{"conversationCode":"843-013","tapeNumber":843,"conversationNumber":13,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-843-013","startDateTime":"1973-01-26T17:21:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-01-26T17:28:00.000Z","startDate":"26-Jan-1973","startTime":"12:21 PM","endDate":"26-Jan-1973","endTime":"12:28 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Timmons, William E.; Woods, Rose Mary; Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On January 26, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, William E. Timmons, Rose Mary Woods, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:21 pm to 12:28 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 843-013 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":"5.3","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part III","chronReleaseDate":"23-Jun-2009","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 843-13\n\nDate: January 26, 1973\nTime: Between 12:21 pm and 12:28 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with William E. Timmons.\n\n       Congressional resolution\n\n       1974 Budget\n\f                                                -13-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                              Conversation No. 843-14 (cont’d)\n\n             -House Committees on Ways and Means and on Appropriations\n                  -Tax increase\n                  -The President's meeting with Congressmen\n                        -Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield, Carl B. Albert\n\n       Vietnam\n            -Prisoners of War [POWs]\n            -Mansfield\n            -J. William Fulbright\n\n       The President's radio speech\n            -Distribution to Republicans\n\n       State dinners\n             -Rose Mary Woods\n             -Eisaku Sato\n                    -Hugh Scott\n             -Mansfield\n             -Sato, [Hussein, King of Jordan] Hussein ibn Talal\n             -Scott\n\nWoods entered at 12:24 pm.\n\n       State dinners\n             -Timmons\n             -Scott\n             -Hussein\n             -Arrangements\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:24 pm.\n\n       The President's schedule\n            -Adam Malik\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 12:27 pm.\n\n             -Edward R.G. Heath\n\nWoods and Timmons left at 12:28 pm.\n\f                                              -14-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                               Conversation No. 843-14 (cont’d)","filename":["843-013.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Timmons, William E.","Woods, Rose Mary","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"843-012","nextCode":"843-014","transcript":[{"start":0.41,"end":5.07,"text":"Well, it passed the resolution, Mr. President."},{"start":5.45,"end":7.59,"text":"Oh, did it?"},{"start":7.63,"end":11.44,"text":"Good, good."},{"start":11.46,"end":11.72,"text":"24 hours."},{"start":11.8,"end":15.48,"text":"Well, I think we've got them to be given a pretty good shot here today."},{"start":15.54,"end":19.84,"text":"Well, that was a good session, I'd say."},{"start":19.86,"end":21.98,"text":"It was just a good job."},{"start":22.02,"end":22.64,"text":"That was amazing."},{"start":22.78,"end":24.78,"text":"But they all recognize the strength."},{"start":24.92,"end":28.12,"text":"Well, also, we put the shot across the bow."},{"start":28.16,"end":29.38,"text":"I think there's a..."},{"start":30.29,"end":32.89,"text":"If it's a tax increase for all of us, yours, it's not mine."},{"start":33.79,"end":34.79,"text":"And they're going to have to know that."},{"start":34.81,"end":35.79,"text":"And so I got it."},{"start":35.81,"end":36.75,"text":"They bring this budget."},{"start":37.29,"end":39.2,"text":"They take the responsibility for the tax increase."},{"start":39.7,"end":40.82,"text":"They ask for the responsibility."},{"start":40.84,"end":41.52,"text":"They're going to get it."},{"start":42.4,"end":44,"text":"You know, you just got to lay it to them hard."},{"start":44.42,"end":49.99,"text":"I wish that Mike and the speaker had been able to stay for the given take later on, because that was productive."},{"start":50.05,"end":51.41,"text":"And they had to go back to Congress, of course."},{"start":52.91,"end":54.33,"text":"But they were a problem, I think."},{"start":55.33,"end":57.65,"text":"Well, it didn't take long to bring it up."},{"start":57.67,"end":63.35,"text":"It was good to just remind us of what those people have done."},{"start":63.37,"end":65.26,"text":"You know, except for Mike."},{"start":65.3,"end":68.2,"text":"Everybody in that room supports what we've done."},{"start":68.22,"end":70.02,"text":"Did you realize that?"},{"start":70.04,"end":71.1,"text":"And we had one over here."},{"start":71.2,"end":72.89,"text":"And it was true the other morning too."},{"start":83.08,"end":97.8,"text":"I'm sending a copy of my radio speech to all the Republicans."},{"start":98.02,"end":99.16,"text":"And I've asked the..."},{"start":99.36,"end":104.46,"text":"I'm going to give you two more names that you can add to this out there."},{"start":104.48,"end":109.7,"text":"Scott, he wanted to do the name of the race, and I'm very bad at it."},{"start":111.76,"end":113.2,"text":"Had he told you that earlier?"},{"start":113.46,"end":114.5,"text":"No, he hadn't."},{"start":114.66,"end":115.62,"text":"And we didn't recommend him."},{"start":115.66,"end":117.42,"text":"As you know, we want to get new faces."},{"start":117.44,"end":118.24,"text":"He told me this morning."},{"start":118.26,"end":118.62,"text":"Oh, yeah."},{"start":118.74,"end":121.38,"text":"But if we could add one to that band banner."},{"start":121.42,"end":124.48,"text":"But I wouldn't have it for any of the others."},{"start":125.66,"end":126.89,"text":"Because I told them we were picking."},{"start":127.67,"end":128.65,"text":"They could take their pick."},{"start":129.33,"end":131.05,"text":"Mike should be called, and that's all."},{"start":131.53,"end":133.43,"text":"But not a lot of British anarchists."},{"start":133.45,"end":135.31,"text":"We've got the Sado banner."},{"start":135.41,"end":137.27,"text":"We've got the Hussein banner."},{"start":138.19,"end":141.31,"text":"I think that's good enough."},{"start":142.25,"end":146.87,"text":"They don't have to come here every month, do they?"},{"start":146.91,"end":147.69,"text":"They don't."},{"start":147.78,"end":148.96,"text":"I don't think they expect to."},{"start":149.18,"end":149.74,"text":"Oh, Scott."},{"start":149.9,"end":153.62,"text":"Scott doesn't have to come here every month."},{"start":154,"end":154.78,"text":"Well, he was upset."},{"start":154.8,"end":160.29,"text":"He was invited to a lesser individual once, and he felt that he didn't really want to come to that."},{"start":160.37,"end":161.15,"text":"He wanted the biggies."},{"start":162.16,"end":163.23,"text":"I forgot to say one more thing."},{"start":163.29,"end":168.33,"text":"We were just talking about these dinner girls and Bill Jones' friends."},{"start":168.37,"end":175.71,"text":"It's impossible to please, and particularly Scott, who is a jerk."},{"start":175.73,"end":184.74,"text":"Scott raised Bill on the, I mean, mostly on TV, but raised him, of course."},{"start":184.76,"end":185.72,"text":"It's too late for that."},{"start":186.85,"end":188.83,"text":"Did we have a, did they all accept?"},{"start":188.95,"end":190.17,"text":"Well, I don't know."},{"start":190.39,"end":192.33,"text":"That was so late, you know, right now."},{"start":192.57,"end":196.33,"text":"Let me say that we could put him in the British, but then he gets none of the others."},{"start":196.35,"end":203.94,"text":"You see, we've got, I've added the same now, so you've got one more here in flavor."},{"start":204.07,"end":205.29,"text":"He won't know what I want."},{"start":205.31,"end":207.22,"text":"There are 144 on the British list already."},{"start":207.24,"end":210.72,"text":"I don't know if you're having an E-shaped table, but you can only see the 111."},{"start":210.82,"end":214.62,"text":"So we have to have that in the grid, I suppose."},{"start":214.66,"end":214.84,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":221.33,"end":225.09,"text":"144."},{"start":221.39,"end":225.09,"text":"Well, you have to do it that many over, or you don't have enough."},{"start":225.51,"end":228,"text":"People know everybody the day before."},{"start":228.02,"end":230.94,"text":"We didn't know that, necessarily, so many times."},{"start":231.12,"end":237.38,"text":"I had no objection to the round table."},{"start":237.86,"end":240.58,"text":"Round table, then it's a hard question, isn't it?"},{"start":240.64,"end":247.88,"text":"I wouldn't mind having a round table, but with us seated at a long table at the front."},{"start":249.49,"end":253.53,"text":"It's much better for me not to sit around people, because then I have to talk here around the table."},{"start":253.57,"end":254.23,"text":"See what I mean?"},{"start":254.57,"end":255.75,"text":"It's a very wearing thing."},{"start":255.77,"end":260.31,"text":"And people like to see the Prime Minister and the President sitting together."},{"start":260.39,"end":261.09,"text":"But you didn't do that."},{"start":261.13,"end":265.31,"text":"It's a lot easier for me to do it that way."},{"start":267.09,"end":267.33,"text":"So, yeah."},{"start":267.83,"end":268.05,"text":"Let's see."},{"start":268.19,"end":271.99,"text":"The Mallory is going to sit here."},{"start":272.03,"end":273.17,"text":"My mom is going to sit here."},{"start":273.19,"end":273.73,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":273.77,"end":278.81,"text":"At least we were going to be just partners."},{"start":278.85,"end":278.99,"text":"Oh, OK."},{"start":279.84,"end":285.35,"text":"But if you have to, I would just have the British be ready."},{"start":297.56,"end":299.56,"text":"They do have more fun."},{"start":299.6,"end":302.54,"text":"People get to sit around and talk to each other."},{"start":302.58,"end":304.56,"text":"They get acquainted with people."},{"start":304.58,"end":305.04,"text":"We can share."},{"start":305.1,"end":305.54,"text":"That's right."},{"start":305.84,"end":308.4,"text":"Otherwise, they get seated between two people and they don't know."},{"start":308.73,"end":309.05,"text":"That's right."},{"start":309.11,"end":312.33,"text":"They have eight people around the table and they can talk."},{"start":312.41,"end":316.05,"text":"Well, we can sort of see that they do know somebody at least once."},{"start":323.08,"end":332.95,"text":"And then, you know, like we did once for the fire question, we just put a table for eight of us up there."},{"start":332.97,"end":333.83,"text":"And we can sit there."},{"start":333.91,"end":336.85,"text":"And Eve and I need to sit together for a minute."},{"start":336.97,"end":344.85,"text":"I need to sit with the head governor, because we use the dinner for the purpose of continuing our conversation, you see."},{"start":344.87,"end":348.05,"text":"Other than that, expect that to happen."},{"start":348.07,"end":349.71,"text":"Well, if you work it out, Rose."},{"start":351.72,"end":353.94,"text":"Don't press too hard."},{"start":353.96,"end":355.58,"text":"I gave her the options."},{"start":355.61,"end":356.83,"text":"I said, you take it with you."},{"start":357.35,"end":357.87,"text":"Okay."},{"start":358.43,"end":358.83,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with William E. Timmons, Rose Mary Woods, and Stephen B. Bull to discuss the administration's strategy regarding the 1974 budget, potential tax increases, and congressional relations. The participants reviewed the successful passage of a recent congressional resolution and coordinated the distribution of the President’s upcoming radio speech to Republican allies. Additionally, the group addressed logistical arrangements for upcoming state dinners, specifically focusing on managing guest lists and seating configurations to better accommodate political figures like Senator Hugh Scott.","topics":["1974 Budget","Congressional Relations","State Dinners","Tax Policy","Republican Party Coordination"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-08T01:03:33.232Z"},"topicSlugs":["1974-budget","congressional-relations","state-dinner","tax-policy","republican-party-coordination"],"audioDurationSec":364,"audioFiles":[{"file":"843-013.mp3","bytes":8742288,"durationSec":364.15,"bitrate":192060,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:59.848Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:44:45.311Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/843-013.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/843-013","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/843/conversation-843-013","catalogNaId":417182241,"catalogUrl":"https://catalog.archives.gov/id/417182241","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). 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