Conversation 860-012

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John, how are you?

I didn't keep you in front.

No, sir.

How are you?

Good to see you.

Good to see you, too.

How have you been?

Fine.

I'll tell you, we, uh, I, uh, do a little closing, but I go down here.

Yes, sir.

I've been to Florida four times since, uh, the election in California.

We haven't had about three days of sunshine in the whole thing.

We just had a bad break.

The governor always has some coffee.

I have some tea.

Is that tea?

I saw him just outside.

Well, all right, we'll have tea.

And says, we're going to need to call.

I told her, we've got to go to Laura.

We're going to try to get her on the 7th of March.

She said that would be time to go.

Oh, sure, sure.

I don't know.

As a matter of fact, I won't be able to leave Washington now for four weeks because I have something to do.

Yeah, we don't have to do a lot of this and that.

this is the month we have to do the uh congressional well basically receptions uh probably this year we should have done a long time ago we have talked almost by accident

Their client, I had dinner with one of them here about two weeks ago, and I had talked to him since.

And we got into this thing.

I asked him what he was going to do, and he didn't know.

He talked to us about it.

And we've not made a deal at all.

He and I talked about it this Sunday, about the possibility.

We both agreed we did not want to even pursue it any further if you had any real reservations about it.

Not at all.

Let me ask, let me tell you that I haven't talked to him about it, but I think it's interesting that you do.

He had talked to me about what he was going to do, and he said that John Mitchell had spoken about it on up there.

And frankly, I am a pro-Johnist, but I advised him not to.

I said, first, I said to him, if he associated with Mitchell and stayed in office here, I said he would always be sort of a second man, and he can't be in that position.

He's an attorney general.

And I said, and also knowing that they are a firm, I just don't like it.

So I think that's the other hand.

And I felt that I could make some other association.

The only problem that I see from your standpoint is to what extent the fact that he has been an attorney general

It only inhibits you in terms of the matters which the Justice Department is handling.

Which he handled.

Yeah.

Which he handled.

It sure did.

Well, I mean, as a member of the firm, it wouldn't inhibit you.

No, it would not.

Well, actually, you see, I wouldn't want your firm to get in the position you put me in.

I trust that.

No, no.

Well, it was very important.

I don't know if you have it in your trust department.

I guess we should.

Well, would that hurt you at all?

Now, he couldn't touch it.

You could just say that he disassociated from that and so forth.

But I personally, I can say this, that in terms of pursuing, I think my teacher, he's pretty popular around here.

He has very good relations.

He's honest.

I mean, he's taken the heat of it.

He doesn't go through all of it or anything.

cars were all means, we're in ITT, et cetera, et cetera.

But that's sort of one of the costs of doing business in the battle and so forth.

Water games are not much, but he's a little on that note.

But he happens to turn me well.

But my advice to him and you would be that if you were something else, you'd be a damn good association.

I think you'd be a damn good association because you think highly of him.

And you know, in a law firm,

I would say the only thing more difficult than marriage is the law firm.

It's got to be very personal, particularly at that level.

And if the guy is not compatible with you, it's awful.

They squeal about the percentages and the credits.

But we have a very harmonious law firm.

It's amazing.

We have 70 partners and 110 associates.

God, it's a huge firm.

We have over 200 lawyers this year.

We have five lawyers in London.

I want to point out to you here, as part of this thing, we're not only an ambulance office.

We're going to stand with a ton of people, tax lawyers, antitrust lawyers, federal power commission lawyers.

So we're going to start with about a million people.

Nobody can be a carpet walker without having a hell of a lot of Washington business.

How the hell can, how no company, the companies, live the silence of government?

You've got to have a tax, you've got to have a banking standard.

And I would just put it cold to the eye.

It's expected that the press will jump on anybody who's been in government and say, how the hell did you do this?

But I think the way they handle it is just crazy true.

I mean, if you don't take that, they're going to blame you sometimes.

He wants to live in Washington.

He doesn't want to live in Washington.

Another thing that's good about him, too, is he has his sights.

He doesn't play out the time.

He's not avaricious.

And on that note, you should protect him.

Because I was, I told him, I said, I said, Dick, I said, he was talking about what he was doing.

I said, you, he said, don't, that's good.

Remember, you're working on this.

And I will protect him.

But I would say, on that, you have to do it for him.

He's just married, so I don't know what the big stuff is.

I'll protect him.

I told him that I thought he ought to be remembered by our executive committee.

But the first day, I mean, I'm not sure.

That's true.

That'd be great.

There are about seven of us.

It'd be very hard to have a man who'd been an attorney general.

I'm not an attorney general.

He deserves it.

And so he'll come in with his higher percentage margin.

We haven't affirmed all of them.

Within one or two, I've got the highest of chance.

I've heard he'll come in.

Within my range of ability, he hasn't been around.

But I understand that.

And we'll give him a very substantial.

He can make it for it.

I told him very frankly, he can make it for it.

George Mathers said he'd

He said, come with me and you can make more than $1,000 a year.

Well, I don't think he likes some of the people, George, but he said to me, I know the type of practice George matters in.

I don't want that kind of practice.

He really wants to associate it with a good, sound, stable law firm.

And that's what he'd be doing.

That's what he'd be doing.

And also, it's another thing, John, about it for him.

I've been hired, really talking about this later, because, you know, I tell my son, if he opened it by himself, he'd just be, they'd just hire him for that.

Oh, yeah.

So he's been a person that's protected, shielded, absolutely.

I wasn't sure if we could guarantee him, give him any kind of guarantee, so he didn't feel like he had to produce a dime.

I said, I don't care if he don't produce one dime of revenue for a year.

Well, he'll work.

Oh, he'll work his ass off.

And, you know, it's not bad that Mitchell was in that other firm, because there are lots of cases where you have a complex, like taking a, because maybe he has El Paso or parts of it, right?

And then he'll say that it's Tennessee gas.

He could take it, but a lot of companies are taking it.

See?

Absolutely.

If you get a role from one firm, that makes sense.

It doesn't make sense at all.

And yet, the fact that two big friends are in the other firms means that when they do get something they can't handle, they can say, well, no, I can't.

I just want to check the client base to be a hell of a mess.

We didn't have to have that.

I was surrounded with the, I think you're absolutely right, getting some good young lawyers.

We would have.

How old was the client base now?

Fifty.

He's a great agent.

He ought to make, he ought to just do one hell of a job.

He can.

Hell of a job.

Another 15 years.

We're going to open the firm anyway.

Another thing, too, is this, he's, whatever happens in the political front, he just couldn't have a better operator.

No, that's right.

Boy, you know what I mean?

He's, we're going to get a nomination in 68.

He was nominated.

And that'll be, I don't know, we'll have notice, too.

God damn it.

Here he is.

I'll see if he's smart.

I said, oh my gosh, you hear him talk about shootings.

He just promised to take them.

I was in South Carolina yesterday.

How do you go, oh, you can't imagine.

Well, you almost knew no one else in South Carolina.

First time, you know, the governor introduced me.

He supported the governor.

I'm not enthusiastic like that.

He said, he said, he pointed out, this is the first time in the 300-year history of that state legislature, that great legislature, the president of the United States of America

Democratic president, South Carolina is a devoted Democratic state, and no Democratic president ever went to the downtown place in that place, you know.

But you see, that's because they took it for casual.

The Republicans didn't think they had a chance.

And then, of course, South Carolina is the most nullification-minded, because Andrew Jackson was born there, and he had to take the pass.

And then, of course, but believe me, you would have thought that they were cheering, you know, and they were really something.

That's great.

is when I decided to come here.

Of course, one thing that I had that really caught people was, I mean, of course, I'm prominent in the Black Lives Matter and so forth and so on, but that's when I first worked on it.

But one thing that I really thought was just beautiful and so emotional that I had never seen.

You should, if you went down the road,

God bless you.

God bless America.

We love you.

You know how they talk to them.

Unbelievable.

There's just something.

The people sort of emotional outpouring.

And when you stop to think what those guys went through, just think seven years without a heart attack.

Six years without that person eating, not rice, how it works.

They didn't, rice, rice is a luxury out there.

And they used to go around asking you to do that.

And then they'd come off that point and salute and say it's been an honor to serve our country, an honor coming out of your chief.

We don't prepare any of that.

I didn't know what the hell they were going to say.

It wasn't what you think.

God, well, the other people didn't make you.

more crying, you know, just, and of course it shook everybody.

My God, everybody glued to the television to watch these balls come off, and they kept making this energy, but God, it just tears you up.

And I mean, there's a reaction setting in, you see.

People are reacting probably more emotionally than they normally would to atone for their own lack of support in many cases before the war.

So if you think so, sure.

This is an atonement poem.

That's great.

That's fine.

That's a hell of a lot better than giving an answer.

That's right.

Which the others, what they want to do with the United States.

No, no.

We have our, we say, let me spend a moment, as you know, on all these other things and the budget that we have in our province.

But John, you having been in this position,

If we gamble this line at a budget of $268 million, it just goes through.

And we have our problems.

But I don't think I have a choice.

No, you have the, if you keep talking about saving money.

Taxes.

And taxes.

Taxes.

You're on the right side.

You think so?

Absolutely.

In spite of the special interest.

There's no audit.

I know, but they don't speak for anybody except to pay the police and hail a school trip attendant.

Yeah, but you look, for example, yesterday I saw that damn ragtag crowd in here, 10,000 people, Jesse Jackson and this stuff.

And to think that United States senators would go down and honor that sort of thing.

What did you do?

You know what I'm talking about.

Well, I don't know if you know what I mean.

The whole heathen, the Washington establishment, of course, and some of our own, the Republicans, are not the worst.

But they're saying we don't care about people at all.

And that's a cruel thing.

So we've

budget by 300% over the four years, 60-70% increase in the education budget, 70% increase in the health budget.

Now, what in the name of God is that?

Well, of course, you really ought to have somebody say that, Joe.

I did.

I did the speech today for the Mars release.

All right.

That's good.

I'm going to say it again.

I was constantly accused of being unconcerned about people who are cold and cruel and

Let me just tell you what I've done.

This is an unfair statement.

It's an untrue statement.

It's a different kind of statement.

Let me tell you what I've done.

Here's what I've done.

Now, just because I want to stop doing spending, they want to get out, especially if they want to do less and less.

I just need to do it again.

I'm going to do another press conference on Tuesday.

I think you're absolutely on the side of the vast majority of people who feel so.

How sure?

No question in my mind, but.

Well, we've got to keep the, keep it going, keep the, tell me about, let's just spend a minute on Jamaica.

The one thing I was concerned about, Dr. Beattie and Bob, about your, what about the government there?

I know there's a health and security problem.

Oh, I don't mean for me, but for your

I don't think that's true.

This is a different deal now.

The Jamaicans have had their independence for 10 years, Mr. President.

His wife is as smart as he is.

I went to spend the night with him about three weeks ago in Jamaica, in their Jamaica house.

He's very smart.

He knows his people.

He knows what, and he's not trying to push him too far.

And it's high.

But he's saying to all of our industries, he said, we don't want to take you over.

We have a way to operate you.

We don't want to extrapropriate you.

But please come help us over here.

I've got a bunch of them, John Rawlings and Pollard Simons and Al Coa, and we're going to start a cattle operation down there.

I don't want to, but I've got the head of an island beef packers going down there.

He's going to spend two weeks there.

I'm going to try to help him.

Just to get them self-sufficient.

Everybody that builds cattle helps the country.

That's right.

And this is all a man has for it.

But he's in control of that.

He's a very articulate fellow.

He's got some very smart people around him.

And you can go down there, and I guarantee you, I can go see him.

And just tell him that you won't come.

You don't need to follow a rule.

If you let him come over five minutes one time, it's a hell of a load.

And that would be the end of it.

Uh, and that's all it will be.

And there's no security in terms of the vessel.

I was thinking that, uh, the whole Caribbean concerns me, but NASA getting its independence, I think it's going to go to hell.

I mean, it will for 10 years, no good.

It'll go for 10, at least 10 years, maybe longer.

And unless we give them some help, it can all go.

Why is it that, and I don't know what the reason is, why, why,

Can we have a situation where Jamaica could, might not be on the state, that's probably reaching too far to associate with the United States on the border.

We need to do that quick.

Why don't we?

Why don't we do that?

We really ought to.

Marry me.

The reason that I raised that in an earlier conversation sometime ago, my island was yesterday.

And I've been trying to think, what the hell can we do?

Well, you can't buy them, I guess.

But the point is, John, the Caribbean is going to become a Red Sea unless we do something about it.

And I think the idea of Jamaica and Brampton and Nassau are the same thing, associated with the U.S.

They get the same space.

Now, of course, the objections here would be, well, welfare and this and that, and they're American citizens.

But look, I...

I don't think that's a real problem.

I think it's a hell of a lot greater problem if they go communists, no question about it.

What do you think?

I couldn't agree more.

Think about it.

I've talked to him about it.

Have you?

Yes.

What's he saying?

Well, he just, he would, I didn't go quite that far.

I talked to him about the possibility of special trade regions with the United States.

See, they're out of the European common market now.

But,

Sugar quota, my God, it's his lifeline, you see, because of gross sugar.

We can make special trade arrangements.

We can have a preparatory trade arrangement with the whole Caribbean.

Sure.

That's what we ought to do.

If they don't give you a trade, Bill, that you ought to have.

You like that, but you need to ask for it.

You know that I sold it.

I sold that to me.

Okay.

As long as we can go up.

He doesn't mind going down.

That's what you need.

You have to have it both ways.

But if you do this, you take off a lot of the import duties on some of the items.

There were too many people.

I don't think he heard this economy much.

Oh, no.

They don't produce anything.

Also, you know, listen.

You take work.

Let's just look at work for a minute.

We talked about unemployment in this country.

The baby was talking.

He said, run it out.

You can't get anybody to do the job.

That's what the Jamaicans will do.

The blacks in America won't anymore.

Neither will Mexicans.

Mexicans won't.

And the Cubans won't.

They're too smart to care.

So who's going to do the work?

Well, we can do that really.

Why don't you just scale up a little bit further?

And let's think a little about it.

Why not think aggressively?

I think you ought to have a common one.

I think we could have the same status with, look, Jamaica's got no business being a country.

Not at all.

Too big to be a country.

Now, Nassau's got far less of us.

There's only 2,250,000 people who have an army, an aid, an air force, a U.N. ambassador, an ambassador to the United States, an ambassador to Britain, an ambassador to Jamaica.

What in the hell?

Why?

That's too much money.

Don't you think so?

Just like these places of people.

First, they should still be in the British.

Why don't we develop the policy whereby they can be with us?

I really think we should.

And God knows, I hope, that you don't want to let anybody talk you into giving up any of the trust territories in the city.

No, I heard about that.

I saw your number on it.

You thought we ought to have sent Baruch.

I heard about that, yeah.

But whether you sent him or not, that's not all I'm critical of.

Just don't let anybody talk you into giving up a bunch of ground.

That's one of the reasons I'm trying to send that peace guard, because they've been working for him.

They sure have.

They're going to try to kick that the hell out of him.

The other thing is that we were trying to work it around so that they come down the side of the association.

And believe me, for that, for those who dance, make a little alliance, that to become a country is ridiculous.

We'd still have to support it.

And then, but they'd have to prove they were in the trouble of trying.

That we can't do it.

I know I don't know if I can do it at all.

Of course, it's rather remarkable how the liberals in this country press for that, press for it all the time.

And I understand most people are not captivated by what they think is a great ideological virtue.

One thing I can tell you, they're going to keep it until tomorrow at 11 o'clock.

I mean, we've announced it, but I don't communicate with you here.

We're moving them off in good shape with the Chinese there.

And privately, I can tell you two things you're having.

We'll announce tomorrow two American flyers down there will be released.

Right.

Second and third, Danny, remember, he's the CIA agent.

Yeah.

They've told us practically that after the 1st of July, if I write a letter, if you know what I'm saying, his mother said that they would give him a sentence and send him back to America.

Those are constant.

But beyond that, it's far beyond that.

The Chinese today are petrified about the regime.

They're also very fearful regarding the Japanese looking to the future, and they want even closer ties with us, so they are agreeing to something quite interesting.

Without asking or demanding a statement at this point that they will have no relations with us, unless Taiwan is unrecognized, we're agreeing to set up an office to be king.

for us and one in America and in Washington for them to handle trade, and that's very, very good.

Now, that will be a hell of an effect on Chinese-American functions.

It'll do the birth of Taiwanese a little bit.

It won't affect them at all.

But the other point is, though, it'll have a great effect on the Russians.

So this game is being played very well, I think that's correct.

In that connection, about this, I want to tell you another thing.

Joe and I have a very different view than he had previously.

I've talked about the pipeline before.

About the Japanese, I go to listen to the Japanese.

He now believes it's imperative that we, the United States, work with the Japanese on that because he says that the Japanese go in alone into Russia with the pipeline and the gas.

That'll make them too much under the control of the Russians.

So he believes in American foreign policy and their foreign policy, which is now identical.

They feel that our interests require that the Japanese and the Americans work together on that thing.

That's right.

That's interesting.

I don't think you know the background.

Well, let's go far toward the Shinkoku's project that Greg would give us.

Is that right?

Yeah, at least from South America.

Yes, this summer.

Pollard Simons and his wife and that and I have been talking.

We think in June, July, maybe July, August, we're going to take off.

He's getting a plane.

We're going to fix it up.

But we are thinking very seriously about taking two months just to go around the world.

Two months?

Two months.

What kind of a plane would he have?

Well, we don't know.

He's thinking about getting a BAC-111.

British aircraft, 111.

It was a jet plane that didn't fly in the ocean.

Yes, 3,000 miles.

Yes, that's right.

Yeah, that's right.

3,000 miles.

Sure.

And a Grumman 2 will fly.

Yeah, a Grumman 2.

We may go in a Grumman 2.

But we're thinking about this before it was taken off.

We're going to just go ahead.

Great many countries in the world.

Let me suggest I have two with us.

If we could possibly get it to China, they'll take anybody at least to China.

I'm sure it would.

A small thing, but it's very interesting.

You know, Western, some of the orchestras have been trying to get it to China for years.

But when he was there to join, I had a little typical Chinese grace.

I noted that the president likes Mr. Harmony very much.

who played us in our creation.

They said, we, if you'll mind, would like to invite Mr. Armadale to come to China as the first, because the President likes it.

Armadale, of course, is a great candidate, but he is probably, you know, most of these visitor people are not going to stop him.

He's probably the most going to serve you all.

He's always been a great support friend of ours, and he's a terrific anti-Russian, and he's got us.

But you see, the point is,

are very glad.

They know that I like him.

And two, they know he hates the Russians.

That's a very, very smart thing.

You will, you and I, and Father too, it's like, it'll be hard.

I mean, this is a great country.

But you just, what good is it?

You've got to see it.

Also, it's good that you can do it in terms of seeing it all.

I've been doing it.

My only piece of advice here

do it so that you aren't too damn rushed.

Right.

I'd go, if I were to be king, I mean, I'd plan, I wouldn't go somewhere there too long, so the entertainment goes back and forth.

But you ought to go on a basis of your agenda.

Like, we get to Hong Kong, it's about three or four days, and those days.

places that would allow us to get in and out of our house.

But China, you always find weak.

Well, that's weak.

If we can get into China, then we'll orient our whole trip toward China.

Absolutely.

Because we'd like to go to Shanghai.

And wherever they let us go would get anything.

Yeah.

Well, we'll arrange it.

You give us the time as soon as you want while writing a little note.

And you'll see quite a lot of hundreds

You're very kind.

Well, good to see you.

How's Allie?

She's great.

She is mine.

I don't know if it could be better.

We'd love to see you.

I just talked to the office and they said we have an invitation to come look at her for Lord of My Heirs.

Yeah.

Don't you?

I said, I want to see you next Thursday.

Well, that's about a third of the guys.

both very Jewish people that support us, you know, New York, Los Angeles.

So we wanted you there.

Good, good.

Appreciate that.

Don't.

She hasn't got any oil.