Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 865 › Conversation 865-024

Nixon, Kissinger & Ziegler on POW release and Paris Agreement

Wednesday, February 28, 1973 · 12:02 PM–12:15 PM ET · Oval Office · 9 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation865-024 on Tape 865StartWednesday, February 28, 1973 at 12:02 PMEndWednesday, February 28, 1973 at 12:15 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 865-024 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and Ronald Ziegler discussed the aftermath of Secretary Rogers' meeting with North Vietnamese Foreign Minister Nguyen Duy Trinh regarding the Paris Agreement. The primary focus was on North Vietnam's assurances about the full release of POWs within the 60-day period and their commitment to discuss the next phase of releases through the Joint Military Commission. Nixon expressed dissatisfaction with the perceived softness of the public statement and the lack of progress on key issues like mining, while also considering how to frame the developments for the press.

Audio

Download MP3 · 12.5 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
Uh-huh.
That's what Rod, as he talked this morning with Trent, and what he got isn't a hell of a lot, but we can make it into something.
What he got was, in a private meeting, what he's willing to say, between Secretary of State Rod and Foreign Minister Trent, the Foreign Minister said that he intended to fully carry out the provisions of Paris Agreement dealing with POWs.
In this connection, he gave the assurance of his government that all POWs held by his government would be released within the 60-day period set forth in the agreement.
That's nothing.
We've already said that publicly.
With regard to the next phase of release of the POWs, Foreign Minister Trinh said that the matter would be discussed at once in the Joint Military Commission.
And what I think we should say is...
with regard to the next phase of release of the POWs, which under Article 4 of the protocol is due, was due on February 28th.
Foreign Minister Tripp gave the assurance and then said in order to work out the detailed arrangement, but that ties into the 28th.
Well, the 28th.
Well, but we'll just do it.
Let them deny it.
Right.
Yes.
Well, I think Roger should have beaten him silly.
There's no dispute about the 60 days.
The dispute is about the 15 days.
No, but if we put this out, we'll get more.
And then he wants us to say, in the light of this, the President has asked Rogers to proceed with the other business of the Congress.
But my feeling is, Mr. President, if we would be...
What we should say is, well, we can't, if we put in the 15 days and say, no, as soon as this is worked out, the person who's directed the deed, then we proceed with the other items to the conference.
We have to put it down.
As soon as the agency has made these arrangements, the person who's directed the project, we would say, proceed with the other items on the agenda for the conference.
All right.
And I think with regard to the next phase of the release, it will be the which under Article 4 of the Protocol.
In my fear, through these passes, Mr. President, we just make them turn down.
Well, what I think is happening here is that Mr. Grant would not have sent that unless he had already heard.
I mean, now, what do you think he would have?
Would he have told Rogers this?
No, no, no, they haven't.
But just because they're caving, we ought to pay attention to them.
My point is that they're caving because there's something wrong that he's not aware of.
Exactly.
Do you agree?
Totally.
And he can be made aware of later.
Well, no, I've told him these stuffed pistols and mining.
Have you informed him?
No, that I didn't tell him.
That's the point.
See, informing them is important.
Well...
Yes, but this is why we just should affirm and let them then publicly say, in order to work out the...
This is true.
Let's do this way.
It started before state of the protocol.
Soon as these arrangements are agreed to, which is tonight here.
No, the conference doesn't meet again, sir.
Then let's skip it.
I think, Mr. President...
Absolutely.
Roberts is not going to go back there, though.
Wait a minute.
Does he want to go right back now?
Because of this, he doesn't consider this.
That's why I asked you the rhetorical question.
Why do you consider this?
The answer is not enough.
What Roberts wants to do...
They'll complete them by then.
If that's what I would ask, the list of ships that go out on Tennessee does it in Paris, and they can break it into James Sea?
They can break it into James Sea within 10 hours.
It's midnight there now.
And if you put this out now, that will hit Hanoi.
This was a proposed Roger statement, and I'm trying to break it, so I don't know.
His statement is too soft.
And it doesn't say anything about this way.
Well, his statement is basically indicating to me that everything is just hunky-dory.
There's nothing to worry about.
Oh, shit.
They are screwing around on that.
And we're just going to say it.
That's right.
Now, you agree, huh?
Completely.
All right.
What it says now... Let Ron see if he understands.
Okay.
Read it.
In a private meeting between Secretary of State Rogers and Foreign Minister Trent, the Foreign Minister stated he intended to fully carry out the provisions of the Paris Agreement dealing with POWs.
In this connection, he gave the assurance that this government, that his government, that all POWs held by his government would be released within the 60-day period set forth in the agreement.
With regard to the next phase of release of the POWs, what is your word here?
Which under protocol?
The protocol is due this week.
Foreign Minister Trent said that the matter would be discussed at once during the military commission in order to work out the detailed arrangements.
The President has directed Secretary Rogers to proceed with the other business of the conference as scheduled as soon as these arrangements are completed.
Thank you.
As soon as the arrangements for the release of the... As soon as the arrangements for the... Next.
For the next... That's right.
Rather than these arrangements, you see, as soon as the arrangements... For the next phase of the prison release... For the next phase is... Is what?
Uncompleted.
The conference business will continue as soon as the list is handed over.
Yes, sir.
Is that clear?
The business will proceed as soon as you have a date for the next meeting.
Now, this will be reported as a problem, basically solved.
If I go to the state and then it's recorded as being solved, then they start snowboarding again.
That's right.
Okay.

NARA Description

On February 28, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 12:02 pm to 12:15 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 865-024 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 865-24

Date: February 28, 1973
Time: 12:02pm-12:15 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger and Ronald L. Ziegler.

       William P. Rogers meeting with Nguyen Duy Trinh
              -North Vietnam
                      -Compliance with agreement
                      -Prisoner of War [POW] release
                             -Future release
                                    -Joint Military Commission
              -Press release
                      -POW release
                                                -25-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                             Conversation No. 865-24 (cont’d)

                               -Timing
               -Roger’s viewpoint
               -Press release
                       -POW issue
                               -International Conference on Vietnam
                                       -Roger’s role
               -North Vietnam’s negotiating position
                       -Trinh
                       -US withdrawal, mining
                               -Kissinger’s briefing of Rogers
                       -Confirmation of POWs release
                               -Timing
               -International Conference on Vietnam
                       -Rogers’s return
               -Roger’s statement
               -Ziegler’s statement
                       -Rogers’s meeting with Trinh
                       -North Vietnam’s statement
                               -POWs
                               -Joint Military Commission
                       -International Conference on Vietnam
                               -Rogers’s participation
                                       -POWs release
                               -Continuation
               -Gen. Brent G. Scowcroft
                       -Rogers
               -Stonewalling
                       -Continuation of International Conference on Vietnam

Kissinger and Ziegler left at 12:15 pm.

Also recorded on February 28, 1973

  • 865-020 10:59 AM · 17 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the Oval Office of the White House at 10:59 am.
  • 865-021 10:59 AM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 10:59 am and 11:07 am.
  • 865-022 11:07 AM · 45 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the Oval Office of the White House from 11:07 am to 11:52 am.
  • 865-023 11:52 AM · 8 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 11:52 am and 12:02 pm.
  • 414-001 12:23 PM · 1 hr 16 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, White House operator, and Richard M. Helms met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:23 pm to 2:15 pm.
  • 037-007 12:30 PM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 12:30 pm.
  • 037-008 12:30 PM · 14 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 12:30 pm and 12:41 pm.
  • 037-009 12:41 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Richard M. Helms talked on the telephone from 12:41 pm to 12:43 pm.

All 48 conversations from February 28, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 865-024, February 28, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/865-024 (accessed October 1, 2026).