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Conversation 867-034

TapeTape 867StartFriday, March 2, 1973 at 4:08 PMEndFriday, March 2, 1973 at 5:05 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Bull, Stephen B.;  Meyer, Charles A.Recording deviceOval Office
AI Summary

President Nixon met with Charles A. Meyer to review various ambassadorial appointments and discuss U.S. policy towards Latin America. The two assessed potential candidates for diplomatic posts, including the replacement for the ambassador in Mexico and leadership in Peru, while emphasizing the need for more effective engagement in the region. Nixon encouraged Meyer to remain available for future administrative assignments and international delegations, particularly regarding Inter-American affairs, following Meyer's transition back to the private sector at Sears.

Latin AmericaAmbassadorial appointmentsDiplomacyForeign policyCharles A. MeyerCorporate relations
AudioNARA Description

On March 2, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and Charles A. Meyer met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 867-034 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 867-34

Date: March 2, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:08 pm and 5:05 pm
                                            -48-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. June-2010)
                                                              Conversation No. 867-34 (cont’d)

Location: Oval Office

The President met with Charles A. Meyer; Stephen B. Bull and the White House photographer
were present at the beginning of the meeting.

       Introduction

       Photographs

       Ambassadorial appointments
           -Ronald W. Reagan
                 -Governors conference
           -Mexico
                 -Robert H. McBride
                       -Temporary leave
                       -Hospitalization
                 -New ambassador
                 -President's knowledge of Latin America
                 -Type of appointee
                       -Career State Department
           -Argentina
                 -John D. Lodge
                       -Background
           -John B. Connally
                 -Dealings with Ambassador Lodge
                       -Hong Kong
                       -Lodge's age
           -Brazil
                 -[Unintelligible name]
                       -Maurice H. Stans
                 -Emilio Garrastazu Medici
                 -Present ambassador [William M. Roundtree]
                       -Other jobs
                              -South Africa
                              -Previous tours
                                    -Pakistan, South Africa, Brazil
                       -Meyer's opinions
                              -Educational background
                       -Retirement
                                   -49-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              (rev. June-2010)
                                                     Conversation No. 867-34 (cont’d)

                       -Presidential appointment
                 -Reappointment
     -Latin America
           -Taylor G. Belcher
                 -Peru
           -John Crimmins
                 -Dominican Republic
                 -Abilities
                 -Career status
                 -Age
     -Europe
     -Latin America
           -Tour
                 -Danger
     -Medici
           -Meeting
     -Dwight D. Eisenhower
           -Panama

Latin America
      -US policy
            -Need for effectiveness
      -Carlos de Santa Maria
            -Meeting
                  -National Security Council [NSC]
                        -Recommendations
            -Organization of American States [OAS] position
            -Ambassador to US
            -Meeting with President
            -Pro-American leanings
            -Columbian national
      -New initiatives
            -Financing
            -William J. Casey
                  -Economist

Meyer’s job at Sears
     -Pension
Herbert G. Klein
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              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. June-2010)
                                                   Conversation No. 867-34 (cont’d)

        -Age
        -Departure from administration
        -Earning potential

Sears
        -Meyer’s experience
        -Meyer’s meeting with President
              -Jim Worthy
              -Chicago
              -General Ward
        -Meyer's job
              -Duties
                    -Public relations
                           -Ralph Nader [?]
        -New president
              -Gordon Metcalf's retirement
              -Arthur Ward
        -Meyer's qualities
        -International work
              -Latin America, Spain, Belgium
        -Residence
              -Chicago

Corporations
     -Environmental issues [?]
     -Lobbyists
           -Base in Washington
           -Upgrading
           -United States Steel
                 -Lobbyist named White
                       -Abilities
     -Washington corporate representatives
     -Environmental issues

Meyer's future
    -Work with administration in future
            -Head of delegation
    -Work with Carlos de Santa Maria, Inter-American Affairs
                                            -51-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. June-2010)
                                                                 Conversation No. 867-34 (cont’d)

        Casey
             -Work on Latin American affairs

Meyer left at 5:05 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

President, Charles Meyer.
Well, who comes in?
Right now, Charlie.
Thank you, sir.
Come back upstairs.
Well, good to see you tonight.
Thank you.
It was a privilege.
Let's get it going.
Thank you, sir.
Sit down.
What the?
You've got a man, Tim Miller.
He's right here.
Wait a minute.
What do you think, Charlie, about, I'm going to ask you about a couple of questions.
Well, Reagan, I mean, yesterday, a few days ago, the governor said about Mexico, I thought we got a kid for the bride.
A lot of people are not dressed.
I understand there's the question of keeping him.
He should be kept as a career man.
But the question is, should he be in Mexico?
I see.
He's in a short disposition.
He's at the moment at Brookton Hospital in San Antonio.
Well, I don't know what that sounds like.
But the reason, the only reason I had the, the fact that I thought that Mexico, that Mercurial followed in there, we probably needed a new guy in there.
Do you, do you think so or not?
I think we need a new guy.
Yeah.
And the thing is, I'm trying to, I'm trying to.
No, we know better than you.
Yeah, that's it.
You were the only president of the United States at that time.
I don't know much about it, but let me say that in Mexico, what would you have there?
Would you go with the rear?
Yes, I'd go with the rear.
Huh?
I'd go with the rear.
If you could get it.
See, now tell me about Argentina, largely.
Yes, sir.
I think you've done everything you deserve.
What is this financial situation?
Huh?
You got a hand in it?
In the name of God, this is the end.
Mr. President, can I tell you John's tragedy?
Where is it?
The second son of a Massachusetts fan.
He stopped talking.
Well, now I feel for him.
I love him.
I do.
But you know, you can do that once, but you can't do it three times.
And I know what John Connolly told me.
He went,
Well, that's too bad.
It has to be.
It has to go there.
uh... uh...
Yeah, it was cool to do with my pedigree though, of course.
I'm talking about a great book about that.
I've never studied with him, or any of his books.
Do you think you consider him one of the best?
I think he's the kind of guy that qualifies in a range of ways to stay in a career in the best way possible.
He's retired from the college service.
How old is he?
50 years or something like that.
Well, that's right.
He retired at the time.
So you'd have to make him general chancellor.
Well, he'd have to be presidential appointee to continue on the policies.
Do you think we should ask him to?
Yes, sir.
I have heard that.
What's your opinion?
Too close.
And you'd ask him to?
Looking over the rest of the month, who is the one you're trying to investigate?
That's in the field.
There's a little way over there.
We've got a couple of hot spots in the world.
Belcher, Peru.
Belcher, is he the secret courier?
Yes, sir.
Good man.
Very good.
And my right arm, who will fill in for me, elected tomorrow morning, John Crimmins, who came to me from the Atlantic Department.
He could?
Mr. President, he can do it.
John, is he the courier?
He's a good man.
Now, what's his age?
Exactly the same as mine.
Well, we've got to turn.
You know, we're going to have a holiday of time this year with Europe.
We've got to work on that.
But we're going to start doing something in Latin America.
What we can do, I don't know.
As you know, it's Latin America.
It's like a sponge, isn't it?
But they kind of, you know, the world is moving us instead of moving us.
Also, the position of President of the United States, what kind of imagination do you have?
People now kind of love the guitar.
What would you do?
I think we'd do something.
I've been thinking, for example, you know what we did in the last four years?
We couldn't go for a very big job.
I would work on it at any time.
Now, let's see if that works out.
Sometimes it probably should.
I don't know what we could do.
Is a meeting at all a good idea?
Mine might be without even being too substantive.
Just to get together and get to know each other.
Eisenhower did that, you know, a long, long years ago.
You know, when you think of the alliance, which was built up so big, it must be a lot of very poor members.
God damn it, we've got to do better or not in America.
You know, it is important.
So we've got to support our friends.
Could I be the end and punch your ass, Mr. President?
Yeah, great.
Could I just throw in something?
There is a pending recommendation to you, I believe, from the NSC staff, that Carlos de Santa Maria conceive of being OIA next couple of weeks.
He's the OAS yesterday, and he used to be a pastor here, and he's in a very crucial position now, which is
Related to Austin.
You think I should see him?
Yes, Austin.
Okay.
It's hard to recognize him, but he's a fine man.
And that helps.
It does.
It helps.
And he plays our game pretty well.
He is our guy.
Bless him.
Carlson.
And he is your man.
He's Colombian.
He's Colombian.
And he's your man.
I'll get him.
But don't.
You know, we always try to think of new initiatives like that.
That's damn near impossible, isn't it?
Without money.
Even then.
If you'd given me a blank check, I wouldn't have known how to help you.
So what we need is a lot of attention, tender love and care, and a couple of surrogates for you, like Bill Casey, that you can say, Bill, I want you to get your ass down.
Yeah, I want you to get your ass down, and I want you to focus on that.
Casey, can you tell him that for me?
I'll tell him.
You tell him that we talked about it, and I want him to talk to me about it.
That would be great for
He's full of things.
He's restless.
And he's those economics.
And it's an economic problem.
And they know Bill doesn't have social interests in particular.
They like him because he's a sucker.
Don't you think?
Absolutely.
And it's an economic problem.
Tommy and Sears, what will you do when you go back?
I'm not sure.
They have been wonderful to me and guaranteed me from the time I joined you.
They guaranteed me reappointment.
Yeah.
Well, of course, at your age, Mr.
That's a marvelous comment, marvelous comment.
Before, you, the Chairman of the International Committee, were in charge of half the company, one way or another.
You know, you don't remember.
The first time I met you was when Jim Whitty brought you to Chicago and talked to General Wood and some of the old-time Republicans in 50-some-odd years ago.
Yes?
Yes.
What do you want to do this year?
Well, I told him that what I would like to do, I don't want to run against or for the chairmanship
They filled that in my ass.
But there is something, sir, that I believe in, and that is what I call the corporate, in my words, I'm not calling it a GE, I call it corporate environment.
Does that have to do with what personal?
It has to do with everything that the publicly owned private sector has to contend with in the world in which we live.
from NATO on the one hand, to the Democratic wing on the other.
Well, let me say this.
Your president is serious now, still, as we said.
Well, they just changed.
They just changed?
It wasn't Metcalf.
He was out.
He's out.
Oh, and what's he doing?
He retired tonight.
He retired?
In 1965.
Gee, he's an excellent man.
And who's coming in?
I don't know.
It was just fine.
It was just fine.
Well, I heard, advising him,
You know, you are so damn good with people.
You really are so good with people.
The corporation must, both with its own people and with the outside, must not be too impersonal.
Sirius, of course, is not impersonal, but I don't know.
You don't think you want to do international work with them?
That's what I think you could do.
Well, I think it's inevitable that I would.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is all your experience.
Not America.
I don't want to lose this president there.
Spain and Belgium.
And the world is long.
You're president of the United States.
You're also president of the world.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Will you live in Chicago?
Probably.
That's like persuading abortion.
It's just as effective.
No, I'm not either.
You know, this whole environmental and the other things, these big corporations are going to have to have their doors washed with other than lobbyists.
Yes, sir.
Other than lobbyists.
You see, the lobbyists basically don't do companies much good.
They don't know a thing or two, Dan, frankly.
But if you have somebody in Washington who's basically a high-class person, then instead of them running down from Washington to Chicago, not knowing their ass in first base,
And they just call up and say, Charlie, we got a little problem here.
Would you go in and check?
And you're here.
You're in the environment.
That's what they need.
You can tell that gap.
Well, I know him well.
I really feel that the companies, big companies, all should upgrade their Washington representation.
U.S. Steel years ago did that.
They got a call named White.
And White was so complimentary.
He was complimentary to me.
that he was just like you may have thought he'd be like you'd think you were meeting him in the company.
And that's the kind of person that ought to be representing a company in Washington.
The national capital needs us.
Don't you think so?
Yes.
But in other countries, they do that.
But you see, generally speaking, the quality of Washington representatives here, of big companies, is not high.
Not that high.
There's some good men.
But they have not impressed me.
Have they...
No, they spend too much time at Burning Creek and all that sort of thing.
You might say there's a partisan pride, except for the eight years of doing labor in office.
And your lifetime of mine hasn't been on exactly the same attitude.
Well, there will be now.
There will be now.
But you know, with all this unusual stuff in the environment.
Well, I wish you well, and we would like, I'd like for you, if you would, I've already told our people here at Emerson that we would like to call on you on occasion, if you would like, and if you see something you'd like to do, like if there's a, if you want to take a trip or something like that, we'd like to, what my man is, as one of these things, head of the delegation,
I think that's when you're out, you don't want to go back to any, you know, full-time capacity, but it's good to sort of get to putting the water in.
I told Carlos Santamaria, you could have made a note about, that I would continue to work with him or in the Inter-American Army.
Great, great.
I'm at your service, Mr. President.
Great.
With pride and humility.
Well, sir, we appreciate it.
Thank you.
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