to show them this fact today.
Anytime of the day.
I want everybody to see.
This was a lot of fun.
Just a lot of fun.
when one is the age of 60 he has he has had to he had been exposed to
a great number of birthday parties.
No, subjected to a great number of birthday parties.
Certainly no one could have had a better party than me.
I had last night.
And what really was the frosting on the birthday cake was the film.
It was the hilarious film, which put their names in, Blank, Rowan, and Martin.
in which Marlon Martin participated, and which featured football goofs over the years.
Paul Keyes told me about all the work he did, too.
He did it in helping to prepare the company.
I want you to know how grateful I am for the part you played in making my 60th birthday one of the very best.
Because Paul said he did do it.
He went through all the edit-out stuff and sent Paul's hours of that.
Paul must have spent days editing that stuff.
That football thing.
Because that was really, really hilarious.
And the running comments that Roman and Mark threw at him.
I better want to be sure of Ziegler's season and so forth.
It may be that, I think, too, that it could be shown to the White House press instead.
There's nothing in there, you know, that's bad.
How little concerned about their going public with it, as you mentioned?
No, no, I don't mean to, I don't think you can go public.
I realized that when I said, I realized that because they have their contracts and all that sort of thing, you know, and they can't do that.
But on the other hand,
And people that, that there are no, no, he doesn't, he isn't concerned about just anybody seeing it.
Oh, no, he isn't concerned about that.
He doesn't care about it.
He doesn't care about it.
He doesn't care about it.
He doesn't care about it.
He doesn't care about it.
He doesn't care about it.
He doesn't care about it.
I've got to see it again myself.
I want to see it again, too.
Because last night, you weren't expecting all that music.
No, I wasn't expecting it.
I wasn't assembling it.
You just saw a line bleeding in because you're still laughing about the old...
This is just a note that John Thomas called last night while you were in the theater.
He and Nellie really wanted to listen to it.
you can sort of take it away, take it all you can, develop it from the very beginning, and just say that you can ask for the support you would want to give us, if you know what I mean.
And that... You don't have to do that.
and a couple others, for old friends and supporters.
They didn't get it.
I just can't get over the fact, though, that they, I mean, Julia was, of course, very, and Pat, too, appreciative.
I mean, they said, one of just, it was, I really surprised, and I was, I didn't have the slightest, the slightest idea that other people were gonna be there.
And when they said, boom,
I didn't have the slightest idea that it was because we had other guests.
I must say that that, uh, that blue room, that's one of the most beautiful things we've ever had.
It really is.
Isn't it better than that goddamn upstairs?
Oh, yeah.
You see, it might despise that wallpaper.
Yeah, that wallpaper there is terrible for dining.
It's cheery when you can hardly see it and you have the fireplace on.
But it's not a cheerful moment.
But the goddamn downstairs is a grand room.
Beautiful.
The people that are having dinner are beautiful.
It's really a place that's got to be small.
Oh, I mean, it is small, isn't it?
And I mean, don't be a good man.
those things that have come in.
You know, Patrick Cannon did that for us yesterday, and he had them sort of at the start of the flu or cold, and he worked hard anyway.
He's writing a book right now, so that's his problem.
Oh, is that what he's doing?
Yeah, he's got a special short book on the election.
Somebody's asking him to write it, and he's making a fool of myself about it.
Well, he was so cute.
He got such a kick out of it.
I thought his captions were fine.
But B.B., B.B.
and Julie, and B.B.
's the one who asked if I had any funny caricatures or paintings.
Well, you got that, and you got all those things, and telegrams, and B.B.
wrote them.
Who wrote those?
B.B.
did that.
That's why Paul said, I'm taking no credit for those.
Poor B.B.
missed a short one before he got another.
Oh, but they were great.
But they were funny.
Funny.
Yeah.
Funny.
Did you go back to them?
He's so great.
But they really put it on, and that was much the better way to do it.
What big staff parties are you going to have?
No, it's not done.
Anyway, but that's too big now to be...
It will come down.
That's right.
Like the vice presidential debate.
It's a very small thing.
It's no longer that way.
And I'm a friend of his.
So you can't do it.
And it just isn't.
And you can't come to this point.
Can we try to use it?
I do invite...
secretaries and so forth, and the movie, which I think is a good thing, you know.
It gives a real feel for how that works sometimes.
That's as far as I can go, because the people are, well, there's too many that it's not fair to.
There are people that work down here that I never hear about.
And I work at New York, and I work, and they're right up close here.
They work hard, and they're still loyal.
I work with people in the mail room when they work, and I never see them.
They work night and day, they work very hard.
That, that noble Melvin Camp, who's going to be leaving, who's spending, who took Hopkins' place, he's one of the most loyal, hard-working, and the very first thing he asks about everything is, and he keeps repeating to our people, you don't think about whether this is good for you, or this, or that, is this a thing for the president?
Is he going to be going back to State Department?
Yes, he's been here since.
His career would be ruined if he weren't here.
I know.
But he really, he's from Kansas, and he really, he would do anything.
I'm sure he comes in.
He just, he should, I don't say it about all of them.
No.
Yeah, I think that would be very good.
He said he's the one who really got our correspondence section looked up before he left and came on to take care of the job.
Very good.
There's a lot of questions.
They were awesome.
I thought that was very different.
Oh, you're very handsome in that hat.
Wasn't that film funny?
It was.
I don't know if you like it, but Mrs. Brown, the woman with the man, the lady around.
He's got crack up all over his head.
I think that the whole sense of it, and there's a kick out of that, but there's so many people getting involved, like I'm wearing Santa's ring.
After Henry's back, some of the other kids coming up, so it's Henry and Al Hagen, some of the people, too.
They feel they've kicked out.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh, it would be a great thing to, this thing that we kept running and showing around and just talking about people.
I'd like to have some other people running.
It's so damn fun.
You know what the other way, well there's no time for that because maybe some of the old friends who are back.
Yeah, well they'll find a way.
There's always time for us.
There's always time.
And that theater's there.
But at least they've got to get in the ground.
But that's why I'd like to see, I'd like to see whether you could do it at EOP.
It's so much easier.
Then they don't have to, people could come out when they come in from the outside with no problem at EOP and then put it on.
But it's no problem.
It's a great thing.
Well, you can do that, and I'll let you do a stick.
I'm sure it's a good thing.
You know, one fellow who's now sort of all of a sudden become very old with Roger.
Yes.
I mean, in a year, you know, all of a sudden, you know, he's always so young because he has all this hair.
He looks young, sort of young.
Yeah, sort of.
Someone told me he may have had, I don't know if this is even true, he may have had some minor surgery or something, so there may be something about it, you know.
Well, it could be prostate cancer, which is so common, or any type of cancer.
But that's why we could have Paul Keyes and Beebe, and Bob and Hope are good, because
Louise and Roger are not really what I call fun.
They don't let you.
They don't let me harm them.
That's the other thing.
You see the difficulty with the drones is that they may live, but they may do harm.
The Johnsons never live, but they never do harm.
And they're not people.
They've never had the Johnsons, and they never bragged about it, and they never hurt your feelings.
You know what I mean?
So the Johnsons are good.
They don't have people.
They're very good.
They're very good.
And everyone, I know that everybody had such a good time.
But we've got to get a little bit bigger for you to see.
Don't.
Let me tell you this.
I've seen them.
I've seen them all.
The reason we have it, he had that one.
That's just an old one.
The older girls are clean.
I know.
That's a lot better than the new ones.
Have you seen 1776?
I know you saw the movie.
I mean the show.
No, but I haven't seen it.
Sometime after the opera you might like to see it because it's good.
They did a good job on the movie.
Wow.
Did you see Young Winston?
We saw that.
That was very good.
Did we see quite a few movies?
Because we always see a couple of 3D cameras.
So that's the time that we used them up.
And we don't see any leak.
No.
So, but I guess other people just must see these horrible, crazy movies.
Did you ever move it that far like that?
Absolutely horrible.
That was an elimination one?
No.
I don't see it.
Then it covered.
We ought to see that.
You ought to see it, or else I ought to get it back to you.
Yeah, put that down.
Put that down.
Absolutely.
General, what's his name?
Oh, she's so beautiful.
My parents are really great.
They really are.
She is, too.
That's right.
Garbage girl.
Well.
Anyway, I don't know if I need to raise the picture or not.
Work it out, too.
I'm gonna...
Her $20,000, you know, that I... See, the idea is that I borrow it from her.
And I said, no, I'll just...
I'll borrow it and pay you, which I'm gonna pay you interest.
Then I'll invest it.
If the deal comes off well, I'll give it to you.
If it doesn't come off, I owe you money.
Because I knew she wouldn't do it well.
Well, at the present time, as a result of the sale of the lots,
Her $20,000 is worth $60,000, a little less than 50, but I'm going to make it 60.
But I'm not going to give it to her.
I told her, I said, let me just keep it green.
And I put it in this one.
Let me keep it green.
That's it.
We'll pay the interest.
So we'll get $3,000 a year interest.
Because, you know, they'll blow it.
They'll invest it or something silly.
I tell you, that kid, he didn't understand a letter yesterday.
She told me.
Now, she sent to me asking me to give you a letter like that for your birthday.
And all it was was a letter phrasing her.
I said, isn't it?
I think...
But like for instance, that...
That's Sunday church service.
I think, uh, Mamie Adlock is the only one you want included in that.
Would she, would she stand?
Well, she's also a former president's wife.
They were going to leave John Barbro, because then if you have John Barbro, you have to go to college.
Oh, absolutely.
John Barbro can't come.
But Mamie can come as a wife of a former president.
That's exactly right.
We're not going to have Barbro having no surgery on us.
I know.
We haven't got room.
You know, you've got to draw the rules.
I mean, I talked to you from home.
And I said, make a rule.
And I said, even if you don't build the room, the best thing is to have a hundred people there.
You see the point is, you're absolutely right.
The moment you break over and have anybody else,
And about John Bartlett's children, and the Cox children, and... Just say it.
Well, and you know, like somebody from the staff, when he was invited to talk about his mother, and I said, no, there aren't going to be any outside.
No, sir.
Because if you start with one, we're dead.
We can't turn down John Shaheen, who was the premier of Nova Scotia, and let's talk about his mother.
No mothers.
No mothers.
No mothers and no children.
No girlfriends.
Right?
Would you agree with this?
They can bring their husbands.
In other words, any member of the administration that is invited can bring his or her...
I don't think there are any single men.
Huh?
I don't even think there are any single men.
Well...
I think I'm the only one who put on the list who said that.
Well, what I mean is that's what it is, though.
If there are any single men, they are not to bring any bodies of other people.
That's because the moment you start... You bring... And no mothers...
Yeah, well, I think that's a good rule, because then we have a perfect answer.
And then all the other church systems start to happen while they're here.
And they start coming.
Yeah, because there are too many people in town.
It's just too bad that we just... And the same ones always get the facts.
You know, the ones who get too much treatment, they're just not going to happen.
Like, I love John Sheen, and I know that I like him.
He understood perfectly.
I explained it to him.
And I told him also that we had hundreds of calls and that you'd like to have everybody in, but as he will know, 300 is the top.
And the only way we could do it was to make it for the new administration.
And that, I think that...
But there will be another time.
Because one time we had one person in and not another, we had 35,000 people with her, so...
If he understood first...
Whenever you're talking to anybody in the future, you can say, for example, the president is inviting his brothers.
Right, because you're not having any of the Nixons arrive, because they're coming in.
That's a very good thing to say, if not, we aren't having any of the analogs, you know, only the immediate family.
As far as that, we should certainly be advised.
And I think you're right.
At least I think I heard that's what you're telling them on the Hill for that luncheon.
Only you're a media fan, and Pat, and Joyce, and Julie, and the others.
Because before, they were all there, and I think that was too big.
It was too big.
It was too big.
And also the Congress should get the attention.
And then the Congress had about a day long.
And those people have all been now, about two, three of them.
They've been to them, and left them to go right back down to the... And this is their fourth inauguration.
And they've had Dr. Arlo, as you said, speak to them every day each time.
I don't know who's working.
It's Ed Sullivan working on it.
And he had buses arranged, and cars arranged, and they all had boxes lined up.
Well, they all had buses lined up.
That was the bitch in Miami.
We don't have any special objects, those things.
Those are rented in this town.
They should have sent that car past the road.
They all said the same thing.
I just, if I say it, I don't know what I heard it from, but she was angry that you told them that because they didn't have a bigger car.
I heard somebody tell you that.
Because she didn't know they'd have a bigger car than a car at the convention.
What in the name of God?
I mean, why do they have a car at all?
You know what I mean?
They're lucky they have a car.
Not really.
The thing is that Ed and his family should have one of the same size cars, Don and his family.
And so should the Ryan.
They should all have the same thing.
And that's what David's trying to do, make it all equal.
And he's also trying to avoid having Don step in.
And like, I know you know what happened last time, but that helped him with it.
Barbara and John and I were there, and they ran and paid their hotel bill.
And Don said, oh, no, everything should be on the house for Barbara and John.
That's just because they want to pay.
That's the way Don is, though.
He said it's funny.
He said he sent the bill to us.
He's always, yeah, but he always picks up cash.
Did he send the bill to us?
Of course he did.
About $70,000 he picked up at that time, which is what Ned avoided.
He was trying to avoid it.
Well, they sure wrote a letter explaining it.
They should, really, because, you know, there are a lot of little workmen, and Ned has got a special, they're on a chartered plane, because there are enough of them from California.
Yeah.
And so they all come, and he's got it so that it's all coached, so there'll be no fighting between who got the best seat.
All coached.
Right.
And it's cheaper, you know, when you have enough people to have chartered planes.
Much cheaper, and it's a good rate for them.
Are you working hard on it?
Well, there can't be any special treatment.
Incidentally, Mrs. Eisenhardt, Mamie Eisenhardt, can come.
For another reason, Rose.
She is a, uh...
she's just the former president of your wife because after all uh she's the grandmother of david and so you would have david that's the mother correct she's that she said that is given right it's because she's the wife of former president that's it because otherwise david i mean john the father and the mother which is closer
With Don, when they are, all of them are here, that is a nice thing to show them that.
The other thing, too, is to make a recommendation.
If they have enough time.
I'm sure they don't really, they've lined them up with parties, parties, parties, which is what they all enjoy, too.
Sure, because they don't have parties like this, Rose.
No.
Yes, they do.
They have some, but not like this.
You know, I remember when I,
You know, you've seen them all.
Yet people like to go every year, don't they?
Well, that's great.
One of the things that is good is that I really think it's having three inaugural concerts rather than getting that terrible Washington Symphony with that left-wing composer.
I want to respect
Well, I think... Well, Hortman is my man.
That's right.
The Philadelphia Symphony is a better symphony than this.
Someone mentioned it to me and said something about, oh, this is a great introduction.
Yeah.
And I said, oh, come on now, don't tell anyone this time.
The president is the one who went out to the shore and he's the one who made it possible to raise the money to these people.
What did the district do for the president this time?
Well, also, the chairman of the symphony was McGovern for a minute.
Yes.
No, what the hell?
That's what I also said.
What did they do?
Come on, let's face it.
What have they done?
The way that the district happens when you're leaving, you know.
You've done what?
I agree with the Redskins as far as I know.
And you've done more for culture and all that?
For everything.
But we're going to spread it around now.
I mean, the district doesn't deserve it.
No, they don't.
First place.
the blacks basically are
Well, there's basically, uh, one thing that's, uh, one thing I'm going to say is that these, uh, these literary things are different than the one people in the history of God write and use and so forth and so on.
But basically, they're not, uh, they're not gone.
Uh, in a sense, they've never lived again.
It's a beauty when I see it.
Beauty when I see it, sometimes.
You sure did.
For the same show we had done, sat through in L.A.?
Miss Guinness.
What?
Yeah, remember that cavalcade with musical comedy or something?
Yeah, it's true.
I think it was a little better here than there.
It was.
But that was pretty sad.
It wasn't Sterling Holloway narrating it, which was a disaster.
Oh, yeah, that was terrible.
It was terrible.
It was terrible.
We're still trying to figure something out.
So let's do it on availability this morning.
All right, then we'll keep the day free.
All right, sir.
All right, Steve.
I thought you had something else.
Yes, sir.
I wanted to say one thing about the foolish race of Keogh.
He and Jim Keogh have gotten together and they're pushing very hard to keep Frank's man.
They think he's indispensable and so forth and so on.
I just, you know, I didn't want to keep it one on the other side.
And I didn't want to get into any thing with him.
I said, well, I'm interested.
I didn't put it that way, but I know there's a campaign there of some kind that John Kendall called the other day saying that, well, I
you know we got to do something about that he said well he was disturbed that we weren't standing chairman of the red cross which the you know remember that came up with that one might be a point well that's exactly the point but kendall's argument is well stan supported the president in the campaign and you know it was outspokenly in favor of this election and all that i said well that's if either you or he looked at his interest
Well, maybe he does, but he doesn't.
But apparently he is good on that board.
I have to.
Everybody says he is.
It's interesting, Shakespeare said you ought to serve this term and have enough.
The art of making change.
Well, you better talk to Shakespeare again.
Okay.
Let me say it.
Let me put it this way.
What we were going to do...
I have to give it on email.
I remember you told me.
No.
The first... No, the first...
I mean, let me say this.
The only point about it is I couldn't care less.
I'm never going to see the board again anyway.
That board is done.
Just like the other one.
I'm going to have it all done through...
They're going to have to have the property saved.
Well, from a political viewpoint, the signal was going to be you have Frank Stanton, an anti-Nixon, basically, Republican, off the board.
And you put on Leonard Wrench, a pro-Nixon Democrat, who is the head of Cox Broadcasting, who, you know, ordered their apparatus to endorse you and went balls out for you all the way.
And Wrench is an interesting single because he was Kennedy's television man.
So he's got all kinds of interesting Democrat ties, but is a Nixon man now.
And is Connolly's guy.
And so the plan was to replace Sandlin with Branch, and then the next vacancy that comes up would go to O'Neill of the Daily News, who went on the trip with him.
Yeah.
Well, I don't want to hold.
Hold, as you know, is a non-politic.
He's probably unsubstantial.
He probably is.
He's a brilliant guy.
And he also, as you well know, denigrates people of the Holbrook type.
He is a great, he is a great orator.
He's a great orator.
That's right.
Great orator.
Kind of let them understand, I have no money.
And I'm sure that he did say that he was for us.
And I'm sure, on the other hand, that his network, you know, nobody out in the country believes that Frank Sandler is for you or that CBS is for you.
And we're going to go Frank Sandler.
Well, the worst, the worst network is CBS.
And we raised hell.
And I think it makes us look like fences.
That's the problem with the Red Cross, and that's, I've got to explain to Kendall that... And somebody that's first.
Let's see, Roland Harriman put the heat on Kendall.
I don't think Kendall did.
Roland Harriman, 90 years old.
Harriman got, well, Harriman wanted to put, put, uh, Stan, Stan's retired, you know what I mean?
Clif Holder's too old for that, isn't it?
Clif?
Yeah.
Well, we didn't.
The Len Hall mansion.
I love it.
But could Clif do the rest of our life to do it for us?
He's not going to do it.
He's not going to do it.
Why not?
Why don't we give it?
Why don't we have Holder do it?
Now, you understand.
Holder's...
How is it changing like this?
It doesn't matter.
It's turned around the board of the Red Cross.
There's a president of the Red Cross who runs it who's the full-time page guy.
He's been on it before.
He knows what it's like.
He's coming back there, you know, somewhere.
Try it again.
We've wanted to do something for years.
Why not?
It's a highly...
The problem is he's recommended by the board.
What happened is that the chairman of the nomination committee is Saul Linowitz, who's also no friend.
Linowitz?
He's against us.
Well, he wasn't against us.
Well, he wasn't against us in this.
Are you sure?
Yeah.
I just want to understand.
You know about Xerox?
Yeah.
Xerox was split.
They weren't against us.
All right.
You'd just like to take a look at Mark Shantz's list.
He was on the end.
But anyway, Lenowitz called Elliot Richardson and said, the Red Cross board has, I'm the chairman of the non-agency, we have to suggest to the president a candidate for him to appoint as chairman of the Red Cross because Roland Harlan is stepping down finally.
And he said, we would like to know if there would be an objection or if it would be met with disfavor if Frank Stanton were to be suggested.
Because that would be this unanimous hearing of the Board of Governors.
We'd just put him on the Board of Governors.
And Richardson said, let me check.
Richardson called and talked to Chuck, and Chuck talked to you.
And got back to Elliott and said, it would not be received favorably.
It would not be a welcome suggestion for something like that.
And Elliott said, I understand.
He called Lenowitz back and said, it would not be welcome.
And Lenowitz said, gee, I'm glad I checked with you.
And I appreciate that advice.
We'll come up with some other names.
Then the next thing I hear is from Kendall calling, saying, Roland Harriman has called him.
No, Frank Stanton has called him.
And said Roland Harriman had called Stanton, saying the president would appoint him to the chairmanship of the Red Cross.
And, you know, he wanted to know if that was a problem, because he would like to be chairman or something.
So it's the most...
working on Keough and Hogue, who are both nice guys to be had, working on the other side on Don Kendall, who basically cannot be had, but usually can.
He was basically the first one on the business council.
He was telling us that they were the greatest people in the world.
He was trying to get them to line up.
He changed his damn mind fast.
Well, he tried to get them to stand up and all that, and he decided when he called on the phone one day before the election campaign, Jesus, when this is over, just don't get sucked back into the business council.
Those people won't stand up for us.
This has been a real eye-opener.
I've found out who our real friends are and who are...
He said, they're not opposed to it.
They don't say, I'm from a government.
But it's just in there.
Would you give a speech?
Would you send a mailing out to your employees?
Would you do this or that or any of these things?
Oh, no, we couldn't do that.
the business council type started the non-prestigious guy he said would you send the guy said what can i do now i'm wanting we've got to get nixon elected can i send a letter to my stockholder can i send i'm going to call all my employees in and order them to vote for him you know and they know what they're doing you see that's the thing that we've got to get uh we don't have kendall's kendall's getting the list right is he yeah he's i think we've got we've got some ways he's got more exchanges
You know what I mean?
We know who did and who didn't.
Or he put in his bad list this time, too.
Oh, did he?
Called it his S list, and he said, that's for a four-letter word.
Give it to Rose.
I thought you had it.
You have it somewhere.
Why?
I'll tell you why.
He's redoing all those lists.
This was a preliminary list.
I may not have sent it to you, because I don't think it ought to be.
Well, we kept the other ones.
He kept it locked up in the safe.
The S list.
By Paul Rose.
Yes, Rose ought to have it.
and then we'll put it in there.
Yeah, because we have to put all those people in it.
Oh, there's some people on there that will greatly surprise you.
Greatly surprise you.
There's people that give lip service to help you, but then screw this.
You know, like Dan Evans.
Well, that won't surprise you too much, but a little.
I mean, he had moved some...
I mean, you get business people, political people, and so on, who... Why didn't he do it?
No, it undercuts him.
And you know Maurice Sands has never lied about such a thing.
He had somebody all lined up to give $150,000 and then somebody on the S-list called and said, no, no, they don't need the money.
Well, for example, he gave $100,000, so you're not going to put $100,000 on that list, is that right?
No.
Oh, he's been on that list for a long time.
Ludwig cut us because of that Ludwig, you know.
Ludwig, a billionaire.
After we made three deals, fans intervened for Ludwig at the Interior Department on three things he shouldn't have gotten into.
Yeah, because he didn't really give us very much in 1968.
No, but he had come around on a different way and said, well, I'm all set now, and if I can just get these things worked out, I've got them worked out.
And then Brownell said, don't give him anything.
Brownell's a bad guy.
What about the, the, that Whitney?
Did he give the one who wanted the ambassadorship the same?
Oh, the old Whitney?
I don't know.
You know, he's rejuvenated some.
I think he went up to Dr. Woodson and got him those, you know, like dishes.
He looks absolutely marvelous.
He looks, he looks 20 years younger.
Maybe he's taking Jack Dreyfuss' pills.
Well, maybe.
Or he stands to Jack Dreyfuss' pills all through the campaign and said it's what saved him.
Really?
And he said, you know, Oh, you know Dreyfuss.
The land.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, the lantern is for deafness.
No, but it's also... No, it drives us and secures everything.
No, and he's getting somewhere with it.
Apparently, it doesn't make...
He's been saying this to me, and I said, I'll tell you about what I ate.
I said, well, Jack, you know, and then I mentioned his sleep.
Well, it helped me.
Well, he said it helped sleep.
I took him for sleep.
a few times a day.
It doesn't help to do it daily.
Well, I think it helps people who are anxiety-prone more, you know.
And I think it's fantastic.
But what did Mills do for it?
He said, I don't know whether they did any good or not, except that I sure think they did, because they kept me on a very uneven key or something.
He said, I used Jack Colby.
He said, you're under the kind of strain you're under.
You've got to do something.
He said, these will take care of it.
So I used them.
The reason I mentioned Jack Colby, because he wrote again last night saying he was too old for something.
Good God.
One of our rich men.
Right, Rose?
Yeah, maybe there's some other old committee we can give.
I'd love to.
All I'd do is thank her and say good morning.
Yeah.
One thing.
Oh, she was a wonderful man.
He's got his wife.
That's his wife that's on the board.
Foundation.
Who?
White Foundation.
Kennedy Center.
We put her on there, yeah.
That's terrible.
I just wish we could get some Democrat to introduce into the Senate a bill to name that the National... National Center for the Performing Arts, or called the Eisenhardt Kennedy Center.
No, I mean, I don't have anybody to name them, because you, four presidents had something to do with it.
Well, what they want to do now is that you have a hell of a time change.
They'll never use the name.
congressional memorial to John Kennedy.
What they want to do is they're going to push hard.
Well, maybe it's a good idea, but you know, you've got the Eisenhower Theater.
They're pushing very hard for the Nixon and Johnson theaters.
They want to wait until after the election.
No, no, they're there.
See, there are three theaters.
One's named the Eisenhower Theater.
They want to name the Opera House, the Johnson Opera House, and the Nixon Concert Hall or vice versa.
And all four should be recognized in the place.
I think you should have it.
Well, they haven't named anything for me yet, so I don't know if they'll ever get any name.
Well, we don't want to get shot.
Oh, I understand.
I understand.
But basically, they have not.
In Paris, they named everyone for us now.
Who the hell cares?
I don't care.
They haven't named anything for Harry Truman.
It's really shameful.
That poor guy was one of the great, certainly one of the ten great.
He had character and guns.
And he sat here at a time when decisions had to be made, and that's what made him mad.
He dropped the internet.
No support.
He walked with the Greek British law.
And he went into Korea, and that was right.
And he fired MacArthur, which was right.
Well, I don't know.
I didn't agree with it.
I think his firing of MacArthur was right in terms of the situation he created.
He cannot have a general say that Thomas Nelson is the president, but I think he created the whole situation to take MacArthur's advice as wrong.
MacArthur was right in saying, Bob, cross the aisle.
That was the time to finish the goddamn left with a commoner song, but he didn't do it.
But the president, given the situation where the president's wrong and the general's right,
It's still an overly long one.
Truman did.
We'd like a couple of months to get this into America.
You can't.
Even when the president is wrong, you cannot have this one.
And I have to say that we had an argument.
This is the thing.
We had an argument.
It's very much not true.
It's not true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
It's true.
They ought to come in and try to walk you up a little, Senator Swain.
I wish we could try some of our senators and congressmen for treatment.
I'll worry about that.
I really do.
Someday, someday we'll write it up.
The story will be told, Rosemary.
Let me say that with regard to the family thing, but just because it's all over.
Dr. Rose and Ms. Ned Sullivan.
We ought to give them the Purple Heart or something.
He's got a charter plane.
Oh, you know the inaugural?
I know.
Oh, God.
And it's a very difficult thing.
But I just want to tell you that last night, all of these had a film made by Martin and all.
And they showed it in the theater.
And it runs like you said, 15 minutes.
Not more than that.
It is one of the funniest things.
It's a birthday greeting from our son.
What I would like to do, I just don't know, is to have the whole staff see it today.
Don't go there too late.
And particularly, I wouldn't want the cigarettes here.
I would have no objection to a few selected people in the press just going in and seeing his old friends.
Yeah, this is the funniest damn thing you've ever seen.
It's not funny at all.
It's not funny at all.
I don't have time anyway.
You can take it.
So set up a time.
Everybody say everybody in the president wants you to see a bill.
And this is something you can get everybody to get in.
Like Ann Bolz's crowd.
People like that.
Get in nice things.
We've had several showings.
Listen, if you don't mind, if you don't mind doing it at the EOB, that's where we should go.
I understand, but if you don't mind our doing it over there.
Yeah.
You can see the family theater.
It's terrible for everybody else.
It's a lousy thing.
It's just terrible.
You can see more.
And it is... We can see 200 over there and they can everybody see because it's a raised theater seating where that view... Bring it over.
Yeah.
Show it at noon or, you know, 1 o'clock.
And I'll bet you, I'll bet you everybody will be suspicious.
Yeah.
And particularly if anyone's been around in a little while.
It should be basically people that have been, that are...
Without, not in, but... Heard.
Heard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can we send the president away?
Well, I want you to know about...
I want you to know about...
I want you to know that...
I want you to know that...
I want you to know that...
I want you to know that...
I want you to know that...
I want you to know that...
I want you to know that...
He really, Rose should not have raised him last night.
No, I didn't know he did.
And nobody should ever, one rule that you all always have with our friends, they should never raise anything about government on the site.
We used to have a group with Eisenhower.
Nobody, they were singers.
Yeah.
Like when you went to play golf at Burning Creek, anybody that ever talked to him about it would be practically thrown out of the club.
Now, no one should raise, I don't know.
I don't know how to raise that kind of thing with you or with me.
He ought to be assured when he raises it with you or with us that it'll go through and that we'll raise it with the president.
I mean, because, listen, he wants to hear it from me.
No, and we'll do the best thing you do.
Yeah.
I always thought if you could put on the stand that you shouldn't be in the position to deal with it.
I don't want to have to say, I could never say the whole blow to Chico, but I don't want to stand in the good right now.
one of us about it.
He tried to John, or to me, or to you, or whoever, and he's never raised himself.
He doesn't raise himself.
Now, my question is, Hope also brought the Bicentennial, didn't he?
God, yes.
He's part of the problem.
in two rows, not just as your own.
He isn't just your friend.
He also is a government official.
We use him on these courses.
Or maybe we don't.
What do you say about the license?
Well, what he basically said was that we need to get somebody really strong who has all the time they can to run.
He agreed with what you said.
that there should be foundations, and it should be from the first grade on up, and now there's no doubt on who's going to be president in July of 76, and it should be really done beautifully, but it is a job that will require constant time of some bright man.
Yes, the executive director has got to be a man of genius.
Well, he even said that David Mahoney is too busy running an enormous corporation.
Mahoney is.
Well, he's not capable.
No, I know.
Mahoney could do it if he had the time, but he works for Norton Science.
It was a sign of a degree.
Hell, he was going to get through it.
Well, of course, he's on a fast track.
Whether a sign is a sign of a degree or not, actually a sign of a degree doesn't have much to do with it anymore.
No, but... Oh, it has something to do with it.
But Dave is a very ambitious man.
But Dave is a sign of a degree himself.
He's driving himself.
And this is his chance to come through, which he's doing.
And why is he coming here?
We wish him the best, honey.
We wish him the best.
He ought to get out of this thing.
And we ought to get someone in this thing.
I wish a guy, for example, that could do it.
This is Don Kendall.
Don Kendall has the drive.
I don't know whether he has the time.
He'd almost have to
I'll tell you, it would be a hell of a good way to do it if you can't put it in, but if we find a guy like it, that's the answer to this strange thing.
It's a guy like that.
Now, just retired and has full-time...
There really isn't much problem with the fact that this has to be non-partisan.
The only problem, the only problem...
I think for us to give Franks that, you can't give...
It would be a wrong signal.
On the other hand, we just can't have all the battles CBS and everybody else, we've got all the battles in the country.
I don't know what you're going to do with him.
Do you have any doubt about the all-out battle?
Look at their special on the next four years.
Daniel Shore has come through so clearly in his true colors that it's beyond even George Shultz.
That was a couple of months ago.
The other thing I understand is that Howard K. Smith, the other night... Oh, he was superb.
Last night, Paul Keyes was telling us about him.
They came over and he said he was so superb, he took on the Pope, he took on the congressmen and the senators, he took on everybody.
Paul, at this point of Nixon being the worst bomber in all time, you know, this stuff, and this was the worst bomb, he says utterly...
In the first place, the man who was the heaviest bomber of all time was Franklin Roosevelt.
He was the man who bombed more people to death than anybody in history.
The next strongest bomber was Harry Truman, who dropped, in just dropping two bombs, eliminated two cities from the earth.
And the end point of that was when the North Vietnamese took over and killed all those people.
worst bomber of all time was Dwight Eisenhower, who had a calculated move, went in and devastated, on a terror-moaning basis of unbelievable proportions, devastated the civilian population of segments of North Korea.
He said Richard Nixon, even in his blanket carpet bombing, was in very good civilians.
And I'm concerned about it, but it's good that a guy like Howard Smith, who has an audience, and who says it with conviction, said something like that.
When I take them all for it, when I say it, I just say, there's nothing we can do about it anyway.
except for instance when we do this uh when we do this uh uh wage price control announcement tomorrow shore will be in the audience and he'll he's the guy that tried to sink us before on you know by moving around he's going to he'll he'll jump again on this and schultz is fully prepared just wants to do this sure i'll ask a question and schultz is going to look at it very coldly say mr shore when we first announced the wage price control you took it upon yourself as a personal program
information and he's going to cite it to individual people it's clear to me that nothing would be served by answering your question well there's nobody better to say that george is such a nice man and everybody knows he's an honest man but he's going to do it in front of the press for her and he's going to hit shore on the fact that he was not reporting he was substantively trying
Yeah, I've forgotten what it was he did.
I remember the incident, but not the details.
And so he's going to cite it with facts.
And he said, and then Irwin is going to follow up on any questions Shore says on the basis of Mr.
Shore.
I had the misfortune to watch your analysis of the next four years, and it's absolutely clear that there's no way I could satisfy your
The shortest analysis based on economics.
Everything.
Anything.
It got so bad, apparently.
I haven't seen it, but I've been told that we should all see it just in case.
No.
No, they say we should all see it.
I mean, read it.
So our soft-hearted folk ought to see it so they don't ever... Oh, that's right.
I want to see it.
I'll tell you the ones I want to see.
I want to see the new cabinet.
I want to brand it.
Yep.
People like that that are new to the cabinet.
Yep.
But...
It finally got to the point where he said, well, I'm worried about such and such, and Severide interrupted and said, Dan, you're worried about everything, but let's look at what's happening.
Or something, you know, that even Severide was getting embarrassed.
Sure, it sure is.
Fortunately, he doesn't really do us as much harm.
He's so clearly partisan that there's no question about it.
We were looking into him.
We were looking into him.
He was not for a job.
That's right.
Actually, we were looking into him, Rose, because of national security.
Remember the leaks from the North Vietnamese and his name happened to come into the dam.
I think the problem probably is that there's a very serious security risk.
Well, we had some evidence of that.
That's right.
Remember that?
How do we investigate this?
See, the North Vietnamese, so that's the whole deal.
And it wasn't an FBI investigation.
It wasn't.
They were supposed to make a repeat check to see whether he was making these contacts with the North Indian police.
They blew that up.
But why did Hoover do it?
Shor started long before that.
I mean, a lot of people say that it's because of that that Shor became mad.
Shor was a violent and partisan bomb before that.
Oh, he was a violent partisan when you were a senator, when you were a vice president.
I remember seeing him at some kind of sentence.
And he was so against Eisenhower and you and everyone that I walked away from.
You know why they're dying?
Because he won the election.
And that's it.
It's so big.
They're lost, and we won.
The names they stood for lost, and the names we stood for won, and they just don't like to resent.
And they're going to like it less and less as time goes on.
That's right.
Although some of us guys are trying to pull back and say, well, they do.
They can't give you all the news, and you do need to read the written word.
Oh, yeah.
I didn't turn the news on, man.
Do you understand when I say that I don't want our people to deliberately turn on something nasty and put it to the purpose?
My purpose is I don't want our reaction to these people to be irrational.
I want it to be like Sigler's.
The great strength of Sigler in that press room is that he never gets emotional, but he's cold, ruthless, and vicious when he lands.
But he's icy.
Now, when you get emotional, then you're in trouble.
Now, if people sit and look at some
And you won't get emotional about it.
But the reason, as a matter of fact, I look at it for other reasons, because I've done a hell of a lot of work here.
And I know what it is.
I can predict what they're going to say.
But I agree.
I agree that the people who need to be indoctrinated by God have that sin.
Then they'll know what they're up against.
I agree with you on that.
You know what I mean?
But people should not run around the White House here
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
represent what the people of this country think.
There's no thought of that.
It's just to make sure they know how little they do represent and what the people of this country think.
That's right.
And these new people are going to be running into these people at social events.
That's correct.
It's where they need to know what these people are like.
You know, I was just saying, people are doing this.
It's something you can go say to somebody, tackle her about the fact that after the election, why were you terrible about it?
I wrote letters for them, you know.
And I told them I asked them what they had sent to the president.
Yeah, exactly.
Jean Ehrlichman's on the symphony board, and she was giving me a bad time about the symphony thing.
And I said, Jean, would the symphony be in existence if it weren't for the president?
She said, oh no, he saved it.
He was coming over and studying that when they were trying, they were in their last...
I said, and what has the Symphony done for the president since then?
She said, well, we're doing these wonderful programs for the black children in the district.
I said, yes, they're showing us a lot of gratitude, aren't they?
27% of them voted for it.
No, but beyond that, not just the blacks.
The whites in this council, the whites in this town, we didn't have the whites in Washington, D.C. You see my point?
What you really had there, and the chairman of the Symphony was from Washington.
Now maybe the chairman of the Philadelphia Symphony.
I don't know.
But I do know this.
I do know that harmony is for us.
Durati may have been for you, too.
Durati, I don't know.
Clyburn's going to play the Greek concerto.
Is that what you want him to do?
It's a long concerto, but that's what he wants to do.
And you, you supposedly would like to agree with the chair?
Did you ask for it?
I like the pollination better.
I like things I understand.
It's been played time and time again, but he can do it better than anybody in the world.
Would you rather do the pollination?
Yeah.
Plays work.
You see, Greece basically is Scandinavian.
And there, and the Scandinavians are no damn good, insofar as the issues we're concerned about.
Both are.
And the Poles are, frankly, we're part of the new majority.
I like the Polonais that they could have.
And frankly, I also like anything, I like the Tchaikovsky piano orchestras.
Well, but they're doing the Tchaikovsky, you know, the 1812 for the finale.
So you've got a Tchaikovsky.
That Tchaikovsky?
Yeah.
Not the, not, there are two Tchaikovskys.
But go ahead.
I would personally prefer the Polonais if you could do it.
But, uh, but Greed's all right.
Greed is like Mozart.
It's, frankly, it's for the fashionable kind of people that sit around quietly and don't understand it and act as if they did.
I play with Greed, and Mozart, oh, and don't like either.
That's the people who really can't.
They're going to force you to death.
Beethoven, you won't be there for that, don't you?
Beethoven.
Beethoven, that's all right.
At least it's got character.
I mean, when I was in Paris, they had, uh, they had, uh, always had Mozart.
That, uh, that whole, uh, band.
What Ormandy wants to do in the opening of the second half is he wants to do a medley of American music.
Not symphony music, basically.
It'll be America the Beautiful and some things like that with the symphony orchestra, especially.
And they had that atrocious goddamn thing, you know, with those woodwinds and that crazy music.
What did you think of that?
I thought it was awful, but I thought it was unbelievable.
And I hope they'll play This Is My Country or something.
Well, the 1812 overture was terrific.
I know it is.
They're doing that with the Valley War Choir.
Oh, boy, it's a good thing.
The bombs, the cannons going.
Now, the one thing about Victory at Sea that concerns me.
He's not doing Victory at Sea.
Oh, I thought you said they were.
That Sea was talking about it.
As of now, he's not.
He doesn't need Victory at Sea.
I don't think it's, frankly, the only thing I like in Victory at Sea, which I think is the well-known march.
That may be reminding too much of rural work, too.
Another thing that would be a quater note, leave a quater to feel strongly about the grief and it's fine.
I guess, I think the fall of the 90s is something that would take people right off.
I'm not sure he does.
I have a feeling that what he's doing is, you know, there are all these myths.
About what you like.
About what you like.
You know, we find stewards that say the president won't drink anything with maple out there.
Think about that.
Is that right?
Oh, I suppose.
There's myths all over about what you will do and what you won't do.
You can't drink or eat or blow some.
But you can't wait.
My life ain't there.
I used to like honey.
I think I'm going to break up because of danger.
No man good.
I think I'm going to kill myself.
I'm going to kill myself.
I'm going to kill myself.
I'm going to kill myself.
Why don't you put on a disguise and slip into the van and buy me four or five boxes of Avada Kedavra?
Do you hear me?
Where can you get a man, you know?
Yes, come on in.
Disguise, you get a disguise.
We can send you on a small boat.
So there can be, so you can bring me nothing.
I don't know.
I never come back.
I'm not so sure they owe you a house.
Well, instead they look for me before I start working for you.
They look for me.
I pass by for two months.
I watch the spectrum without a good sense to be around.
If they come in here, they come in here or not.
to be sure that they're... We won't get in any argument with Armandine, but Armandine, as a matter of fact, I think I'll call Armandine this time because he mentioned Iran.
He was in Annenberg's New Year's Eve party and mentioned Iran that, you know, he was a little...
He'd gotten several different inputs as to what the president wanted, didn't want, and all that.
He just, he wanted to do whatever he wanted, but he didn't know what it was.
Well, tell him that generally speaking that I like exciting music.
I don't mind a little modern stuff, but I like music.
Well, they're doing an Eric Copeland for the opening thing, and he won't be there, and that'll take care of it.
It's not modern, but it's that type of music.
As much as I'll go for the moderns, again, Grand Canyon Suite, I think it's not bad.
At least I understand that.
Copeland, I don't like, but he's a great composer, and I understand.
That much up on it depends on the name.
As a matter of fact, my favorite record is still the Liszt preludes, but I understand Dorotty said that Hedberg used to hear those.
He played them before he went into battle.
You sure?
That's Dorotty's idea.
The point is, did he play, he wrote a lot of preludes, did he play that, or did he just play Liszt?
Do we, do we, Hedberg also liked Beethoven.
Whatever, he ruled out a composer after Stalin, and Stalin must have liked Tchaikovsky, right?
Don't get into the Liz Prelue thing.
Somebody says, well, Hitler said that.
No, it was just a thing of the Liz Prelue that he played.
It was sort of his war music.
I used to use Wagner for his, what's her name?
Here it is.
It's great.
It's an uplift.
that you can find.
And as a matter of fact, I had one time, we were doing a speech, and you were not going to hear, and you were singing the right thing.
And Nell Yates did the copy.
I mean, you can't remember who did the copy, but I'm not sure.
It was about a year or so ago.
You were in California.
You were in California.
And I, and, uh, I gave her the record of this person I was looking for the other night.
And I couldn't find it anything.
And, uh, I, so I said to, uh, to, uh, to mention to Tricia, so Tricia went out and bought it.
So I have, I have it back now.
I'm hiding it because it's Hitler's supposed to have left it.
It's really something.
I mean, I mean, it's just, I mean, it's a perfect guy to show a mind like it by your mouth of time.
I went to the Chinese.
It was very much the same type, totally different, but the same type of show as the one we saw in Shanghai.
It's a good, they're superb.
They really are.
They did.
Bill Rogers opened it with a little talk and they put on a good show and it was a good show.
It was a good evening.
Getting back to this whole business, though, on this symphony thing and the rest, in Washington, D.C., this is where I remember Julia a little, too.
We have broken our tails for this district.
She's had these black kids in, and when he uses Sequoia, the black kids from Washington get to go, and all that sort of thing.
Now, God, that's enough of that.
Now I'm going to start doing it for the country.
I don't think Washington is left out.
But, gee, God's why they have a circus.
That damn circus, it costs a lot of money.
And it doesn't even get a record on the Washington Post, usually.
We have to make a foundation to bring in children from New York.
From places where they're not.
Philadelphia.
Philadelphia.
New York City.
They don't always have to.
It's not black, but there are four Polish kids, there are four attacking kids, there are four other kids.
Peter Renner knows the kind of people that we have.
Sure, and they're only 10% black, and they get about 100% treatment.
Well, they should get more than the 10%, because basically they have that insurance.
But I tell them in the District of Columbia that I feel so strongly about that profession, and how are we doing?
Would you agree?
Oh, I sure do.
Oh, sir.
That's why I pretended that I didn't...
But I told you there was, you know, some... Oh, sir.
...stir on that that's inevitable, but anything you do like, you're not getting off.
Well, everybody has their stir, but I mention the fact that I don't care that I...
from the Georgetown cocktail set.
That doesn't mean I don't have friends in there.
I like Bill Watts, but I don't like the kind of people he likes, you see, because I know what they like.
They're no goddamn good.
I mean, you guys just give me, to me, a truly shocking, Pete Peterson and Henry Kissinger have been to Tom Braden's Sunday night summers at least a half a dozen times.
I heard that Henry had lunch with Tom Braden's wife about three times a week over at San Francisco.
which I think ought to be stopped.
Well, is he still seeing his wife?
Brayden.
John Brayden, is that who you're talking about?
Well, she's, you know, she's rocked.
Well, rocked, sorry, they're in business.
Yeah.
And I'm sure that's how Henry met her, but I think this public relations law is awful bad to have in business.
You've got to stop it.
Now, that's the thing.
But how do you stop something?
The other thing is that you can,
I think Earl even likes him, too, because basically he's sort of social and almost perfect and doesn't get corrupted by them.
But I know that they used to like him.
He doesn't anymore.
Well, he's kind of fed up with it.
Well, I know, I know.
But you know that all the fellows have got to have parties to go to because their wives have got to go to them.
That's the problem.
And they are elegant.
You're invited for eating.
and you ride in a new blacktop and you sit around trying to drink like most people do and they sit around they talk about things everybody's delighted somebody laughs up or actually they make little jokes and they sit down and they turn to the right and they turn to the left and turn to the right and turn to the left and everybody admires the wine and admires the food and admires the chef and if you look at the waiters they're all the same of course because they all move from party to party to party it's the same you look at the educators
The usual custom is that the men separate and have their cigars.
When the women go in, it equals a little bit more.
You sit with the men and talk ponderously with whoever gets to honor.
Usually the check would be in.
When I was vice president, I was always the guy
the ladies again, sit by them, giggle a bit, and at about 10.45 or 11 o'clock, the guest of honor gets up and says, well, have a wonderful evening, and goodbye, dear, and we'll see you next week, and off you go.
Now, that is a Georgian on there.
I have been to a... Over and over again.
Precisely, I will describe it this way.
The Georgian
Believe me, back in the day, at least the novel that I went to at the early stages, and I haven't been to any in the last few years, but they drank far less than they drank in Los Angeles.
Well, the reason is because it's a much more rigid routine.
In California, you were invited for eight, and you had a row of 32 dollars.
In California, the ground parties.
That's right.
You were invited for seven o'clock.
You're lucky if you eat by 9, 30, or 10, and everybody is drunk.
And sometimes 11.
I mean, I know.
And they ain't very sick.
And they don't drink.
And the other thing.
Nevertheless, it's nice to say they drink too much.
I think it kills them.
Well, some of them do.
They are incestuous, they do not love the country.
They hate America, they hate themselves.
And by God, our people have got to stay away from those people.
Basically, they hate themselves and they take it out on the country.
Well, the way for our people to stay away, there's a vacuum.
It's too good to fill the vacuum with our own people.
We were talking, for example, Rose.
We should have.
You, well, we, they think so.
I've talked a lot about this.
You can have a party.
You can go to the guest room club.
Use Blair House.
It's available for us.
Taylor House.
So you have Taylor House.
Very good.
Blair House.
Move them around there.
parties we ever saw and made them fun.
And uh, Evan Martin and Enso Hart parties would be better than theirs.
People rose happy to go to parties.
20 years ago.
Well, you can't go into a party and have fun.
You go in and... Well, it's like if I never go to a party.
But I think our parties do have that chance that I don't.
Otherwise, I'd just sit at home and I'd get home at 7 or 8 o'clock at night.
The kids are raised in hell and they say, what the hell's the matter with this?
And then they say, how did things go today?
And you say, I can't tell you.
That's right.
And the other thing, of course, the other thing is that there are some night parties given us as bedriders.
Most Republicans, unlike the Jones family, do not invite the reporters to report on the party because they want their guests to enjoy the party.
Well, there's another thing I was thinking about following.
You know, there is in Washington...
The people I think of immediately are Jan and Dan Evans.
Dan, Jan and Dan Evans, who Joe met somewhere.
The Brundages.
They're Republicans.
They are people.
What was the doctor's name?
Meg Peach.
The doctor Brundage.
No, Percy Brundage, who was in the left.
His wife are older, and they're very nice.
Yeah, of course, he was right.
He was right for the bucket.
There's some young ones that are, they've been Republicans all their lives,
They're a pervert movement.
The Washington aristocracy, and Jan Evans, her maternal family, is very... Well, let me suggest something.
If these are the problems, what we should recall is that the administration... Well, not the U.S.A. here, but the U.S.A. here.
Some of us all agree there on what we have got to do to save them.
It's not a problem we've got, frankly, with our own people with us.
Because I couldn't think of the problem with that.
Henry, of course, is the big star, but others are stars.
Henry is a star already.
Now, the thing is, I'm talking about the deal with the press.
When you tell them, no, look, you can't talk to the Washington Post, you've got to get other people to talk to.
Or otherwise, they can't get it out now with regard to parties.
a racist party, you gotta have something on your list.
So the thing to do is see that our people attend, are invited to, and that they attend the parties given by the old Washington Center.
I'll bet you out of this, we've got a lot of purposeful buyers, probably, on that road system.
Well, they're rich.
They get entertained.
They probably have a good party.
You know what I mean?
Go around and you can, it's a funny thing.
Well, yeah, excuse me.
We do have to, on the announcement, personnel announcement today, there's a question of Robert Dixon for Assistant Attorney General Mike McKevitt.
That's for Legal Counsel Mike McKevitt for Legislation.
Well, then wasn't that the Olympics thing that took the whole thing down?
That's right.
One little issue.
We carried the damn state by 60%.
That's a bad issue.
Well, I stayed out of all the local issues once you arrived.
Great.
What was that thing last night?
Well, a court ballot called me, and you know, he was whining an awful lot.
He was crying about things.
He said he wasn't going to make, let's just make him bitter.
He didn't ask for any kind of a favor.
We're going to offer him a message.
Well, I'm glad to hear that.
He didn't ask, he was asking me for someone's address, but he didn't ask through me.
Yeah, plan to show up.
His wife is an American woman.
Anyway, I want to agree with Jack.
I like the White House.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
It's a single president.
Those people aren't going to go back to Waterloo Island.
Good God, he can't go back there and lord it over anymore.
It's interesting, one of the guys in Colson's operation that handled some of the departmental spokesman programming and stuff went back to his PR business in Utah.
But she said he had to do it.
He couldn't stay here.
He's come back there in three weeks, I think it is now or something.
He wrote, he said, if there's anything open, I'm ready to come back.
And he says, you can't go back to Utah.
This is Des Barker.
Let me say, Barker was a very good man.
I saw him a couple of days ago.
But I was going to say, you tend to go back to Los Angeles.
It's very difficult.
It's very difficult.
We found a road that can't even go back to New York.
Do you remember the first time?
Do you remember trying to live in that farm?
And they were the nicest people in the farm.
They were the nicest people, Tom.
But it was tough.
It was tough.
Do you remember when the calls we'd have on Pound Dewey would call to make the arrangements for the damn golf games?
And all these exacts.
They'd get 20 minutes in the bowl, and they'd go, who's going to pick up them when all the rest of the people stayed in the world?
Taking that enormous energy.
About a day ago, remember, Rose?
Well, we're all used to working so much harder than they do.
I don't know if it's working.
Yeah, it is.
Oh, you're right.
You're right.
That's a different track.
You're geared at a totally different gear ratio.
You're just not completely different.
And it's a big love of people.
I mean, gosh, if you got the reality, I mean, those guys, Rose couldn't have been nicer.
No, they were excellent.
They still are whenever you get at them.
That's why I went to buy the firm that day.
Rose, you know something?
No.
It really is funny.
But really, the homiest girl in the office that always had out there is the...
Reception?
Yeah.
She's still here.
Natalie Swapley?
Natalie Swapley.
And, you know, she's got another personality.
Not only homily, she was a very poor receptionist because she didn't like people.
She despises people.
She also, she has something wrong with her eyes.
She has a little cross-eyed.
And she's not...
But here, Alexander and all those guys are now 100-man office.
This is the one that people see, and they haven't got the sense to put one girl out there that's good-looking, or at least with a good personality.
It's the personality that isn't a good-looker so much.
We had one, for example, that was very good at...
She did very well in that, Betty McVeigh.
Betty McVeigh was no, there was no, wouldn't be winning a beauty prize.
She was a nice little girl.
But what made Betty attractive to people was that she, her personality.
And Lil' Renee was the same way.
The Lil' Renee was just a knockout.
Oh, she was a hammer.
She's married, but at the same time did volunteer work all through the campaign.
Is that her name, Dottie?
Dorothy Cox, back in the old days, Dorothy Cox was a great woman.
She wouldn't win a beauty parlor, that's for sure.
But she had two followers who were good.
She had a great telephone voice, and she had great patience.
And also, people would come in and she'd make them think that they were the most important people in the world.
Rose has done this for years too, but the point is, it's damn hard, but the head for that firm
Remember, Rosemary used to talk about it, and I said, why in the hell can't we get somebody better than an officer?
Now, we're lucky, for example, out here.
The very best use of a Shelby is to have her right off there where she is.
Not because she happens to be, but because she likes the people.
She likes people.
I mean, most of us are good.
And she's slow, but she's not good to have in an office.
No.
but she is she talks to people see you can't have it's almost impossible by the receptionist type like dorothy cox couldn't get out but but you have to get people in their right category because the person who is being driven to take something that cannot take time to talk to john doe
you know that i really feel uh mentioned to me last night he told me that he made a couple of calls for her and i told this girl to come see you it's the little one uh gary she's a beautiful and uh did she come see you she wrote me a note she's offered to label it she's coming in she wants to go well she really doesn't know what gary wants to do
She has her herb to go to New York.
It'll kill her.
Bea called and made an appointment to two banks.
The guy had a nice friend with the herb and said, well, I'll be glad to see her.
He knows the name of Bea, the herbic bank.
And he said, Lee, of course, I just want you to know that one of our top secretaries has stabbed four times coming to work, going home from work last night.
He says this is a rough count.
Well, let me tell you, though, it's not really much worse than here.
And for a year and a half, let me tell you, this is a terrible time for a young girl.
Well, I told her that, but what I suggest, especially when you have... Rose, what I hear, is a very nice image of Los Angeles.
And she was there in San Francisco at one point.
Now, she'd go somewhere would be good.
But Rose, New York today...
It is.
It is, but there's more tech for a young girl in here.
This town has run so much on protocol that a young girl here can't get in.
There's so doggone unclear to this town.
There's a perfectly good place like that.
You've got a Chicago where you've got a hell of a lot of people.
You've got a lot of people.
You know, the best town.
Good people.
The best town in America is Chicago.
I'll tell you if you're going to go there, David, you know, Ed David, when he's leaving, he said, I said, where are you going to live in Chicago?
He said, I said, you're going to live in a good town.
Chicago's a lot.
Chicago basically is a masculine town.
It's not basically a homosexual town.
We've got to face the fact that Washington is... And New York, of course.
And it, of course, is correcting San Francisco roads.
It's correcting the breaks of Los Angeles.
Because the public lives in Pasadena and Franklin.
Los Angeles is so competitive.
Another quick thing.
poor terrier run into in New York that most girls do who are as pretty as she is.
There are too many of those men who live in Connecticut and those places who have apartments in town.
They let on they're single.
And they think these girls are lying and, you know, then... You don't give anything to them if they're single?
Oh, sure.
There's that kind of stuff in every city, but I don't know.
If I were going to take a city for someone like her, I would sure take Chicago.
Well, it depends on the job.
That little Tara, of course, who got mugged here, went back up to New York, but that's her home.
But, no, she's happy there because she's been in the U.N.
I don't know that she'd be happy there.
I think George Bush would be great, but I don't...
I'd be very, very sure that the U.N. stands to be talking around Iowa.
good I'm all for that
No, he put all his people in.
Well, they were snakes.
And that's, every time we went up there, you could tell that I meant those people shared good.
They were against this from Steve Lynch.
And I'm just not going to have it anymore.
We can get at it.
And we can't do anything about the U.S. itself.
We can do things about our delegation.
And the people up there that are in the U.N. staff are damn well going to be loyal, or they're going to be sent out to Afghanistan.
That's the way to handle it.
Okay.
Well, I'll talk to Terry.
I mean,
She's been here, I haven't realized, four years now, almost.
The thing to do is just give her some time.
My own thing is she wants to get out of Washington, and she probably should, because this is a lousy town for a girl, you know, a young girl, for too long.
I give the hell to Chicago.
That's the best place.
Chicago.
From where she came, actually.
Or L.A. Los Angeles is where they came from.
You know, some other places are good.
Atlanta's good.
But that doesn't count.
I'll talk to her, because she wrote a cute little note.
She's a nice girl.
She's a nice girl, and she's very capable.
I can see her gut.
She's a very capable, very loyal woman.
It's nice.
I'm just thinking all the words.
I don't quite understand them.
She, and it's not like, I made this point to her.
She said that she wanted to do executive.
Well, she didn't mean, she just knows a high group of ideas.
You know, she's got a teacher's program.
She taught for one year.
I didn't know this was going to end.
And they, she said she was trying to think now that at 26, you know, I said, I really got to think about how to build my life.
I said, at the end.
And I said, you're 26.
I said, don't underestimate how important being a top secretary is.
I said, being a top secretary to a top man is a greater challenge to a girl than being a so-called executive.
When I started the business, my whole objective was to go to work as an assistant to a guy.
Rather than to be a middle level guy somewhere down below.
For example, I just thought of our
people will just come and see her, you know.
And that's an important job.
Senator Berger ought to recognize it.
That's an important job.
I think the girl who sits out there is more important there than in here.
You know the kind of people who have more goals than the rest of us.
They're lonely.
They just want to talk to somebody.
That was my thing.
The advertising agency offices, you know, they stay with your son.
That's the low part.
I don't care if she can't type or can't read, because she's out there and can be nice to people.
I make a good impression, and when media representatives come in or clients come in or salesmen come in, she'll sit there and chat with them.
That's the best investment you can make.
The other thing is, everybody runs a little late in every office, and so somebody's got to sit and talk to her.
The other thing, the...
In fact, I would, in a table of organization law firm, I would put that at the same level as the top secretaries.
The receptionist sitting out there.
Wouldn't you?
I think they're so important because you're most important client to come in.
You know somebody else that's good fortune?
And the people was kind of running.
If you know the 400 people, for example, go through that room every time they're coming in.
I used to go in.
You know, you sit there and you see this terribly, you know, a wrestling person in there.
We always say good morning, good morning.
But if you see somebody who gives you a little lift, my God, it makes a difference.
You're going at a terrible place.
You can't really, that's what makes it so important.
I can tell you something.
That guy just makes a hell of a difference in how you start your day.
It depends on where she wants to go.
That's why here we'll be getting the damn policeman off the desk out here, so when I come in the morning, the policeman's still up there.
Yeah.
And, you know, you come in, there's this slob sitting at the desk, and you kind of say good morning, and he kind of... You realize what we've done to that out-of-bed reception room is one of the best things we've done.
You have a policeman sitting there, and you have the secret service lounging in there, and the press...
That room is just beautiful now.
It looks like the White House.
It was disgraceful.
It was not disgraceful.
They never used it.
It came in the basement, which was even worse because you had all the white messengers running around down there smoking cigars and stumbling.
You had to climb over.
the problem of government.
But the messengers, the people that we have on that sort of thing, I think you should solve them for them if you could.
Because they are not a very, frankly they don't show enough respect.
They show very little respect when I go through there.
I walked through the EOB and the rest of them there slugging and slugging me.
They resent everybody.
The blacks, you see, except for the White House Span who basically are like the old retainers.
Oh, they're so...
But the white is.
It's like a group piece.
Well, like a group for the dinner last night.
They were all proud.
They were so proud.
They had their picture taken and the rest.
But we've got a lot around here.
I imagine these kids have been to school and the rest and probably resent all of us.
I just don't like it.
I don't like the feeling.
You go to restaurants here, you've got the parking people.
They're all black.
Yeah, we know that.
Everything is black everywhere you go, and it's all, it's all, you know, they're rude to you.
They're very rude.
Yeah, they resent you.
Did you see what happened in the orange?
Yeah.
You know what that was?
That was a black person.
That was a black person trying to kill a white person.
Three blacks.
We're shooting up white people.
And that one young couple, I think that's what it says, and that Virginia guy who just got through all that, he was getting killed by some bum.
He and his wife.
Well, whites kill blacks too, so it's bad.
Oh, sure they do.
Not for that, I don't think in that study.
Well, no, it was a revolution, I said.
I mean, that's what they're, they're something, you know, they're, it's good.
How are the people going to get rid of some white monkeys?
And not one civil liberties union person has talked about the fact that whites are having the civil liberties to file it by being shot at.
If that had been white, no white should have been to a black crowd.
The price they would have been down here for a year.
I know these people will tell you that it was brutal for the police to run in and just smash that place with bullets and try to kill a guy.
They got it on, but they got it when they killed one.
They just got one?
Maybe there was only one.
But how could they hear somebody say power to the people after he'd been riddled with bullets?
They also found that the bullets checked with the bullets that killed somebody a couple weeks ago.
They killed colored police a couple weeks ago.
They're just against all authority.
What particular color?
They don't like telling people to be hot.
Well, anyway, I would like on this social thing.
And, Rose, you can think about the Julie operation.
You can handle it better than I. Oh, let's talk about another thing.
One thing.
I told Julie that Art, my view, was very strong that they should keep coming on.
There's no way Julie can do that job.
And Julie said that Pat had turned around on him again.
Be sure, when you're talking to Julie, the opportunity gets saved.
Julie, it won't work that way.
to get her out fast.
Good.
Here?
No, sir, over at the USIA.
Good, good.
How about the billboard, which she used to do?
I'd like to see Byers, or if she could do it, or somebody.
Did you check the hand door?
Yeah, there was, the people that worked with her over there said that she's very, she's pushing herself so hard that you run into a real problem.
Oh, I see.
I haven't seen her, I don't know.
I don't think she's so good, and I don't know what she looks like either.
Well, the other thing is, I really think I'd like to check the virus, if there's any possibility there at all.
Because Julie and she used to like each other so much.
Of course, it's very hard not to like Julie.
Well, it's hard not to like Mark Spivey.
And I needed a little magazine, even so, you know, trying to...
Still like Mark Spivey.
That's why we all did things for Mark.
But, you know, Julie, because she worked, she worked so hard working together.
And she's probably out of a job.
I'm sorry.
Julie's going to have to have somebody strong to help back her up, because, you know, that's... Well, somebody strong to handle her, so that she doesn't...
I don't want her in it.
That would be bad for her.
But the other thing is, when you talk to Julie, like Julie bringing those people in to stay overnight, you know, I've been pushing that for four years.
I know.
She just did.
Didn't they love it?
Oh, my word, they were so good at it.
That's why they came to the White House for a drink last night to talk, because they were so excited about spending the night in the White House.
And the Antonovs and the Lewises and Paul Keith came.
And they were just... Well, that's a problem.
You've got the space up there.
It's a problem.
Because it's the third floor.
And what is there to spend the night in the White House?
The third floor.
And when we went, Julie, you see, there's all those bedrooms, right?
But when we go over to the third floor, Solaria...
so that i'd like the people around here
be a good party giver.
Renninger would not.
Renninger doesn't want to have any parties.
I'm not so sure.
Well, if he would, it'd be great.
But the point is, if I can only suggest, the key is that we've got to be sure that we make, it's just like using surrogates on the Minnetonka field.
We've got to have our people available for those parties.
And as you say, Henry's the star, and that's the biggest problem also, because he goes to the
He still has to be available.
So the one...
I just want to say that the timeline probably, you know, is coming down for their big thing.
And I think, Bob, I don't think it'd be just totally, they should track down totally everybody else.
I think one should go.
But under no circumstances should Henry go.
You get the point?
Maybe early on is the best time to go.
See?
But one should go.
Jacks like to use their own as much as possible because he's smart enough not to be taken in by those jackasses.
And some of our other people are smart enough.
And they invite everybody.
They all try out the trained dogs.
That's right.
And they treat you real nice.
They give you a drink of food and make you sleep.
And prove to their others.
I'd like to tell Pope Louis that if they ever would like to have a party for their advertisers, he's never asked us for one.
I think we ought to go for Pope Louis' advertisers, correct?
Right.
Because they don't have some advertisers, do they, I don't think.
Or should they find us?
I mean, they have a lot.
That would be great.
That would be very good.
That would have nothing to do for Pope.
In fact, when Julie comes, she's going to have a party out of your house.
Also, Julie can't frankly entertain in the White House.
I'd be totally delighted, you know, just so I didn't have to be there.
And that would be a hell of a thing.
That's where she'd get the young people in.
We've got a lot of young people in the administration, really.
Yeah, but don't, don't run, that's good, not on administration people, but don't run down that
the Julie doing it in her own house in some ways has some appeal to doing it in the White House.
I agree.
More people will get into the White House than will get into Julie's house.
Good point.
So in a way, that's a more exclusive thing to be invited to than to the White House.
I think there is one thing we will do to help her, which is really
The White House, she should be on the staff here.
We have a representation fund that we can, it's perfectly proper when she does business entertainment that we pay for it out of that fund.
And also the mess stewards and other people around here work, you know, moonlighting as skaters and you pay them.
But it's a very reasonable fee that you pay them.
you can get people that have the security clearance.
See, they're all cleared.
You don't have to worry about any security clearance.
That's what they do.
Well, you talked about all these things at the time.
It's a time that evolves.
And you won't have to push her to do events.
She'll be pushing us.
But we're going to get Pat out of that syndrome where she does, of course, the future for our lives and everybody else when they come.
I think we need to get Pat out into the country more, because that's where she gets her coverage, that's where the news is.
We're not going to do coverage in Washington.
The only reason for her doing anything here is seeing people who come here from someplace else, but not from Washington, who otherwise you or someone else... That's right, and you do get coverage back in there on time.
I'll tell you, when you go to the
The best thing we've done for her for a long time was to get her to that rose parade.
Because she got a night bag on, she was well received, and she sure was.
And I'll tell you, she looked lovely.
Well, it was good for us.
Good for the administration.
Looked good.
And she would like, her last night's talk, her comment that, to why.
instead of being football widows and so forth, that they should enjoy the game with their husband.
And then when you hesitate, a lot of times you take calls so that she can tell you in on what's going on.
I mean, this was very bright.
Whether you do these things or not, it doesn't matter.
You might not say that.
It's a very good louder.
And Julie's going to be just great.
She sure will.
You're going to have to get around one other person all the time.
Who is he?
Yeah, I know.
It's going to be difficult.
Julie recognizes him.
I know Julie does.
She says her mother likes Lucy very much.
And so I think Lucy would like to...
I don't think Lucy's going to try and outmaneuver Julie for very long.
She better damn only try.
She's going to attack this Julie so much smarter than Lucy did.
I know, but don't underestimate Lucy.
Lucy isn't so much smart, but she is as tenacious as an alley cat.
She is really tenacious.
We need that little smile of hers.
She's a real brawler.
She says yes, and then you never know, at least I've never found out I was in a fight with Lucy until later.
She doesn't argue about anything.
That's where you've got your two frecks.
I know.
It was a big thing to do.
Because I can all manage the questions.
Like, if somebody's on the list, that's, oh, yes, you're on the list.
But if there's a question as to whether they can bring somebody else, it gets referred back to me.
There's no doubt.
Is that right?
But... Let me say, Rose, one thing that I've talked a lot about, too, I think this is
between him and Lucy and whoever's over there on the other side.
Steve is very hard not to get along with Steve.
He's tough.
But you know, instead of having to push the bottle over somebody like that, I've told him we want to cut their head.
Let Steve do it.
Steve is totally capable of doing these things.
You know?
You mean they go to Steve's house instead of, say, to...
Dave will be handling that long-range schedule.
Steve is handling that.
But the day-to-day business, for example, Parker will handle the irrigation thing and so forth.
When will the president arrive?
What time will you go down?
I can't see implementation.
Will they not shake hands?
That sort of thing.
Believe me, there is so much damn argument that goes on here and there.
It's because part of the reason is that, frankly, Connie never could get to Pat.
And so then Pat would feel that somebody here was pushing her out.
And I'm trying to just, we're begging her.
And I think Julie and Steve, they can have a check-off sheet and just, and it can be, he can have all those.
There's one other thing with regard to press coverage.
Pat likes Sarah.
So that's, she respects him.
So that's good.
The other thing,
I don't think a camera happens where she doesn't, although many times Sigler has been advised to do that.
But Sigler over here, Steve on the other side, I think you've got a very good team.
What do you think?
I'm referring now to the fact that the calls, just the day-to-day operations, and when I am participating in an event like that, as to what we do, where we stand,
we've sent them over, then Lucy, instead of playing it that way, will go ahead and say, she'll go to Pat and say, well, Alan Butterfield says that you have to stand there, or Larry, he's decided that you've got to do this.
I've gone over.
I've gone over.
Sometimes I just can't take this kind of heat at night.
The panel sold me about 6 o'clock and said, she says, well, Alex Butterfield called and said that this and that and the other end was to be done.
Well, actually, I had told Alex.
I had told him.
I think that what we want to do now is to work it more subtly.
I'll be trying to give him a hand and say, gee, what time did you get there?
That's, you know, all that sort of thing.
Steve is talking to Rose.
Rose knows... See, my mind needs to keep the hell away from me.
First of all, keep it away from me.
I think Steve should talk to Rose and to Julie.
And then between the three of them, where the press is involved, bring Ziegler in.
And then get all that stuff figured away in that area.
Don't you think so?
feels that you've got to shake hands, but the president strongly feels on this one we ought to not shake hands.
Can we work out a way to avoid doing it?
Whatever the things are, we want to have this kind of alliance.
We want to have this kind of entertainment.
Now, for each occasion, they should, between Steve and Julie, and I'm glad to have them come in, but if they have a checkoff list and bid it done, then there won't be any, I don't think, what I was thinking, what I was thinking was about the president, so we have to,
so that you could sit down.
I think you really need a group of Steve, Julie, and yourself to just sit down and go over some of those items, and that'll, I think it'll wash out this much better.
I mean, it's like these dinners, as to, even where people sit, that's a hell of a job.
I decided many of those lists myself.
See, Julie, on her own, will come up with a lot of,
A lot better thinking on that.
Lucy doesn't, and it's no fault of hers.
There's no way for her to know who I am.
There's no way for a stranger to know.
She may not know, for example.
I don't want to sit by Mrs. Peterson.
Julie would understand it.
And I think that's good to change around, because it's terribly boring for you to have the same people.
Well, Julie should do the same thing for her mother.
Her mother should never be put by men who are going to make her do that for herself.
Marry her.
She should be put by men who are going to make it easier for that and interesting.
One of the best things that's done, Rose, is that list you've prepared, you know, and the big title of people here that you ought to be paying attention to.
And that goes back to what you should do.
the thing i think is going to happen all the way in the future is that with the dinner take the heat that uh that's what that'll be the first water we'll have we'll have dinner then i have decided that you know i've gone back and forth on this and whether at the dinner we should shake hands with the everyday guests or not my deal is it should cancel because i have found we bomb out every time we try to go in
and and talk to a few guests and put it this way if we had a if we had a mrs robert lowe bacon at her best or an alice longworth at her best over there is the most that you could do it but we have no man it's worth the man this the military people are very stiff and totally inadequate the protocol people don't know how to do it in other words the only people that i really know that know how to do it in the world are the british and
They make it feel as if that's the way it ought to be.
The Germans did it all.
Well, the Germans, yeah, let's see there.
The Germans of the British tradition, that Chancellor was an alien sinner.
So I just think that we have a tough deal to deliver, and I frankly think, too, that it's easier on me and Pat, it's frankly easier on me and Pat, to go in, take the guests in, and then have the military people try to find somebody to talk to the guests, and then we'll walk out and shake hands with the other guests.
Well, I think that's a better use of your time.
I agree with you.
Yeah, because if you do the other thing, you're only going to make a few people, and another you do this, you make a lot of people, and another thing grows, that means you're going to upgrade.
I was going to say, if you upgrade, you have to do it again.
But if I don't shake their hands, for example, one time they did shake hands, and I found out to my utter dismay later, there were two congressmen on the avenue that guessed us, and I was phrased,
Well, if anything, Congressman will call them back, you see, if they can count on that.
But it's really a better use of time, Bob.
Don't you agree?
Don't you think so, Rose?
Yes.
And also, it's better with Pat.
We'll go in, we'll briefly say it, and then we leave the guest room on her.
We don't have the guest room on her to shake hands with.
I don't think that's necessary.
You think like Mrs. Meyer.
Well, of course, it means a lot to people.
It means a lot to people.
And frankly, they'd probably rather shake hands and get caught by one other person.
I wonder.
I wonder.
I think they would.
It's easier.
It's easier.
Would you... Let's take... Take your own strength.
Would you rather...
The reason is that I...
The reason is that I basically...
I'm a social person.
I don't like to sit around and chit-chat.
Most of those other people are... Yeah, too.
You know... Mostly, they have to be... Well, I'm confident.
You're confident.
I'm confident.
He does not have that social...
He probably would rather stand around and chat with people.
He's a very reserved person.
But he'd also like to meet everybody and shake hands.
I really think it's better for him to shake hands.
And it's such a, you know...
Besides that, I was worried about what they'd like.
That's four people there.
Well, that doesn't take too long.
They go pretty fast.
They absolutely have to go pretty fast.
Because they're lined up.
The one thing that we are good at is what we've got to tell them to work out.
The dinners always are running longer.
we expect we're kicking it and stabbing the tail to get it served but it isn't just that it's the fact that some of these damn people talk too long the toasts not money but theirs
where I was not participating.
I want to go watch one where I'm not again.
But they wait too goddamn long before they start.
For instance, everybody's seated, and then they wait another five minutes before they take the service plate out and put the dinner plate on and start serving the first quarter.
Yeah.
They wait until everybody has taken every marshal of food into space.
And they should start taking those plates off and hurrying people.
You don't know how to have the dinners other places.
as I do, when you sit down at the table always, you learn damn fast.
If you have a course that you want to eat, you don't talk to anybody, eat like hell.
That's right.
Because it goes, and it goes before you know it.
That's how, a couple times you've mentioned they get back dinner, because that's it.
There are some courses that they take away really.
One of the things we've done, one of the meals we've had in all of this time,
And all of them went like zickety bang.
And every one of them, every one of those, there were three of the best we had.
I missed a part of the course simply because I didn't realize they were going to zap me away.
And the thing is, we however can't control the toast any better.
Translation, any damn Latin American, you're stuck with 20 minutes.
Not what happens then.
This is the point I was making, Russ.
Don't invite those damn petition guests so that they stay down below for his memory.
I told you, my brother Don, he should have raised it with me when he said there were some very important people here, you know, and they were campaigning too long.
See that, Don?
And I thought he did it very well.
He was a part of the White House.
Yes, and they're serving, I think they should use our top White House staff, who will not be going to the dinner.
I think two couples, probably, downstairs, plus your social security.
Yes, and mingle with them.
They give them champagne downstairs.
They have music down there for them.
They can roam around through all those rooms.
I think most people are delighted they're in the White House.
Now, of course, Don wasn't delighted because he was checked downstairs.
But Don only came to have dinner because he pushed and shoved to come.
What dinner was that?
And Don's a different type than most people.
Don, he thought some of them were bitching about you.
Well, they weren't.
Don wanted to get up there right away.
Why, were you there?
No, I wasn't there.
I've never been to a dinner thing.
How do you know he was going to care about you?
Well, because I know Don from watching him.
And from what his complaint, that people were complaining, we've never had anybody else complain.
Never.
But maybe, you see, we don't really hear.
That's the thing.
I want to be sure.
Well, we have two top staff people.
I will find them.
I've gone down there on the afternoon just to see how things are going.
Everybody is just bubbling.
They're having a great time.
Rose is right, though.
I do think that CD might establish a new rule on guests.
No...
I've laid this out very, very hard.
I said, no.
For example, I don't understand.
I'm going to move Keith up around, but she's going to go around.
I'm going to go up to him later.
He said, well, who should go?
I said, if he has another cabin officer with him, you'll have to have his office with another cabin officer.
But if he has, for example, his staffers there, two or three staffers, which he has every right to have them.
I'm delighted to have them.
You do not have to have our people.
You don't have to have Henry's second, third, and fourth people.
And you don't have to have the State Department's second, third, and fourth people because the British have a second, third, and fourth.
I'm going to stumble that crap.
In other words, we have had this business that the number of foreign gas must be
only one on our whole band business you always ought to have one for the nfc he doesn't have to be happy he has a show he hasn't shown us
But what I'm saying...
I think we ought to say that, hey, let's go down the river and that bunch has come, rather than Sonnenfeld.
Because every day they push for Sonnenfeld.
No, it's because they're trying to get rid of Sonnenfeld.
They're just going to change the move.
Trying to.
We can't get anybody to take it.
It's a record phone.
Here it is.
But the point of it is that I'm not going to have the opposite number of stuff anymore.
And as far as the evidence is concerned...
Huh?
We usually haven't done pretty well.
I know, I know.
We still, I'm speaking on the state matters.
I guess, uh, at the meetings at the White House, for example, we'll do the, we'll do one or two cabinet meetings.
That's all.
Just so there's a couple there.
One or two White House meetings.
Just so there are a couple there.
But only those that they will mean something to the guests.
See what I mean?
Don't you agree with me?
I agree with you.
On the State Department thing, look,
We haven't really had very many State Department people.
Mostly we've had the Secretary, the Chief of Protocol.
Then after dinner guests we have included, now maybe you want to stop that, but we've included the country guests.
Well, yes, yes.
At that point, you're stopping the bill.
You've got the bill in the box.
I don't mind after dinner.
They do not have to be built up.
They do not have to be built up.
No more.
And we're going to stop it.
It's over.
He's been to Whitehouse.
He doesn't need to come again.
That's where he's going to be.
I'll take another one.
Another guy, his name is Kennedy, Colonel Kennedy.
But Kennedy doesn't need to come unless he's there.
You see my point?
I know.
You don't need one.
Kennedy has had the theory involved that the reason he insists on Sonnenfeld, right?
He says, well, the State Department follows that, so I've got to have Sonnenfeld, too.
No, no good.
Well, but the other thing is that I think he's wrong.
The State Department fellow who is there is usually, at the very lowest, the Assistant Secretary of State for the whole area.
And Sonnenfeld doesn't really rank that high.
He doesn't rank that high.
Operationally, he does.
He's the equivalent of that, because he is the, and he does the same thing.
He's the guy in charge of all of Europe.
So that's for us.
But the point is, he's not a part of that guy.
Now, protocol-wise, he does.
But operationally, substantively, he does.
Well, we're going to be this way if we get a start on Maury's list.
But his line of reasoning is absurd.
That's like saying that if you have an assistant secretary of commerce, that you have to have a guy from the OMB who is the equivalent of an assistant secretary of commerce.
That's right.
to the law since at all.
Yeah.
Well, and then they, Marty told me he was going to send me a list, an alphabetical list, not alphabetical, the other one, ranking, and I've been waiting for that search quite a while.
Call him, would you?
I'm going to call him.
He would put a little heat on him.
I want to hand it on to some others to give you, he's given me a list, but I consider it confidential at this time because I've educated him on some money and so forth.
But I think he should give you a list.
What he gave you wasn't complete anyway.
He said he wanted to get it worked out.
A, B, C, D, E, F, that's what he has.
And a recommendation and so forth.
You just tell Maury that I raised it with you, and I'd like for him to give you everything he's given me.
Everything he's given me, plus any update.
Now let me tell you just one more thing.
two state dinners in the first year for the people of 100, 200,000, over $200,000 in one private dinner.
And he suggested doing one state dinner an evening for people of 100,000.
There are 100 people who could pay over 100,000.
That's 200 people.
If you multiply that by two, that's 400 people, 400.
If you gave all of the invitations outside of government for the 10 state dinners that we have,
You couldn't take care of even that.
And then you hold that for, he's got the 75s, the 50s.
They have Elmer in that class as well.
You know, he's in a big class.
He should be, must be.
And my point is, my point is that I added up, if we did all the ones, I think my question would have worked on this list, if I could see it.
If you gave all the benefits that they had at all, I added up, it would have been 2,200 in the digital.
Well, we'll also mark how many they've already been to, because a lot of them are the same people who have already been to five or six days.
Well, he doesn't count them.
Well, but we'll have to count them if we don't have enough days.
Well, we're going to use the evening and the minus two.
You know, I'm going to use that.
I won't plan probably, you know, we don't plan February or March.
Sometimes those are even more friends.
Sometimes we get people mixed around.
Okay.
I had to limit the state visits.
They were a total pain in the neck.
They required a lot of work on my part.
I had to see the people.
I had to make a toast.
I had to make an arrival statement.
And I had to give the, you know, all that stuff.
So we're going to, that's only to our group while they're not on the list for the spring, for the state election.
Now, in Goliath's decision, well, it's going to be, we're going to have all the Jews in, so we'll have her, it'll be a black tie then.
Yeah.
The other point that I think of is that a dinner is infinitely more expensive.
And also, it's an enormous drain on me.
I have to think about toast.
I've got to hurry around.
The tea in the White House is much easier.
And the way to do it,
And I think we can have half of those evenings in the spring.
Half of those evenings.
And I can just run the people through there.
And there's no toast.
Everybody arrives at 8.30.
I have an 8.30 on 8.30.
And the evening goes on.
Afterwards, the rather thing I would do afterwards, I would not stand there.
I'd have 300 people stand there for an hour waiting to shake hands with me.
I decided what we would do in the evenings, and then we will go in and do the so-called making.
We'll do that for a half hour.
And we're going to do that in the church service, too.
I'm not going to stand there and shake hands with all the people in the church service anymore.
Because, you know, it's just, the person's character is repetitious in some cases.
But the moment you stand in line with the preacher, I mean, frankly, most people never want to meet the preacher.
What about the service for this first administration?
I suppose on that we ought to stand and shake hands.
Or should we just start that right then?
I started then.
If it's your new administration, you must have started out right.
Get them used to it.
Because they shouldn't go through the line anyway.
Yeah, but we can get rid of this automatic church service invitation.
Everybody, yeah.
Is it automatic?
Oh, yeah.
See, you assigned divine right to church service.
Before, you had the cabinet with all the people they wanted to bring in.
And the cabinet were bringing people down in their departments that were lower than some of the people we hadn't been able to invite in.
Well, the church service will now all be by invitation.
And there's going to be any more.
There's automatics.
Great.
There's no reason why Arthur Burns is entitled to come to church every Sunday.
Is that any part of the reason?
the, uh, because we have some enormous number of campaigns that wanted to come, whether we're trying to cut them off.
Obviously, when we do, when we do, uh, you know, uh, move on from that, we hardly get well taken care of.
He's been a good soldier.
Well, you understand that.
And, and there's really no reason why Chief Justice Warren should get in.
That's right.
So, you know, you could have had him on the automatic.
He could come and bring his family or get some.
I don't think
I think there's plenty of people who have done so much for you.
We've done enough for him.
But Byrd, whenever he's willing to come, he should come, in my opinion.
If the Chief Justice of the United States comes, I think people want to see him.
Well, if you do that, then don't tell him that, though.
Don't tell him.
Just invite him to it.
I would invite him.
See, let's never be so that somebody, some stupid bunny can say, well, we have one person who's automatic.
If you make him automatic, then that has, in the past, implied that that doesn't bring anybody else that he has around him slowly.
And you don't want that.
You should control the guests.
When you invite the Chief Justice, it should be he and Mrs. Berger who are invited, not all their kids.
And we all say that.
A few of you have lost relatives.
Yeah, because then you see what was happening.
These people are paying on their social obligation by bringing people to your event rather than our being able to pay yours.
The way Bob thought that I think, and that can be supplemented, if I may say so, with regard to the contributors, will be that other people will give early interest.
Or would you agree?
Or maybe they don't want to do it.
They have to eat dinner.
They have to eat dinner.
We could have two dinners for the super people or something.
That's right.
You get to handle about 60 in Taylor.
More now.
And in Taylor you can do 60.
Because I did 60 for that party.
Because I'm betting for the...
Well, it was a buffet.
It had tables.
And that's faster than having them wait, you know.
That's what I did.
I just really let it have tables.
I think that's a little bit faster.
We had the tables.
We were all greeting.
Everybody went through the mic.
Off they come to the finals.
We had a very nice evening at the finals.
Good entertainment.
And afterwards, we didn't.
Are you single?
Otherwise, if you hold that line up, 300 of them stand in line.
It takes an hour to shake that kind of people.
That kind of people, it takes an hour.
No way you're going to avoid them.
And by then, they start to dance or something.
It goes on.
What we'll do is to move.
Have the dancers start to dance.
And we'll just move around in the blue.
I think that's better.
It makes it more informal and more like they are guests in your home.
And I just kind of go through a little bit and then walk out.
Just like, well, maybe, you know, that's the importance of it.
Parades are on parade, and everybody bows, and how are you, and nice to see you.
The only thing that's bad about it is that the more aggressive ones and the drunker ones are going to come up and clobber you.
Well, you just have to, somebody has to be with you.
It keeps you moving.
Well, Steve's pretty good at that.
You need to go like Steve, but let me take you to the military, then.
They are, they were not trained to do that.
I mean, they just, they're too stiff.
It's got to be a political man who can, I'm sorry, a military man can't go in and sit on the phone quite like our, I'd rather have a seat tied basically.
Well, whoever's going to be the chief of protocol, I don't know who that might be, or if you have any protocol.
Oh, it's the Reynolds, isn't that the way you want it?
Oh, heaven help us, no.
Why not?
You want it self-reliant, you said.
No, seriously.
But Bob, Bob, Bob had promised it to him, and I told Bob he could have it.
He's a great supporter of Bob's.
Huh?
A complete disaster.
Why?
Both of them would be in that role.
Why?
First off, I think he's part Jewish.
I think it shows.
Secondly, she's one of the most unattractive women that you could think of putting in that role.
Yeah.
And I don't want our foreign visitors to think that's what we're all like.
I like it.
They're nice people, but they want to see the protocol.
How do you know them that well?
Well, they come into my office every time I get the pleasure of entertaining them every time they come to town.
Last time they came in here to make a big pitch for this job.
Last year, I told you about that.
They came in, she came in in a sloppy pants suit, and I'm
Her hair had been washed and not rolled or combed and no makeup on.
They came to the gate.
They did not have an appointment and insisted on coming in to see me.
No, they did not be good.
I don't know if that's what we need to talk about.
Even if they do the other job we've been talking about, we don't have to go this way.
But we figure we ought to.
It was not a problem, I think.
Maybe he wanted to just break it.
Hadn't he been promised that much?
I told you he was.
I told you he was.
I can only keep it.
I think Mitch promised to do it, frankly.
Bob did.
Bob caught me in my mind's eye just before he went to California.
Bob didn't raise it directly, but by that time I hadn't seen him or he hadn't seen Rose.
So Bob said, how about Reynolds?
I said, gee, that's a great phone.
And Bob apparently had already broken the deal.
Isn't that true?
I guess so.
I don't know what the... You didn't talk to him.
I had never talked to Jim.
Then who did you talk to?
How do we know that we'd have to give you Mexico?
Mexico's an important job.
I'd give him something smaller.
Of course he wants Mexico's fire.
I wonder if we can say that's the problem.
He can't be confirmed because of his visit.
Do you think there's some little Latin American country?
Yeah, there's lots of them.
Are there?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't mean to be...
It's just that they won't be any worse than some of our other ambassadors, but... Well, that's right.
No.
That is enough.
But it's still important.
It really is.
We need a strong man in there.
It can't be Leon Harmon.
Jerry Ford lobbied me on him the other night.
Obviously true, Bob.
But Leon, we don't want to win anything either.
He'd be good.
He'd be a good ambassador.
But it's got to be a...
Here's a chance for a major contributor.
Some of our major contributors probably speak Spanish.
They did.
That's what we really ought to do.
Because I don't think we're going to save that kind of money.
He's not looking for resources.
He didn't.
I think the last time, I think it was between himself and his father and his brother, it was maybe 50.
I think this time it was 25.
That's a lot of money.
Oh, but it's not a lot of money compared to a lot of the other people.
That's a lot of money.
We have people we aren't giving money to.
I know.
And frankly, during the campaign, Jim and Rosalba were over traveling through Europe or somewhere.
No, I don't think so.
And you got like Johnny Crable, didn't you give him much either?
John Crable.
He did a lot of the job before, too.
He's always done it.
And his wife is a lot better, more attractive.
Mrs. Crable, don't give this to us.
Oh, good.
Crable is a good lady.
John Crable will work his way.
Let me tell you what I thought about it.
I thought it was a disaster.
Mainly because I think Jim is a wonderfully enthusiastic and respectful person.
He's very smart.
He's a little bit crude, too.
He's not very polished.
Well, let me tell you what it is.
He's good.
That's what it is.
You know what?
It's the Jewish business.
I don't think Reynolds admits to being Jewish.
I have a theory that the people who do not admit to it are worse than... they somehow or other have all the bad characteristics of trying to hide it.
And I'm sure that he put Finch on the spot because of the rental.
The rental.
That's right.
The rental, put on that big wedding ring that he did for Maureen.
He did the wedding ring that he did for Maureen, yeah.
That was it.
That was it.
I knew it was Maureen.
I knew it was Maureen.
And he tried to put it on.
Oh, yeah.
He's a pushy guy.
We don't even have anybody to put it on yet.
Well, I'm going to make an all-out effort.
Frank, Mark, and Corbin, I've told this.
If we don't, we have another candidate out of the stances list who looks very good, apparently, named John Lewis from Chicago.
He's the Johnson Wax family guy, who is apparently just a very big Midwestern, good-looking, but not swishy type, you know, very all-man type, very personable, very rich, white,
Why not sure about the wife?
We're checking it to be sure that he's the kind of guy who should have a good wife.
Because, I mean, you would expect him to always direct the wife.
Because the wife spends more time with the wife than the other guy and everything.
That's right.
Well, we've got to check that.
But this guy looks like, out of the financial area, the best possibility.
And he was a big contributor.
And they had talked to him about an ambassadorship.
And we're going to recommend him for a top post.
He was the guy they'd see for Germany or something like that.
Is there anybody?
This is a job.
Basically, we're asked to be somebody that is not incompatible with us.
You know what I mean?
I never have been compatible because we're not going to buddy-buddy with them, but I'm having to see these damn people and they bring them up to the old woman and all that sort of thing.
Although I think some of that's got to stop.
I mean, there's got to be somebody who's willing to work
Chiefs in all the other countries are people who work.
Our protocol chiefs turns out to be a guy that .
Can I suggest one thing?
Can I suggest one thing that I think would be extremely helpful?
I've mentioned this before, and the money is carried on.
It is shocking.
I went to Mossback, and they were here, and I kept trying to .
Well, they were right.
The ladies with their gowns and their so forth, and the jumpsuits.
all crawl out of the car and they can ruffle the rest the chief of state the foreign visitor and his wife should ride alone the chief of protocol and his wife should ride in the car behind and they can get their tails out of that car and then move up to do it but they should not force themselves into that car let me tell you on our trips abroad that night all of us were relieved
And they didn't have somebody with us, certainly.
And the Chinese, very thoughtfully, by the time we were going back from the wall, instead of having to get out right away, they suggested maybe we'd like to be alone for a while.
And they were dead right instead for an hour and a half, having to make small talk with the general.
We sat there and just relapsed, which we needed to do.
Now, the chief of protocol doesn't need to.
The other thing is that it's a terrible problem when they come, the chief of protocol and his wife coming.
I think what ought to happen is that the Bridgekeeper Protocol's wife ought to get in ahead because we try to get in there.
We've always had this problem.
This is a loss factor.
If she walked ahead of me or the wife, she's certainly the one to have to do it.
I think it's all wrong.
That's why you ought to come independently to the party and be in green guests and all that.
You ought to be working.
He's your head staff.
He is not the substitute host at that point.
That's exactly right.
They never had the white on the same fire engine as us.
I think the protocol was a working guy.
What we did with the Mossberg thing was incorrect.
We made Buzz basically a host at our same level, and he was never frankly around doing work.
That's just what it was, and that was true abroad.
You know what I mean?
He didn't do a damn thing, brother.
He was never a brother.
I think you're right.
I think the wife of the chief protocol should be here and mixing around.
Because Lucy stands out in the hall.
I'm afraid to guess that they go in.
But there are a lot of people who are coming to these dinners who do not know each other.
She should have a fixed job to see the foreign guests.
The members of the foreign party, other than the head of state, come to the dinner ahead of time.
They come into the East Room.
Now, they stand there with their thumbs in their mouth, wondering what the hell to do.
And that was the plan.
The wife of the protocol chief ought to be introducing Americans to those people.
Not only the wife of the protocol chief, but it should be her responsibility to get the wives and husbands of the State Department jackasses in their journey and have them work their way out.
Now, some of them are very good at that, that's right.
So we have to give them their orders on that.
And that, let me say, in most foreign countries, we're very badly treated that way, too.
It's not well done.
We arrive at a dinner and everybody ignores us.
And we sit there in a little cluster, you know, talking to each other, which is absurd.
And everybody, the other, the foreign people are all over here helping.
Then we work out a deal where we can just part with your protocol.
Now, the Canadians did a superb job.
We arrived at that Canadian dinner, and my God, they had a protocol office.
They had about eight protocol people working that dinner.
That's right.
They didn't go to the dinner.
They were there working.
That's right.
And they came up, and they said, hey, Coach, are you going to sit with them?
And they said, look, now I want you to meet our finance minister.
He's been anxious to talk to you about his gun insurance.
I'm saying, that's great.
But they had to work on it.
They knew what I liked to do.
It's just like an advance in a good buying rally.
department people and the others and say now here's the situation and here's your your assignments and get those military votes and now as i say they the militaries are too stiff rennan is is the only accepting right and brennan can work his way pretty well so you use brennan see right the other thing we should do is give these people your military as well
unadvanced copy of the guest list.
So that they have a chance to know, you know, really.
Well, how far ahead though?
Do the wives have to go there?
But they don't do it.
We could do it a lot better.
This is not for you to worry about.
They do a good job.
And Lucy just doesn't understand the point of this.
She doesn't drill upon it.
They truly will, and he gets it going right.
It's a little asking.
And I've noticed when we come to a dinner, they take Joe in, which is proper.
And you follow up.
That's fine.
But for Christ's sake, they don't need to decide who we're going to talk to once we get in.
Now, when you've got a lonely guest who doesn't know anybody, they should know that.
And he should take them right to someone and introduce them.
And then he should get the hell out of it.
Because you don't need this clown with his braids hanging.
Why does he stand with you always?
Sometimes they do.
Do they?
No.
Some of them on the side are superb.
They watch to see if somebody is holding it right or not.
They do exactly what they're told.
Of course.
You can never fault them on any of this.
It's us.
Because they'll do what we tell them.
They'll do what we tell them.
And they do it superbly.
They get lost.
You can't control them.
or even a jump seat leans back on either the guest's knees or on the lady's jump right leg.
Well, the problem is, that car comes back and gets out ahead of the guy.
Or the lead car is better, yeah.
So he gets out of the car and takes the protocol to the working man.
You're right, in the lead car.
He just runs and jumps in the lead car.
And he's right about ahead of them.
He's right ahead of them.
Now, if you have a chief of protocol, the Mosbacher type, who is socially not a Sam type, who doesn't see himself that way, you won't have that.
Most people of the Mosbacher social level, who are not Jewish, will not worry about being Sam type.
No, and if they decided that the other way, they'd probably be Sam type.
Right.
But they'd sell themselves to be Sam type.
The other alternative would be to have the Chief of Protocol and his wife be at the dinner.
in the East Room already, and let an assistant protocol staff type escort the guests along, which is also perfectly proper.
I think it would be better.
In fact, that's probably better.
But have them, the chief of protocol, should not be any upstairs.
No, downstairs is responsible for the rest of the party.
That's right.
And then let the chief of protocol say, I already know that the protocol person should be upstairs.
Anyway, I mean, the mosquitos were always there.
God damn it, there wasn't any reason for them to be there.
We know everybody when we arrive.
Now, if you've got a good piece of protocol, if you've got to go as running the thing, he should take them in, introduce them, and he should step aside.
He should be discreetly outside the door on top of everything so that if something comes up, he can deal with the problem.
Do you hear Carson and Gene now?
Do you hear him?
I'm sitting on your boots.
If he's zeroed in right.
Let me use an example.
If I were a foreman, for instance, I would have been in there.
I would.
Well, yes.
But basically, I'm not sure.
I think you've got to realize, don't ever start a business where they're equal.
That's what I think, is that you have coders and assistants you can protocol.
Let him bring them to the man down there.
He brings them to the man down there.
And he doesn't feel that he's got to walk in front or sideways or back-ass or get in the pictures.
We always have that problem with the bus backers.
They also want to get a picture.
It depends on the attitude of the guy.
Without personalizing it, if I were the chief of protocol, you would have no problem.
I would stay out of the way.
It's a difference in the person and the way they're characterizing themselves, not just their own social standing and all that sort of thing.
I just wondered if the position is such that we really ought to take an in-house kind of a person that we can more depend on.
Well, there's a lot of money to doing that.
Rather than a financial person.
And basically somebody who recognizes that he's there to serve and not to give big shots.
Why did he do cameras the same way?
He had to be in every picture.
And he did a lot of good, but he still had to be in the pictures.
I tell you, if he didn't have the problem, the kind of guy that would be the absolutely superb chief of protocol is Dwight Chapin.
Yeah.
But use him as a staff guy.
Forget about the fact he doesn't have any money and can't entertain guests and take care of all that.
But let him run it as he ran the tours.
That's what you really need.
How about tours?
Could he do them?
He doesn't.
It's hard to define, but he doesn't.
He doesn't.
He's a very good worker, and he's terrific, but you... Really?
I didn't know that.
I don't see him that way.
It isn't.
It isn't that.
It's just there's just a certain...
But he just doesn't have the class.
I'll just pick another person out of the advancement.
I saw some birds.
We had something there.
You've got them there also.
The white is...
There, the white is important.
If this young guy beat her, it would be sensational.
I recommend that we don't have to, I don't mind debating anybody.
There's no time to debate.
If you get a financial, a big financial figure, I just don't count that.
This depends on the guy, but you're right.
Most financial figures that they're going to be in that top, top place are going to feel that they...
It's a survey job.
I think their idea, they should come to the dinner.
separately, and then have the assistant, like a CODIS, he comes, rides in the lead car, or even the front seat, or whatever you want to do, probably in the lead car, then gets out and says, here, in fact, it's ridiculous, let me say, you're keeping it out and present these people to me.
I've already met them.
See, that's another thing.
Come on.
I already welcomed him out here.
And he said, can I be out there with you?
What the hell's he there?
He shouldn't be there at all.
He should be way in the back.
Those pictures, if somebody's got no bootstraps, he can pick those up.
Well, that's the bad part.
Awkward things in the world.
And then you have to go in there, right?
There's three Mossbackers there.
So, obviously, I don't want to walk in front of him and then get a state.
So I have to get, well, maybe, when we get over to the elevator, who gets in first?
This is Mossbacker having to move in in front of me.
And then when we get out, somebody's going to take her.
I'm sure you'll go to the left here.
Well, Mrs. Mosbacher and the wife have to go forward, and then they stand there.
It's really an awkward distance, I imagine.
It's a burden on your system when Pat doesn't come down to meet them at the door anyway.
You sure as hell shouldn't have Mrs. Mosbacher there.
I think the idea of an individual, it's only a short ride anyway from Blair House.
Well, and they'd rather, just like you and Pat, they don't want to have to make small talk.
It's only takes a few minutes, but they don't want to have to continue.
Well, I'd rather pop down and open that door for them.
That's another little, small thing.
But you see, rather than have a chief protocol sticking his big face in there, I'll walk down, open the door, he'll believe me, huh?
He said, welcome.
We go in and get a little more personal.
And there's a buzzer to go up there, and he pushed his phone.
He just told her to do that.
But he'd go up, and she would be there.
But the main thing was, they're all sitting there and getting out together.
I had to shake hands with the super state.
I'd shake hands with this one.
Then I had to shake hands with the Mossbackers.
Really?
Oh, yes, yes.
When did you know that?
Did you really?
Of course.
Oh, that's ridiculous.
They were at the camera drill on the Mossbangers.
I checked it.
So I shake hands.
How are you?
How are you?
You can't ignore your people.
No, you can't.
That's too bad.
I didn't realize it was that bad.
You see, the way we had it in, it was cheap.
The protocol was very virtually like the Secretary's thing.
Like a garage which came by.
We shake hands.
or it would be noticed.
So that's the way it was with the Mossbackers, and it's not gonna be that way anymore.
I don't want them to go anywhere else.
You know, we had a hell of a flat with the Mossbackers.
They wanted to go to Russia, and they wanted to go to China.
And he was indicated that unless he got to go to China, the Russians resigned.
And frankly, I've seen a lot of resigns, but Henry and his sister,
We found it wasn't a goddamn thing for them to do because the foreign countries, the chief of protocol, is not in that kind of a rank, correct?
The Mossbackers went there, not in their rank, as against the Moss, as you see, whereas the chief of protocol, did you know what these standards were?
he was there to make sure things ran right and that's what he ought to be doing just like Lucy
She should be out in the kitchen making sure the asparagus is warm.
That's right.
Correct.
But the chief of protocol should be out making sure that the cars are going to be lined up for getting them out afterwards.
And that they go, there's no delay in getting them out.
I like to think, Bob, that rather than offering this job,
We've got plenty of people who can entertain.
My view is that I would rather find a young, attractive couple of the advanced man type, 35 or 40 years of age, who would recognize they were there to serve and not to be big shots.
Dr. Nick Soros.
Did the mock factor then change anything?
Oh, yeah.
No, no, they don't entertain it.
It entertains, but they do- Why is it a candidate?
But they travel- I don't know.
I don't know.
That's why he's working on it.
Why is it a candidate if the Montbeckers went to every party's town?
But she was, like, she was chairman of the Symphony Ball.
Yeah.
And, you know, she was a socialite in Washington.
Right.
A big figure.
Right.
And, uh, but who the hell cares?
And that gets to the point of, what do we care about the Symphony Ball in Washington?
That's right.
The point that I would make, is there anybody around
in our whole organization that we have now that we know better that we can do it that's why i mentioned codices a known quantity well i mean why why do we rule smoke out of that smoke yeah oh he's so young is he i mean he's uh guess what you tell him well maybe so what do you think bro
He definitely looks like he has no personality.
As far as I know, he's a person.
He's almost too, too proper.
Maybe it's because he's afraid of trying too hard.
I don't know.
And she's sort of goofy.
I would.
I would.
I'd rather have, basically, a younger person.
Attractive.
pretty, but just a good looking guy with a very, that's one I just wrote down.
One of the advanced, a hell of a good guy is, I think it's Bill Meeker.
It's a young guy from California.
Good looking.
Well, he was originally from California.
He's in New York now.
He's an old maker in California.
He was in my camp.
This was his home.
Well, this guy was in the building business or something, and he's made a pot full of dough.
Right.
And he's a very bright guy.
Oh, never.
I'll bet you it's where he was from.
Little maker.
His father was in my 46th campaign.
This boy would be about 40 years of age, a little less.
40, 38.
Yeah, I'll bet you that's the one who went to Southern Cal.
I'm sure he went to Southern Cal.
He's the maker I'm thinking about.
Also, he was a friend of Hilliard's.
Old makers.
And these are family, isn't he?
That's the one I know.
He's a hell of a big family.
You know, we did a talk this year.
Al Cameron and the rest, they were in the building business.
I may be the guy.
And they're very attractive.
They're just, you know, strong, barrel, all-American type.
Now, what's with this guy?
He's very good-looking.
He's almost maybe too good-looking.
But he's very...
I'll tell you a guy.
A guy.
A guy.
He's a title.
And actually, he doesn't want to do it.
was the guy in the head of the member group you're talking about?
Pete Dill.
Huh?
Pete Dill.
Pete Dill, right.
Sure.
Pete, football player, his wife was attractive.
Well, you know, who would also be, who does want to do it, who was an advanced man, whose wife is attractive as hell, Jesus, is Dick Wallen.
Which one is she?
Dick Wallen was the All-American from UCLA.
Right.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, no, he's not very strong.
Yeah.
Hell of a nice guy.
Great personality.
Very outgoing.
Very presentable looking.
And a very cute wife.
Very personable.
See, Rose has got a point.
You can't put a Smoke or a Brantley, anybody with a funny wife, in there.
Because to many abhorrent visitors, they're going to know America by these people.
I hope they will see an all-American team.
That's why I don't want a Jewish.
You see my point?
Well, and you see, the reason I say this about Mrs. Smoak, this is not just my opinion.
Other people have said her face.
Oh, I don't know at all.
She's quite odd.
See, I've been out of all this stuff.
I've heard.
And she is very crooked.
She's a protege of a strong firm or something.
Yes.
I thought, why is that?
The other thing is,
that they would expect to follow in the same footsteps.
If you're going to start a new system, you need somebody else.
Well, I mean, you have a problem with CODIS if you brought a woman type in, because CODIS is senior to it.
Well, does CODIS have a wife?
Oh, yeah, he has an attractive wife.
She's got more clients than he has.
Well, I don't know.
I've seen it through my career, but she's, I'm not sure.
They've got just a, you know, they've got some little kids and not, all that.
I'm not sure.
Wallen is a real possibility of the kind of thing.
He's the Pete Daly, exactly the Pete Daly, with more personality.
He's quite big.
He's a woman that's not real good looking.
But he's very personable.
Well, he's Pete Daly, somebody who isn't available.
I think he's not.
He was the guy who ran our advertising.
The other thing, he might come, though.
You've got two possibilities.
You've got Baker, Bailey, and Waller.
Well, I ought to look through the list.
Yeah, Waller, Baker, Waller, Baker, you can look.
I think you should look at both the man and the wife.
You also should look at the ages.
I think in my mind, you know, that's going to happen.
The other ten.
And I would much, and I just think you should have to face the code strong and say that we want some people on the side or some down there.
It was a painery contributor, I suppose.
You can work it out with Bill.
What about Mike Duvall doesn't have a wife, does he?
Who's Mike Duvall?
Mike is a little... Well, Mike Duvall, he's a very sharp guy.
He's very.
He was one of the advancements.
He's a tall, long advancement.
He's a lawyer.
No, he's a heck of a good advancement.
He's a nice-looking guy, not... You know, I don't want to match Mike's presentable.
I want to be the one thing that...
He's sort of an all-American-looking guy.
You've got to test him on him.
And that is the danger.
Now, I can't wish him to be dead.
Only because of some of the sufferings that I've done, you know, because of the blessing.
But also, it has to do with the basic masculinity.
I don't want to bury this child or anybody who's pulled away.
So do not bury him.
I don't think he has a wife.
A football player then appeals to you because you know you've got a tough, nice guy.
Because I'm not convinced that not having a wife is that much of a problem.
What about Frank Gilbert?
Does he make too much money with the... What does he do now?
Tool, of course.
Oh, yeah, tool.
Tool?
Also, rank is a bit worse.
Oh.
I think it's a problem.
Frank's a great guy.
No, but he's too much.
He's basically too much in our class.
You know, he's a big shot.
He's just the same thing.
I mean, he would, I think it's better to have the chief of protocol not in our social class.
Well, then it's got to be an operational type of, that's why, see, see, I think that's the one, if I work his way up, those are our classes.
That's why there isn't a lot to know.
I think he's very good.
He was a good advancement.
He was one of the very best advancements.
Where is he?
Oh, he's been all over the place.
He was one of the three leaders.
And he was, well... We're going to make him general consul someplace.
He was one of the main ones.
That was the big rally that he had.
The big rally in California.
He was...
He's very good.
He's in the old advanced man tradition.
Very tough guy.
A wealthy man.
Ruthless.
Someone told me once that here was an advanced man, and I wanted to be friends with Chase National Bank and look at him working.
Well, we have a bunch of them.
And nothing is...
The reason I thought of him, and I don't know the answer, I don't know all the names,
Because they don't seem to be picky about what they'll do.
That's it.
Yeah.
Well, that's very evident.
That's true of all advancements.
That's the advantage of advancements.
Advancements are expected as dirty work.
It's what I meant.
It's a little menial work.
Well, they know that all advancements are important.
That's right.
And they're not afraid of dirty earnings.
Also, another thing, Rose, the beauty of the advancement, as she reported it all, is that you'll be a tremendous detail man.
Now he came in without any, you know, and that's what we'd be doing almost any time.
I'd rather have this thing so that this guy will run, operate, use it as a staff job rather than as an award.
Yeah, we look at that whole list of advancements.
You had a lot of, that was advanced.
They had caliber events.
I didn't see that.
You know, you didn't really.
But in Hawaii, I remember it, while the people were having dinner with Prime Minister, a few of the Japanese came and did it.
And a few of the events that were there, some of them were from California.
That's how I ever saw them, from Hawaii.
I don't know any of them.
This thing is, this would be a burial.
You know, these things do not seem important.
I'm curious.
But to me, to me, they're just a terrible arrogance.
And I, you know, they want to scare us.
They're not that arrogant.
But even if we hit them on a lot more ground, I'll tell you this.
If we didn't, we had a hell of a problem.
Because Buss was a, he really was a problem on running those advances as guys.
should have headed the thing and run the operation he wouldn't take he wouldn't bite any bullets when there was a problem he would never go to anybody he wouldn't deal with him so it ended up that dwyer don would have to and then the chief the protocol of the other country would appeal the moss packer would back him up oh boy and he he would back see he wanted to be nice he wanted everybody to like him and so the chief of protocol will go say your people here have said the president won't uh won't ride in the car with with the king
But I can't worry about that.
That's the other thing with, like, Jim Reynolds.
You know, what he remembers, the last time I met him, he drew the word TARP within the 1952 campaign.
And even then, when we were all awfully young, he was too rah-rah-rah for everybody else.
You know, the loud speaker, the cheerleader.
He was the leader of the Eisenhardt rally that night.
Yes.
Yes.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
This is the route to go and get one of the really classy guys.
That's it.
Social.
I don't think, well, his one isn't as outgoing, say, as Julie's.
Basically, until Bill and his one came down here, they were never exposed to any kind of, and you can't really,
Have they done it?
Yeah.
Go ahead.
Mr. Groves, the one on his next list that I, I want to read it, I want to exactly believe it next time.
Do you know what he means by his next list?
Mr. Groves, is it going that way?
It is that way, that way.
So when you see him, or his big touchdown trailer, he would say, that's the blacklist.
But one of them is on, Mr. Price.
That's Louie.
Now, the reason for Les not contributing, of course, is that Nick didn't get Chief of Protocol.
And Nick, of course, he was a sugar head and so forth.
Now, the reason that we couldn't put Nick in that job, there may be other reasons, but one of the reasons is that he tried to pan out of the wall.
Now, that's too bad.
I think Nick would do a good job as Chief of Protocol, frankly, even though he does have sort of, you know,
He would do a good job, but he does drop back a lot.
Well, he's basically a somewhat feminine type of person, you know what I mean?
His personality, it impresses many people that way.
In a certain way, it impresses Pat that way.
He's just, yeah.
So, oh, I know, I know there's that.
He isn't, he isn't that.
No, there's, I know that's him.
I don't even mind if they are, provided they don't show out in public.
The point that I make is that with Les Rui and Nick, don't put them on a band just because of that.
Because Nick Rui, over the years, has done too much.
He has.
His band would have too.
That's right.
But Mark doesn't know.
Nick was with us when a lot of other people were not.
Les Rui doesn't belong on that list because all he did was refuse to contribute unless they guaranteed him.
the chief of protocol.
That's an understandable position for a father to take at some point.
That's different than Herb Brownell's action in calling a contributor and saying, don't give any money.
But it's also different, let's face it, from John Whitney and that bunch.
That's right.
I'll tell you that I remember one time when he really wanted to give Nick something.
I forgot what it was worth.
He said, no, no, put it in the next campaign.
He was around in between
But anyway, we've already picked on that.
I don't know whether he can make something else.
I even thought that you could make it faster.
I think he's happy where he is.
He won't be with his wife.
I'm sure of that.
Really?
Particularly a younger guy.
A younger guy.
And of course, if they are in the workhose, he wouldn't be either.
He'd be a good advantage if
And I think, for old friends' sake, if you talk about getting something to Jim Reynolds, Nick really, in my opinion, deserves a hell of a lot more than Jim Reynolds.
He, to remember, was our, quote, one advanced man in the whole primary period of that damn 1962 campaign.
Ran over that damn statement.
You know, those loxies, those little chutzpahs that stand.
They don't want to travel there.
And they're impressed with everything he does.
Is there anything helpful?
I wonder if Nick would have a problem with confirmation.
They're going to have to be ourselves when they're fooling around here.
He has an alcoholic problem.
It isn't an alcoholic.
No, but he goes with the roaring drunk.
He gets drunk and gets very rough.
That's why, you know, they didn't drink at all.
But then, at the end, they tried to pull a thing on him on me with some record stuff, and I bet it's suppressed, but I'm not sure if you want a confirmation.
If we can, I guess we can.
I don't know if they can get at that or not.
I don't think he helped the government.
Well, I'm kind of pointing to something.
I don't think I would respect FBI general.
I remember that now.
Yeah, he does drink.
Well, he's been drunk abroad, though.
That's the problem.
They call him over there.
He gets real rough when he's drunk.
That's why he doesn't drink when he's on the job.
Yeah, that's about as good as it is.
It's just the problem of .
And they really .
And that's what they were .
Well, they put it on him because his half-brother was an alcoholic.
His half-brother runs the place now.
He was an alcoholic.
You know, it was Upper State New York.
But maybe there's something, you could think of something else.
What about something with you and Bobby?
What do you mean?
Well, there's...
Loads of posts in USIA that people get that don't even have approval.
If you wanted to go overseas, or maybe right over here.
It may not be that there's a problem with confirmation.
You can just see whether or not there's anything in the record.
That's the whole point.
Yeah, because you wouldn't want someone to get hurt.
And those bastards on the Foreign Relations Committee are here.
hearing or anything until the administration has claimed the Vietnam War to his satisfaction, to him.
You know, when you see people die of heart attacks every day, like old Matt lives on, it just doesn't seem right.
He's so bad.
Well, unfortunately, we can put these people in his acting chair.
I don't think we can use him in his acting, whether we officially put him in, I don't know.
You've got Rogers there at the firm, so you have the department head.
You don't have to worry about him.
But the rest of the State Department has to sit there.
You're not going to get your ambassadors confirmed here, are you?
No.
He's not going to confirm anything.
He isn't going to even listen.
Oh, that's right.
He won't have hearings.
Well, until the war is explained.
You know, when Henry gets back, we decide what's going to work.
Well, I think Walter called in about 30 years ago.
He's right there.
There's no way to explain it to him.
Well, it doesn't make any difference.
Too bad, but it is a problem.
Well, but the point is, and this is the thing, and we've got to grow the man, grow him in time.
He's also, we trust we'll see.
You know, we can't deny it.
When that time comes, Henry must not
I forget what it was, but he, you know, I'm 65 and 40.
If you don't remember, why did I make this?
What I'm getting at is, oh, it's on the housing.
Oh, his big kid was on the housing thing.
We had to do it.
Robbie was convinced.
Yeah, even Romney's with us on that one.
I wonder how the builders feel about it.
Not so good.
That's why I heard, I'm sure that's Percy killed a lot of building money, I think.
I think that's it.
Well, he's on that committee.
Yeah.
Now, what do people want?
Higher taxes?
Do they want subsidized blacks?
I don't think that's what we're getting at all.
Shoot a few boys in the window?
do that and then have it put away by Kennedy or put that back by anybody else down here.
See that before you see one of our soldiers.
John Cowher or John Stennis?
Exactly John Cowher.
John Stennis or Herman Homage or, you know.
Or the man from Louisiana, Louisiana, John Stennis.
You know, we'll put it the other way on the thing, send a note over.
You know, all three of them did.
We had three, we got three votes there that we picked up, basically, from an ideological standpoint.
The guy from Louisiana who were with us, Gallagher, who voted against us, Nunn, Georgia, who was with us.
That jackass, Ian Farrell, who voted the other way.
And, interestingly enough, the fellow from Kentucky, the host, who was with us, John, who voted the other way.
So, of course, they lost three votes, some of those losses.
Harry Byrd introduced the reconfirmation of judges yesterday, yeah.
So we got that one in rolling.
Made a strong speech.
He said, only kings, monarchs, dictators, and United States
You know, there ought to be an age when they have to retire.
And that would be with the senator, but they can't run after a certain age.
Candidate for the Senate has to be 55 or less.
Candidate for the House has to be 70 or less.
And federal president?
64 and 68.
It ought to be 64 and 68.
Right.
You could make it three times in a 70.
Or you could make it just to give it a little bit of a flip.
You could make it 65 and 69.
That way you can't hate for the house you're running.
But he was 69, and he's out by 71, and he can't hate for the Senate.
Because the lady asked that there may be a few men who are worth their help, but in a country this big and with all of God's mercy, life is gone.
It goes too fast for them.
Listen, they can't, they can't make it.
God, just look at our people that are old.
Our son falls asleep, falls asleep.
I have invited to buy him a dinner one night.
He is terrible.
I hope he isn't around again.
Do you think he'll run again?
I think so.
He told me that night.
He wouldn't run again if we had the conference and we could have the chairmanship.
He would run again in the United States.
I forgot the word.
Yeah, that was Frank Bowman.
Everybody said that.
But that is long ago.
But he really is this piece way beyond Spain.
He's finished.
I mean, he is not finished in person.
Percy was mentioned because he's an energetic fellow, always working hard, driving people around.
Why doesn't Cotton get one?
Because Cotton is sitting up there drinking.
Let's face it, we are guys.
Most of them are either too tired or too dumb.
That's all there is to it.
But Percy doesn't get one.
He always does.
Percy, he has no chance to nominate.
Absolutely not.
He'll have the total sound against him to begin with.
It's hard to imagine the Republican Convention now.
It's almost impossible to imagine the Republican Convention now.
They don't ever know.
He came up with such a very good point, but he's wrong.
The other thing is, the other thing is, he was wrong.
Oh, is he on again?
Oh, sure.
Well, that's terrible.
Actually, he's got a deal with Bud Brown.
He's going to be candidate chairman.
And Bob was supposed to resign just before the big dinner, because I had laid on the table with him.
I had a threat, but he took a search.
And as a result, we're supposed to resign on March 20th or something like that.
But I announced it at the dinner.
I announced it at the dinner.
Because he had the disaster.
So, Bob, what do you see now?
You think the dinner, the ceremonial dinner, Bob was younger, full of life, and, you know, bouncing and the rest of the booster stuff.
That's right.
He has become that good now.
But even then, I want to remind you that some of the worst people we ever got, we got on Bob Wilson's organization.
Yeah, your friend.
Your friend.
And a couple others.
Ed Gerard.
Ed wasn't so bad.
Ed wasn't so bad.
He made people mad, but he did a pretty good job.
Yeah, but Coke Prentice.
Remember, Bob Wilson just lobbied that to death.
And I forgot, there were a couple other people.
All you have to say is that name to General Cushman.
He almost goes through.
Well, we had a tough time, you know.
We didn't have an adequate staff.
No, but he had a name.
Well, Barton promised I hadn't spent time with him.
I was staying busy.
So, you know, you've got to remember that whether it was Bob Ladd or Bob Payne or the rest, it made you feel like you had to spend more time with him.
basically he's a playboy he's a weak man a weak man well i have a feeling that uh
Actually, Rose, I'm going to tell you the thing.
The guys on our side are one.
They are old?
I don't remember.
But they just didn't have it.
I have a dozen of them.
Even the guys that won.
You know, when we were out in Oklahoma, I knew that the man running for Peter Johnson's thought had no chance at all.
Remember Jim Johnson?
You know who he was running at?
It was Johnson's appointment secretary.
It's impossible, it's impossible, they say, for a man running for Congress to lose.
But the President has just not only carried over the vote by 70%, but that appears boring in this district.
You know, I have a big body of the reaction.
If that was a cover-up, none of them are going to lose any relationship.
There's no way.
Yeah, I agree.
But then, you know, when you wrote it, it tied down to you and to the other guy.
Uh, Pete Belcher came over, you know, threw his arms around me and, oh, he was always on my side.
And he introduced me to this man.
I couldn't believe it was our kid.
I knew right then that man was not going to win.
He was the dog.
Well, he was the dog, and actually, basically, he's almost six years old.
And running against a dad capable of, I mean, they knew he was going to win.
Yeah.
Larry, Larry, Larry.
Thank you.
This guy that beat her is a hell of a guy.
Well, in the end, did you know that Margaret Jacobs didn't campaign for the last three weeks?
Because that doggone A.A. had another heart attack that blew it.
And so she spent the last three weeks at the hospital with him and didn't campaign at all.
Figured since she had won the primary, she wouldn't have.
Oh, I don't know.
Well, it's been going on for the last...
long time here, about 22 years, so.
Well, why would she do that?
She's 74 years old.
That's what she said.
She should have known better than to write.
Do you realize that age is one of the things?
Ben is too old.
Ben is 80.
How old is Mike Henshaw?
He's too damn old.
Because I sat by him last night at that show, and I was amazed at how old he was.
He looked quite old last time.
Well, he just looked old.
He acts old.
Did you take a look?
He seemed much older than you, Scott, who was all sitting next to him.
But we don't have any outstanding men to send us conversating on.
Well.
We're a couple.
But they could all have people that are much or very few.
The Congress are bigger and broader than you see on our side.
As well as on our side as a government.
And even on the brand new ones.
I mean, part of the Energy Department, Scott and none are white votes here, elected without them, that's why.
So, good God.
I'm looking at the Democrats.
They've got two or three people coming up.
They've got, for example, Montero.
I don't know.
Yeah, Montero prepared for the next time.
Great liberal.
But he was smart.
They also have, but from the South, they've got German Tommy James, a fellow that he will follow.
And how old was he?
Tommy James.
He was an amazing kid.
Was the homeowner?
Yeah, he got rid of mine.
But if I take him, he would be a great sponsor.
I'd say that.
Hold on.
See, I'm a boy.
I'm a boy.
I'm a boy.
a totally opportunistic character, let's call it, like Percy does well.
Well, he does well for a hundred reasons, too.
We want to make sure that Percy is a, says the things that the Washington people say, in other words, he's always on that side.
And Baker's got it.
The last time I saw her, she had to start up.
She'd been away at some institution, and she came back and looked to start up again.
But you see, you've got those basically kind of mixed up right now.
Now, this is a basically internally mixed up guy.
He's been scarred and battered, and he's never going to be.
He's a psychological mess.
I don't think Jim Bucky has enough drive to go anywhere.
Just labor is.
I'm going to take you back.
I'm going to take you back.
He's a terrible guy.
He always has been.
You also put it in.
I think we all do.
And he knows it.
You put Bell in, and he knows it too.
And Bell will, you know, he's got something there.
Cook could be a leader.
Cook has a lot of ability.
He is just a random son.
If he could give himself a button dozen, set out on a path,
He would only be a team player to carry him.
He's one that's brought in by the club.
Well, I'll tell you, there's two problems that he's got.
One of them is, I should say, one other who's got a great deal of ability is Tower.
And Tower is smart.
He's ambitious.
But Tower has some character.
It's not a great secret.
There's nobody who doesn't know him.
He's a joke.
He's so bad that he's a farce.
What do you think of him?
Oh, they said he can't walk by the side of the track.
He just may not hit him.
I don't care.
If he hit him, that could be so well.
Are you kidding me?
Oh, he is.
Yeah, he's a... You know what?
He's a little guy with that inferiority complex that goes with it.
So he has to show off to be a big shot.
Well, to tell you the truth, it isn't just that.
He's got another...
He's a negative guy.
Completely.
But he never, that's right, he's never positive.
He's like George Bush.
He's just a wonderful team player.
Those are two.
We lost two guys that could have been great leaders in the Senate.
Bush and McGregor.
Both of them are smart, able, charismatic, and have character.
They both have been of basic principle.
You've got two men that we bought a piece of.
And the other, the other will decide to do so and go to the wrong office.
One in our side.
I urge them to go to the office and not be elected to the Senate.
We'll support you in everything you can.
And he doesn't have the guts to step up when he wants to wait in the fall and get a poll and see how he's doing against Stevenson and all the rest.
And then sit on an ambassadorial position.
Well, I didn't want to do it.
It's a wrong opinion.
I should put him in with the idea that he might get out.
Plus, the fact that you're an ambassador to NATO, you might as well be an ambassador to Mars.
You'll disappear from the face of the Earth.
Nobody in Ohio will hear what's happening in Illinois.
We'll hear one word from them.
I don't think it's ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous.
I don't think it's ridiculous.
You know, the office of emergency services.
He could sit in the NSC if that required a confirmation.
I never understood that.
He never said that.
So, in my view, what will happen there, he would have been in the public domain.
In my view, he will not be John Anderson.
What I think is John Anderson, either of John Anderson.
Andrew, I don't want to comfort you, John.
Well, if it was John Anderson, then Anderson probably could win.
The other one who might come in, however, they will split it quite open, will be the conservatives.
He was very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
On the other hand, he'd be a hell of a lot better than the students.
Oh, anyway.
Sure.
So there you go.
Now, the other one's finished.
They, they're out in the center.
Berkshire, they're out in the center.
But Ben's just taking all the tolls all the time.
He says he runs a lot better than us, and he wants to build a Republican Party account.
We all appreciate that.
And it is great that he's out there.
On the other hand, he said, all right, we can make a deal for him.
That's the final result.
But could he be cramped?
Yes.
Did he get cramped?
Sure.
Because he looks young.
They brought in 300 people cramped, and despite his ability and handling and stuff, where he's far from 11.
And second, he's bald-headed.
But he's fine like he doesn't look good.
The problem is he's been on the ballot so long.
Sure.
And while he hasn't done much for California, he hasn't stirred up any strongholds.
A lot of men should be friends with him.
Well, that's what he had to try for.
He'd be a great senator, and he would not be a good governor.
No, he shouldn't kill him.
So you'll run this ranking.
They'll have a total prime ranking.
They'll have a total prime ranking.
But you see, they'll have a total prime ranking.
And as a result, it'll be just like 58.
Nobody will get in for it.
Regularly put rankings.
That's the reason why we have some jerks.
They'll have a prime ranking.
Well, I think you'll win it, I think.
But then you'll lose the other team.
That's the problem.
Oh, yeah.
Things would be grinding.
And what's the undersecretary going to do?
Veneman's going to run through the Senate government.
Probably.
With Ben.
Well, with Ben or without Ben.
Well, just putting all this stuff together, you know, it's so sad.
Now, I understand that my understanding was that I had a long talk with the Senate government.
I had a long talk.
Basically, we all love Bob.
Bob is a hell of a candidate, but Bob needs a minute.
He needs a manager, and Bob would be a great senator.
It is too bad that George Murphy didn't get out.
That's the question.
We may have missed it.
Bob may have missed his time.
There's no question that his year was 70.
It was, and there was no way Ray wouldn't go along with getting Murphy out, would he?
No.
Well, I miss walking out.
served two years, and then ran for the Senate against Honey.
Well, now Bob can't do that.
If he gets out of the governorship after being in it, basically he'd have to run after only one year has gone.
He'd kill himself for the Senate.
You can't treat the governorship in California that way.
Hell, I don't think he's going to run for president and governor.
He'd have a harder time against Honey than he would against Francis.
I don't think Francis is that tough.
See, I've been thinking Cranston's been on that ballot for so many years.
He has been on that ballot.
You get the point about Cranston.
Cranston does his homework and he works hard, but Cranston's record is 100% of the life.
Yeah, and he's homely.
He looks like a witch.
Second, Cranston is not a good-looking man, and Finch is.
Finch and Rumsfeld have things going for them.
They're both very handsome.
Well, and also the ability to attract good young people.
Young people around you.
And build a following for themselves.
It's a dedicated, loyal following.
Well, let me say, too, that both of them have assets, and they're wives, too.
Yes, they both have good-looking wives.
And Cranston's wife really is a pure thing, you know.
They live just the way he is.
He's the one who's waiting for a house or something.
She really does look like she could run houses.
So you put a finches up against them.
Bob?
Bob could get a good, maybe, man.
Well, the worst thing is that Bob is this.
With the Erasing United States Center, you're walking on mitigation disaster.
is a job requiring day-to-day management and decisions.
You know, you can't delegate all that stuff as governor.
It isn't done that way.
And it'll kill you.
It would probably kill you.
You know what I mean?
Bob, I promise, he can't decide.
If Bob gets dragged down into all the, you know, the little area by himself, and there's nothing to protect the governor, the president is automatically protected, even if he can't handle it himself.
That's right.
No, and I don't think that's his business.
He wouldn't be a good governor, but he'd be a great senator.
He would be.
He really would be.
And if he'd gone in at 70, he would have had time.
He still doesn't have as much time.
He's getting less all the time.
But he would have moved up to being the leader there.
Oh, he's an ideal man.
And so is Romney.
I think Bobby would be a much better senator than Romney.
Yeah.
Yeah, he's got more guns.
Well, he's got the... That's right.
He loves the maneuver, the putting things together.
The senator's got to do it to get something through.
He'd be a great wheeler and dealer.
God, and he'd just be in his element.
Yeah, maybe he will run.
No.
I think he's excited.
I thought he was going to work out the time.
I just can't resolve his advice.
Not against everybody's advice.
Well, I don't know whether the people like Fyerson or the rest of us.
They should talk.
They should talk to the governor.
Because you never know.
Those people may have their own selfish interests.
They want to control.
They like that control of the governorship business.
They think home is settled.
And it's how the Tory got it.
And how Ted Stryker and Len Fyerson would like to get it.
And the governor could do more for people than the president can.
That's right.
Well, they can get those big needles put through.
Well, believe me, we have done everything I could.
I've laid it on the line.
And to both of them, here they go.
Well, I think if Bob goes out there and says he's about to die, some way or other,
Maybe.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I feel maybe he'll decide to go for it.
No.
Maybe he won't.
There's one thing Bob is totally capable of, and it's changing his mind.
That's right.
That's right.
Rigidity is not one of his faults.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, this will help you, maybe.
I personally think the best thing is to get Bob to keep his options open.
And not decide to do something.
And keep your mouth shut.
Keep his mouth shut and not say every week that he's considering this or that or the other thing.
Tell us what might have happened to Cranston.
Who would have thought that he was going to die?
Even at 80, nobody thought so.
Bennett Johnson said he'd seen the league before.
His whole staff was humming, humming, trying to find him.
He died.
Of course, Cranston's not that old.
But Cranston, any man past 40, is a heartache.
You never know on a personal basis what a man's going to do.
I mean, there's all kinds of things.
You never thought that Kennedy would have run off the boat or whatever.
Maybe Cranston would say he doesn't want to be there.
and Sherrod Downey.
It was with a full expectation that he would be a candidate for the United States Senate.
At that time, Kyle Parker was a damn hard race, and was.
Sherrod Downey then just had had enough.
This was a problem with our operation with Murray.
It's not his fault.
I mean, we all thought it was the right thing to do, but he went to Tom Cunningham and Burt and all the rest and promised each of them $150,000 to $200,000 to $250,000 for their campaigns and presidential hearings if they were running the Senate.
He said if a candidate can't get out, get his own money, get himself started, he isn't going to win.
If a guy doesn't think you have to say all the money in your campaign, if you'll just make the race, you can guarantee he isn't going to win the race.
I think what we went through in other campaigns, I was
We had to bust you terribly.
We busted her ten times.
The way people have to win.
Now everybody thinks it's going to be handed on the platter, and it is not handed on the platter.
Who knows?
Something could happen to Ravington.
You know, you never did.
That's why I don't think you should announce things too far ahead on anything like this, because... Well, we thought the old box's plane was going to get lost in Alaska.
That's right.
And that young guy with me.
30-something or other.
You never know what's going to happen.
You could never have had a better lesson, however.
of these small planes.
We just can't allow that.
You know what I mean?
It's too great a risk.
Well, it's interesting.
Joe was saying, next to Wally Hickle, at your cabinet dinner, he said, he was saying that that was just an incredible thing.
When he was governor, he never allowed any VIP who came to the state, regardless of party, had nothing to do with politics or whether they were for a campaign or anything else.
He said, in Alaska, you don't fly around in that kind of a plane.
We always provided VIP aircraft for anybody, any federal official with any reports at all, or any congressman or senator or anything like that.
Always.
State aircraft, you know, to fly around Alaska, because you just can't bounce around in those little planes like that.
Well, they had a daredevil of a pilot.
Was he a daredevil?
No, that's what they say.
I met you in Mrs. Boggs' elective about it.
I would bet you that she'll get a lot of Republican support.
Because she's so well liked by women.
Well, I know.
I mean, here.
I read that in the paper.
Raising money for her.
She doesn't get the money.
She'll win it.
She got such a sympathy.
Oh, well, for her, anyway.
She wins 70%.
Yep.
Yeah, but those kids, he must be getting mental, Oliver.
Yeah.
Well, it must have been a horrible shock.
Well, it had to be a terrible shock.
On the other hand, you can't sit the rest of your life in a hospital.
I mean, those kids, they're not in danger of dying.
If they were, you know, if they were really still on a critical list.
Well, he could just stay in the hospital.
He wouldn't even come over to be sworn in.
He was sworn in at the hospital.
He had to come over there and
He may be playing for all the PR value possible.
You never know.
Oh, sure.
Kennedy's my head up.
He may be a Kennedy type.
Put on that performance.
Well, it still goes back to Kennedy.
The other thing is that he looks old so much as he acts old and tired and bored.
At those dinners anyway.
And negative.
And negative.
We've had him at the leader's meetings and he's invariably has brought up signs of negative.
Whining.
Never anything positive.
Just like Alec.
We were just the same.
I was so pleased when Alec called the other day and didn't whine about it.
I've listened to him whine.
Oh yeah.
He's probably just going to get some.
Well, at this point, he didn't even, I don't think, I don't know if I could even talk to him, but he told me that he didn't know what he was going to do, that they might go back to Colorado.
The very thing about it, he said that he wanted to stay in the cabinet position.
Oh, he did?
Oh, yes, he's right there.
Right.
Well, not, oh, yeah, except a couple of them.
Yeah, not him.
most likely to have this is the court he came in with all of those serving party appeals he had these didn't go to the supreme court because he figured i don't count later but he wants to serve a card of appeals right now sir frank bartlett said he'd be secretary of defense today
Yeah, they'll work on it.
They'll get the thing with the input from those people at State and then
They'll know what we need.
Of course, I must say that Nick and Bill have been good on that, too, crossing those things, because they know who.
But strangers don't know who should come and who shouldn't, and they always put down all the liberal poets and, you know, everybody.
No more.
They put them down, but we knock them off.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.