Nixon, Kissinger & Rifai on Middle East peace process

Well, see you again.
You know where you said right over here.
Well, yeah.
Two seconds.
We'll do the first just like that.
I'm here to speak to you.
I'm here to talk to you.
Okay, start loading out, please.
Otherwise, I'm free of charge, too.
It occurred to me, Your Majesty, that what would be most useful in our talk is for you to express your views as to where they stand, certainly in the settlement and, of course, in our bilateral relations with the military, as it is.
Thank you all so much.
Thank you.
And I would suggest that there be a way to advise us if this is going to be necessary.
I would say it was actually one of the hardest, most difficult for me for him to talk about his
Also, we're going to be, uh, he's, of course, going to cover it.
He wants to, uh, cover it.
We're going to try to, uh, of course, consider it as a chance for us to go over it.
And, uh, I don't know if he's going to catch it.
He's going to leave it where we're seeing.
of course, whatever.
Basically, it would be most helpful for me to listen at this point, because I must say, to be very candid at the outset, that despite our motives, which you referred to in other areas of the world, the Soviet Union and Vietnam,
I don't have a solution.
We've all been talking.
I have a solution.
But we are trying.
We are trying.
So we would like to hear from you.
Let us think about it.
May I also suggest that after our meeting today, that if sometime later this afternoon you would like to have a word with Dr.
But only if you desire.
In case you're going to see me, because he's going off to Vietnam tomorrow.
I'm seeing him at 3.
Otherwise, he'd be free by maybe less than a minute.
Also, I understand that Manchester is going to stay in this country for a few weeks.
Oh, good.
So that I can get together with Manchester instead of the players.
Yeah, very good.
You're rushing off to...
You see, we have our talk with the Israelis, and they have another go, but it's confusing.
But you'll still be here, right?
We'll be back.
Well, we'll work this out.
No, we'll work this out together.
I'll tell you in just a minute.
Here's your motor.
On a partial solution regarding the opening of the system and the colliding of the escape tower with the head of the solution.
Sir, if you have seen the trade-off of the Israeli front with increased regularity, the Syrians are already more informed and have more support from the other
by the President of the United States was a resurrection which led to the end of the system.
Well, well, well, well, well, well, well, well,
uh as far as uh
better understanding, normalize our traditions in the world.
Nothing concrete has come, as yet, of these statements, but there have been some forms of movement.
We cannot accept any normalization of traditions on the Eastern Pacific side of our nation, or large countries, with us being diffused into internal alienating forces and all that.
This is on the other side.
The Soviet policy in the area, the duration of their position in Egypt, that is to be
who are concentrating on saving whatever they can of their presence in Egypt, and maintaining a footing there.
As for the Israeli problem and the server-on-end as a service, continue to indicate willingness to encourage them on the pre-opening of the suicide scanner, while attempting at the same time to champion the resolve to ensure full integration of security and also restriction of reporting, and center of attention as meeting
And by largely increasing the Israeli population, this could possibly actually
And that is why the Soviets appear to be interested in avoiding or stretching the region area where it wasn't very well yet.
It poses a nuisance to Iran and a very serious threat to the Gulf states, Saudi Arabia, and Syria in general.
The Soviets also appear to be most interested in Syria.
It's possible that they either die in black jails or collect separate military assistance
to say that even the city has come to resolve this issue.
Oh, there's a lot of people who, you know, are absurd about it.
They've got to learn to use the tax code.
They didn't get to do it.
It's not right.
And it has to be made.
The city has to act.
I'm not going to talk to myself.
I'm still a student.
I'm still a student.
I'm not going to change all that.
I'm still going to do it.
Even if it's the city itself.
who's constantly appealing for more of your help as a whole to win.
You have managed to keep up with us with those factors required, and I've accomplished some steps to the entire cooperation with the parties, which have been the key to the attack between the West and East side.
This has facilitated that.
In fact, to continue our policy of maintaining quiet and strong
on the subject of the possibility of negotiations with Israel.
As you are aware from our treatment statements and interactions, Jordan neither desires nor intends to act as a part of the country.
With this right, as she is supposed to do so, she has the chance to do so.
Jordan, which is a decent senator, with this right, as I said in our past evening, has justly and honorably done so.
work at the advice of the governments and exchanges with the Israelis and we are sorry to point out that the Israelis seem, as the last sentence, ever to face the issue of control.
The basis for this election was the failure of our sovereign government, and as well as Jerusalem, which of course is the main starting point.
Jerusalem is the key to a lasting atmosphere in this country.
But this question as well can be followed up with other questions.
And the history is being such a sadist, the past is being such a sadist, but we want this to be a real meeting place for the future.
I think there is some understanding that has emerged from these continuous meetings and some cooperation in certain fields, for example in the area of fighting with
and some kind of problems with this exchange.
I am very proud of you, Your Majesty, that you have had the fondest meetings that we did, and did so well, that giving us confidence is not true.
They were long meetings.
On the other hand, we all came back this way.
We were four hours on the other end of the station.
We were on the other end of the station.
Well, we've got a situation that's going to be... We've got to make this get to us.
Yes.
We've got to make this get to us.
We've got to make this get to us.
Our greatest contribution to medical speed and safety in our land.
We are working to earn as much as needed out today to increase the number of our military and civilian advisors.
Increase the number of our men and women being trained in various children and our army in children and civilian schools.
We feel our presence in our land and our training program for our men and women has had a significant impact on our society, which is more than just tuition.
We hope to be able to do so in the next few years.
and this is functioning in the gas gates and also to draw the energy inside.
We have noted that in all our contacts in Uganda, we are constantly asked to make good attention to the United States government.
The reformatories are at my station always in regard in order to assist the prostitutes who are mostly colonists and extremists and protesters are increasingly coming to them from the area.
We are certain that this is the old station we are far against from and are extinct.
But it actually means that we still have to combat, combat it in some cases.
We believe there is indeed a possibility of extremist and communist influence increasing in the government, especially if we react.
In fact, we have had some
um
One, our entire situation, in terms of the economy, with the return of security and statuses, is also going to have tremendous progress.
So, but school, in terms of economic activity, also going to be very important, although it's not much.
In fact, in response to the confidences there, in terms of interest and others, our investment, that we must have signed.
But I will not state the benefit of that financial situation.
And will require budgetary assistance for some time to come, especially before July 26th.
It had to pay over from last year's budget to this year's.
One is a statue of Jesus, which was added to be the gist of this.
Yes, but it would not have done this much better.
It would have been great, but that was just as a way to develop the budget from the beginning.
That's his budget.
And this is a slatter, which is not as easy to handle.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
and furthermore, of not eating kind of beef.
As a Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister is not totally happy with that.
I would like to explain this to the Minister.
Militarily, our migration program is moving along satisfactorily, which appreciates even the digital reserve.
I may say the same.
to protect the detectives.
We have no intentions of impacting our present armed forces' strength against the Nazis.
But we should improve our firepower and mobility in order to meet the Syrians, to contribute to the success of the Syrians and from there.
As you are aware, the Soviet Army has not been able to administer our strategy to meet Syrian armed forces.
And this is creating a very difficult situation for the armed forces in Syria.
What is the situation with regard to advisory or consulting advisors for both of the ?
Not as much as that.
And what applications do you have for improving the public service system that would change the program?
I think we should enter into some sort of military stance.
And I, at the most, would send you to the fray.
To do so, if you cannot be in a position of military stance, you may well have to hold on to some military class from the north-north-east.
We believe that a military stance would be a plan that you are not in recently, and it is for this reason that we would like
Well, that ain't bad.
That ain't covered.
It's really a great watch that, uh...
I'll have you in the issue, Henry, so you can put it in my, uh...
I'll put it in my, uh... We'll see if there's any... Good.
We'll see.
First, let's come to the bilateral problem.
As has always been a big problem.
We want you to survive as an independent country.
And as we first demonstrated when you were threatened, we are willing to take physical risks.
Now, the money side is very difficult for us now.
We have a significant budget problem.
I will, of course, see that your requests as to the amounts and levels of aid economic and monetary are given very high priority.
I would only suggest that we will have more difficulty in meeting requests now.
And it's just that it's the best place in the world
I don't think that we, that I should be talking to you and I and getting the numbers, because I think that's a matter that should be worked out.
Do you not agree, Henry, as far as I'm concerned, with the other conference that I had that morning?
I thank you, Mike, for the good decision that we had to go ahead with
and other three-year modernization program for the today, you know, closes.
And there's other sessions.
When I handle the plan numbers, I have a chance of how much the level may be and so forth, how much we can help this fiscal year before July, so you can start a crunch right then.
There's a number of 15 days right there around.
Well, there's one.
We've had two sound days.
To ease your situation, Your Majesty, for example, we are prepared to let you apply grand military aid to current operating expenses rather than to new equipment, so if you can defer the purchase of some equipment, it will give you $10 million to play with until July, which is about a third of the additional sum you asked for.
And we are prepared to go to the $100 million level by 2030.
And we can probably find another $15 million, but we would prefer to have you go to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia first.
And if that should fail, we can look into the relation of the female to the male.
The issue appears.
And it could do something, as you just said, that should not happen.
That is the way it is.
But all you have to do is to remember to not be ahead of time.
Two of the installments of that should break.
From the sunset, I will check.
With a promise that I will look into what I said.
As far as the GUS is concerned, we have also joined them.
Again, I'm not indefinite.
I went the last year with my head through the President's intervention to
We appreciate the difficulty and I'm sorry to talk about a lot of figures after what you just said, but the trouble is that we included in our budget, which is basically a $70 million total economic aid.
If we do receive the $17 million, we still have a deficit of $36 million in our budget, and we can cope with that deficit.
So the $17 million that we requested, whether it is here or there, we are promised $40 million in July onwards, and it is from now until July that we face the difficulty.
It is the question of not having the cash to pay incentives for the army, or to pay for the civil service.
Again, I apologize for the figures, but it is a question of Ashraf's ability to keep going until the situation changes.
Well, we will...
It's always a difficult problem.
We will approach it sympathetically.
But I'd be less than happy if I were to say that our problem in the budget is a very serious one this year.
And consequently, we will have an exam with the corrects
But the reason that we would have to
um such as
The Navy will use grant aid for operating expenses such as these to give you $10 million.
Secondly, to support the actual aid and development projects.
I think we can make a major effort, as we did last year, and it's interesting to see what other funds we could ground and shovel.
Well, I don't mind.
That was an answer that everybody has agreed to.
I'm terribly talking about one person.
Right, so the question now is the additional 15 million that we have to see whether we can find.
And maybe by the time this majesty leaves here, we can come to a clear notice of a meeting on that.
Well, that's where I want to turn to.
I want to raise hopes, you know, by the end of February.
Mr. Majesty, about the 22nd.
He'll be back by the 19th.
I don't know about the 19th, but you know that here in Washington is where I'm going to have you stay at California for a couple of days to get rested up.
And some of the viewers still, well, give me a communication.
We'll, we have worked on the thing.
And if we can't put our expert on this, you know, we'll do the best we can.
And obviously, we're discussing, they should discuss it with everyone too.
But if we've got the 100 to start with, then how we get the rest of it, what we can put into this fiscal year goes to the province.
We've also, of course, you have the
military or operating costs at a certain time that may help you.
Of course, if you're borrowing, you're borrowing equipment and you're operating at a short range.
But if you could do that at a short range, looking down the road, we could probably do better.
I mean, that's the way I look at it.
See, my point is that right now, the more that we can...
and put it in operating.
They're robbing Peter to pay Paul, as we say.
I would suggest that ought to be done now.
in your credit branch, your budget branch, so that we can then look forward to maybe next year we can start a call for this.
I think that is part of the program.
The problem with that is that the budget of our ARC this year is, and this was agreed upon, with the American-Italian team that came to Jordan with a 42-million team RC.
When the army presented the budget, they were saying 46 million dinars to the government, which is 1.5 million, and all they lost from the government was 37 million.
So that's less by 5 million, which is 14 million dollars, what the American team had decided the budget of the army should be, and 10 million dinars, which is 48 million dollars less than what the army would like to have.
So the running at the army level had a large deficit.
If we do this system, it might be able to solve the army problem of using grant aid for operation and trust on the military level.
But it doesn't really help the government in any way, because the military can't purchase the salary.
And again, if we say the 100 million dollars that's included in the military aid doesn't
What the government is getting would be only $14 million from July to the end of the year.
And it is a civilian-to-cabin budget, and some of it is going to be $10 million.
And therefore, though, this might help the economy.
And as you say, the economy might save the income of the deputy itself.
So what you're talking about is a need of approximately $30 million.
That would be for a civilian-to-cabin project.
Yes, sir.
But as it is, we're very grateful actually for the very good assistance regarding the $20 million cut on the military program.
This is all done now, but it doesn't change the delay in delivery of all the items.
And again, this is done, the delay is meant to be running into the next year, we're going to achieve it, it can't be just an obvious decision.
But when it comes to, you know,
Well, let us go back to the drawing boards on this.
But let us all have in mind that I'm just having a meeting with our congressional leaders on the budget that I have.
And they're all very sympathetic and friendly to her.
We can raise this and say, I think what I was going to do.
We just have on those years that it's very difficult to keep up in our overall budget.
It's good to get it out on the table.
I don't know exactly what the problem is.
Could we turn, Your Majesty, to the Yoshi situation?
I'll ask you just for initial question.
There are two different strategies.
One or maybe five.
I don't know, Your Majesty.
I have no solution.
But on the other hand, we do have COVID.
If we can end Vietnam, I don't think we should find a way to do this although this has different problems.
On the negotiation front, there are two ways to proceed.
There are, on the other hand, four simple lines.
There is one line that says that Egypt, the Egyptian Israeli settlement, should go first and the Jordan should follow.
There may be three lines.
Another says that two should
And a third would suggest that this has not been our government line at this point.
We have not.
We don't have one.
I mean, the present government line is a regional first, right?
But I heard suggestions from some quarters that possibly Jordan might consider, you know, I say going first.
for trying to break the dialogue with the Israelis.
I think it would be helpful if Dr. Fischinger and I talked this over.
And when I say that in verse two, I'm talking perhaps about not so much about the public forum,
where we put our effort in private channels is that right you'd like to add to that question that's what it seems to me is
You say, let's start a parallel negotiations and so forth and so on.
Well, believe me, any negotiations which have a chance to succeed, we would support them under her credit.
But this situation out there is so explosive.
That if we start a public negotiation that fails, that'll ignite the whole thing.
That'll set it off.
Right?
I feel the fight here.
See, what we are concerned about is a public negotiation that fails.
Simply because we fear that does not mean that we cannot proceed privately and explore.
We wouldn't have had a settlement in Vietnam without doctors doing private negotiations.
All of the talks were purely propaganda for both sides, particularly the other side.
We were willing to talk, but they wanted to bring propaganda.
And also, I must say, the D-52s helped, too.
But here, we don't have D-52s.
Here, what we do have, however, is a very great interest in getting this all dead centered now.
I mean, I say we have a great interest.
She will take just as strong a position as Your Majesty does, as you want.
But we'll hear her out if you want to.
But now I'm talking about the tactics rather than the substance of it, regarding the status of Jerusalem and the borders and all the rest.
Because that has to be, we know that's a problem.
We have the tactics.
What have you managed to say?
What have you learned from speaking about this issue?
It has been a reason to keep it away from the public eye and find ways and means
Obviously, I didn't come to that.
But, you know, we're not the first to leave.
I was a magician, so I'm not going to try to deceive them.
I'm willing to go on our own.
I'm willing to go with Egypt.
I'm willing to go after Egypt or before Egypt.
It doesn't matter.
Do you understand that there would be a possibility of a Israeli-Georgian negotiation or something prior to, or must you wait until this is over?
But you see no objection to trying to proceed?
You see no objection to proceeding, at least exploring the possibilities?
That's what we're trying to get at.
But Mr. Levi and I, that's an explorer, we're going to focus on the output.
And of course, Matt is here to tell us what his experience is.
Mr. Sir, he's had connections with you yesterday.
I'm going to...
There are always elections, but we can't just put everything offline for elections, because after their elections, we'll have nothing to follow forever.
And we can't wait then.
So now, we've got to start to try, try and get off dead center now, if we can.
If we can, I have to say, it would be less of an answer, if we had no solution.
But I think that
We hope to find some way in this very dark tunnel.
Actually, sir, as far as drawing the first object, we have no kind of inhibition whatsoever on that.
We are, as a matter of fact, we started our contacts with diseases and not being able to arrive at that, and so on.
And, well, if you don't mind, please.
No, actually, I was in there.
I didn't get out.
I, uh, I remembered that you're actually dead, uh, so I told him to get out and sit right there.
You said you had to get out and sit right there.
Uh, at least talk to him.
Talk to him.
I didn't have to sit right there.
I didn't need to.
The Egyptian is not sure what that is, as far as other countries can get, or other countries, as far as I am inspired by what they say.
The basic question is, what is the settlement?
And we find that the problem is the same.
If the Egyptian problem is Soviet, then it should be different to Soviet-Romanian.
If ours is Soviet, it should be different to Soviet-Romanian and the Egyptian.
And it should be easier because we are more flexible.
We have the same problem.
We realize, for example, we need border rectifications.
There has to be an exchange of territories.
Obviously, the Marquesan line has to become the boundary.
Jerusalem needs a new status of some kind.
So we are not as entrenched as the Egyptians would be, or the Syrians, for that matter.
Though once we come to the ocean, we can arrive at this magic formula that
We can arrive at it, but the challenge is that it should be applicable wherever there is a problem.
And the answer to your question is that it is a question of time.
We should really believe that Sadat is going to start the war, I think.
Keep going.
Well, we are.
It seems that we've been meeting, Your Majesty, for many years.
I was out of office.
I saw you at the altar at one time.
Come on in.
I've seen you then for four years.
You've been meeting.
And while the situation is always difficult, I suppose the miracle is that you survived.
that we're thankful for, that your country survives.
Many of the residents, from the beginning, thought you were a good person.
And going back to, oh, all these, one year or so, or 25, I read the prediction, Europe cannot last.
Europe cannot last.
But you lasted.
You lasted because
Basically, it's reflected in your people.
And we know this.
And we are not just trying to give you soft words.
Right.
Good news.
But now that we are able to focus attention to this, which we hope to, we're going to work.
We're going to talk to you very frankly, just as we've talked to you very frankly.
We're going to listen.
I think that's really what we're going to do.
We will try to determine what, how we can, you know, always recognize
Posing something that's presented by everybody.
You better watch that for yourself.
God knows they need it.
They need every cent they've got, not in tanks, in the planes.
They need to help most people.
And that's why, of course, we irrigate more acres.
Maybe some power, I'm not sure, probably very helpful, but the people still need to produce.
It's created massive problems, actually.
It's created, because now they don't get to sell it anymore.
The richest wine in Mississippi is down around the Nell.
You get down here, it's really damp in Mississippi.
And it would mean that wine would still have to be artificially fertilized.
The whole ecology of the Delta has changed, yes.
I'm sure it's such that the asthma dam will turn out to be in that place.
All right, great.
Well, when they made the studies, they suggested to President Aceves that they should erect the series of smaller dams all across the river.
But he wanted the filaments.
He wanted the filaments.
of course, always like to build big things.
We always have the biggest bearer, biggest dad.
But we had a good talk and we will make sure that we work on this problem.
I mean, I have all of your concerns.
We are sending Dick Holmes to, uh, Iraq, to, uh, Iran.
And, uh, I think his being in the area of an operating basis, uh, will help us too.
He, of course, will be a ambassador to Iran, but, uh, he will not be able to travel in the area.
And, uh, he has our total confidence.
Our total confidence.
We've given him, or you've given him, some special responsibility for the house that will tie in with his mattress, his own mattress.
But slowly, though, it's causing us pressure from the inside out.
Not pressure to squeeze about.
Well, we'll...
Yes, sir.
You'd rather wait till you get back to the former party than you would die without a picture.
Well, I don't know that this would get silly.
I don't think you may have 100%.
I would have to rely on sense.
What can be?
Don't worry about it.
How is it?
How is it?
How is it?
How is it?
How is it?
How is it?
The private issues, I think we should just keep them to ourselves.
I think you should report to them, as you have to to me, what you've said about all these problems.
I think it might be well if you emphasize that there are great dangers to them.
We must not have a public favor.
I think maybe that's not a bad point.
You know, I mean, I, uh, but who's my friend when we get their news?
No one has all the knowledge.
That's because they get their news.
I mean, of course, as far as any private name is concerned, it might be private news.
I don't know.

Nixon, Kissinger & Rifai on Middle East peace process

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Also recorded on February 6, 1973

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