Nixon, Kissinger & Bull on Foreign Policy and Vietnam War

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But you've spoiled everybody, Mr. President, because...

You're always very curious to them.

You've taken every wrong decision yourself.

They should feel that they should ask themselves what can they do to make your life easier, not what you can do to fight their battles.

And there is this endless fiction, but still there's a different quality now to the debate.

There is a...

I'm talking about the politics.

Yes.

The Republicans.

I know the Republicans.

I know what you're doing.

You're talking about Scott and Ford.

Ford and Scott.

Scott.

You mentioned the Senators.

Oh, Scott.

These guys, none of them, for Christ's sakes, can run anywhere near where we did the last time.

Why don't they run?

Because the Republicans, Mr. President, have become an irresponsible party.

As a party.

Sure.

They've had two great vote-getters who got them.

elected, but who got them the presidency, but they have not been a governing party since 1932 as a party of Congress.

And so they are crabby little men who have gotten into the habit of opposition, oppose even their own president, don't feel that this is their government.

They're entirely a sort of little clique of congressional diehards

That is the big problem.

I mean, there's no crisis.

I apparently didn't get across the point I was trying to make.

It looks like we have somebody on the call.

Apparently causing this breathing of these.

I told him I didn't want Henry to do it because I want to cover foreign policy tonight.

Roger just told me he's coming over to do it.

Now, who's reading this?

The Secretary of State.

There was to be no foreign policy period of what sorts.

There was to be only on trade.

It's got to be in the U.S. now.

It's time to say it.

You see, in my remarks, I'll have to start preparing something if I...

If he goes over Congress foreign policy, then I can't do it.

I'll have to look at it.

It was to be one of those three people, Dr. Kissinger.

I don't get it.

It just has to be just a little bit better coordination.

I should know, shouldn't I?

Yes, sir.

I'd love to know myself.

It's all rather expensive.

I'll check with you later.

And I, he won't need to do it now.

They better get it across to them.

You've got to get it through his goddamn head that they are not to do this without reforming in the future.

Are you sure you get, I told him.

I told him these six people are out there.

You told me as well, Mr. President.

I told him.

You spoke with me on this, and I spoke directly with the bus, and those three areas.

Come in, let me know, will you?

It's a tough, titty business.

It's a tough, titty world.

The world is not all that safe.

If we have a moment right on the razor's edge of opportunity, at a time when we're even with the Soviet, when we're actually behind,

China's the sign of Soviet gain, but it's a delicate gain.

The whole thing can fall right down.

That's why this is the year to do these various things.

We don't know how we're going to do it.

Otherwise, I think my analysis was correct.

I thought it was correct.

I thought it was a good decision.

It's another thing.

You know, it's no reflection on Bill necessarily, but he couldn't do that.

He couldn't.

No, you need...

You have a lot of experience, more than any public figure I've ever met.

Nelson couldn't do this.

I'm just thinking somebody I have a very high regard for.

I mean, it's so natural to you that you just do it automatically.

And it requires some thinking.

Now, when you sit over there and work through these questions and answers for the press conference where you basically don't have...

Anyhow, we had suggestions, but they always had your attention.

Yeah, but still, you put them into your framework.

Or when you have these tough decisions to make, no one knows how many hours you sit there alone working it out, and out, and over, and over, and over.

I said this to Barbara Walters on that TV show.

I don't know whether you saw it, but I said, people say the president has read whatever he does.

You know, I'm sorry that you followed that.

But it's probably good that the Foreign Service gets something that they can be proud of.

People have got to be proud of their people, you know.

They were able to go to prison halfway rather than kiss their ass.

It was a perfect occasion.

It was absolutely dignified.

They did it with pride, and there was another thing.

The first time you went there, they were sort of going to do you after you were the president.

What the hell could they do?

This time, they take pride in what you did, because deep down they know there wasn't anyone else who could have brought about this revolution in our foreign policy.

There's just no question what the history books are going to show.

We play this smart.

We're going to keep the Russians and Chinese in tandem.

We can have a major progress in Europe this year.

We're going to get there.

That's the toughest.

That's the toughest because you've got these party chiefs running this goddamn...

I'd like to go over and speak on international terrorism as it relates to the recent assassinations and just be confined to that subject.

And then you take the broadest land trade, sir.

And international trade.

And terrorism.

Sir, I'll put it in the agency.

Flanagan was going to cover international trade, sir.

So let him depart my order.

Schultz will be here.

Schultz, I'm going to talk to him.

Yes, sir.

I'll let him talk about terrorism and the rest of it.

And just confine it to that one area so that you can take it for our sleep tonight.

And then, let me, would you see this?

Apparently, that you can get the word across.

We're not going to report all this.

We already understand it.

We already know.

We already understand it.

So what happened?

I'm curious.

Well, I think really that, you know, in fairness to them, when planning a drop-down, they look for an acceptable substitute.

You know, it's like you told them.

You told them.

I think Secretary Rodgers said, oh, you can't do anything that much.

Just let it go, let it go.

I don't think that's right.

You see, he's going to have questions and answers, too.

They shouldn't give these factors that much anyway.

They're not his fault.

Oh, my God.

I think Secretary Rodgers took that on a limited subject.

When he's introducing it, he can only spend a limited amount of time on it.

That's what I said.

Yes, sir.

Secretary Rapp is to take that limited scope today.

Your remarks tonight would still, you know, not be redundant to anything today, sir.

Well, I don't think you can bear any of that going on.

You're talking about Paris.

You followed through taking... Why does he talk about the Paris conflict?

But can't he talk about international economics?

He doesn't know that subject.

He's very used to that subject.

He's spoken across that incident.

Now, you've got to concede a few remarks over there about the United States holding the line against international black men.

We'll also talk about the Paris conference.

Don't need to cover those.

I'll try to cover those.

I want to cover foreign policy tonight, but anyone can let the gun down.

You see, if that screws it all up, I'll probably have to leave something else to say tonight, because if he steps into the foreign policy area, my remarks down there are a montage of the whole thing.

I mean, he cut Dave's father, but I don't guess it did.

Except he won't do it with your precision.

Okay.

Just don't feel the attitude on that.

Who's going to talk tonight?

Okay.

Let it go.

You see how that little thing like that's yours?

No, but... You see these people?

It shows utter stupidity on the part of some other staff.

What in the name of God did they take you out for?

You're the board of officers.

What the hell does that do?

If you had wanted that, you could have gotten a precise account from me.

You could have gotten a more precise account from me than from Rogers, but I'm glad I was taken out because I should give a partisan speech.

Well, you should give a... And then you couldn't do... Now it would be best... Foreign policy is our most distinctive thing.

It's what most of them are interested in.

And let the other people take the more controversial ones.

I think we should send very sharp notes to all of them, just so that they know it isn't free.

Yes.

What is the situation on the basement of the ceasefire?

And I noticed that those damn captains were still running.

Just take the South Vietnamese that you're there.

It was 25 to 30 a day, which would be 200 a week.

Well, but you have to look at this problem from the South Vietnamese point of view.

With all that stuff pouring in, for them just to sit there waiting until it's in place.

However, Chu has now, at our pressure, given instructions which will result in a step down of

Yeah, I see.

But what about the pressure?

Well, we have put very heavy pressure on him.

No, no, no.

What about the insultration?

Well, we have sent already a very sharp note to the North Vietnamese.

We ought to send another one, and I think we ought to let him hit some of them.

Another thing we can do, Mr. President, and which we might well consider doing,

It's just bombed the whole treatment trail for one day next week.

That's itself good enough?

No, that's enough.

Shit, why not?

Have we done that?

No, because they've got disease fire, but that's stacked supplies.

Can we get Savannah to ask for it?

Oh, yeah.

Would you say we got away with it before, all right?

If you've got enough targets, take it out.

I can say bumper to bumper on that.

All right, let's have a turkey shoot.

But why next week?

Well, let's find out.

You're worried about that?

No.

No?

Why not a turkey shoot?

Well, we want to get their answer on the infiltration first.

You messaged them about the infiltration?

Two days ago.

They gave us an answer today.

After Sullivan, which they said these are civilian goods, we sent it back.

This is unacceptable.

It's total bullshit.

That's the 150 tanks.

There are?

Yeah, and lots of 130-millimeter.

It's massive.

It's the most massive.

Well, what the hell?

We can't do it.

We can't let this go on.

Well, I think by this weekend we should hit them.

How much good will that do if it continues to come in?

I don't know.

Mr. President, there are two things.

Some of it they need in order to keep the GBM from pressuring them.

On the other hand, the reason we have the decision, they'll make the decision whether to start an offensive depending on their judgment of how irrational we are likely to be.

The advantage of hitting the trails fairly soon, for a day or two.

I do it for one day.

It's just to show them that we are not, we are not constrained.

And that may push it off over here.

And another thing we can do is to let the South Vietnamese Air Force hit them within the country.

They are bumper to bumper.

What's the word again?

And we can start hitting harder in Cambodia this week.

That we should do also to knock out some of their supplies there.

They're not eager to start again if they don't get defense that we... After all, we found...

Remember that when we put in 60 people to Cambodia three weeks ago, they didn't even protest.

You're so right, but we cannot...

Mr. President, it stayed over on South Vietnam by the end of this year.

Everything we've prized ourselves off at the beginning of this year is going to be down the drain.

All our opponents are then going to make all the same arguments.

We fought for four years.

Two years from now, if we can have enforced a period of peace, that's a different story.

What earthly reason do they give for bringing this up and replacing it?

It's an absolute violation of our legal settlement agreement.

There's no excuse for it.

Well, they can give some of it as replacement.

They could say they're emptying out the house.

That isn't true either.

They need some of it in order to keep the GBN from just grabbing everything.

But...

But basically they're just a bloody-minded bunch of sons of bitches.

Yep.

Nixon, Kissinger & Bull on Foreign Policy and Vietnam War

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 6, 1973

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