{"conversationCode":"854-026","tapeNumber":854,"conversationNumber":26,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-854-026","startDateTime":"1973-02-13T17:38:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-02-13T17:43:00.000Z","startDate":"13-Feb-1973","startTime":"12:38 PM","endDate":"13-Feb-1973","endTime":"12:43 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.); Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On February 13, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:38 pm to 12:43 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 854-026 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 854-26\n\nDate: February 13, 1973\nTime: 12:38 pm - 12:43 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft.\n\n       Vietnam settlement\n             -Henry A. Kissinger\n                     -Report\n                     -Meetings with North Vietnam\n                     -Departure\n                     -Hong Kong\n                     -Substance of meeting\n                     -Report on economic talk\n                            -Aid amount\n                     -President’s note\n\n       US-Cuba relations\n            -William P. Rogers\n                     -Meeting with President\n            -Hijacking agreement\n                     -Kissinger\n                     -Treaty\n                     -Cuba\n                     -People’s Republic of China\n            -Press conference\n                     -Rogers\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 12:38 pm.\n\f                                                -42-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                             Conversation No. 854-26 (cont’d)\n\n       President's schedule\n              -Meeting with Rogers\n              -Meeting with Donald H. Rumsfeld\n                      -Photographs\n              -Meeting with Richard M. Helms\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 12:43 pm.\n\n       Hijacking agreement\n              -Effect on PRC\n              -Cuba\n\n       Prisoners of war [POWs]\n              -Collaborators\n                     -Court martial\n                             -Col. Robinson Risner\n                             -Pardons\n                             -Gen. John D. Lavelle\n                     -Prosecution\n                             -Elliot L. Richardson\n                     -Information\n                             -Release\n                                     -President’s approval\n                     -William P. Rogers\n\n       President’s schedule\n              -Charles G. (“Bebe”) Rebozo\n              -Bull\n\nScowcroft left at 12:43 pm.\n\f                                               -43-\n\n                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM","filename":["854-026.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.)","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"854-025","nextCode":"854-027","transcript":[{"start":0.23,"end":4.74,"text":"I wanted to ask you about, uh, do you have any further report from Hacker today on, uh, his meetings?"},{"start":5.12,"end":5.42,"text":"No, sir."},{"start":5.43,"end":11.44,"text":"Only, only that he had a two-hour meeting, but no, uh, nothing else."},{"start":11.72,"end":15.08,"text":"But he's, uh, was he delayed?"},{"start":16.18,"end":19.21,"text":"Uh, he did, he, uh, was going to leave at 9 o'clock in the morning."},{"start":19.27,"end":21.81,"text":"He left at 12.30, and that gave him time."},{"start":22.24,"end":27.44,"text":"for this two-hour meeting, but we've had no report on what the substance was."},{"start":27.94,"end":30.14,"text":"We don't have anything about his economic progress."},{"start":30.89,"end":40.19,"text":"Only what I read you last night, that they seem to be at least understanding in the sense that they didn't insist on specifying amounts."},{"start":44.66,"end":51.64,"text":"But I think he probably delayed and asked for that extra meeting as a result of your note, which"},{"start":52.75,"end":55.05,"text":"I think you need to get that across."},{"start":55.15,"end":55.81,"text":"Oh, I think so."},{"start":55.89,"end":56.81,"text":"And I think that's it."},{"start":57.37,"end":60.51,"text":"We cannot be in a position."},{"start":60.53,"end":61.87,"text":"Let me ask you this."},{"start":62.43,"end":64.81,"text":"I think it's useful."},{"start":64.87,"end":65.41,"text":"I see him."},{"start":66.11,"end":67.59,"text":"And I don't have the time for anything else."},{"start":68.6,"end":70.3,"text":"Is there a real problem with that?"},{"start":70.46,"end":74.72,"text":"I don't send it off to Henry, because he's so busy over there telling him."},{"start":74.86,"end":76.45,"text":"What is it, a treaty with Cuba?"},{"start":76.61,"end":80.85,"text":"It's just a hijacking agreement, and I don't know that there's any problem in it at all."},{"start":81.45,"end":92.39,"text":"I guess my real question is whether or not he thought there would be any impact while he's in China if something were announced on the streets, and I don't know that there would be."},{"start":93.88,"end":96.74,"text":"But that was the only point of which I..."},{"start":97.97,"end":98.49,"text":"Well, I did."},{"start":98.53,"end":100.23,"text":"We ought to get Bill Rogers over here."},{"start":100.57,"end":104.89,"text":"He's got to make a big deal out of it because of what this press conference is."},{"start":105.05,"end":110.5,"text":"I just want to make it clear."},{"start":110.54,"end":111.9,"text":"Where is it?"},{"start":112.14,"end":113.12,"text":"So, just wait a second."},{"start":113.2,"end":118.12,"text":"I'm going to discuss it."},{"start":118.14,"end":118.74,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":118.76,"end":120.74,"text":"You can have Secretary Rogers over here."},{"start":126.03,"end":126.83,"text":"435 somewhere."},{"start":127.77,"end":128.85,"text":"Is Romaine coming by?"},{"start":128.95,"end":129.35,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":129.47,"end":130.69,"text":"He's coming by."},{"start":130.73,"end":135.89,"text":"He's like the rest of the way over to you?"},{"start":136.27,"end":136.69,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":136.71,"end":139.29,"text":"First floor, on 9."},{"start":141.07,"end":143.23,"text":"He'll be over in just a few minutes."},{"start":145.45,"end":153.57,"text":"Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh."},{"start":156.02,"end":163.35,"text":"When you mention helms, helms, tomorrow, that's not only helms, it's a routine."},{"start":164.41,"end":166.13,"text":"You'll do that during the 11th, 12th, 13th period."},{"start":166.19,"end":172.84,"text":"You might want to hear someone, you might want to have staff during the 15th period if you'd like."},{"start":172.85,"end":174.94,"text":"It's just like more pressing things."},{"start":176.1,"end":177.66,"text":"Yeah, there are some more though, aren't there?"},{"start":187.2,"end":191.26,"text":"Well, as I say, that was my only concern about the hijacking, and I can't imagine that there would be any connection."},{"start":191.42,"end":195.72,"text":"Well, I had a good talk about it."},{"start":195.74,"end":201.44,"text":"I don't care if it does re-irrigate the Chinese."},{"start":201.48,"end":205.16,"text":"We've got to take a strong view on that."},{"start":205.22,"end":211.71,"text":"Well, that's something I'll consider."},{"start":226.71,"end":244.53,"text":"i suppose i suppose the problem would be at the car i think that that would be that would be a real problem i think uh i i just want to quietly go away well i i i think that's the best really i think"},{"start":255.44,"end":256.12,"text":"Well, it really is."},{"start":259.39,"end":276.42,"text":"But I think unless something comes out on some of the prisoners that is really, really bad, I think at this point all we can do is tarnish what now is a good story by raking over the church."},{"start":280.74,"end":281.7,"text":"Well, I have told..."},{"start":283.61,"end":294.45,"text":"So far all I've told them is that we want absolutely no information out on this at all."},{"start":314.57,"end":315.23,"text":"All right."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with General Brent Scowcroft and Stephen B. Bull to review the status of Henry Kissinger’s ongoing negotiations with North Vietnam and discuss the political implications of a proposed anti-hijacking agreement with Cuba. The President expressed concerns regarding how the timing of the Cuban agreement might affect U.S. relations with the People's Republic of China, leading him to request a meeting with Secretary of State William P. Rogers to coordinate the public rollout. Additionally, Nixon addressed the sensitive issue of returning prisoners of war, directing that no information regarding potential collaborators be released to avoid jeopardizing the positive public narrative surrounding their return.","topics":["Vietnam War","Henry Kissinger","Cuba","Hijacking","People's Republic of China","Prisoners of War"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-08T01:19:03.587Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","henry-kissinger","cuba","hijacking","peoples-republic-of-china","prisoners-of-war"],"audioDurationSec":330,"audioFiles":[{"file":"854-026.mp3","bytes":7930999,"durationSec":330.33,"bitrate":192072,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:59.850Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:44:48.253Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/854-026.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/854-026","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/854/conversation-854-026","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}