{"conversationCode":"861-018","tapeNumber":861,"conversationNumber":18,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-861-018","startDateTime":"1973-02-22T17:44:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-02-22T17:46:00.000Z","startDate":"22-Feb-1973","startTime":"12:44 PM","endDate":"22-Feb-1973","endTime":"12:46 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.);","description":"On February 22, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:44 pm to 12:46 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 861-018 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 861-18\n\nDate: February 22, 1973\nTime: 12:44 pm - 12:46 pm\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft.\n\n       Scowcroft's calls to Prisoners of War [POWs]\n             -Reaction to call\n                      -Mrs. Landon, Mrs. Holmes [?]\n             -POWs\n             -Support for President\n             -Adjustment to freedom\n\n       POW statements\n             -Press charges\n             -Roger Shields\n                     -Defense Department\n                     -POW statements\n             -Public reception\n\n       POW wife\n            -Reaction to call\n\n       The President's meeting with Henry A. Kissinger\n\nScowcroft left at 12:46 pm.","filename":["861-018.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Scowcroft, Brent G. (Gen.)"],"prevCode":"861-017","nextCode":"861-019","transcript":[{"start":0.41,"end":5.41,"text":"Well, I just wanted to ask you how you called and hit those two people."},{"start":5.45,"end":6.07,"text":"Yes, sir, I did."},{"start":6.23,"end":8.97,"text":"And they were very pleased."},{"start":9.81,"end":20.26,"text":"And of course, this is when it was almost unhinged, since he was so delighted."},{"start":20.28,"end":22.8,"text":"Apparently, the wife, there's a divorce apparently."},{"start":22.82,"end":24.14,"text":"There's a divorce, that's right."},{"start":24.64,"end":26,"text":"Well, it was very strong."},{"start":27.21,"end":34.59,"text":"He wanted you to know that the expressions of the POWs you had in your mouth were right in the heart."},{"start":35.41,"end":37.12,"text":"And that his brothers know the same way."},{"start":37.16,"end":46.1,"text":"And that he wants you to know that Grassroots America was behind this whole thing."},{"start":46.46,"end":49.2,"text":"He was on this road."},{"start":49.24,"end":50.44,"text":"There's other characters."},{"start":50.46,"end":50.7,"text":"My, my."},{"start":50.76,"end":52.98,"text":"OK, the"},{"start":56.59,"end":59.39,"text":"He said it's going very well."},{"start":59.85,"end":66.07,"text":"And, you know, there was a news report that some of their statements had been programmed."},{"start":66.31,"end":68.73,"text":"I mean, it's a wide inquiry."},{"start":69.25,"end":74.06,"text":"Roger Shields, who was a D&D man out there, he said it's absolutely not true."},{"start":74.42,"end":80.1,"text":"He said they knew what they wanted to say before I even talked to the head of the government."},{"start":80.22,"end":80.58,"text":"Why?"},{"start":80.74,"end":84.8,"text":"Because they all decided they're willing to say"},{"start":85.42,"end":89.72,"text":"I don't think those reports are getting off the ground."},{"start":89.84,"end":93.34,"text":"I don't think people believe that."},{"start":93.5,"end":94.6,"text":"I don't think so."},{"start":94.62,"end":98.32,"text":"I don't think they'll be the first to deny it."},{"start":98.5,"end":104.82,"text":"So the brother around the park, I mentioned the wife, drew me up the wall, wasn't she?"},{"start":105.02,"end":114,"text":"Oh, I mean, so she was just, she was on the line, and her voice was breaking, and she was very, very good."},{"start":116.69,"end":117.01,"text":"He's free now."},{"start":117.03,"end":119.39,"text":"He can come in as he frees the other one."},{"start":119.91,"end":122.78,"text":"He hasn't come yet, but he's free to come."},{"start":122.82,"end":124.45,"text":"He's dressed upon."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and General Brent Scowcroft discussed the positive reception to Scowcroft’s outreach calls to recently released prisoners of war (POWs) and their families. They addressed concerns regarding allegations that POW statements were government-programmed, with Scowcroft citing Defense Department official Roger Shields to refute these claims as unfounded. The two concluded that the public remained supportive of the administration's policy and that negative reports regarding the POWs were failing to gain traction.","topics":["Prisoners of War","Vietnam War","Public Relations","Brent Scowcroft","Defense Department"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-08T05:18:01.191Z"},"topicSlugs":["prisoners-of-war","vietnam-war","public-relations","brent-scowcroft","defense-department"],"audioDurationSec":130,"audioFiles":[{"file":"861-018.mp3","bytes":3117980,"durationSec":129.79,"bitrate":192191,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:00.382Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/861-018.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/861-018","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/861/conversation-861-018","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}