Conversation: 857-005
Prev: 857-004 Next: 857-006Start Date: Thursday, February 15, 1973 4:12 PM
End Date: Thursday, February 15, 1973 5:02 PM
Participants:
Nixon, Richard M. (President); Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.); Goodpaster, Andrew J. (Gen.); White House operator; Moorer, Thomas H. (Adm.); [Unknown person(s)]; Bull, Stephen B.Recording Device: Oval Office
NARA Description:
On February 15, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft, Gen. Andrew J. Goodpaster, White House operator, Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, unknown person(s), and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:12 am to 12:02 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 857-005 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid:
Conversation No. 857-5
Date: February 15, 1973
Time: 11:12 am - 12:02 pm
Location: Oval Office
The President met with Gen. Andrew Goodpaster and Gen. Brent Scowcroft. Members of the
press were present at the beginning of the meeting.
Prisoners of War [POWs]
Vietnam settlement
-President's accomplishment
Pentagon visit
-Goodpaster's attendance
-North Atlantic Treaty Organization [NATO]
The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time after 11:12 am.
Request for Elliot L. Richardson or Adm. Thomas H. Moorer
-29-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
Pentagon visit
-Goodpaster’s attendance
-NATO
-Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
[Photograph session]
Military
-Year of Europe
-South and Southeast Asia
-Latin America
Europe
-Importance
-Economics and military
-Mutual and Balanced Force Reductions [MBFR]
-Agenda
-Conference on Security ad Cooperation in Europe [CSCE]
-Military implications
Scowcroft talked with Moorer between 11:14 am and 11:15 am. The President and
Goodpaster can be heard in the background.
Meeting with the President and Goodpaster
[End of telephone conversation]
Meeting with Joint Chiefs of Staff [JCS]
-Goodpaster’s attendance
-Defense Secretary
-Service Secretaries
-Report to Joint Chiefs
-Return of POWs
-Withdrawal
-Cease-fire implementation
Relations with Europe
-Troop levels in NATO
-30-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-CSCE
-Discussions
-Edward R. G. Heath
-Economic considerations
-Trade
-Security arrangements
-Vietnam
-Vietnam settlement
-Demonstration of US will and credibility
-US allies
-Japan, Thailand
-Mutual security
-Vietnam
-Peace with honor
-US goals
-May 8, 1972 speech
-Consequences of failure
-Allies’ loss of confidence
-Encouragement of aggression
-Europeans’ confidence
-US commitment to NATO
-Strengthening
-President's statements about NATO
-Negotiations
-Position of strength and stability
Members of the press left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.
President’s statement
-European confidence
European negotiations with the Union of Soviet Socialists Republics [USSR]
-President’s commitment
-European confidence in Supreme Allied Commander, Europe [SACEUR]
-Dwight D. Eisenhower
December 1972 bombing
-European reaction
-31-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-Great Britain
-Greece
-Turkey
-European communist
-Helmet H.W. Schmidt
-Australia
-New Zealand
-Japan
-Heath’s support
-Schmidt
-Socialists
President’s policies on NATO
-European interests
-Friendship
-US in Vietnam
-Impact of early withdrawal
-Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines
-Aggression
-USSR, People’s Republic of China [PRC]
-US allies’ support
-Canada
Canada
-Relations with US
-United Nations [UN] vote on Taiwan
US allies
-Reaction to US policies
-Criticism of December 1972 bombing
-Canada
-Pragmatic relationship
-UN vote on Taiwan
-Leftists, press, youth
-Heath
-Luncheon with Goodpaster
-Relations with US
-Behavior during December 1972 bombing
-32-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
NATO
-Nixon Doctrine
-Application
-Mutual interests
-National Security Council [NSC] study
-Importance of Europe
-MBFR
-CSCE
-Negotiations with USSR
-Gen. Lauris Norstad
-Status of forces
-Stability
-Problems
-Psychological impact
-Arbitrary deadlines
USSR
-Proposals
-Common sea lanes
-Principle of party
-Mixed packages
-Adjustments
-Détente
-US view
-Negotiations
-Phases
-Results
MBFR
-Staff views
-Goals
Military Unity in Europe
-Rationalization of forces
-European commitment
-Economies
-Flexibility
-33-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-Unity
-US cutbacks
New Technologies
-Smart bombs
-Experience in Vietnam
-Anti-tank technology
-Helicopter
-Application
Force Restructuring
-Budgetary cuts
-Modernization
-New technology
Future
-Activate
-Relations with NATO and USSR
-NATO
-Consultation
-Sensitivities
-Effectiveness
-President’s foreign policy
-Basis
-Personal relationship
-USSR
-PRC
-US interests
-Need for US-European relationship
-State visits
-Georges J. R. Pompidou, Willy Brandt
US-German relations
-December 1972 bombing
-Germany’s regrets
-Germany’s domestic politics
-Leftists
-Defense minister
-34-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-Former labor leader
-Views regarding US
-Schmidt
-Political coalition
NATO
-Denmark
-Cutbacks
-US opposition
-Belgium
-Cut in term of service for conscripts
-Germany
-Restructuring of forces
-German military’s opposition
Congress
-Willingness to cut back
-European criticism
-Effect on Senate
-Isolationism
-European cut-backs
-Japan’s view of cut-backs
-Congressional response
-Denmark’s proposals
-Effect
Tactical nuclear policy
-Goodpaster’s opinion of Richardson
-Need for consensus on value and limitations
-Unresolved questions
-Studies
-Modernization
-New technology
France
-US relations
-Gen. Charles A. J. M. De Gaulle
-Areas of cooperation
-35-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-Michael Debre
-Role in US relations
-French military
-Reaction to NATO
-Cooperation with Goodpaster
-Improvements in relations
Spain
-Horatio Rivero, Jr.
-Capabilities
-US-Spain relations
-Richardson’s support
-Joint committee
-Lopez-Rabule [?], Rivero, and Gen. Diaz-Allegria [?],
Virginal [?]
-Military aid agreement
-Foreign exchange
-Surplus
-Political interests
-Gen. Francisco Franco
-Preparations
Goodpaster’s meeting with Donald H. Rumsfled
-Military matters
Cooperation with allies
-National interests
David M. Kennedy
-Meeting with Goodpaster
-Cooperation
Rumsfeld
-Experience as NATO ambassador
-Future in politics
-Public appearances
-Style
-Intelligence
-36-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
Mamie G. D. Eisenhower
-Appearance
-Strength
-Goodpaster's visit
-Augusta, Georgia
-Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
-Appearances in public
-Public responses
Henry Fairlie's book
-The Kennedy Promise
-US foreign policy
-President’s conversation with Ronald W. Reagan
-John F. Kennedy
An unknown person entered and left at an unknown time between 11:12 am and 12:02
pm.
-View on Cuba
-Kennedy’s foreign policy
-Criticism
-Assessment of Dwight D. Eisenhower’s foreign policy
President’s foreign policy
-Contrast with Kennedy’s foreign policy
-Crisis-orientation
-Mistakes
Cuban Missile Crisis
-Kennedy’s handling
-Risks
-Military advantage
-Fidel Castro
-Stable position
-Soviet missiles in Cuba
-Eisenhower’s responses
-Cienfuegos
-37-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-Bay of Pigs
-Reasons for failure
Guatemala
-Eisenhower’s action
-Middle East Crisis of 1956
-John Foster Dulles
Vietnam settlement
-POWs
-Heroes
-Casualties
-Congressional Medal of Honor
-Press
-Praise for draft dodgers and deserters
-Calls for amnesty
-POWs
-Heroes to nation
-National morale
-Critics of President
-Campus protests
-Amnesty
An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 11:12 am.
Fairlie’s book
-Value
-Goodpaster
-Rumsfeld
The unknown person left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.
-Analysis of American public relations
-American presidency
POWs
-Support for bombing
-Answer to critics
-Moorer’s comment
-38-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-December 26, 1972 bombing
-President’s Christmas vacation
-Florida
-Bombing halt
-Number of B-52s
-Effects
-Attitudes of captors
-Effects of POWs
South Vietnam
-Chance for survival
Bombing of North Vietnam
-POWs’ responses
-Press relations
-Television [TV]
-Public statement
-Reasons
-Impact on North Vietnam
-Private negotiations
-Public support
-Press criticism
-Bombing in World War II
-US infantry
-German cities
-Civilian areas
-Compared to Normandy landing
-Eisenhower
-Seine river bridges
-Gen. Curtis Lemay
-Impact
-Moorer’s view
-Duration
-White House staff
-Concern over criticism
-Press
-Criticism
-Churches
-39-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Tape Subject Log
(rev. Oct.-09)
Conversation No. 857-5 (cont’d)
-Nitpicking
Flag flying at full staff
-Claudia A. (Taylor) (“Lady Bird”) Johnson
-Patriotism
Mansfield-McGovern amendment
-Bugou
-POWs in exchange for withdrawal
-Loss of pride
Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 11:12 am.
Arrival of J[ames] Curtis Counts
Bull left at an unknown time before 12:02 pm.
Vietnam settlement
-Success
-Impact on US people
-Southeast Asia
-Self-reliance
-POWs
-Impact of return
-Statement by Denton
Goodpaster and Scowcroft left at 12:02 pm.