{"conversationCode":"869-005","tapeNumber":869,"conversationNumber":5,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-869-005","startDateTime":"1973-03-06T13:25:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-03-06T13:30:00.000Z","startDate":"6-Mar-1973","startTime":"8:25 AM","endDate":"6-Mar-1973","endTime":"8:30 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Timmons, William E.; Ehrlichman, John D.;","description":"On March 6, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, William E. Timmons, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the Oval Office of the White House from 8:25 am to 8:30 am. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 869-005 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 869-5\n\nDate: March 6, 1973\nTime: 8:25 am - 8:30 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with John D. Ehrlichman and William E. Timmons.\n\n       Congressional relations\n            -Ehrlichman's meeting with Hugh Scott and Gerald R. Ford\n                   -Ehrlichman's briefing\n                   -Ford\n                   -Scott\n                                      -4-\n\n            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                               Tape Subject Log\n                                (rev. May-2010)\n                                                      Conversation No. 869-5 (cont’d)\n\n\n\n                   -Attitude\n\n     -President's visit to Congress\n            -Senate policy lunch\n                  -Scott\n            -Scheduling conflict\n                  -Democratic study group\n\n     -Ehrlichman's meeting with Scott and Ford\n           -Republican senators’ support for President\n                 -Responsibility for tax increase\n     -Presidential veto\n            -Support in Senate, House\n                 -Ford\n     -Senate\n            -Carl T. Curtis's visits to White House\n                 -1972 election results\n            -Ehrlichman's evaluation of Republican Senators\n                 -Curtis\n                 -Ted Stevens\n\nRepublican leaders\n     -Ford\n            -Positive feedback\n     -Scott\n            -Subjects of discussion\n     -Meeting with Ehrlichman\n\nPress relations\n      -Democratic reforms\n             -Analysis\n                  -Conservative columnists\n                  -Charles W. Colson\n                       -Compared with 1972 campaign, convention\n\nPresident's meeting with Scott and Ford\n      -Arrival\n                                               -5-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                       Tape Subject Log\n                                        (rev. May-2010)\n                                                             Conversation No. 869-5 (cont’d)\n\n\n\nEhrlichman and Timmons left at 8:30 am.","filename":["869-005.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Timmons, William E.","Ehrlichman, John D."],"prevCode":"869-004","nextCode":"869-006","transcript":[{"start":21.57,"end":25.13,"text":"And he will come in with also a lot of stupidest thing I heard."},{"start":25.19,"end":31.57,"text":"I'm really surprised I came in here was the idea that I would consider going down to the Senate policy."},{"start":31.59,"end":33.97,"text":"Well, let's not raise it, Bill."},{"start":33.99,"end":34.37,"text":"I will raise it."},{"start":34.43,"end":35.59,"text":"Oh, he's not going to raise it."},{"start":35.63,"end":36.38,"text":"I'm not going to raise it."},{"start":36.44,"end":37.34,"text":"I'm going to say fine."},{"start":37.64,"end":38.7,"text":"That's all I'm going to do is say fine."},{"start":38.72,"end":39.48,"text":"I'm going to fight it out."},{"start":52.21,"end":58.02,"text":"Well, I did last time, and maybe too bluntly, I don't know."},{"start":110.48,"end":111.22,"text":"Because he's got 53%."},{"start":112.1,"end":114.46,"text":"We've got a separate officer."},{"start":114.94,"end":116.88,"text":"We ask you to do everything."},{"start":117.28,"end":118.58,"text":"What's the matter with you?"},{"start":118.62,"end":121.25,"text":"Well, he's a semi-neurotic up there."},{"start":121.37,"end":125.43,"text":"Like him, like Stevens, there are a bunch of them."},{"start":126.17,"end":127.06,"text":"Well, I'm sorry."},{"start":127.08,"end":128.54,"text":"No, that's very good."},{"start":141.46,"end":144.1,"text":"But, uh, it's a, it's a,"},{"start":186.2,"end":188.16,"text":"I don't want to get out."},{"start":188.8,"end":189.28,"text":"That analysis."},{"start":189.32,"end":191.06,"text":"Don't have it done by you."},{"start":191.08,"end":193.49,"text":"Have it done outside, let it close to us."},{"start":193.63,"end":194.29,"text":"Outside group management."},{"start":195.09,"end":197.89,"text":"Because that's a gradient analysis."},{"start":198.07,"end":206.94,"text":"It's just like the convention, that it's a fundamental change in the whole... Well, I'm going to treat this very partly like boo-boos here."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with John Ehrlichman and William Timmons to coordinate upcoming interactions with Republican congressional leadership, specifically Senators Hugh Scott and Gerald Ford. The discussion centered on managing legislative relations, assessing the loyalty of Republican senators, and addressing potential conflicts regarding presidential visits to the Senate. Additionally, the President directed that a strategic analysis of Democratic political reforms be outsourced to external consultants rather than conducted in-house to maintain a degree of separation.","topics":["Congressional relations","Republican Party leadership","Legislative strategy","Political analysis","White House operations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-08T22:45:47.474Z"},"topicSlugs":["congressional-relations","republican-party-leadership","legislative-strategy","political-analysis","white-house-operations"],"audioDurationSec":225,"audioFiles":[{"file":"869-005.mp3","bytes":2000896,"durationSec":225.31,"bitrate":71046,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:00.696Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/869-005.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/869-005","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/869/conversation-869-005","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}