Conversation 867-016

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Let me tell you the problem.

We didn't know it until after they had invited us to transportation.

The problem we had with it.

should have anticipated is this that now the the crescent is broken and uh the whenever i go anyplace they'll say well how about congressional people going along you know what i mean how the hell do we keep them out of china how do we keep them out of russia because there was no earthly reason for them to go to this god damn thing to witness the signing they didn't they've done that on television that's and that's

Because they hauled them over in a separate plane and, you know, it was, it was done, the invitations were done, the whole thing was set before anybody here, at least as far as I can remember, anybody here knew about it.

Then he called over and asked for help, and created, asked for help in getting them over there.

Created a monumental flat on the road.

There you are.

That was the story.

He was disturbed, again, probably for the wrong reason.

Not the one I'm raising, but he said about five years ago, I mean, he's not quite on the list of kids.

Well, oh, he is.

He is on the list of kids.

Well, yeah, but that's anything.

The thing that really concerns me is the president said there was no goddamn reason to have those people over there.

Why do you think he did it?

I think he probably, his rationalization would be that he did it in relation to Congress.

Yeah, it was a good chance to go.

I haven't talked to him about this, I don't know what it is.

It's a pretty funny trick one to pull.

He's pulling a lot before he's doing this stuff without...

Well, is he doing anything also over here?

It's all something like that, but I mean, he's not keeping people filled in.

He's not keeping Henry Hall filled in.

What he's doing is he, you know, he was going to launch off on that.

He is everything in all directions.

I want you to get copies of this to each of the people that was at my table.

Yeah.

Well, I was wondering if we have to, again,

It's not right.

Remember, that's, that's, he was very good for a while after, after we were at Camp 8, you know.

What do you think the situation is?

Is he trying to go off on his own kid now?

Well, let me just put it this way.

Don't let it get up to me.

Remember, that was the one thing you said at Camp 8.

Remember, after you put the President through this, I think it broke for these fights.

Now, one thing we're going to do is start overwriting on a point that's true.

Now, I'm not a partner anymore in any of those.

You have any problem with that?

Yeah.

Thank you.

And we have a few ambassadors who are still having a hassle on the undersecretary, assistant secretary.

I watched the question.

He wants to keep Cisco in the Middle East, and we were going to move in on to Pakistan.

He's given up on keeping this in Africa.

He's opposed to Bob Hill coming in.

He was written us a letter, and he's put it to us.

And he has to be ambassador or something.

And he says he wants to return to public service.

No, he wants to be ambassador to Canada.

I think we gave that to somebody already.

Well, we don't owe him anything, actually.

Yeah.

Right.

It wasn't, we weren't doing it to be done.

No, that's what I meant.

We don't get part of it.

We're going to get it together.

He's a loyal man that put us in some other position.

He has done, he can do Mexico very well.

He can do God damn well in Mexico.

Because he did, he did it before, you know, he did it to one of his fellow soldiers, very first medic.

He was Mexican, though.

I think he had... Oh, you're right.

He had Mexico to run by, too.

I just have a very, very, very great feeling, Bob, about that bow.

You know, uh, you know.

I'm just worried about it.

I think the bow's just too goddamn important for you.

And maybe we just didn't tell Bob.

What is the situation?

Why is it going to be embarrassing?

Embarrassing to me and embarrassing to Bob and all the clients.

No, embarrassing to Jim.

Because he told everybody.

But I would think he would go to another post without any great embarrassment.

He has to go out and do something, I suppose, if he's told everybody he's going.

How did we get to the position where Bob potentially had the license to do that?

I don't know.

He was never ready to act.

He's never mentioned Reynolds to me, ever, that I ever recall.

Well, I didn't know he ever wanted to be an ambassador.

I see.

Well, it's one of those things.

Because we held off, it was before the, geez, I think it was even before the 17th, or during the 17th.

Remember, we thought it was one of the cheaper protocols.

Yeah.

What are we going to do about protocol?

Anything?

Just leave this all the way?

No, no.

That worked out last night, didn't it?

Well, what happened?

They came with her.

The wife did, too?

Yep.

The car was supposed to have come over early.

And then they came with her, and they went in.

However, they didn't come up to the oval.

They went in the other room, which I think is the way they should do it.

The wife was supposed to come over early and be in the other room.

And then he was supposed to come with the guests.

Well, of course that's the way it should be.

But I'll tell you, when you get the news, just work it out.

The wife comes over and then he comes with the guests and comes with me to go out to swim.

No, no.

But just escorts the guests to the house.

He goes over to Blair House, gets the guests in the car, and then gets in the protocol car, separate car.

Good.

And rides over in the motorcade.

That's right.

And makes sure the guests...

And you start up, then he goes on the road, and then he goes on into the road where the folks are.

But behind me, for example, were the Moss Packers.

Oh, we were riding together.

We were to pick up the guests.

And then four of them riding together in that car.

It was terrible.

Are you agreed?

Absolutely.

I mean, it's a long dress and everything.

It was a goddamn mess.

And, by the way, small.

We're talking, but.

Let's get the, uh, along these bastards, you know, they want to better get this person down the line.

We've got to get somebody to Israel.

Well, Ken Keating wants them.

Too old.

Well, but that, and then it'd be bad.

That would be very, and I talked to Mitchell, Mitchell, he says it would really help with Rockefeller.

Really?

Yeah.

And he said, Ken, it would do exactly what you wanted it to do.

It would program it.

I'm capable of handling the thing.

He's too old on appearances, but he's not all dotted yet.

I mean, he's coming into his senses.

And, uh, Rockefeller wants him to be well-received, isn't he, sir?

Yeah, Rockefeller does very much.

All right.

Give it to him, buddy.

To make the point, I want you to make the point to Rockefeller.

I think you ought to call him rather than hammering on this one, okay?

So, it's like, fine, we'll do it.

I think Mitchell feels it's important.

The other one Mitchell raised, which I haven't raised with anybody else, is, I don't know if John Dean's...

One of the major problems on the business John's working on is the question of continuing financial activity in order to keep those people on place.

And the way he's working on that is via Mitchell to Tom Pappas, which is the best source we've got for that kind of a thing.

Pappas is extremely anxious that Tuska stay in Greece.

Do you mind listening?

And our plan, you know, is to move in and put someone else in Greece.

But Mitchell says it would be a very useful thing to just, my understanding, not disrupt that.

Good.

My understanding.

No problem.

That was great, but my opinion for this other activity, how do you do it?

Yeah.

He, I mean, it's just, he has, you know, he's, doesn't have to raise money.

It happens, right?

Well, gee.

No, but he put a thing together over there, and he just, he sold his company out or something, and picked up something else, and put the barley then into something else.

Apparently, it's kind of the ceremony of the unknown.

Great.

John Paul Geddes is the Lord of the Charming Man.

I'm just glad.

And he, yeah.

He's able to deal on cash.

Well, that's why I'm here today.

What is the situation on the... Any of these other things now I've had with the...

I'm unable to do any more with George Shultz on Webster.

I'm just not sure if it's chosen too much.

I'm not sure.

I'll check it back and see where we are.

I think there's a story to this one.

Wow.

Colson gets back, what do you think?

Well, I want you to just bow your head and look at Colson and say, look, we've been around tracking the goddamn thing.

He's got money.

He's got balls on him.

And we're doing funding for Seth and Brennan.

Seth and Brennan have got balls on them.

The Webster thing, you just can't win them all.

Because Chuck should not program quite that hard.

Well, he can be helpful to what's there in the ways.

The position can be helpful to us, too.

Well, for example, while we continue on.

Well, I think people over-dramatize this stuff.

They say, you know, the guy's giving up his whole practice and all that.

I just don't think that's true.

Look, that's okay.

I've been through this.

He doesn't really want a government job.

He's just doing it if we need him in this post.

And then all of a sudden, you've got to give him something else.

I think, as you know, Chuck.

I'm sorry we couldn't get him.

Only me.

He's still a man product.

You can't make Schultz.

Schultz can't live.

That's the problem.

You got to talk to Rose about Taylor again.

No.

I'm going to say the way I would talk about that is Taylor came in to see me.

I would have told you that from somebody else.

And you told me that or you told me that.

Why don't you do it that way?

Fair enough.

Yeah, I'm better.

No, you don't have to worry.

I'd say, I'd say, I'd talk to Taylor about it.

Yeah.

And a couple other.

The only thing is, Elliot lit up.

But then he showed me my outfit.

Taylor said, well, look, I used exactly what you used.

Yeah, me.

And Taylor said, I remember.

But it's time.

You've got the truth in here.

It's the truth.

Well, that's true.

I don't need it.

It's exactly sad.

The problem is, I'm afraid she knows Taylor pretty well.

You can say that to her.

That far I can't, because I've got to say that you've got to get the bottom of it.

You've got to, and here it is.

I'm saying, I didn't even have to, that some of them have volunteered, because they were upset.

Right.

That's good.

Good to know.

No more shot.

Mainly because, in this case, we just haven't had one hell of a good case.

And now it wasn't a good case that came across, but we really got a good case here.

Yeah, it got bunched up in the process, but it started out good.

I think what happened is that I'm not sure it was handled that well by the department.

I think that the department probably was trying to whine her again.

But that didn't matter.

Well, in fairness, Morgan was new over there, I think.

Yeah.

And just not, I'm sure he didn't know what all the intrigue was, and he didn't.

Or, if his full advisement was, of course, you know, where everybody fit, I wouldn't have started the one that we had.

The Bureau is also full of intrigue.

See, that kind of business is full of intrigue.

That's another, the CIA is full of intrigue.

Well, getting back to the statement, I'm not going to

I'm glad that nobody here approved it.

Because I knew everything.

Because everybody would have thought that I had a second real life president.

It was just the opposite of approving it.

It was horror.

You remember they all wanted to go before them.

Everyone wanted them.

Bobby just took them over there to see the goddamn signing.

They didn't participate in the negotiation, did they?

No, no.

What was the price that they had on their board?

They just went over just for the, you know, they weren't there for the whole thing.

They were just there for the thing today.

And they're already back.

They're on their way back.

Oh, are they?

I thought they were back already.

I don't think they're back.

If they just signed the date, then we must be right.

Well, that's going to get Keating out of the way.

I may kill for Mexico if we can get him.

I really meant it.

He'd do a hell of a job.

He'd be a strong man there.

Or... Why is Robin subjective, though?

I don't know.

He just thinks he's a...

It's probably not one of his people.

He sure isn't.

But that's the mind of what our people didn't know.

So... On that...

congressional meeting on Tuesday the reason for the Scott and Ford thing was that they made a specific request that the two of them meet with you along on the vetoed strategy the whole vetoed question they wanted to have one short session with you I'm sure I'm sure I'm sure

What I was concerned about, because, you know, I don't know this, but this was in the way of Scott coming in to tell me what he was worried about.

I've got to meet separately with eight different delegations.

I don't think so.

It doesn't have that feeling at all.

All right.

Because it was a man for it, and they wanted a private meeting to just get into the country on it.

This one time, Bill said it would be wrong to bring Aaronson and Griffin in on that basis.

All right.

If you...

If you want to expand it, we should go all the way to the full leadership meeting.

We won't have a leadership meeting.

Why don't we have Scott Ford and then have a leadership meeting the same day?

We might do that.

We have a leadership meeting in town.

All right.

We're going to set up the following meeting.

Oh, no, no.

That's not what we don't need.

Scott and Porter, that is the leadership meeting.

That's where we're at.

That's right.

They go back and say they have a leadership meeting.

That's good.

Fine.

It's kind of, you know, it gives you a different pattern.

Right.

Good.

Fine.

But that's made at 8.30, right?

Don't go through the breakfast routine and all that sort of thing.

Or do you believe you have to do breakfast?

No.

I won't do it.

We should not.

That's the only reason I raised it.

I wasn't sure that Steve would check back with you after our conversation.

If that's it, that's fine.

They aren't going to get into that, because this is, they want, want, uh, ash, earth, and coal in the meeting.

All right.

So it's a, you're clear on the other.

That's a good, that's a good chance for me to get ash, earth, and coal.

All right.

Okay.

Well, it's amazing the weather we've got here.

We get better weather in Washington than we've had in any place we've been in.

This is Florida or California, it's legal.

That would be a great day to put it on.

Would you raise with Henry a thought that I had?

I'd like to bring it up, too.

get over the Chinese and see if they would begin inviting Harmony and Pugh to the library.

Now, what I'm getting at is that I just think it would be a hell of a nice touch.

He is an artist.

He's a great artist.

I think he'd be good with the artistry.

But I think it's a library with the artistry.

But at least explore it.

Maybe that Harmony would say, no, we don't want to.

Harmony would be no problem.

I don't know, it may be that Kluivert wanted to go alone, you know, he wanted to go alone.

Kluivert would be more likely to be the problem than Arndt, yeah.

But my opinion is, let's have him explore with the Chinese, the Kluivert thing.

Kluivert alone, I think maybe that's better.

They might have some hang-up because he's such a big favorite of the Russians.

That's why we're fighting.

He made his whole...

So he could come there and screw the Russians.

He didn't ask, but just decided that we want to...

It can be done fine, but don't raise it with me.

It can't be.

You know, I'm convinced that Lee is a brilliant chap.

I've talked to him two or three times about it.

He's a real cool cookie, isn't he?

He might be cool, but he's awful smart.

There's no judgment there, you know.

He doesn't, he licks things through and all that.

He's really, he's not cocky.

So if you see the trouble with a cocky guy, he'll come in and

I have a lot of revival that God never even will check his facts.

He's just the other way.

He hasn't always checked his facts, but he never covers up what he has.

He just says he doesn't know.

Yeah.

God, he's been through the rain.

I look at the heart trying to keep all this piece together.

You know, it's everything's turning on from under in every direction.

I'm sure.

The great thing is he's got great skill in dealing with people.

He's able to, because all this is a people game, trying to keep these people on an even keel, not having someone break and go rattling off.

And all these goddamn Watergate 7 guys he's had to nurse make all these months.

And he has, he takes out all his frustrations of just pure, raw, animal, unadulterated sex.

Is that right?

Yeah.

He's quite a, yeah.

He's a surgeon.

And I guess he just solves all his hang-ups that way, and he can handle all the rest of this with real finesse.

He has an American pretty early.

And he was living with her for two years before he married her.

Fair enough.

He knew what he was getting, right?

And, you know, he's completely open about it.

So she isn't much on credit, but she's got one hell of a body.

And he says, I've got too many people to talk to already.

That's right.

Well, I must say, I'm impressed by it.

Glad to hear that.

Oh, would you tell Colson, please, in the future, all of his discussions on Watergate are to be there, and not to you or her or me.

I think it's very important to get Chuck modeled into the team.

Chuck, will you read?

He is, but, uh, he ain't locked in.

It's just better, Bob, for example, I'm not talking to anybody.

Do you agree on this?

Yep, he's a lawyer.

All right.

Bob, you can pull it all into one place instead of you getting this piece, which is... Yeah.

Mike decided to sort it out the other way.

You know, it's interesting, you know, the fact that Gray is down there in the present time.

You know, we were talking about running stands up there.

I don't know whether that's going to be better.

You know, Gray goes, when the time of Irving gets to him, Gray would have been around.

A lot of these stories are going to be old stories, you know what I mean?

But Irving, of course, will drag that down.

I don't know.

It's hard to tell.

I think my work's best.

I'm not going to stand in front of you.

He has to ask questions about every damn contribution, I think, where you go to.

See, that's the problem.

When we were talking about running him up, before we got this Pesco thing busted, and that... What the hell is the Pesco?

I don't know what I'm talking about.

It doesn't sound like Spanish.

No, it doesn't.

But he was taking...

He was looking for and taking cash, but it was all supposed to be for...

Yeah, and this was before, I mean, some of the digits didn't believe it.

I, again, I don't know if that's what the paper says, which I understand is basically true.

I mean, the Sears, Harry Sears, that position is factual.

And didn't know that it stands in all the vesicles under investigation at the time.

That would be very hard for me to believe.

He said he did, and I'm going to assume he didn't.

Oh, in Christ's name.

Mitchell did that.

Everybody, everybody is quite aware of the fact, Tom, that contributions are made by all sorts.

Where did he take, on average, $35 million?

I don't know where the hell he got it.

I couldn't do it.

I don't know.

You can't watch others.

Well, we give the best of money back.

I heard that return after the election.

Yeah.

Pretty good.

But that, the only problem there is you got, you got the man that he's high with.

Because that, that's, you know, young Don.

Don, we got to use what we can kill to hire him.

But he isn't working for the mountains.

I don't think so.

I, I'm not even sure that, I don't know what he's doing yet.

I don't know what he's doing yet.

Yeah, isn't that fantastic?

Well, let's face it, what the hell, how much better do you look at Donnie, and you look at Eisenhower, and you look at Mike Gill, and you look at the content he was in, every son of a bitch thing around here, it's unbelievable.

We've kept them out of here, which they did.

Oh, I know.

maybe kept pushing Mike into stuff the other time.

Maybe we'll do this one.

You've got to remember, too, is that, you know, Johnson's work and Trump's brother, who lived right there in Hawaii, have these problems.

I think people are so understated.

Don't you?

Yep.

I don't think they are.

I don't think Johnson's brother created the problem for him at all.

I suppose it's a problem.

Not too much.

What I was thinking I'd do would be to go up to somebody and say, say, Monday, Monday,

And I think that I don't want to get into the pattern of her being a movement experiment at all.

going two full weeks without one day off i think you're right i think that you're supposed to get tempted to do it but i think that's what breaks you down it catches up with you you know all of a sudden you feel well you know it's all right you're going i feel fine but i don't know if we did that problem for a year a couple of times and we go two or three weeks but if you break the pattern that's why the eyes

I go three o'clock in the morning on the goddamn course.

And when you come in, the point is, we wouldn't drink.

We would dress before we came.

We'd go out, take tea off, finish, get in the car, go back, go over to this day's house and change.

And that's not going to predict it.

It's pretty much better.