Nixon, Wilson & Ziegler on Law enforcement and Capital punishment

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I thought you may want to mention your remarks so we won't release you by the future.

We're lowering the cross now.

Yes, sir.

You signed an executive order.

Lowering the cross.

Just for one day, except the day of the term, which is the morning of the 7th.

All right.

But I don't think you can come.

Then I'll come to make it.

I don't want to feel as if you're hiring me.

But that option is open.

I want to make sure you work.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

Finally, it would be helpful to me to sit in this, just as an observer, in a meeting with the counselors that's happening on this domestic side, if you don't mind.

Okay.

But it's good for me to hear something.

Sure.

What else are they raising today?

Not much, you know, gray, a lot of green.

No, no, no, no, no.

Good morning, sir.

Good to see you.

Well, I think it just kind of keeps up the progress.

I think that's the, uh, that's it over here.

It doesn't matter.

I think you've had the best before.

Oh, I'll leave there with you.

I wrote a couple of inaugural letters.

John, let's ask, we can't, we don't want to say it, but I'd ask the chief to start on it.

Well, I think you'd better ask him first.

Yeah, all right.

See what his reaction is to it.

The main thing is this.

Let me say it before these comments get in here.

I have studied the situation.

You're the best police chief in the country.

The second one is that you have on the worst job, the worst places.

I mean, this is a, many of you can forget, this is a great question on our black people, but that Washington is a black city now.

It's so easy.

Don't try that.

and also being able, for the purpose of trying to be available on it, to be able to do things that are very hard for us to do, or to ask, or to inspire, and also to be able to do things that are very hard.

Everyone, everyone, everyone gets his middle-aged blood.

You know, most of us go to the psychiatrist, and I get to go to the president.

Successfully, uh, that's a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh,

Yes, sir.

I want you to know what I'm talking about.

How far am I to see these distinguished citizens that have come out for legalization of marijuana?

We need that in our whole life.

I don't think marijuana is allowed to be banned, but it's the wrong signal.

My law enforcement speech, despite it, which I am the only one in the White House that's been able to take this position possibly for such a period, I am totally against legalization, and I will so state my own question.

So it's got to be stated so you may have to take all the inputs on your citizens.

Second point.

I went over to the State Department for a very, you know, set occasion to command that two men were killed.

Where do I list them?

And if there was anything that ever made me feel a capital punishment, something I've always been for, it was right and necessary.

It's not right and necessary.

It's just necessary.

It was what happened there.

Now, Quindes just made a sort of modest statement, but it's going to be John in that message.

I'm coming out for a capital punishment for certain crimes, and that God damn Supreme Court had better uphold it.

You've got to get a capital punishment so lives can be sorted tonight.

against capital crimes, let's suppose, I'm cheap, but here in this town, I had a poor, a suitable ambassador here.

He's shaken.

He's scared to death because they've got these guys over there, and they're probably going to execute him.

I hope they do.

But if they do, he says, you know, Mr. President, I'm even next.

That's right.

Now, therefore, I want to be sure of the executive protection.

I don't want him grabbed.

But if he is grabbed, and we catch him,

be any screwing around.

And if he is grabbed, we're going to have capital punishment on how these people sit around here and get a positive behavior through the years.

And that's, I'm clear, that's the problem.

That's not it.

The third point was the second.

I don't know if I'm going to take the capital punishment on hard, but I think there's a lot on hard.

We are also going to do it.

John, that's got to be it.

The third thing I want to include

Along those lines, it's one that I know is very controversial, but I decided to cross the bridge on it.

That is, we're going to have to have mandatory sentences.

We're not going to get them.

We're going to pass them.

Let them try to get them.

Mandatory sentences for extreme cases of drug pushers.

Now, I know that people say if you have mandatory sentences, then the judges will not oppose any.

But at the present time, the drug pushers are the rest.

They get in and they say, I'm an addict and so forth.

We don't treat them well here or something.

We can't prevent them no more.

So I think we should know that those three are our things.

You see, John, that way, somebody would pay attention to our law enforcement speech.

I just don't do it.

Recite the statistics, which are damn good, and say we're going to continue to pour out $750 million into the ADA.

Then get back to the course of that.

These three things are going in that speech on hail or high water.

Is that clear to you?

I decided it.

I know that most of the Justice Department people and people that I've talked to, I brought up this sentence.

It's a mandatory sentence.

As a lawyer, I understand the difficulty of it.

I know for sure.

I couldn't have Bill Cahill in New Jersey against the drug police for it.

Rocketball, who was a great liberal, wouldn't be for it unless he knew there was an enormous problem and tremendous public support for it.

And I just think it's a good signal, unless that's the Congress turned down.

So these are things that I'm talking about.

I want you to be aware of it.

I don't want to bother you.

No, not really.

I share the practical problem with the mandatory sentences that they really don't get closed.

judges, by having this sort of thing, a public assignment for it, maybe judges then will be more likely to impose sentences on these people when your guys risk their lives to bring them justice.

Yes, sir, but I really have to make the point that, you know, in this jurisdiction, and in most, no, that the judges are not the ones that can put sentences.

Sentences are under the Department of Corrections.

Oh, yes, for all of us.

I don't, we can't lose sight of the fact that judges sentence people to jail in this jurisdiction who don't serve time.

They serve their time on the streets.

They literally serve their time.

John, I need to tell you that.

I mean, I know this here.

We're here to hold the problem halfway.

And, you know, I'm all for rebuilding, you know, for prisons and all that sort of thing.

But we just can't have a situation where he says that the judge is sentenced and they serve their time.

We ought to say something about soft judges.

We ought to say something about permissive parole officers, etc., etc.

In other words, we should have rehabilitation on the other hand.

when it's deserved.

We can't just have compassion for the criminal, which means risking the lives and the property of the innocent.

With marijuana, I'm not sure what career.

I would guess four years from now, we may see legalization.

Sure.

But if we do, somebody should run the office on it.

That's right.

Let me say, I don't love you about it.

I know that it's not particularly dangerous.

I know most of the kids are legalized.

But on the other hand,

It's the wrong signal this time.

That's my point.

You can't get the signal.

Well, because it's John who used the term on this, what he once said.

It's crossing the threshold, what did you say, John?

Well, it's a boundary line.

In the drug culture?

No, the non-drug culture.

Yeah.

And if you're crossing it, you use the better term.

What's the frontier?

Well, it's going to take back what Senator has said.

But you see, once you cross it, then you go to something else.

Now, I know what your argument is.

Well, alcohol is bad.

It is.

It's not what I should drink.

They're not here.

And maybe a lot of other things.

Maybe cigarettes won't be as bad.

Maybe a Coca-Cola is bad.

Coffee is bad, according to George Romney and the Mormons.

And they don't drink.

That's right.

But Marietta Sells fell in love.

I don't mind if we don't get it.

This is a vicious editorial.

Can I get this for him?

It would be something wrong.

It's a big controversy.

I want to discuss.

And then, John, maybe after it's discussed, we'll decide not to do it.

But we'll end up in between.

It's a bargaining.

Well, that's what Nelson Rockmore is after.

Sure, he's hypoed the problem.

He's got everybody in the United States talking about it, John.

And I want to hypo it.

I want to hypo it.

in terms of the situation where we get it back on an anti-stress, and maybe we'll come down to something else.

You know, I'm sure you know that, but our heroin traffic is quite far down.

There's a little bit more cocaine.

There's a lot more marijuana.

But in terms of heroin, did you really turn the thing around?

You could get them off of heroin and marijuana.

Well, let's go ahead and get them off of heroin and leave them at heroin.

This is one of the things that is terrible.

It's hard to get.

It's dangerous.

Marijuana is what's in the treatment, and it's really a pretty good success story.

It is a good success story.

Marijuana is way up, and I think part of it is what you said, that some of the users are there when they're using marijuana, and there's a great deal of use by others, but frankly, it doesn't look like there's enough for anyone to run for office.

You see, on my marijuana point, John, I had no problem with it.

There should be an evaluation of penalties on it, and there should not be these penalties that, you know, Texas, they didn't have the children released, and they're 10 years in jail, and they're on a death row.

In other words, the penalties should be commensurate with the crime.

I know that.

In the paper the other day, my father turned in his old wife.

Oh, I did.

And then after, he said, I didn't realize the penalty.

Well, so he was sentenced to 30 years.

Right.

This is not a time to let down the bars and to encourage, basically, people to break over this threshold into the drug culture, from the non-drug culture.

But on the other hand, you see what I mean?

It goes against the, what's that, that last thought, that former governor, Shane, who says, you know,

Now that, now that, now that, where does the, where does the next stand with regard to the criminal, uh, with regard to the, uh, uh, life sentences?

I mean, the, the, the death penalty, not, the crime exchange statement about a month ago.

Where does the next stand?

I believe what justice has recommended, Mr. President, is that for a second time, the eviction of an amazing trafficker, life without parole.

Well, that's in her contract.

That's in her contract.

The death penalty, as I recall, is a free court decision.

What it related to was that it was too uncertain, basically.

So let the Congress have it.

What I wanted was to ask the Congress to apply to require that that kind of kidnapping, or in other words, list about virus as a bomb.

Their suggestion has taken a different tack.

They have said we'll have the death penalty for four areas.

or any federal crime where death results.

They feel that statute will be clearly upheld.

The death of six votes in the court, and you'll have a death penalty.

And that was second consideration by the jury.

What they don't have is the automatic imposition of death penalty for kidnapping or hijacking if no one gets killed.

But if the victim dies, then they get the death penalty.

Now they go up to 30 years

for the penalties of kidnapping hijacking.

But not in that sense.

Now, they know that if you just say, yeah, he gets killed, you're not going to be in charge of the kidnapping and hijacking.

Everybody gets kidnapped and hijacked, and they just aren't going to kill the person.

I don't know.

We can turn it back and phrase it either way.

Their point is, if you are kidnapping someone,

Now the administration's policy, or it is not at this point, it's just a statement of claim.

It's in behalf of the administration, but when measured against some of the things that you said previously, there's room for questions.

Let's say that we are sending legislation that is prepared to go right after your suspension.

Now you're talking.

And then let's get that in, and let's get the drug given name.

And let the rock colors stand.

which may, you'll have to hone, I mean, make it more precise.

It's a beautiful narrative.

It's great.

Five years for a chapter, ten years for a major chapter, and life without parole for a second time.

It's the second time.

I've been convicted twice.

Life in prison without parole.

All right.

That's good.

That sounds good.

All right.

It's time to say now.

I've got to go to the state in the meantime.

Well, let me say, you're a service.

I know you talked to John about your own, your future, and your desire.

Let me put it this way.

If you could take this job on for another, shall we say, let's say two years, but we'll negotiate that.

You take the job on.

I will assure you that if you want to remain in government service, and you may not want to, but you want to, that we will find something worthy of your talents, if you'd like to do it.

Because you don't want to be a cheapo.

I can tell you that I'll want John to handle it.

You work out what you want.

What about it, John?

Well, it's important to us.

It's important to the mayor to have the chief stay on the control for a time.

I don't need to work with John.

Let's start thinking now.

Let's start thinking about what to do.

Let the chief consider what you would like to do because there might be something.

You know, he should move into an area of

Well, Mr. President, I'm going to do what you want.

You've supported me too much, and my problem is one of, quite frankly, a little bit of boredom.

I've been doing the job for four years and

that will relieve the border.

No, really?

Well, I... Why not a school for police chiefs?

Well, I was going to say, you know, I know some things that other departments need to know.

Yeah.

Particularly about crowd control and some of those kinds of things.

Right.

And if he wants to do some traveling, would you do that for us?

Why don't you put him in some of the major cities?

Right.

That would be something.

As part of our LEAA program.

Right.

Our representative to the president, I'm going to have to go to higher offices in the LEAA.

As a matter of fact, I'll just say, they just want the money.

He goes as my representative.

And he goes there for the purpose of sharing with the police departments about some of their devices.

And also for the purpose of getting from them their views.

How does that sound to you?

I really don't need anything but to say, I mean, except, you know, you want me to say, you know, we might not know it, but this will be good for us.

Because you've got a record of accomplishment.

And really, really, I still want to do this.

He's had tremendous experience in black people.

He's probably the expert in the country.

You can go tell him what he did.

I'm proud of you.

and my 11-year-old asked for your autograph.

Well, I guess.

I hate to tell you, but my 7-year-old told me to tell you that he was from the government.

Oh, that's... Let's see.

How about that?

What's yours?

It's a bribe.

I told him to go back and never tell anyone.

You, you're not still playing golf, are you, Chief?

No, sir.

No, you're all right.

I'm not going to make a pop.

You're spending my time.

I don't think I've got a thing here for you.

Is that an asterisk?

No.

That's all you get.

I'll give you an asterisk.

That's for you and your wife.

That's good.

So I've got to get you something for that.

Bring me an asterisk, Chief.

Thank you.

you

Nixon, Wilson & Ziegler on Law enforcement and Capital punishment

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 6, 1973

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