Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 854 › Conversation 854-006

Nixon & Johnson on Prisoners of War and Vietnam War

Tuesday, February 13, 1973 · 8:47 AM–8:54 AM ET · Oval Office · 6 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Johnson, Claudia A.Conversation854-006 on Tape 854StartTuesday, February 13, 1973 at 8:47 AMEndTuesday, February 13, 1973 at 8:54 AMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 854-006 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and former First Lady Claudia "Lady Bird" Johnson discuss the return of American prisoners of war and the appropriate way to honor the occasion. Nixon proposes raising the American flag to full-mast from its current half-mast position to signify the joy of the soldiers' homecoming, reflecting the sentiment that the late President Lyndon B. Johnson would have desired such a tribute. Nixon commits to consulting legal counsel regarding the protocol for flying the flag before proceeding with an official announcement.

Audio

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NARA Description

On February 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Claudia A. Johnson met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:47 am to 8:54 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 854-006 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 854-6

Date: February 13, 1973
Time: 8:47 am - 8:54 am
Location: Oval Office

The President talked with Claudia A. (“Lady Bird”) Johnson.

[See Conversation No. 43-60]
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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Hello?
Hello?
Hope I didn't get you up too early.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that's right.
It's only an hour different anyway.
Yes.
I was just watching the television on the eve of your return.
Did you get to see it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, no, no, I meant last, I think they came in last night, I mean the night before last, you know, and so forth.
Well, that's really one of the, one of the most moving things you could possibly imagine.
And, uh, I think we can all be, uh, be very, uh, very thankful, and I know Lennon would just think this would be a great day.
I talked to two of the wives, Gavin Denton and, uh, wife, and, uh, well, a household commander, and, uh, Ernst Seifert, who's raised...
who each had been raised seven and a half years, and to hear them talk, to hear something, to hear something.
And I was like, yeah.
Well, I had to believe him, and I was going to ask him one thing.
I don't know whether it's legal, and I don't want to check unless you think.
I noticed...
Somebody said that they would turn this through.
They did a great load.
We ought to fly the flag.
I was thinking that we might just suggest that the flag go up.
You see, we have only, we have about a week, two weeks left of the morning parade.
That's right.
Now, I don't want to build a machine that's good.
I would only build it if you thought that, uh, the, uh, the genders occurred to me.
I just saw that.
I saw the idea.
And, uh... Well, the way I would say it was that, uh, I had talked to you and that, uh, that, uh, you felt that, uh, that, uh, that view of the...
this great day that you knew that your President Johnson would have won the flagpole.
And, yeah, well, yes, that's right.
And I was thinking, I was thinking that it would tend, I think it would tend to remind people that that's what he could want, too.
You see what I mean?
the flag being the half-mast, and they see it go up, and it reminds them again that we're all working for the same thing.
But if you have any questions, I don't know why we wouldn't do it.
I just thought that the flag was the half-mast.
Make you feel sad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, I mean, the way we would put it is that I would just say here that I talked to Mrs. Johnson this morning, and she feels that the flag should have been heard.
President Johnson would have wanted the flag flown on this great day.
as they return, and so forth, but the flag up.
That's what, I think it, I think it, I think it, I think it can have a good emotional bank, you know, that's what I think.
And also, it's, it's, at least, you know, I want to continue to, to get him and, of course, Neil and, you know, being the war makers in the rest, to just tend to, to put it to
Yes, not again.
I've got to check.
I've got to check what the law will allow that.
The flag is down for three days for proclamation.
And then I would have it come up and then stay up for the balance of the period, you know, as these people come down.
But that's the way it would be.
That kind of thing, I'm just thinking, it might have quite an impact on the country to see the flag fall.
Yes.
as these men come home you see they'll all be coming home and so forth and uh they're connected people be having flags and it's uh it's uh it's my idea that this is somebody i know somebody from one of the uh veterans organizations but uh he didn't say this he didn't he just said flags would be broken or something like that this is the time to apply the flag so and uh
But if you, if you don't think, if you think, well, I'll have it quietly checked, it is, yeah.
His own view, well, he was an outgoing, you know, he was an emotional man, and I think he started to say, well, why not, you know?
Right, right, after these men, these men who were so, who were the real, the real heroes, you know?
These are the heroes, not the people of North Canada.
All right, all right.
Well, if you think, well, let me just check it off and find out if it's possible.
I'll let you know, and then we'll have the announcement written, so that you'll know that I'm okay.
We'll call you back in a few days.
All right.

Also recorded on February 13, 1973

  • 043-058 8:35 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Jeremiah A. Denton, Jr. talked on the telephone from 8:35 am to 8:37 am.
  • 854-004 8:35 AM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Mrs. Jeremiah P. Denton met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:35 am to 8:37 am.
  • 043-059 8:37 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:37 am and 8:47 am.
  • 854-005 8:37 AM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:37 am and 8:47 am.
  • 043-060 8:47 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Claudia A. Johnson talked on the telephone from 8:47 am to 8:54 am.
  • 043-061 8:54 AM · 25 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 8:54 am and 9:34 am.
  • 854-007 8:54 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 8:54 am and 9:00 am.
  • 854-008 9:00 AM · 6 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 9:00 am to 9:15 am.

All 55 conversations from February 13, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 854-006, February 13, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/854-006 (accessed November 15, 2026).