Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 865-016
Date: Wednesday, February 28, 1973 at 10:24 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.; Ziegler, Ronald L.
Recording device: Oval Office
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/865-016

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:03] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[0:04] Maybe right here on the side.
[0:08] Oh, wow, wow.
[0:10] That's good.
[0:11] That's good.
[0:11] Do we have anything else, Patrick?
[0:13] Yes, a couple of things.
[0:13] There was some sort of mixed-race confusion.
[0:17] The part where we had to pass it to his daughter was flying up, just so she could be there and see the process and see the prevention.
[0:27] All right, well, this is Lance.
[0:28] Sure, sure, sure.
[0:36] U.S.
[0:51] Dr. Grant from the CIDB, the minister.
[0:54] Oh yeah, the minister.
[0:55] And of course, Dr. Grant speaks very highly of the PLC, mostly corporate.
[1:01] I know all about that, but we have a great report on the operation.
[1:04] And yes, sir, I spoke with him yesterday.
[1:06] I don't know where he is.
[1:08] Grant, he's probably going to get elected.
[1:09] Yes, sir.
[1:12] And in a few cases, he's never had a very strong support.
[1:16] Even if he supported you already, he could have started to support you.
[1:20] And even if he had any differences, he's too much of a gentleman to treat.
[1:25] Well, you could go with him, and not just next year you get McCartney, which currently we've got in our office.
[1:32] McCartney, it's right now, he's John McCartney, from Illinois.
[1:37] He's from Chicago, yeah.
[1:39] He's been very well.
[1:40] And he was considered a participation in our good.
[1:45] And get killed for the next church service whenever we have one.
[1:49] That gets our black ball out of us.
[1:53] So the golden manger dinner.
[1:58] The standard press coverage, which would include the photograph of the arrival of the merry-go-round and the stairway.
[2:05] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[2:10] The toast piped down to the press.
[2:13] Yeah.
[2:14] For that, yeah.
[2:15] Right.
[2:20] However, the evidence that it's been done is to be filed to the press.
[2:22] That's, that's my comment to be all, all correct on that.
[2:25] There's no coverage tonight.
[2:27] Yeah, there should have been for that.
[2:29] That's so sure of that.
[2:31] Photographed at the beginning of... That's all.
[2:32] I mean the photograph.
[2:33] Oh, sure, sure, sure, sure.
[2:35] The photograph's not mine.
[2:36] I don't want my marks to be just blood on the person's hands.
[2:41] And there's no pool hanging around.
[2:42] It's just the, the picture of the source.
[2:44] It's a visiting lens.
[2:47] They don't have the goddamn mic there either.
[2:54] You understand?
[2:56] I know they need it for the archives and the rest as well.
[3:01] Have somebody outside set up, they can set up outside, you know, a small machine or something, but don't have something that's stuck in front of the people.
[3:14] so that they don't get all of them to think that they're on, too.
[3:17] Or in front of me, they'll think we're talking.
[3:19] I'd rather have them feel that we're just talking to them.
[3:23] But do that and record it, but have it recorded, but basically upload it, rather than have it .
[3:29] I think there's sufficient interest in the library to photograph the introduction of the entertainment.
[3:37] Oh, sure.
[3:41] I think at the end is better.
[3:45] I think a photograph at the end of the opening, and then myself with a photograph.
[3:56] If you've got a hold of Davis about the spec over here, I can see it.
[3:59] Yes, sir.
[3:59] Yes, sir.
[4:00] He will probably arrive and so forth.
[4:01] He will get the... Well, I've got to be sure, sir.
[4:05] All right, fine.
[4:05] And I'm taking care of the astronauts.
[4:07] I'll listen to watches and hear the answers.
[4:09] Well, I was thinking that what you might do with the astronauts is this.
[4:14] They might come up to the yellow oval at 15 minutes or 10 minutes before they get there.
[4:22] And I will meet them and present their watches to them and give the wives something.
[4:28] I mean, buy something for the wives.
[4:31] We'll do that in D-15.
[4:32] And then A-15.
[4:33] And we'll do that in science.
[4:35] And then that'll give us time to go down to the entertainment.
[4:38] And then they can go down.
[4:39] So have them in the yellow room so they've got that much.
[4:43] The other thing I'm going to suggest is you go to those.
[4:49] But Sammy Davis just told him that I was seeing him the next morning for breakfast.
[4:54] He said, you know, for breakfast.
[4:56] Yeah, not for breakfast, but he said, I was seeing him at a private company.
[5:01] He served his wife.
[5:03] And he said, you know, I love you.
[5:06] And he said, you know, I love you.
[5:09] And he said, you know, I love you.
[5:12] And he said, you know, I love you.
[5:16] Where would you be having a breakfast with ?
[5:18] You don't need to tell him what it is.
[5:20] It depends on where people are, so that I can think their way around it.
[5:24] Just say it would be on the second floor.
[5:27] Very good.
[5:27] Thank you very much.
[5:29] OK.
[5:29] So the situation today.
[5:44] The line got out.
[5:45] We haven't heard back from Rogers yet on his meeting.
[5:49] He's calling in and wants to reach Henry.
[5:51] Henry should be back shortly.
[5:53] Where is he?
[5:54] He was at a meeting somewhere.
[6:00] I don't know specifically where he is.
[6:02] They said he was at a meeting.
[6:04] The word out of the Joint Military Commission on whether or not the North Vietnamese had brought down the list is
[6:13] has not been confirmed.
[6:14] It's only on Phibus, and that's no confirmation by any sense of the meaning.
[6:19] My judgment is that you should not go today.
[6:22] Well, that's what I was thinking.
[6:24] I think it would be... Well, they got the list by before the end of the...
[6:28] It's not right today.
[6:29] It isn't right to go out on top of the list.
[6:32] I think they get it.
[6:33] They'll probably get it.
[6:37] tomorrow.
[6:38] We'll see what's nighttime there now.
[6:40] 10 or 30 there now.
[6:42] But you're probably not going to get it today.
[6:46] And in your case, I think you should just go home.
[6:50] That's right.
[6:51] Now, I talked to Friedheim over at Defense today, and they had a thought that Richardson should go out today.
[7:01] Who was it?
[7:02] Well, you know, you can confirm the fact that we're
[7:05] not uh sweeping the mines and the fact that the troop withdrawal thing has been held up but i'm afraid no it takes you no no no no but i want that escalator and all that i think we should hold there uh and they should all there's no comment none of that is decent there is no comment on that stuff i prefer we want to be that private you know i haven't had i have not talked to henry about this he apparently talked to richardson last night
[7:34] I thought that a strong statement might be good by Richardson.
[7:38] I can't make a judgment.
[7:41] That's why we'd like to get Henry.
[7:44] We better get him before he agrees.
[7:47] But my instinct from the standpoint of the judgment, from the standpoint of the news, if you go out today, it's too high.
[7:55] If Richardson goes out today and says something hard and firm, it's going to move this thing up even further.
[8:01] Don't do it.
[8:01] Don't do it.
[8:02] Just play it cool now.
[8:03] Play it cool.
[8:05] And so you're going to think like this.
[8:08] No, it does not hold to that.
[8:12] Because, hell, he was going to have me say, and I knocked that out, and then he was going to have you say it, and we knocked that out.
[8:19] We've got it at the right level now.
[8:23] I say this is what we're trying to say.
[8:26] We've got to get a chance, like we did in the bombing, a chance to get all this thing as gracefully as possible.
[8:36] Of course, this is testimony to how naive McGovern and the
[9:02] I mean, this very act.
[9:03] And I've talked to Clausen at the right time to begin to move this around.
[9:08] Nothing, nothing proves how naive the McGovern and his supporters were to say, oh, well, all the United States has to do is just withdraw their troops.
[9:21] I remember back a year ago, and then the good-hearted, good-natured North Vietnamese would turn over their prisoners.
[9:28] Even after they signed an agreement,
[9:31] Along this line, they're using the prisoners as a measure of where we have to get those prisoners back.
[9:40] Absolutely.
[9:42] All hell breaks loose.
[9:43] They're going to have to go.
[9:46] I don't think it's going to happen, is my guess.
[9:49] From the reports out of Paris this morning, excuse me, out of Saigon, the bar service reports, it appears that basically what the... No, no.
[9:59] It appears that their main concern, at least from the reports, is the fact that they get kicked around in the Joint Military Commission.
[10:09] That's right.
[10:09] Well, you indicated it.
[10:13] In other words, housing and that type of thing.
[10:16] That's right.
[10:16] Well, we can handle that.
[10:17] We've got assassins.
[10:20] We've sent very sharp ones.
[10:22] Very sharp ones.
[10:24] Throughout this very early stage.
[10:31] Well, I'll call, uh, I'll call Richardson, uh, in our free time.
[10:35] Yeah, you should ask him about the Jews visiting or something like that.
[10:38] You should say, well, we're still trying to work.
[10:42] We're working on a date.
[10:44] We have a bunch of work.
[10:47] Call Richardson.
[10:47] Well, I don't know.
[10:48] You should call him until, until then.
[10:50] Well, we're speaking in a holding pattern.
[10:53] Yeah.
[10:54] But, uh, Henry should be, uh, be around here sometime soon.
[10:58] I'm, I'm, I'm going to check right now.
[11:01] The other thing, in terms of you going today, and I think one of the key things, you're surely going to question on aid, and there certainly is no time to respond to a question on aid alone.
[11:10] Well, what is your view?
[11:11] And I'd just like to get my own plans to whether I should go or not.
[11:15] I think we'll be able to determine today by at least 2 o'clock how this thing is going to go.
[11:23] And if it looks like the POW list is forthcoming and that we set a date with the Joint Military Commission for the POWs to come back, then I think you should go on Friday.
[11:34] If it appears this is going to drag on, I don't think you should go out Friday.
[11:40] In the press conference where you are going to appear on any discussion of Vietnam, the question of aid, the question of all that, because there's a question of the agreement that's going to come up.
[11:52] Sure.
[11:52] And I don't think you want to be out there talking questions.
[11:55] We don't have any on the agreement and so forth and so on.
[11:58] You just say we've dissipated difficulties and we haven't.
[12:01] We always have.
[12:02] That's why we worked so long to...
[12:05] That's why it's very important to be ready for these violations that you mentioned about at the beginning.
[12:13] And we're going to have to be on both sides of that as well.
[12:18] We're using the influence of both sides to get adherence to be ready.
[12:22] And it's going to be surprising to see the number of attacks that are going on in the same place as what it is.
[12:29] And you can read the number of violations and so forth and so on.
[12:46] But sort of take your, take your shot at it.
[12:49] We weren't too hard yesterday, I don't think, I think.
[12:52] Huh?
[12:52] Were we too hard yesterday, you think?
[12:54] Hell no, I didn't think so.
[12:57] But I think, let me say, he told me a hell of a lot from what Henry wanted.
[13:01] Yes, sir.
[13:02] And he may have had second thoughts.
[13:03] I don't know how he is.
[13:05] He's always second guessing everything we ever do after he recommends a much harder course of action.
[13:11] But on the other hand, my view is that you did exactly what you should have done.
[13:15] What else did he say to me?
[13:16] You were firm, and so forth, and the press above.
[13:20] I don't seem to be.
[13:21] Of course, we're talking to the American audience, too.
[13:24] That's what they want.
[13:26] Even George Hill said this morning at a Saturday, he said, we were talking about the Roy Ash race, the thing, about the aid question.
[13:36] George said, look, he said, the main thing is to get the prisoners back, which was kind of a gut reaction, not as George normally is.
[13:44] I think that's the job.
[13:47] I say to the governor tonight that no aid, that the aid will not be funded out of, I mean, it will be funded out of resistance events and others.
[13:55] Of course, if you do that, there'll be a story tomorrow morning.
[13:59] I understand.
[14:07] And I may not discuss, I suppose there's a problem that we don't have a POW thing.
[14:14] But this may be solved by this evening, and it may not be.
[14:21] Well, we'll see.
[14:23] Then I can say something that would be useful.
[14:26] Let the hell out of the governor's office and talk about other things.
[14:39] Okay, let me check in.
[14:43] I can see a piece.
[14:45] Well, why don't you check and have him come in, perhaps, like I said, as long as you get him available to come in.
[14:53] Let me ask you, if it doesn't roll, if I have to keep it scheduled, if it doesn't roll Friday, I want to get it over with.
[15:18] We don't have it by Friday.
[15:22] Since you gave me that, I have to go.
[15:26] Monday.
[15:27] Right.
[15:28] Right.
[15:28] I would hope that this would sort itself out so it could be held on Friday.
[15:33] Why?
[15:36] If I do go right, though, my feeling is that I will want to do it at 3 rather than 11.
[15:41] That's due to the fact that we're going to have a very late night's dinner.
[15:46] I don't want to have to get up and try to get myself wet.
[15:52] Of course, if you're free on Monday...
[15:57] I'm eager to always...
[16:00] Maybe mine's a better time.
[16:02] Well, I was just saying, it seems to me that the decision could be made at about 2 o'clock today, or maybe when Henry talks to Rogers, or when it's tomorrow, when it gets into tomorrow morning in Saigon, I think the decision probably... Let me say this.
[16:20] The only problem about holding us up and saying, well, I'll go Friday, is frankly that...
[16:28] I don't know.
[16:31] well if we had to make the decision right now my feeling would be it's a mistake to go today and go monday at this moment if the decision would have to be made i'd say
[17:02] Well, because I'm not certain how this thing can sort itself out.
[17:08] I still would go for Monday.
[17:10] It's the start of the week.
[17:12] This has been a...
[17:25] With Golda Meir coming on Thursday, I think Monday's just about right.
[17:30] We have Golda Meir and the social thing.
[17:32] We've got $70 tonight.
[17:34] We have Golda Meir Thursday.
[17:36] We've got the evening at the White House.
[17:39] Let's just decide, Monday or today, and then you see, that'll give me Sunday afternoon.
[17:46] Sunday afternoon, I'll pull the thoughts together.
[17:50] I'll go Monday at 11 o'clock.
[17:52] It'll be a little surprise, and sort of thing.
[17:58] Good.
[17:58] Mine is a little better.
[18:14] That's right.
[18:14] You also cut yourself out of five good hours.
[18:18] Particularly if you go west.
[18:41] Radio, broadcast, new news, you know, a whole collective combination of things.
[18:49] I'm just thinking about getting going.
[18:53] I'll update everything.
[18:55] Well, please do.
[19:53] I think it's going to be a sudden depression.
[19:54] Well, let's just wait and see.
[19:56] Okay, sir.
[19:57] And all the britches and things before you, hold them well.
[20:01] Don't be here.
[20:03] And as soon as Henry gets back, you hand him a banana.
[20:05] Yes, sir.