Conversation 859-038

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Why'd you get all the negative?

He had not been told on January 23rd when he was up at the Senate Policy Committee luncheon.

Make your announcement that night.

Yeah, it was a, it was a, I don't know why we didn't know.

We didn't know it was there.

No, we didn't know.

Ron told us, Ron talked to us, Ron told us that you were going to be making an announcement that night but that you didn't know yet whether it was going to be, whether you were going to have to do a joint session or whether you were going to do it out of your office.

And the vice president said, can I tell them that?

And Ron said no.

You can't, because you're in a full group of senators, and until it's decided, you can't say anything.

Well, what happened then?

It is our fault.

Ron, Ron, don't question this.

I think it is.

I think we made a mistake.

No, no, we made a mistake, because what happened is, he had many proceedings.

He was up there after lunch, and he was doing a queue, and he gave a speech, and he was doing a queue, and I had to get something else.

One senator stood up and said, when is the president going to,

answer to all the critics who keep hammering us on why is he doing the December bombing and all that.

When are we going to get some kind of an answer we can use?

And the vice president was just in the process of saying, well, you know, at the proper time, the president will.

When Hugh Scott was handed a wire tape, you know, that said the president was going to address it.

What was the situation?

It was fine.

Sure.

We just talked about it.

We agreed that he should have been told, and he should have been.

But, I mean, that's his stance from, you know, it's up to them to keep on top of stuff like that.

When they know a story's breaking and he's up there before everyone, we would, if you were up there for Christ's sake, we'd have ten people watching everything, you know, the wires and keeping in touch and all that stuff to really know what happened to him before.

But he doesn't do that, and that's, we've got to help him on that.

I think his complaint was to a degree justified in killing the woman.

Ron took the E4 and turned around and hit him on the beard.

Are you going to go?

Sure.

He said no first.

He said, I have it right and I don't have to go.

Does he have it right?

I think he wrote in for something once when he went to a group and said he don't have to go next year, but unfortunately that was last year and he didn't go last year.

So he's already gotten out of one.

And he said, well, geez, I don't think I should go make jokes.

Well, Ron said, you don't have to make jokes.

You just respond to the toast at the end.

Two minutes.

And it should be serious.

It shouldn't be funny.

I said, this is an ideal opportunity for you because this is a chance to hit the peace with honor thing.

And you're responding to a toast to the president, so it's a perfectly appropriate thing to talk about the man of peace.

And he said, oh, fine.

And he didn't say fine.

He said, okay, I can see.

Well, if he doesn't see it as an opportunity, he's a goddamn fool.

But he doesn't see it.

He sees it as, he says, I'll hate every minute of it.

I hate every minute of it.

That's exactly what I said.

You don't need to say that to the president.

He's hated every minute of about 30 of them that he's done.

I'm so delighted, though, that I...

I was trying to think of something that I could do

Rex came in today and asked about the colors.

But I think we have a problem here.

I know he said he'd been and that Bruce Carey has been handling the thing.

But I think it's a song.

So I'm saying, oh, there's one point that's very, very understood, and that's the budget thing.

Any excessing cost that is not taken care of by the contribution must be contributed.

I mean, I can think of nothing that could be more harmful to us at this time

All these budget problems to say that the president has ordered a bowling alley for them and taxpayer's expense.

You see my point?

They were putting in an oral maintenance thing.

You know, it was boom, boom, boom.

Well, that's what we did.

Okay, what the vote happened is, remember I reviewed all those costs with you, but it's an incredible change in our suspension.

They've had to play, because I had asked them about what the costs were, and I asked the question.

And it's a pretty good chunk.

It's, I suppose, $50,000 maybe.

Why did you see that?

They have had to.

They've had to go in and make some changes.

Actually, there's a new review I did.

Remember I said, put it in the place where it costs the least.

Right.

And they tried to do that.

And even then, it all worked and so forth and so on.

The costs go up, and he said he had a note indicating that we would pay $13,000 that we start to touch it.

We cannot have a situation where somebody at GSA or somewhere or somebody else doesn't.

It's an absolute, doesn't matter how much, it's an absolute nightmare.

It cannot work.

The cost, except for what is honestly, can be honestly,

you know, written on this having been an improvement that hasn't been made anyway, but I know the backers on it.

Okay, it has to go back 30 minutes.

It has to be contributed.

Now, when we get to do that, I mean, it's a, it's a small, uh, it can never be contributed back to your son.

Sure.

You see, we've got all that problem with these, or not that problem as well, you know, with these

They've done a lot of other things.

I mean, pretty things.

I don't want to go into that one.

But I think, okay, you'd already talked to them about it.

There's plenty to do.

Let them raise the money.

I think that since it's going to be in America that much, let's find out what it really is.

But I don't, don't, don't, the maintenance, don't get us in a position where we, we're honest with them, answer.

And some guys have been answering for months about this thing because it's a little, kind of a small thing in the state that we don't need to make it.

We must not go through this budget fight.

And we've just got to start here.

And if it ain't the vision that we're putting something in, at a time we're asking everybody else to come back, we'll be absolutely done with it.

So, and don't try to knock Rex down.

Don't say, what is it?

What is the cost?

Give us $100,000.

What the hell is $100,000?

That looks like way too much.

It's not right at all.

What do you think?

What does that do to me?

Yeah.

They'll contribute.

I think Annaberg could be one that could participate in it, for example.

Annaberg and Avalon, perhaps.

Same thing.

Equipment development.

The cost, it's going to be, you've got to get on this very fast.

Don't delegate this down.

I don't want to talk about it over and twice.

I think you'll have to handle it yourself.

So the tenants, it's up in the industry.

They'll never have to be ready.

If somebody didn't charge you, after you get the cost, they charge you.

Let me, let me talk to Beattie and let, let Beattie and Bob do it on a basis that they're raising the money.

I mean, the point could be that you don't want him, you don't want the two of them to put up, because it is too expensive.

But that, uh, if they could just assemble a little group of friends of the president, and then Walter Amherst probably would underwrite the whole thing.

You know, and just check in.

I think he would.

And the, with the line dating that was given by Francis Preston.

So it's a historic present.

You may recall that's what the true valley has in that fire.

Now this one, this is going to be here by Francis Preston.

Pretty used to this kind of .

It's great way.

But I think first, we've got to get from Rex to Peter.

Now, he isn't too well.

He isn't coming over.

He hasn't got an organizer.

There shouldn't be any problem.

He's getting 100 quickly.

I mean, it's 50,000 or 100, but don't have any question about it.

I don't see any problem with the kitchen.

I think that's a normal improvement that should be made in the White House.

Because as you said, Rex started asking about that.

He said, well, the air conditioning equipment has to be replaced anyway because it's 10 years old.

And now let's be very sure that we're not going to have any bad questions or anything like that.

What about the kitchen?

I just want that contributed to, you know, I don't think you make a mistake contributing something like that because that's, nobody's going to question the essentialness of the kitchen and you just make the point that it had to be.

The White House goes through, and this is, they've got a budget for ongoing constant rejuvenation.

That's an old, old building that has, you have to keep doing things.

Same with this building, you have to, the air conditioning and the plumbing and everything else falls apart on a regular basis.

Now, any time, if you, of course, if we receive the law and somebody's gonna go out

I'm glad it started, but I'm not sure I've seen others.

I've heard some things over the right now.

We have to watch because of the outing, right?

And so, in our bad, whether we worry one bit or not, we should at all.

I'm sure it would be nice.

It's a problem that they've got such terrible inefficiency in the work.

I just can't imagine how it would cost them if they got this.

They overdo everything.

It's just unrollable in the work space.

Well, see, that's the other thing.

Anytime you make any change, they use that to take advantage of it to get it.

And Rex said the problem was the storage and all that sort of thing.

And I said, why the hell would you want to place the storage there?

They stored the air for me, so there's no difference in ground areas as we look.

Now that, to me, is pretty ridiculous.

Who is the head of GSA?

Is he going to ask the new and dumb sense?

Ask us.

Well, it can't be fine.

A place where we can store the chairs and everything else closer to the White House.

If it's probably not GSA that does it, then it's our service.

That's Ron Walker, and I need you to do better.

Storage.

What's the... Park Service runs that house.

GSA runs the offices.

Yeah, we need some storage space.

That's what we want to get a hold of.

Now, around here, very close to this White House, within five minutes, there's bound to be a building where we can store the stuff.

You know what I mean?

The, uh...

The WREX doesn't know enough about the WREX.

But what airport?

What airport?

to go to the National, I suppose it's too far.

They have a huge storage, but they should have a place or, it must be something like over at Fort La Mer, which is, you know, right over here.

But there'd be a building in here.

What are they talking about?

I don't even know what level, I suppose it's mostly the tables, the chairs.

Oh, I see.

All the things like that.

I think that they ought to talk to him about it.

I mean, he carries things out religiously, but he naturally raises some of these problems.

I remember one had a dinner and said that the other day.

And I think we ought to be able to get some storage space.

I agree with you that we can.

He's probably doing a tool of it.

There's no cost, whatever, the entire cost.

As was the .

You got to get the .

Coming back to the gridiron thing, what is your, what's your feeling about whether we should try to have another event?

Or whether we just not go?

I don't want to go to Florida.

I think it's unnecessary.

They can't go to Florida or something.

I just hope they can't do it.

Why is that better than being here?

You're here, you're right across the street from me, practically.

I do question, I don't think y'all have a worship service the next morning.

They've already seen the magicians, huh?

For the 11th?

No, they wouldn't have yet.

Well, it's a good one to have a worship service there.

You can take care of the publishers, which I like to do.

It's a neat way to count it.

You just don't go to the dinner.

If you didn't go to the dinner, that's what I mean.

That's the problem.

It's complicated by the government in one way and not another.

Well, not because of the recent , but because as Henry played the best, all they did was they gave him an opportunity to .

He had nothing to lose, and everything to gain.

He certainly couldn't win the war.

I had nothing to gain.

Some people did not have a lot.

But he'd be there the first year.

He might just be smart and be gracious, which requires me to return, which he does not deserve.

Or he'd be ungracious.

In any event, with the attitude of the press, the press will all report that his reception was better.

You know, it's all that kind of crap.

We don't collect this, I think, but it's not always a possibility.

I don't think so.

But I should not go to the river.

I'm just like us correspondents.

I wouldn't have another event though.

Well you could have an event, I agree.

I mean, when you don't have just some friends, man, you shouldn't even do that.

Looks like you're trying to upstage anything you do.

This is the thing, you're trying to draw attention away from the computer, and I think you should just be, just play love.

Either just go to Camp David, or just stay here.

Well, I think they usually do Camp David.

I mean, I think that's .

And you just want to go to the grave and see what the hell's the story.

If I put it on the white house correspondents, I mean, I don't understand any question.

That's the larger group.

in a very, very small teapot because there is, well, hardly anybody that makes any difference.

I agree with you.

It's an enormous small teapot, except for the present time it is made somewhat larger because of the, you know, figuring out the press relations and the rest, and because of the fact that it's quite different than what it normally is.

Why would it be better not to have it?

I think going to Florida, that's the only way to do it.

I mean, I've just been there.

Well, that's kind of bad, too, because, you know, you take the press down.

That's right.

You shouldn't go anyplace that takes the press away.

Force the press down.

That's an attractive point.

See, they don't do it at Camp David.

I can already say that.

But they, you know, they put a fool up there, but those are people who wouldn't go there anyway.

I mean, I think that's correct.

And we're not, there's not many press people there.

White House press.

So I think we're in good shape to do that.

We'll do it again the next day.

I mean, you can trip-chop us the next day at the Chills Library.

Well, we're not anything you don't conflict with that.

That's in the afternoon, isn't it?

Oh, that's the thing for the wives.

That's at 4 o'clock or something.

That's right.

Okay, plus.

I'll get this out of the way for the wireless response.

I thought I saw something with the detective that I was writing letters, but I didn't.

I haven't seen any of it yet.

I just don't know.

I haven't seen any letter that I have signed.

Let me check.

Because we've talked about it.

I don't think you are running like it.

You're sending the corsages to the wise.

It was a letter.

It was.

A letter to the people.

I just got a check.

Working.

Vietnam.

And you asked for a letter for MIAs.

Once it was done, they'd take it from the U.S. You'd better get it to your court on that.

Yep.

And let me see what the letter is.

It seemed to me that the letter should go to the U.S.

We've got the new letter writer.

She's not here yet, though.

Nobody else.

Price might be on a variant until you get the new letter writer.

That's a huge price that I guess you have to pay.

get from the really honest, good list of those groups that have supported us in Vietnam, I'm referring up to.

They have sort of a list there.

I'd like to see the list kept to those who return, whether I should write a letter.

I mean, I may want to write a letter at this point.

As a matter of fact, just to sort of get me a list, and then take them, tell them to,

prepare a letter to those people as a form.

They can pick the letter I wrote to the law general, and if you get some of that, you sort of use the substance of that as a basis for it, and that could be set around like this.

And that's about it.

I don't know if you'd better write those MIAs or if you can't be damn sure that

No, you don't until it's over or something.

They're all, we talked that through.

You said you wanted to send one.

You didn't want to do it.

I think we're going to wait until everything was cleaned up, and then you write one saying that you dictated some lines on it.

Yeah.

So I think the letters of appeal about you should go now.

Okay.

I mean, as they come out.

And so if you get any more on that, one very later here and so forth, maybe we'll have it run out.

We're going to have to wait for the day tomorrow.

No, what is it?

I thought, I thought

who was ordering that my airplane should be parked so the television cameras couldn't get them off the airplane.

I, of course, had absolutely no idea what he was talking about.

As you know, the whole transport without the covers and everything.

Well, apparently, they parked his airplane and it came up in such a way that your airplane blocked out the entrance of his airplane from the television cameras.

He thought that was a plot on my part to make sure he wouldn't get on television when he returns.

If you thought about me on television, just tell me.

So I've got a tactic now.

What I do is blow.

I pick up something and slam it down.

Face around the office.

And then he backs off completely.

I said, Henry, if we didn't want you on television, we sure wouldn't play Mickey Mouse.

He'd end up parking your airplane behind the president, for Christ's sake.

Don't flatter yourself.

I don't think anybody gets in a suit that long.

Probably, of course, the irony of it.

I said, Henry, for Christ's sake, here you're coming back from China, from Japan, from North Vietnam, with monumental accomplishments and some monumental problems to be dealt with, and the first thing on your mind is to come charging in here and complain that your plane was parked in the wrong place.

He said, yeah, I did.

That is what I came in here about many times.

It's a real problem, which was he didn't want you to meet with the congressional leaders.

Oh, I don't understand.

Well, that's probably right.

If you have to get into China, it's better to go to the bottom and talk about it.

He's more analogical in that way.

He used to be good at that, but this morning, it would have been, you know what I mean?

It's not all that important.

It doesn't make any sense.

I had an idea very large on the China business.

I said, Henry, what you've got to face up to is that although China is a big story and all that, the matter of concern here is aid to Vietnam, not China.

I said, you've got to face up to the fact that you've got a very real problem there.

The inclination of this Congress is going to be not to provide aid to Vietnam.

No, it's interesting to me that I noticed in the news summary today that several GOP senators and congressmen have urged me to stop my stand on MSU.

I hope they really are, but would it not be kind of you to get that bull out of me, or even these guys out of me?

But I mean, at least a part of it are .

I don't really, yeah, it's probably, you don't want to put it all on, just a, yeah, just a fortified .

What do you think?

I wouldn't put us through .

No, sir, I can never put that on.

But it doesn't do us any good at this point.

between his own .

Anyway, yeah, I think we could put .

Yeah, I mean, yeah, that affects us back.

I know we can, by the way, that's actually what that meant.

I'll leave that on us, you know what I mean?

I think we're gonna have more seizures now, right?

I don't know, whatever's proper.

I now got the due visit for the 7th or the 1st of April.

Oh, okay.

I don't need the exact date, but I'm keeping the period from about the 30th of March to the 7th of April open.

Okay, you want to go that week better than the last week in March?

I can't remember the last week in March, I guess.

It's obvious that you don't want to hear it until after the, you know, everything is done.

And I'll want to do something probably on the press meeting after that.

Right.

So then I'll, then I'll see you in the next week when Henry's going to be in touch with them.

Get a date with them.

It will definitely be in San Juan.

I don't even have to charge anything.

So we're going to have to do it again.

And it would be fine with you.

We planned to be out there, but in particular, in this case, we're handling it quite differently than you have and also the same with our staff.

Our plan is actually to be there as soon as we can.

The weather is decent.

If I feel like to stay for a week, but if on the other hand there are problems that arise here, or if I, whether, you know, I don't feel good or something like that, and I want to be able to stay and come back, the way that I will announce it is that I'm going out there for that visit.

I will have a visit and then I will extend it day by day thereafter.

If you can take it that way, you can handle the whole thing.

And if you don't say, you know, I'm not going to visit.

We're going to stay this long.

Are you going to stay longer?

I don't know.

It depends on what happens.

And then my view would be to stay.

And then nobody from the staff, therefore, would be negative.

Or the press.

They go, well, now we've got a few days and make plans.

Correspondence is Saturday, so you have to come back Saturday.

Or they will be in.

Good.

So you could stay there the weekend.

That's the reason I'm saying private information, right?

Even the week, the week is going to be cut free.

That's a great change.

So, come back on Sunday.

Sunday, sure.

Okay.

Small island.

It's a very good position.

He's got some feet.

But he wants to resign, he does want to.

He said, I suppose he promised not getting in, but does he like personal privacy?

I know that he probably is wanting to come in, so he couldn't get in.

Therefore, this is a hell of a good job for somebody.

Sure.

It's a hell of a good job.

It's prestigious.

I don't want this to be handled, basically.

I have a study, but I don't want it to be handled on the basis of .

This is a case where, you know, it has quite a democracy over there.

This is a case where somebody that's interested in international business and so forth.

We had some candidates on that basis earlier, because they thought Henry was leading, and they weren't sure he was.

I marked him on his letter.

I would see him when he returned from his Asian trip, which is in April.

He's done a good job, but Henry first, like so many of our old friends, just feels terrible need that he has to, and he hasn't given too much time, but...

It's sort of an annual thing.

We try to adjust it.

We try to adjust it to what we want somebody to do the job.

We get it done.

What was your evaluation of the, I don't know if it was part of the evaluation, but how were you rallying us today?

create much of a scurry.

They've got a fair amount of coverage here.

Not so much.

He's not a very big guy.

Not so much.

And it just, I really think rallies, the rally people don't realize it yet because they haven't found another way to decide what to do.

You recognize, hardly anybody else seems to, is that once you've done something, it doesn't do any good to do it again or to top it.

And you can't, you have to top it.

And when they had, now they did, we belittled it at the time, but they had a couple pretty massive demonstrations in this town.

They had that one, which was one hell of a massive demonstration in terms of numbers, and another one that was pretty rough in terms of demolition and activity.

And frankly, let's face it, how many did you say they had at the inauguration pitch council or more?

The best estimate is somewhere around 50.

They had quite a few.

Well, it's interesting that the media were prescriptive of something.

They really were, and I don't know why they didn't buy them.

I think the media prescriptives were very friendly with the reason because they realized that these things turn on folks.

just like the democratic invention you know they turn off the folks the other thing well that's right i think that's why the media the national media probably you see jesse jackson there yeah absolutely the rest of the same cast of ratty characters doing the same sort of

And they've got to find something in there.

You see, for example, like I said, I saw that one war arm guy, you know, from Vietnam, where it's against the war.

They're really fine.

One little girl would help with that.

me looking at her very, you know, she was, she was against the farm program.

There were a few others who said they were crossing the farm.

That's all.

But basically, the point is that the demonstrations will not go away.

The hatred is still there.

But now they've got to find something else to hate, and they've got to find a new way to do it.

But then they've got a problem, even so, with the demonstrations, unless they decide to go.

And that was the problem they were getting to.

They had to get more violent in order to get any attention.

Because 300,000 is about as many as you're going to get for any cause error they talk about.

So that's done now.

So they can't go by numbers.

They've got to go by something else if they're going to demonstrate.

It's pretty hard to go beyond that.

How are you coming, and I think maybe you better get me a report on this, on the letters to Congress on spending, what I call the Harlow-type operation.

I've noted that it's, I mean, who would be put in charge of that, for example?

Is that Peruzzi?

Is that, yeah, for coordination, right?

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to show you, but would you get a report as to, it seems to me that now the decade should begin.

And I'd like to get a full, I want a full press report on Bob.

We just got the hammer that hard.

We got the fucking John Earp thing.

We are running, you know, speeches and all the rest of it.

We've got to realize that congressmen are affected by mail.

They're getting mail out, especially.

We've got to get our mail in there and forward it.

And I think it's vitally important that you forward it right now, this week and the next week.

And the next week after, you know.

I mean, I'd like to have a couple hundred thousand going into the congress.

I don't think that anybody's in charge of it at the moment, apparently.

They may be.

They may be, but I don't think that we're doing a job that we could because are we here?

Maybe you've talked to Rudy about it, or maybe you've got a great hand on it, but Colson would never have done it twice.

And I think that this, you've got to sit down and go ahead and do a big test, come in and get a little Harlow and see how it's done, you know.

And, uh, and tenants.

Oh, Chuck started on this before he left.

Eddie's young, I mentioned to him.

I need to ask you about one thing.

I finally knew this news thing on Tuesday.

The next day, I went to Atlantic City to address the school teachers.

They are administrators of education.

It does not feel very good to me as a forum.

I mean, I tried to think of it, but look at it as I said it.

To me, what was important about the South Carolina stock and the Mayfair stocks, Mayfair was purely gone, something around here and there, was that we used the stock not for the purpose of the substance, but for the purpose of something else.

Now, you can't overdo that to achieve it.

So we can't go to Atlantic City for the purpose of saving a few people with a family.

At this time of year, there won't be any people.

We won't let everybody live in Atlantic City.

So there's no crowd.

The question is whether going before a bunch of cool down school people.

Well, their argument on it was that these are people that the president and the organization have been strongly supportive of, and that you will get a good reception from.

But you go in on the point was to emphasize the age of secondary schools instead of higher education, to sort of make the populace .

Now that, you see,

As a secondary school administrator, I don't know whether you're talking to the right people or not.

It isn't, basically, it's forgetting the right people.

The light always is irrelevant.

In all these cases, it's irrelevant, maybe, unless it's the governors, or mayors, new governors.

The point of this is whether or not a parity in that board is a good thing for Santa Monica.

It'll get on television.

I don't know.

The big auditorium in Atlantic City, the president will come in and he'll show you getting a good reception.

That's, is it probably true or not?

We don't know about the crowd as to whether it is reception good or whether we're going to run.

For example, this is not a time behind it.

We ought to look and frankly,

I'm running into a lot of genie signs, which you well could do when you get up to New Jersey or you're closer there than New York, but you know, it's just a hop, skip, and a jump.

And you get to find them.

I don't think it's a time to borrow any trouble.

You know, that's a ridiculous thing.

I dealt with it as I did.

We don't want to turn it down because they thought it up, but I just wonder, as you can see it in my house, if I could just be lifted here and do it, and we were sure that the audience was relatively secure about it.

We've got to come in.

It's pretty hard to tell how, on that kind of an audience, what you've really got.

You've got to hold on.

Although, you've got to assume that your chances are pretty good.

It's a national association.

It's a secretary school.

It's not a college administrator.

It's administrators, not history teachers.

And it's a way to talk to an educational.

Yeah, body.

You don't have any educational bodies.

You don't talk to them symbolically.

It's good for that people.

But so what?

Well, being more educational.

That's the point.

Not being more.

That's a way to be positive.

That's right.

And that maybe is a plus.

Yeah, that's the reason I consider it.

I just wonder how much the things are.

Yeah, absolutely.

These fellows that will spend all that money to get 10,000 assholes in here, or buses and so forth, are much smarter than you do just what those very, very few did in South Carolina.

I can take 30 people on a visit to the president,

and make them far more effective than 30,000 will be out here by having them in the proper place with their signs.

You know what I mean?

Because the media always will mention the fact, well, there were some, you know, and those signs have gotten them effective.

One person is just effective as a whole.

He has the right sign.

Question, in other words.

Of course, if you want it.

You aren't going to get a good crowd turnout anyway.

That's it.

So maybe the thing, if you wanted to do it, is just to helicopter from the airport right to the mall, which I think you can probably do.

I'm sure you can do.

This time here, you can just have a clear parking lot.

So that you don't have a wall in your place, but that doesn't mean that you can't have it right in front of you.

Yeah, you can still have a cluster house.

I'm sort of a rabbit.

See, it's quite different.

John should know this.

Of course, it's quite different from Columbia, or even from any other city you're going to at this point, where however many demonstrators you have, there'll be a hell of a lot more people there for you.

Now, here, you aren't going to get a crowd of people there for you out of the minor city at this time of year, you know, they start a deed.

Because you know, you've been there in the summer, it's a very sparse crowd.

There's not enough in sparse, but it goes very far.

Well, I'm just trying to analyze it.

The other thing I would suggest that we are considering, that they ought to get somebody to write the speech, the 1500 words, right?

I agree.

This is one that I should read.

If I go 1,500 words, it would be 12 minutes.

I don't have any real feel on that.

Do you want me to talk to John or somebody?

You should know something about it.

You should get a feel of it with John.

How does it get in here then?

The proposal from them was questioned, and they're the people who have

Well, I think what you should do before getting these information on it is better sit down before Steve brings them.

See, Steve wouldn't know anything about the group at all.

I think you'd better sit down.

Rather than have Steve bring any of the appearances, it's not just that all of your appearances are PR.

You know, anything else like Steve is where you know it's fun to be on.

I mean, whether you're counting P.O.

and everything.

Well, I doubt it on that one, whether that's anything.

But you see, the reason is this involves a decision on this P.R.

Yep.

This involves a... Now, the other thing is that, uh...

I didn't think he'd want to do it, so I didn't.

Well, I don't mind doing it at all.

I mean, I'd like to do it, but we think it's useful.

I mean, it's useful, we do.

But I just wondered if he thought it through.

I think everybody's thought it through.

And just, you got the governor's dinner that night.

That was one of the best comments the day before.

or get to the point where we get to do something on the train.

But the other thing that I'd like to get with you this afternoon sometime, if you're ready, is getting on to the stormy schedule a little more.

See, John has, I've told him from the plane that I want to know what these speeches are going to be like.

Are you ready?

He's just bribing a hell of a ton of people.

He's got a schedule on that.

Human resources we're supposed to have to you tonight, but we'll be taking it Friday through Sunday.

And the next one's the following.

Then there are successive Sundays from then on.

Community development for following Sunday, crime and drugs for following, and structured government for following.

And the plan is to have a minute.

early part of the week to review and then they go up to the Hill on Wednesday following that.

Well you see we've got those, we've got those, we've got a few other, we've got a ton of them there.

Well that's all of these, we're pretty much on board with this.

I'm really having to think through those again and all of it, now that we've whittled down some of what we really will be doing.

Well, you've done... You've done pretty well on that.

What's your feeling about the... As far as...

I wouldn't go, because I don't think we need it, and I don't think it's important to take a risk, taking a chance on what you might need.

You've got so much else going at this point that...

John feels strongly that we ought to emphasize some positive things, and I agree to that.

Well, that's, I can understand his point, and I think it was a very important education.

It's a very good thing to emphasize.

I think education's a hell of a lot better thing to emphasize than the environment, frankly, at this time.

And especially secondary education, where you're talking to people.

That's right.

And they are.

But one test for this, basically, is we're going to compare speech.

And I say 1,500 words, absolute minutes.

Yeah.

That's what it's telling me, so I can see what it is.

Yeah.

And I'll decide if you want to keep it open.

This is Wednesday.

I should have a speech by Friday, right?

Right.

I'll take it with everything.

Okay, I'm going to check out the...

Why don't we just say it's the 7th, 9th, 9th, or whatever?

Oh, you're going to do the radio?

Why don't we do the radio in Camp David?

Live.

Fine.

Yeah, well... We're starting to get each other.

No, it is for Sunday.

The plan is to do it for Sunday, do it, to tape it ahead, tape it on Friday.

I didn't mean that.

For Sunday a.m. at least.

Basically, do it Saturday, do it Saturday before, so you make Sunday papers.

You can do it either way, make Sunday papers or Monday papers.

So you can do it on Saturday, the 10th day.

You can do it, do it in the afternoon, 36 o'clock.

Yeah, I don't think that we, this is why we don't need, we don't need to be on television every time we do these things.

You know, I think that's not much of a picture anyway.

But why don't we do it at the end of the day at 6 o'clock at night?

Why not?

It's not the effort.

It gives me a reason to be out there.

Yeah, I don't think you need a reason.

I don't think, I just, this is bad, though.

Is that where it was?

I was thinking you could go up Friday night since you have to be done on Sunday morning.

All right.

I'll go there on Friday, Friday night.

And I'll cut the television, the radio thing.

Why don't you tape it so you don't have to screw it on.

All right.

Well, I'll tape it the second I make the radio.

Tape it Saturday morning.

Yeah.

I'll tape it Saturday morning, then we'll send it down and release it Saturday evening.

All right.

I don't think there's any problem with that.

I don't think there was anything magic about it.

So then I'll feel free.

I think they did give me the time to go right through there.

See, I was fine.

That's, well, that's why I wasn't at Friday, was just to get, I was trying to get everything cleaned up.

See, because what's happening here, they didn't keep Saturday clear, so you couldn't go at Friday.

Okay, now the other thing I was going to ask on this thing.

I, for the people that could do this, I just want to be sure we understand what we're getting ourselves into for it.

This breakfast was a subject we reckoned to deal with depression.

Now, that I recommend against it.

This now has reached a point where I've done the deal with depression for seven, and some of them, I'm sure, will be for this thing.

The supporters, I think, and also,

They will all be at either the church or an evening.

That's right.

Won't they?

Yes, sir.

We'll all be at the church or an evening, one of the two, correct?

And all of us are meeting with them on a program that Dennis is doing.

How?

Getting us into it, but I don't think you ought to do it.

And who's pushing it?

Whose recommendation is it?

It was everybody else.

No, it was Dennis' recommendation, and, uh, was there any support from his folks?

I don't know.

I'd like to get his name on it.

He's almost a product of our membership.

But at the point I wrote on it that I didn't think I should do it, I thought it was overdoing it.

If we do this, if we do this, you realize that the only reason I sent it in is because I thought you might have had some reason that you were raised with some hope for what he's doing.

The general reason that I do it is why do the freshmen so that they'll be on the team when they're asked.

You know, the more you can do it, the better.

So they've got to come in and let the rest of us carry it for a while.

But Bill's doing that.

It's a hell of a good idea.

He's running us up now.

He had an argument to do charter marching SOS this morning, which was also good.

He's got me doing the freshman class.

uh there yeah i'm not i made some money next week that i'd go up and do it and he's trying to work henry into doing some of those henry should do them yep but more importantly john should do them very good

But let some of these people do this stuff and let them get to know the rest of the White House.

They don't have to come and sit around the president all the time.

And it's a little awkward for you to get a whole group of congressmen on to have a substantive discussion.

Well, I was thinking, Bob, of this.

All you did, every time that there was, I had a briefing on everything, every time you have done it.

It seems familiar to me.

a singularly not productive effort.

Now, it really is.

You know, when we had our loyalists in, when we had the others in, they say they go back and hang on to this letter, and I love the other one.

I personally, I had understood, I had understood that you would bump them forward or whatever it was, that you finally came down hard on the thing, early on in the Senate, have them down socially, remember?

So that's why I went for this.

It was a terrible burden, though.

Every Sunday for four weeks, you know, we're stuck there in Washington trying to get them out of the way.

Now, they would never have done that if I thought we were going to start this.

If I knew the professional attitude, if I knew that if I was going to argue the truth so that they would be able to answer, if I knew the question, Christ, I haven't done a lot of charter marching.

That's right.

I haven't done a lot of the question in three years.

There are a hell of a lot of other guys out there that just feel pissed off as hell.

Well, why can't you do us too?

I just think it's going to be an insatiable appetite.

Now, we said, maybe that's what we want to do.

And we do.

Do we want to have more breakfast?

No, I wouldn't.

Oh, Christ, I don't agree with that.

50 each.

40 each.

See?

I think you're better off to, to do the kinds of things that, you know, the spot sort of stuff.

Now, I, I also heard that he has done a little bit, that, uh, uh, he doesn't talk, but I mean, he's a good guy.

I mean, he's a, he's a yacker, and he's, he's, he's an old head of us, but I wouldn't, I can't let him make a G6 like that at all.

But that, in a way, uh, running Diane on a little thing like that, I think, from time to time, I mean, Diane tries to, you know,

like you're doing for Wagner.

Now that, that to me is very much worthwhile.

We've done maybe more than we need to do for Wagner, but he's done well for us.

But letting him go and his party who aren't clean is just damn important to him.

And I do.

We ought to do some of those things for our accomplishment, Senators.

That doesn't bother me a bit.

Well, it might be.

We ought to do it in person.

Yes, I think the congressional house is all right, but not what we're doing.

So if you can't sign up, if you've got anybody you want to work with, we're out with it for business.

And then if the people pass, they're going to come in.

Steve has always got, I'd say he's got three hours a week, you know, where he does bring anybody in if we need to.

Some are important, some are not.

But that, I think, is good.

And let opinion come in and talk through it.

And I just sort of feel that when you sit down and have a hard time with oppression, I don't think it's worth it.

Because I know that it's going to have to be extended to the other side.

Well, of course, then, in any way, I... Well, of course, basically, it's like...

I mean, you can't take the same...

It isn't even as good as having Divine bring his conservatives in or something, where you can take a particular line with them.

So then you've got to get back, why don't you have the Vines Conservatives in again?

Why don't you have the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

And, of course, I know why you're afraid of them, but it's a constant battery.

And why don't you see the Congress party?

I think that the LMR can't really do well.

Plus, let me say that you can stack that up in such a short period of time.

It's a mistake.

Because then you create...

I don't think that it's a mistake to get this once around.

Oh, yeah, this once around.

That's basically the congressional perception from the LMR.

Exactly.

Plus, it, at the start of the term, the start of the new Congress, shoots down for a little while, and it doesn't last very long, but at least it shoots down that, you know, my wife has been in the White House for years, or I never get over to see her, I haven't seen the President since I've been here, or whatever it is.

You get all that kind of crap done for everybody.

Then, it starts doubling up, which is what this would do.

And he probably had an impression at once that this is their second shot at it, where he, he, he, it was social, it wasn't, they wanted it.

I know, I know, it was substance.

You can't do substance with a group, with a group of more than three or four people.

Well, they become, basically, whenever I go to even a larger leadership meeting, you get the sensitive areas, and whack, they go up, and they don't know how to interpret it.

That's right.

You know, they say the wrong thing.

Right?

Plus, I think it's better, and Bill's sort of struggling with his own strategy by asking them and coming to you, it's better, let them get used to talking to the side, contact with some of the White House.

You've got a lot of stars here, play those off.

That's a big deal until they get to know John Irvin, and you know, it sounds ridiculous, but I would think Congress couldn't care less, but there you go.

That thing, I'd go up there and go,

12 of them have called, and virtually all of them have written very nice letters, which I think is terrible, except their first ones.

Letters have to do to tell them all.

Sam, I see that.

Well, you can tell them a lot of the inside of things.

Tell them about it, and also give an indication.

One of the points you ought to make is sometimes, sometimes, you have to let them understand that this president has done more in terms of

in relation to the Congress and with anybody else.

I do make that point.

I do.

How many events we've done, how many speeches we've made, and how many we're going to make, and good God, it's unbelievable how much.

The load is terrific here on the history directory.

You could, it all ends up, as we were saying, and John really asked me, you know, only, this guy only cares about what happened to him.

He couldn't care less what you did for that guy or how many times you've seen everybody else.

So that would be the common call to do it wherever he wants to be.

Yeah, he, well, it's a little strange how he originally called, just checking in, said he would like this.

He said, yeah, we'd love to see you for about 10 minutes.

But now he left another message while I was out saying, if I can work on it for Dr. Hammer to see the president, to call him whenever he wants.

He had called me a week ago, raising the question of whether Hammer could see you.

He wanted to see you report on the threshold.

He is representing us.

Hammer now is representing us.

uh, frankly, a private interest to do with the Russians.

And I, and John represents him, I'm sure.

I just can't get into him.

I told, I told him, I said, that's a real problem.

I said, I can see John, but I can't see Hammer.

He said, I know it, and I'm not urging it.

And, and he said, there is no problem that he doesn't see him.

I just thought he might want to see him curve, you know.

Because he's kind of an interesting guy.

And that's what he's after.

I kind of said, I know exactly what...

will come into play.

So, that was the follow-up.

Now, I'll have to go back to .

I wonder what the hell is happening on this political thing.

I'd go back and say, if the President wanted to see you, but you know, there is a problem with Dr. Hammer, and I think we ought to pass that by.

Well, he can just say that he ought to talk to him.

I think I should not see Hammer, because there's just too many others that are .

I don't know what you can say if I can't see Hammer.

I cannot see him.

I can see Connelly always, but not him.

I had an hour of him before.

I don't suppose there's any way for Connelly and you to have heard any more about his political life.

No.

I can just ask him.

Well, let me say that.

See, if he'd like to come in, I'd like to talk to him.

But I just didn't mean to.

He had a 2 o'clock appointment, and then he said, I think he's going to call me after he's done that.

He was saying that I feel like I've got something at 3, something at 4, 4.30 at night, 4.30 or earlier that night.

Good.

Because I should see a doctor.

Well, I was, I had come to the same conclusion in the freshman, but I didn't want to turn it down.

Without, I don't know.

That is another kind of an event, though, that you should bring in and not see the others.

You just want to have the others.

I asked her, okay, that kind of event, but don't bother with the others.

Now, you've got a minute of my time.

I own you some of those.

Well, some of those, though, I still, I'm gonna put, put a note on, wipe my pen on it that I don't, you know, I'll keep, give you a view if you want it, so you got that.

Okay, well, I, I, I think that's right.

I'll give two of those.

I'll bench instead of writing, and that'll do it.

Well, we'll try to keep a few other people separate.

We'll try to keep Henry from the check here.

That's an amazing thing.

I'm not even surprised.

Like a dove.

He's just out here panning.

We've got the other side of the thing.

That's something.

You really think he thought that was true?

I, you know, I...

That's the kind of thing with anybody else you think he was kidding.

The funny thing is that a guy that can think as, as intellectually, as broadly, and as perceptively as he can, that can elevate himself to the heights that he can, could let himself, bring himself, I mean, that to me is so degrading.

I can't imagine how the guy could do it even if he felt it.

But that was more important to him than all these questions of when the press conference is going to be, when we know how we stack up these things and all that.

He probably was thinking about the press conference.

wire and so forth and he had some thoughts but we got the wire in a tendency that we were on a different track because we were thinking about vietnam and he was thinking about china it was just i thought about that military aid thing

I think that the better thing to do, the best thing to do, is you can't be too sure on anybody else.

Brennan is a certain quality to me, and he's so acceptable to the family and the rest that I think we want to make him the age that I want to promote him to lieutenant colonel.

He'll be a military aide and that's that.

And let the service of grace help, I don't care.

I don't know, I don't want a stranger in that job.

I guess we can't, I wonder if we can do a jump promotion, a full colonel.

He's about to go lieutenant colonel anyway.

I'll make him a full colonel and I can jump him if you're not damn right.

We oughta just go make screwing up at the Marine Corps, but he hasn't given it.

He's gonna leave the Marine Corps anyway.

All right, make him a full colonel.

He should be a full colonel.

And could it help us re-question you some time?

He went to get a two-star, you know, while he was here, so we, there was not...

It seems to me we ought to be able to make Brennan a full colonel now, and then maybe give him a star just before the end of the year.

Right, right.

For the last year or something.

Okay, but that's it.

That's the decision that's made.

Okay, I didn't do anything on Reisner.

I was waiting to let it settle down a little bit.

I think he'd be fine, but I think that making one out...

But you don't know.

Picking one out...

would be a problem.

Second, he's been gone a long time.

It's harder to adjust.

You couldn't handle him.

But the main thing is we know where he is.

He has family.

He's a great guy to have around.

He makes a hell of a good appearance.

He's a done-it-all guy.

So that's that.

See, I've got to have that kind of guy.

I think he ought to strengthen.

I'm not sure how far these guys can work out.

I don't know.

I don't think the Navy guy is very strong.

I mean, they're all nice folks, but I don't know.

How do you know?

It doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference.

It doesn't, but I think we can do better.

I think Larson was better, the first Navy guy we had, but he wasn't good enough.

It might be Brennan and Coffey were the best, were the two really good men we had.

How about the new Army guy?

The new Army guy doesn't send me.

He's quiet.

Fairly efficient.

He's not, well, he isn't a Brennan-type guy.

I'd like to get a crew of Brennan-type guys.

Guys that we can use.

Like you can use Jack.

How can you move these people, or how will you move this one?

Well, the, uh, not the Army guy.

The Navy guy moves pretty soon anyway.

The Army guy we may be stuck with for a while.

We can make a change.

We'll do it carefully, you know, wait, work it out.

I just think we want to have people who have this experience.

I'll listen.

Maybe, though, I'd let him move just as soon as his position is where he can move.

Fair enough.

Yeah, I had a little stroke off that head when he was up.

He wasn't.

And Brent feels the same way.

He doesn't feel he's like that.

He's a greatly fine man, but he's just on his dish.

Well, he's a little, he's not a button.

He's not a sharp button, Brent.

He's not quick.

That's right.

He is a big guy.

He's pretty, he's got good political attention to his side.

You know, he didn't know what, and I was going to teach a hell of a good appearance, uh, basically.

I think he did better now.

And we should try.

As the Taylor-Flatt, uh,

Well, it subsided some, yeah.

But I've got to say, there are those who, I've been trying to reach him to, I had a long talk with them, and I get them completely all right.

Oh, yeah.

Christ, you ought to know what we're talking about.

I put that in the letter.

I mentioned the thing to Rose.

I mean, to him about Rose telling me, you know, that he was disappointed or something.

So I think Rose misunderstood me.

He said, I didn't.

indicate that I had hoped there was no feeling that I had done something wrong.

So I went overboard on that.

He said, well, that's the only question I had.

He said, this is what I wanted to do.

He said, you should know, and I think he did, that two years ago I put in for a transfer to an outside post in a downgrade.

in rank, because I thought I had to, in order to stay in his rear thing, I had to make a move out of presidential protection.

That's all I've done.

I also had a long talk with Kaiser today, and to get squared away there, make sure he understood the basis of all this.

He is a dumbed-down type of guy.

He's completely

And I also found out, which, and Kaiser confirmed it a little, sort of squeezed it out of the record, but the Taylor problem, at least part of it, is that both Boggs and

Raul are very strongly anti-Taylor, which I have not known.

And if there's something you can talk about, I don't care.

What Kaiser said is you may have ordered, or the intent may have been, or even the trigger was to move, may have been to move Taylor up.

But the only way you can move him up is to make him an assistant director.

And just remember, there are only three assistant directors, and that means you've got to move one of them out.

And the three of them could have gotten together and moved in somewhere else to, you know, purposely screw them up.

Yeah.

The thing we don't realize, and Kaiser said, let me explain to you, and I'm not complaining, but he said, you know, I turned this job down.

I was asked if I would take it, and I thought I could, and I said no.

And the reason I did is because it is, in a sense, the end of a career in the Secret Service when you take that job because you become branded as a political appointment in a non-political service.

And Duncan saw that.

And Duncan saw it.

Taylor, I think, wanted to stay, apparently.

I guess.

I don't know.

Well, apparently, once he moved to Sacramento, he wanted to stay.

But before that, he didn't, because he had another one.

I don't know where he had it, but he...

I see that the latest thing on Watergate, they got, they got...

Colson's, Colson's beaded beard, tons of beaded beard.

So, his day, his day had already had that.

So, you know, there's nothing new about that.

It was in his testimony.

He picked up the leak on it.

Right.

You know, the point that I make about this, though, is that this got to show that Gray, Gray's got to be a teacher to me.

We've got to get the bill, then we can find this.

That one isn't the FBI.

That one is, uh, is, uh, see, the Post has the line into the Grand Jury and Justice Department affidavits.

The Time magazine has the line into that.

Oh, yeah.

Well, we'll get that served out.

We've got the Senate doing it anyway.

Trying to get out ahead of them, I guess.

Well, we should have done it a long ago if we hadn't, sir.

Irvin's come up with a swift move on his general, on his chief counsel for his committee, while he's trying to get Ken Keating, which weighing the alternatives may be the best bet for us, because he is, the next choice is, I'm trying to think of his name, I can't remember, a lawyer in New York

and a problem now that is a powering figure-type Republican ran for governor or something like that years ago.

Older man, old, old.

Okay.

And the third one is something new.

That's 20 is the worst.

What is 20 for?

It's a prestigious Republican trying to break himself up.

But 20 is not.

So, interruption will let it run deep.

Thank you very much.