Conversation 862-006

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Hello, Nick.

How are you?

How are you doing?

Good to see you.

I had a talk with Conley.

I used to get one personally on the way.

He told me about his talks with you.

And, um, um, date.

Pardon me.

I don't have the letter.

But in terms of, you know, the law, you know,

First, you should not go with natural Muslims.

Second, you should not go with smatters because it's type of what you make.

You make quite as much money with smatters, but you have to deal with a lot of Jews and other people that smatter them as bad people.

Larry Conley is a decent man, and I haven't done this to him.

Does he make you one of the managers of the firm?

It's a big firm.

You have your Washington, and since he would not be pushing for getting in business with you, he wouldn't have you sell your soul.

But he'll get them as well, and he'll be a tremendous guy.

You might not, and you might shoot a massive team.

He's the guy who's going to run that firm.

If you want to go the ball way, that's infinitely better than the art burns.

The art burns are selfish, horrible bad things.

In Texas, it would be selfish to do that.

There are diseases and stuff.

And it would be good.

Connelly also is going to be in a lot of good international stuff.

And you could have a lot of fun with that.

You could enjoy it all around the world and so forth.

You'd be a very great asset to him, which I told you about.

And you have something to bring to him that you can't bring to next year.

uh and you don't want to reach the other possibility is that everybody's going to be coming to you frankly already and they wouldn't say well they came because uh that the main thing i found on island they were very nice about it but i felt the obligation to get out

trying to hustle some business forward.

And of course, people did come to them sometimes in the wrong ways.

It's embarrassing.

You should never be out of the field if you've got a rod in your back to get out.

You know, the hustle doesn't show you that.

You can do it anyway.

But you must always be in a position to be able to turn down something that's not good.

It's embarrassing.

Now, if you just ain't trying to let the same thing

Your age is right.

When you see most senior partners, you have to be 16 or older.

So you're at the right age.

You might want to consider it.

If you go to that firm, you might want to consider it.

You might go to Houston at some point.

You might go to the, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a hell of a firm.

It's one of the big firms.

So that's the biggest thing for New York now is to do it for your 200 lawyers.

Christ is bigger than the conventional space, 130 lawyers.

But the biggest thing is not about the law.

dictates that I can't negotiate about something like that.

You know, I'm in the department.

I'm not having any further conversation on the job.

I think what you should do is to talk to the agent and negotiate.

You should.

As a matter of fact, you should never get out of here talking to them.

My only view is that you agree.

I always thought that we could take over the head of the corporation, but she's not willing to take any action.

I do.

I see my exes much better than your lawyers.

They like to be ahead.

They like the law.

And, uh, and, uh, if I were you, if I were you, Bobby, I'd sort of take you on account.

But, you know, I told John that he would go in terms of full necessity right here.

Which, of course, he's got to do, too.

But, uh, he doesn't have time.

He doesn't have time.

Now, the other thing I wanted to get into, I don't know if you can hear me, and I'm sorry if you can't hear me, but this is a question of plans.

You were talking about staying on.

You know, I don't want to say something like that.

I haven't talked about it.

I would like for you to stay.

I'd like to ask you to stay.

I'd like you to talk about it.

My name is another reason for that.

I felt that you should stay through the session.

But my view is that if you stay through the year, if you leave early, you're going to have to do it again in general.

You've got to go through all this.

You've really got to be the guy sitting there meeting the department.

I think also meeting the department.

You've got to say, with no plans to leave, at this point, you've got to say, well, I stayed through the year.

And I think that's what you should do.

And I don't understand.

It's going to cost you half a year.

You lose $100,000 in space.

But if you would stay through the year, I'd appreciate it.

I want to stay there.

And I don't think this is for heaven.

I understand.

When I say through the year, I mean, they're damn, of course, supposed to come out in February.

And I didn't do a lot of things there.

So you could control it.

And then I'd get out.

before we get into the election year, so.

Another thing that will come to the issue, and this is just .

I don't know what his political points are, but we're trying, of course, we have, not we, but we've been trying.

He never told me about politics, even though I tried to get in touch, but I said, I said, you know, I'm John.

What are your options, you're concerned?

The usual side.

On her side, I said, you could think better of all the money you throw in, not all of it.

I think you ought to stay here.

I think two of you are a lot earlier at this point.

I didn't realize that the Watergate would be over in only six months, but they're going to be here for around about a damn thing.

And I think you had done a good Watergate job about a damn thing.

And you did, and so it comes to mind.

The reason why I was assuming that I didn't hear your comment was that when I came up to them and they had a conversation and called me earlier, they both indicated to me that they didn't have a client on Capitol Hill.

Well, they were thinking at that time that that would be over, you see, at that time.

It would be over.

But now, just as you say, you're 80 years at the time, and you're supposed to be coming to Princeton School.

What are you going to say to them on those days?

Great.

All right, now let me come to the point.

Well, let your brother stay there since you're going to be in the sideline.

I'll stay.

He said, all right.

He's coming in to an entirely different, you know, it's hard for him to learn.

He's fired him.

I'm sure he's a very violent, loyal, and he's fired on him.

He's up by then.

He's just got a little training course to go through and he's not getting along great.

The other thing is, I, the, this is, this is very close to me, Howard Baker, I have a section for him.

I am talking to anybody about this thing and I want to, right?

I don't want anybody to hurt me.

I don't want you to talk to anybody else.

I don't want you to talk to her.

I don't want you to talk to your boss.

I don't want you to talk to anybody else.

What he's planning to do, what he, what he's going to do is, to, uh, first, to try to, to try to make the evidence, make the evidence that the Republicans are cooperating with the Irish, and honestly, that the administration is cooperating.

So I hear him personally, but the Irish are cooperating as well.

So he's got a strategy to get at it.

Not, I guess, but I would say, if, I said, provided, I said, provided,

He said, he would like, he said, he heard, I said, I would like to have you, and I said, he said, heard, like you, and he said, he would like to have you.

The first paper, the first one.

I said, why?

I said, as far as I'm concerned, everything's fine.

I suggested to the team to be ready for the next two.

Howard said,

He felt the need to meditate.

He sort of had the impression that all of them could.

I think of that as a stance.

It's a bad term.

Stance.

You know, Maury, he is so straight-legged and all that sort of thing, and unsophisticated and naive, that if he ever known such a thing, he would resign and pay.

He had no knowledge, whatever.

and I know this is true, he's totally operating on power over his government.

There was this, there were funds, which were raised with free primary, free economy, not so much cash, not so much money, and so forth, which were used by the security group for their various activities.

Therefore, Maury has

responsible for that, so you start with that.

Now that brings, however you call it, height.

That's the greatest possible thing, that's the most essential thing.

How long, Mitchell?

Mitchell has laid the line, you know.

I forgot this one.

Let me know if you want me to say it.

I remember in the hystics, the burden, the heart was wrapped, you know,

John, I don't know this, but I can't help but believe that John must have known it.

about these indicators.

And he wasn't found out about them.

And he might have had some of them.

And I think that the point is that John has denied the category.

And so what I concerned about was the purchase.

Now, with that in mind, I drove an item and Baker closed it.

I said, what?

And I said, I said, no.

All right.

That's the problem.

And I told Baker, why?

I said, now, John.

I said, I don't think so.

I said, John had a horrible domestic problem.

I said, I don't know.

He was very sick.

And John was the man that he mentioned.

These kids ran away with him.

That's the line I gave him.

And that's the line I want you to take.

John Mitchell was a pure, bright guy who would never have done such a thing when the kids ran away with him.

And John did the right thing simply because he forgot him.

I don't want John.

I can't have John.

I don't want John.

Thank you very much.

Uh, and I think putting Ray's name on one of the reasons I did was, uh, what did you say about that?

You had to have an investigation.

You're going to ask about what I gave you.

You're going to say, the right is to do anything.

You're going to have to have an investigation.

You're going to have to kill him.

That's what you're going to do.

Now, you're going to do it like, uh, now the other thing is, uh,

He was working in other fields.

See, Hunt worked on drugs, on the .

I said there could be .

Colson is the other .

Colson's close branch .

The fact that Colson was working with Hunt on the AGT, which he did.

uh, would lead, certainly, to a strong amuleto.

And Colson was in this.

Colson slowly dying.

He didn't go on.

Yeah.

Well, now the other one, this one.

The problem involved, in this case, Frank, was the brooder.

The brooder made work for home.

The brooder was over there.

And the brooder,

He's got the same problem.

Mitchell has too.

I got the, what's your name?

Kevin.

I don't know.

Well, I think it's possible that he .

Well, that's what people .

Now, with Krueger, he's got the problem because if you play him, he's not a very strong personality.

Krueger, I don't know.

And also, you are aware of that.

You are aware of that.

That the, you know, they, that Hoover told Mitchell separately, and me separately, that the FBI loved our plan in 1968.

Well, that's pretty legal, isn't it?

You're aware of the question.

It was a fact.

And, uh, that all of the work she was going to go to Cole, that was a Cole announcement, and I saw it, and I said, well, we're going to talk about the telephones.

I'm pretty bad, too.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't know.

And it looks like you say they're another country.

And that's why we did it.

People say, well, you know, I thought a great deal about this because I had knowledge of all the things on the East.

Of course, this investigation takes, you know, turns itself into a wild recharge and charge, right?

But maybe you want to consider that and further be made aware of this fact.

It might be a restraining entity in those, you know, because if they...

Yeah.

The thing is that everything is so stupid, including just the gravity of the water here.

It wasn't a crash work.

It was a bear's work ship.

They busted up the windows of the headquarters in Phoenix and burned the goddamn thing.

They, uh, they destroyed a $25,000 apartment in San Francisco.

Uh, they ran a riot in Los Angeles, right out of the government headquarters.

Now, when Irwin, when Irwin and the other folks went down to see him,

here.

Very here.

He's wrong about it.

He's, uh, he's wrong about it.

He's, you know, you said you broke it down.

You broke it down.

bring out all the big guys right away, get it over there, and let the assets go on from there on, and people will be tired.

I think that's rather smart.

In other words, rather than having to build a good, good, good, good, and then all, all, and call, and call the rest.

Good strategy.

and I've had no difficulty in communicating with him.

But the strategy is, the second point I'm going to put is that people want to talk to you about the cooperation you have with them.

Now, one of the FBI documents, and I'm a good voter, you examined the record of this, you found that the only other year in the green light, this was in this case,

At that time, the then-Congress of National Economy, like that yesterday, I had a couple of friends here that showed categorically reduced to allow the FBI.

Because they're going to ask for the raw data to be given to him and to the council and so forth.

You've got to be here.

My own view is this probably goes too far.

But I don't know what you'd give up.

Here's what I have suggested.

We've had conversations about it, and there's a strategy that we do.

Number one, I could not on the ground committee, but just obviously say I'm not going to turn over FBI documents to anyone.

So I can obviously do that.

probably get violent but i think it might be more hard as good because of the political my that we will give them a summary of the information of witnesses

I want to get on that question.

Why don't you, so that I don't get into that subject.

Why don't you talk to, uh, Joe Dean, or, say, not just Justice Layman, he agrees with me, but, uh, Mr. President, uh, I would say to them, okay, we're going to, we're not going to let you see each other, I was just protecting us, and people, and stuff.

We'll summarize it for you.

In the event that the full committee feels that our summaries have been, yeah, we will,

the other point

Now, how do you, how do you get around it?

is a very narrow line of inquiry

by what they say, and I'm not concerned about what they will justify.

And I'm not concerned about their questions, and I'm not concerned about it being on their goal.

I am concerned about them being hauled up there, because then, to me, they'll all kiss each other and say, now, what does the president really do if he can decide to buy a bomb in Hawaii?

Now, God damn it, we're just not going to have that.

That's my point.

Now, the other thing, which I've already heard, would be to have written the wrong address.

Written the wrong address every once in a while.

Now, there's a middle ground, although that's going to be your starting position.

The other ground, which I think could be a very good compromise, satisfactory to me, would be that for anybody that they will agree to and then

the senior urban on the Democratic side, Baker on the Republican side, and the Duke Council, and interrogate them under oath, like a deposition, and cover all questions, whether to be on that basis or not, probably.

How about another fallback position?

I think that would be a good proposal.

Well, how about as a final fallback position that he would at the end of the executive session, the low session of the full committee expulsion, he would, I think, produce the same result and say, I shut them all up there and see, I suppose, going on in the county and coming out, or the members coming out and saying so forth.

It's better, it's, it's, it's, it's better, it's better if I don't get on that.

But let me say, I think you should start with the internet.

It's written in the right words.

You know, I think we're stable with that.

And then, my duty, very strongly, is that I think that the best thing to do, which is to give a large amount of things to Kessinger, to the future, particularly, is what I'm most concerned about here.

The best thing, really, to the business, the majority, the majority of us.

Now, what the hell?

That really covers it.

And I hope there's a contact with all the other members of the committee who'll get it all right.

Well, it also provides for them the basic information they're seeking.

But they want information.

And the question is, do they want information?

But listen, that's the point.

If they want information, don't say things they can do it, and then they want both.

Yeah, I'm sure.

But you know, Sam Irvin has had quite a posture.

The President went through this.

And they reviewed, and I wrote that out in that case by doing it with my own investigators.

The FBI did not cooperate.

The Justice Department tried to drop the case.

And this is that.

Therefore, I want cooperation.

You can point this out.

You can say this.

I want to talk to you about this in another venue.

You can say, I haven't talked about this case.

You can talk about planning at that time.

And that's the question to you.

You might have already said you can't, but I do not want, I cannot, I cannot break down executive privilege at that point.

I'm not going to make this, I'm not going to make this kind of leap.

I will be, I want you to be very hard-line.

Who do you think of now as your recollection of what happened in his case that I can talk to?

Just out of the comfort of your mind.

who was involved in the .

One thing that I would say, I get hard paper.

I said, the reason .

Basically,

had a bad reputation, except on that case, which I personally handled.

And the reason that case even got the credit and respect of those who were totally on his side was his commitment.

And I went after this.

I said, in fact, they defied him for it.

I said, there was no piercing.

There was no innuendo.

There was no guilt by association.

But the point is, I want you to hammer that farm to her.

The compression, this, this, this, there should be around no hearsay.

You said, I mean, this damn judge is allowing hearsay and everything else down here in this other case.

But hearsay, did you end up, et cetera, et cetera, don't you think so?

That's right.

The, the intention of the, of the compression of coverage, not only, you know, 90 days, I, et cetera, on last year, and I was, and I'm writing that post.

Read the first chapter of Six Crises.

That tells the story.

I have a book.

Yes, sir, I do, and I haven't read it in a long time.

Read the first chapter of Six Crises and tell the story.

And that would give you good news.

It doesn't say that the FBI, well, pretty well applied.

The FBI utterly refused.

Booger was on my side.

I mean, utterly refused.

I'll tell you what I did do.

I'm sure you know.

I did get something on the FBI.

There was a priest, I mean, my father, growing up around that.

He was one of the Catholic FBI agents, and he leaked stuff out of the FBI, too.

That's all we know.

I don't know.

Why do you think we're permitted to have something to be used by the FBI?

I think it's bullshit.

I want you to be sure when you go back to your office today, Jimmy Hoffa announced he was going to run for the Detroit Bulls.

I want you to call Paul's lawyer, or somebody to call his lawyer, and tell him that if he does that, that I will continue to revoke his parole.

And also, I want you to make a public statement about the pressure and press conference.

I wanted to talk to you about that, you know, just the other policy was, oh, I didn't mean the parole was to be revoked.

It was on the basis of not engaging in the activities.

And I'd like you to have a strong public statement today.

And if you think you can do that, then I'm just taking that.

He calls me back and says, okay, if I'm like this, I'm gonna do it.

No, no, you say it right.

He used to say that publicly.

He's not, no, he's not saying publicly.

All these lawyers got publicly get off of this.

And if he does, the public will publicly state that.

Get off of this, that's all.

We're not gonna revoke this parole if he doesn't do that.

Right, but a lot of us publicly get out of this now.

I don't know.

If he told you that, then you made a statement with the effect that you would call a lawyer and you would be assured that he is not going to run.

And you're going to say, of course, that would be a violation of rule, period.

I want to take a very hard line on the current paper.

I agree that you have to go there with the politics in that.

And also, you're not quite getting the impression that we're solving a problem because we're not.

that's our thing

Underground rules are laid down.

But we will not, and I will not, but we're going to let them know how they carry it.

How they carry it.

With all the, that's what we're, we'll walk away from the Congress with other circumstances.

don't go to the exactly don't go to the exact

But I just want to suggest that I will back up the reason.

I think that would be the last bargaining position we had.

I just couldn't get it to the point where we had it.

That would probably be both a safe and also a bargaining position.

It would be in the end.

It would be defective.

But that is the one.

I welcome a lot when you tell them that, sir.

Do you agree with that?

That's why I mentioned it.

They never did that, and you should point out that they didn't do that in the his case.

You studied the records in the his case in the Department of Justice.

Why don't you just say that?

I can tell you I know exactly what I'm talking about.

I did.

They didn't.

They refused.

They refused to let anybody come.

But you covered this.

I don't recollect, but I read that book several years ago.

But you covered it pretty carefully in that book.

I think the public function that we ought to have right now is to wait and see what happens.

If they end up behind me, we're going to cooperate with them and see.

Let's get the damn thing done so we can go back and do something else.

That's right.

Don't make this a political circus and harassment.

partisan than the rest.

But on the other hand, I want you to get Baker a little harder and say that, Howard, don't be so damn timid with regard to what they have done.

They've done a hell of a lot.

If, for example, they expand the theory of this, perhaps you should write it in college.

If they had, you know, they should write it in the right mind, we're going to do all their endings.

I think that's going to be made very clear.

I think this area should be, frankly, all in water.

That's very much more.

It's just shit.

It's not, you know what I mean.

But if they do go power, it's got to go together somehow, which is great.

I think also a final judgment has to be made in Sydney with respect to this 1968 stuff right now.

You don't know that Dean Colosci was involved in and he's working for a contract with the governor of Calico, very close friend of the governor, supporter, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah.

Because once we get into that, once you're ready to get into this criminal conduct, you know, that could lend itself to a criminal prosecution.

That's right, Colosci.

That's why Colosci fell back on you, right?

Yeah.

I feel great.

I'm directing these hearings.

I'm here to call in the people who are in charge.

The Star had the story.

Of course, the Star.

They went to Johnson.

Johnson was about two to three months ago.

They were involved.

The Star had a weekend.

They were very close friends.

They were, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Because once we get into that...

But you're going to get into this trouble now that could lend itself to a good trust meeting.

And they haven't got that.

That's why you can look, you know, back off.

Yeah.

I feel great.

I'm directing these here.

I'm here to call out the people who are in charge of that.

You can lie to them because you don't want to see them.

Not because of what I said.

The star has a story to tell.

We'll be right back.

But you're going to get into this trouble now, don't you think so?

That could lend itself to a little trusty emotional emotion.

I'm trying to get the right words out of that.

That's why emotional emotion, all that, and all that.

Yeah.

I feel great.

I'm directing things here.

We can lie to them because we don't want to see them.

And they went to Johnson and Johnson was about two or three months ago.

They wrote on a wall and so forth and so on.

The star has a weekend, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Yeah.

Because once we get into that, once you're ready to get into this criminal conduct, you know, that could lend itself to a criminal custody and personal injury.

And they have to look out there and try to do the right sort of thing.

That's why you have to look, you know, back off.

Yeah.

I have told Greg, my director, when he was here, he said, I'm here to call in the people who are in charge of that area.

We have a lot of people who are in charge of that area.

The Star had the stories.

Of course, the Star.

They went to Johnson.

Johnson was two or three months ago.

They were involved and so forth and so on.

The Star had the weekend.

Because once we get into that,

But you're going to get into this trouble now that could lend itself to a real trusty emotional issue.

I'm trying to get the right words out of that.

That's why you're emotional.

Yeah.

I feel great.

I'm directing.

I'm serious.

We have a lot of people who are in charge of that.

Yeah.

I feel great about directing these series.

I'm here to call in the people who are in charge of that.

We get the lighting, I mean, you know, so it's, you know, not because of the icing.

The Star had the story, you see.

Of course, the Star, and they went to Johnson.

Johnson was, uh, two or three months ago.

They were on a wall, and so forth and so on.

The Star ended the weekend.

Yeah, because once we get into that,

but you're really getting into this trouble now that you know that could lend itself to a