Conversation 870-002

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That's right.

I was so glad at the end of his life that before he died, he knew that the war had ended.

But I respect him in some way, in an honorable way, because he was being a very proud man, greatly concerned about his place in history.

by reason of not bugging out, he's going to look all right.

It'll take time.

It'll take time, but he will then.

I got to know how much she appreciated that.

She said, well, she didn't know he was going to die.

But the fact that almost the night before, you were kind enough to call down.

And you couldn't have guessed what was going to happen.

But it really, as you said, it made me feel that at least that place in history was going to be safe, thanks to you.

Well, let me say that I am very grateful.

We have a lot of mutual friends.

And I am very grateful.

Would you prefer tea or coffee?

I usually have coffee, but I don't drink too much of it.

It's not good for me.

But you have, from time to time, through mutual friends, given me the benefit of your counsel, most of it.

And I think that you, having, of course, spent the pamphlet of power for so many years, recognized perhaps some of what was really at stake in this last election.

And I went down three days before McGovern was going to call on the government.

Theoretically, when we went down, we were trying to inscribe the performance regulations for the library.

Actually, we went down to make sure that the reception of McGovern was as dampened as possible.

And old McCormick, I would say, did his part, too.

He's quite intelligent.

You know, at the inauguration, I did it quite deliberately.

I brought him up there to take one of the salutes because he had been the second man in this country for several years.

And he also was an American first when it came to foreign policy.

Always was.

Always stood up.

Stood up like iron.

You learn to appreciate that in this office.

You know, I don't want to give a damn about the vote.

I have to give some damn about how people feel on domestic issues, but those are things that people disagree on, whether it's this or that, all those things.

But in the foreign policy area, I just think that you've got to stand up and stand together.

And that's what it's all about.

And you probably will end this police.

They have the water's edge.

That's right.

And you know, McCormick is terribly grateful to you.

It was the first time I was in the House during your administration.

You gave a reception from the Congress, you remember?

Yeah.

But he had never forgotten that either.

Yeah, I remember.

He's a very lowly old man up in Massachusetts, but he talks like the talk on the telephone.

Sure.

But always he remembers these things.

He remembers what you did in the inauguration.

Yeah.

He remembers what you did at the reception.

We invited him to do something.

I invited him to the Israeli dinner.

He didn't come.

But I invited him.

I said, I asked him if he'd ever stay overnight in the White House, and he had not.

So I said to the person in the car, I said, now, we're going to have a steak dinner sometime.

I want you to come, and I want you to spend time.

So I've been arranging for some time, because you know, it will mean so much to him, to me, that he, because he has such a sense of history and everything,

the rest of it, so I can put it in that link.

You know, it's just, it's a great thing.

They tell me that, and Mr. President, he needs a little bit of that right now.

The trouble with the thing is, too often, our people sit away from the world scene, and they're, this and that, and they retire, and they get the watch, or whatever it is.

I've got nobody's attention to it, and it's just wrong.

You let them down, so you tell them,

I mean, you talk about a mutual friend of ours, Mr. John Colley.

You have a lot of... Mr. President, I've known this boy for 40 years.

Have you?

Yes, for 40 years.

I've known him since the day he got out of the University of Texas, Boston.

And I think that is one of the aimless men that's ever been available for public service in the United States.

I'd be very happy for you to know that.

Not any ticket.

And I accept her.

I accept her.

John, I think you, I honestly think President Nixon is succeeding in what he's talking about.

There is a new political alignment happening in this country.

And although my friend Jim Rowe says your logic is always...

You heard my admission.

It's coming fast.

There is a rate of acceleration running in the universe.

And I said, John, I'll do something that maybe you don't like.

When John was talking to me about it, he said, you know, I was helping him.

Sure.

I went up to see Jim, Bobby.

Oh, yeah.

And I went up to see him.

And by the way, I met your wife, you know.

We put on a party for the Irish stuff.

Yeah, I know about that.

And I went down and I said, John,

These fellows who have been in public office not thinking of the local mayors and the local district attorney in Atlanta will have a hard time coming out for a Republican campaign.

But, John, they're all willing to come out.

I guess it's a democratic campaign, but he said that can't be done.

But, I mean, this fellow, Mr. President, I talked to him only the other night.

I said, John, you know, I came down here to the administration.

with Jesse Jones.

It was the O'Kale.

It was loyal.

O'Kale.

It was the Cotton Francis.

Cotton Francis.

O'Kale Gordon and Freddie English.

He was my father-in-law.

And I said, and I became a Democrat for one reason, and curiously, it's the reason that I admire Nixon for the same reason I came to admire him.

My God, he's bold.

He does things, and he doesn't deal.

Old Peter Smith, for whom I was a private agent for many years of his life, used to say to me, even a third-class decision, boldly acting on this better than a first-class decision, difficult.

Beedle was a very dynamical and indispensable guy.

Beedle was involved in a dispensable life.

Jerry Person was once a wonderful cracker.

He said that Beedle, I didn't want to describe Beedle, but Beedle once said to him, he said, every, every leader,

Every leader needs a prat boy.

He said, I was a prat boy.

I thought about the, you know, the time I worked in the White House as a prat boy.

I remember when I was in the White House, I was on the payroll of Jesse Jones, which kept me on a great deal of trouble.

I was a corporate lawyer like you.

I did three or four documents for Jesse during the year, and then he led me to the prat boy.

Why is that that everybody knew you were the secretary to the president?

I was the, right at that desk he called me in and he said, you are my unofficial, you are my unofficial secretary.

But you will talk about us and stay on the other payroll.

And then he said, I'll keep you on the problems and the others.

And I was very clever.

I always regretted it.

In my poor curse, if I should have regretted it.

I, of course, never knew President Roosevelt, never saw him.

I saw her, well, I heard her several times, but I saw her for the first time when I was a lieutenant, maybe, me and a Caledonian.

I was driving a Jeep down the road toward me, and I'd been out in the mountains for some time.

Gosh, I headed off to the side, and I said, this is Roosevelt.

But it's quite obvious that he had an obvious sophistication.

We all work a little bit.

But we all know.

I think I understand you, Mr. President.

I'm very sure you're acquainted here.

That's right.

But we have both had to learn.

Our mothers and our fathers might not completely admit it, but they were praying for me.

I said, you know, you have to get it done.

You have to get it done.

And he said one thing to me once that I wanted to say to you.

We were thinking about something that was going to arrive.

He said, Tommy, do you remember Ty Cobb?

He batted 400.

If you batted 400 in this league, you're a champion, too.

It's hard to see.

But I mean, I think this is a unique aspect.

The only thing I've had a very good moment in front of this world is my judgment of men.

This time is absolutely unique.

You're going through now a very difficult period when

And here we are now.

We keep thinking, our people keep thinking, you know, that foreign affairs don't matter because we still have the abundance of our raw materials coming from abroad.

We've had to give up technology when the Korean War to the Japanese.

I remember I found a dashboard at one point.

And when the Marshall Plan was done, I said, let's give them our second-class machinery, not the first-class machinery.

And the exporters said, no.

So we've really created a competitive market.

It's a good thing, as you said, to have them.

But God damn it, this country has got to welcome down.

And it's pretty good.

That was free land, free everything.

They just don't have it.

It's going to be moving.

They don't have it.

They've got to come up with it.

But John McDonnelly,

I said, John, until you know what the President wants you to do, or you want Weldon, and I don't have to know, John, what you want to do is to take on some crisis, just as Jesse took on the crisis of the opening of the bank, something that would become

Why don't you, Justice Rosen, help me in touching the town, opening the banks?

Why don't you ask?

It's a pleasure to be in the town, offering the energy prices from God to God Almighty.

Now remember, I work for JECO.

I'm in the oil and gas business myself, and we're doing nuclear power around 12 miles past the west of town.

overseas relationships it comes right out of the kitchen it comes right out of the wall John could be could emerge not in the State Department but in the White House not necessarily in a strong government but the way Jesse as a Democrat came in to help Mr. Hoover who was a much maligned man I always loved him he was given the big deal I mean that kind of thing John would just give you

I said, John, when I left the White House, I was broke and I had a wife and lots of children.

I had to make money.

The president had to make money.

We've all had to make money.

Let me say that the only problem I see in his case, or if he can do anything, I've often said that, as much as I've described to others who might have ideas.

Second, as you look at the political mix in this country, I think the possibility of

If I look at the Democratic Party today, the Democratic Party never nominated Tom Connery.

How should I know?

Because the left, even though they took a hell of a beating in this last election, they got the Democratic Party right here.

Well, maybe they have Mr. Hedges.

But they have, for example, in the House at this time, I don't know if you know it, but in the House in this study that was made, I don't know if you'd be interested, there have been some very, very disturbing rules changed.

They told us in that Democratic study, Mr. Trump is destroying, Mr. Bolling doesn't control Mr. Alton Cole, and he's got control of that college room.

You even think about your friend, Mr. Bills, when he asked you to go up against him.

I know we both approved it.

Yeah.

And most people didn't know what it was.

You understand what was going on.

Now, the point is that John would have to do these things.

And it's terribly difficult.

But looking at this as a decision to make, looking at the political landscape of the United States,

Curiously enough, John Connolly, in my view, can get the Republican nomination in a walk.

And, as a Republican, can be elected.

Because he can take all the South just like that.

Not because he's a Texan, but because he appeals to it.

I mean, some of it is crap.

Now, the second thing is that John Connolly would then only have to get

In addition to that, he'd get all the mountain states.

He's their kind of man.

He'd get the farm states in the Midwest.

He's their kind of man.

He only needs one big state after that.

I bet on his California, let alone Ohio and what happened in New York.

Whenever I put it, it's the lowest country out there.

That's what a Republican can do.

Now, looking at his opposition on the Republican side, without getting into the

The Connolly person, let's face it, in the Republican side, you've got persons that are going to get it and shouldn't.

The second part is that he shouldn't because he doesn't have the, let's face it, the basic character that you need.

I'm not attacking his character, I'm just saying I know character.

foreign policy areas, he would never have made the tough decisions that I had.

He's another husband.

Yeah, he's another husband.

Except without Humphrey's warmth.

His warmth is more air-sense.

Humphrey's is real.

Humphrey's is good.

That's the problem.

The fire's too big.

So it squeezes out the brain sometimes.

Anyway, then, you have A. Connolly would appeal to everybody that does.

Plus,

I just don't understand.

They've got Rockefeller.

Rockefeller, he's going to go again without question.

But he's 67, 66 years of age.

Reagan, he's going to go again.

66, 67.

I do not see either party in this century nominating a man for president when he's over 65 years of age.

I think he too.

When I was looking at the records, I hadn't realized that FDR died in 1962.

T. Augur died.

He was only 60 years of age.

Hoover lived a long time.

But Johnson dies at 63.

My point is, I don't mean to say that past 60, that nobody has a chance to survive.

I should.

I hoped that the burdens of this office are so great, it isn't the hours and all that.

He lived pretty well.

But the burdens are so great that you can't impose those on a man.

So they say, well, what about DeGaulle?

What about Adenauer?

Well, DeGaulle and Adenauer were unusual men, and God knows what would have happened under every certain circumstances.

I don't know how to take the stroke.

Churchill had a stroke later years.

Of course, Churchill came on when he was 66, but he also was one that he just, let me put it this way,

Nine times out of ten, the guy over 65 is too old.

You think so?

For two terms, Mr. President, don't you know that his heart has severed before the one that killed him?

Mr. President?

Yeah.

Well, I have to talk to you about your question.

But nobody knew it.

But what you're saying is that the sheer energy is required to take the bumps, the bumps, the bumps, and make a decision to make a decision.

You can't tell me that.

The thing about John Connolly,

which he has over the years.

He has the experience and the rest.

But he also has the right age.

He's full of age and energy and so forth.

As a matter of fact, there's one thing he does.

He over-exercises at times.

He goes a mile and a minute and so forth and so on, and he's terribly tired.

And he's got to be patient a little more, but he'll do that.

But if you can teach him to do that, I've taught that to him.

But on the other hand, John Conway,

a salesman, a super salesman.

He's got balls to make the great leadership thing.

And what he would have over all of the others, the only one that would approach him on it would be Robert Conley.

But John Conley, by what we call the thoughtful leaders of the country, and there are a group there, we won't use the term leaders, but the business professionals,

political so forth, he is considered to be a guy that has his stuff.

That's right.

Like you.

I bet you go across the street and find the head of the biggest Republican law firm, whoever it is, in New York or Washington, he'd say, huh, great.

That's right.

Whether he might not want him for a part of the establishment, but he'd be forward about it.

He'd say, of course he's got the stuff.

That's what, you know, that's the thing about it.

I'll be frank.

I'll be worried about it.

I'll be complacent.

He's got the all of the groups.

I have the group, we had all the Jewish, many Jewish leaders down there, you know, Taz Schreiber from California.

It was a group of people.

These were people that were basically democratic, most of the time.

They were people that supported Humphrey by their attacks on the floor.

And we had a lot of their support at this time.

But that group had

They don't, they don't bat on losers.

That's why they do so well.

They are, they are, they are the nicest people in the world.

That's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I'm, that's what I

And I had a lot one night at everybody's party that I had there about how I was for John Carney on the Democratic team.

It was way back about two years ago.

I remember the first thing Jim called me.

He said, God damn, it's true.

It can be.

And at that length, it was the second panel of the Sheriff's Bureau, you know about that, where everybody fixed up this unsaid power.

God damn it, the path was passing around a bit today.

And I laughed, and I said, well, that can't be.

And you are absolutely right.

He cannot be nominated for the Democratic ticket.

But Mr. Cresci, I think that after the election of 74, you are going to have created a situation where if he doesn't jump, maybe I'm wrong.

I'm 72 years old, Mr. Cresci.

could do it very well.

But I mean, I said to John, and Mel Laird talked to me about this the other day, and Mel Laird said, you know, he said, John, it doesn't jump too soon.

So I talked about this Jesse Jones concept of a Democrat working for a Republican president for the good of the country.

And he's

and he doesn't say yet what he's going to be.

He said, he said, then the Democratic votes will come to him for the job he's done in addition to having to leave the Democratic Party.

And he said to the Democratic Party, the decent ones like you have to leave the Senate too.

I don't know.

I don't, I don't, I don't trust my judgment right now.

But I know, I know,

I don't even know the problem with that guy.

He's waiting.

The problem that you have, and I don't know any way to restate this, the problem is you have him waiting.

Now, I'm not, I'm going to try to influence John, because I think it's not fair to him.

I love you, and how it feels.

I'm going to do something.

Here's the problem.

And I said, that's the problem.

I understand.

I'm not sure that these days it's terrible that people start running for president if they have the election.

And they really do.

And Mr. Trump, Rockefeller, Reagan are all turning no question about it.

And John said they're going to.

And John said exactly what you said.

He said they suddenly may lock it up.

They lock it.

You see, people get committed.

They get committed.

And the point is that John can just

tell people, look, wait, it's hard.

It's very difficult.

Well, if you keep your mind open, you may be greater.

Because the main thing is to be sure that this superbly qualified guy, if the nation needs him, I'll tell you, he's ready.

And a lot of times, I'm within body and soul, no matter where he's from.

But now, I keep my relationship

relationship in order to talk to him.

Would you bring a cup?

I've got to give the president a cup.

Thank you.

do to help you without being brought down.

Remember, I was a Republican District Attorney in New York.

I was a Republican Secretary of Justice.

I was a Republican with Putin.

And I'm a Democrat because I told you, until you came along, your people weren't bold enough.

and John Glover, and I am keeping my own talking position.

But I know the Democratic Party is in the depths of doubt.

I'm even thinking something new may arise, like the phoenix from these ashes of a combination of things.

And then the fight is who's going to be called a Republican, who's going to be called conservative.

If we could only find a good name for a third party.

That's right.

But I say, John, we can't.

We can't.

Yeah.

But we could be used to it.

That's another good point.

Oh, I must admit, Mr. President, I've been thinking for a long while.

I told John, I know your image is Disraeli.

But you know, Bonnie Baruch gave me a quote once that makes me think it fits you even more than Disraeli.

That's horrible.

You remember the famous quote?

If I may stop you, I'll send it to you.

It's the endless adventure of governing men by a bum named Taylor Winkler.

And it has a long first hundred pages on the value

He manages to find the balance as well.

But he talks about what took over England after the Stuart Center came down, after all that Puritan cattle had been in, and strangled it so that when the DeForeani Challenge came, it was a united country.

Now that's what you're doing.

And I want to tell you, that's what I'm trying to do.

I'm trying through John to help people like you and me who think of life like children.

already one of those facts would be now i'm eternally grateful to you that your district attorney put my boy like after he finished how it was and after you've done practice one of the services that your district attorney put him in and he's down here district attorney's office now good uh but i'll help you any way i can on john and bob hill will tell you that in the old days of the eisenhower administration i was the link to linda johnson when you didn't want to go around

But I'm going to stay there for the sake of what you're trying to do, for the sake of what Conley's trying to do.

And may I speak to you about one more thing?

You're a literary man.

You read.

You're an educated man.

Do you remember both Plutarch and George Berkshire told you how Leopold got in to see Caesar roll in the comet?

Well, I have comets.

You know, I approach her, her name's Archie North.

She is one of the best employers, friends you've ever had.

Mr. President, I have never written a book.

I don't kiss and tell.

I am amazed at some of the people in your administration that break under pressure and talk too much.

But I happen to know what was going on in 68 when Anna kept her mouth shut but her client asked her to.

And to vote upon me, you remember?

Oh, yeah, because of that.

Yeah, well, because I happened by accident to be in it, and she came to be crying.

Now, how did I get to know Adam, the old member?

I wish you all the same.

I know.

Then I wish you all.

I owned the Air America, the predecessor, which was Caddy Ryan.

And she all read it for me.

And there I met her.

And when he died, he left her with three men.

He left her with Governor Louisiana, two old Major General Cooper, whom you in California know.

He always takes those guys.

Sure.

And to me.

Now, they're 80 years old.

I'm only 70.

The job has fallen to me, and she's my protege.

But she wrote you a letter not so long ago.

She wrote me a letter about it.

And she asked me if I would ask you, if I would ask you, she's on that last, and she's asking you if she may have an interview with you alone about herself.

Mr. President, I'm sure she is worth so much.

She is worth so much.

That's her own writing.

She is worth her weight in gold.

Thank you very much, sir.

Now, I want to say anything I can do to help, to help my country, which, as the President of the United States, is the head of my country.

I am wisely, I think, from everybody's point of view, trying to help the Democratic Party.

I even made a tremendous suggestion the other night, Mr. President.

I said, if you believe in the two-part system, you ought to apply your service to making the Democratic Party.

That Congress is my idea to succeed you, and I think you are preparing the way for him to be as great as you are, too.

Ah, well, what is greatness?

No one knows until years later.

Who knows?

Most department is stupid.

Mr. President, you didn't love that.

What's that?

You didn't love that.

Well, I just saw today, for example, the first, I had not, I did not see any, but they were all back, but a couple of the people that were just, were taking one of those to a tire tee, that tee actually, I can't remember why.

And we talked to them, you know, it was quite worthwhile, each of these crowd, each was 33.

Each had been away for seven years.

Each in that seven year period,

They have no shoes, two meals a day.

One was solitary for 30 days.

And here they come back thin, standing tall, straight, proud, deep belief in their country, in their God, and so forth.

But the main thing is, they said, we're just thankful that we came back with our heads high, knowing that our country had

not done it just for us, that we hadn't just, you know, the prisoners who were drawn.

And also, they were extremely disappointed.

You know the terrific heat we took because of that December bombing.

You should hear these guys talk about that.

They said if you hadn't done that, we'd still be in the headland.

They said, make it your key here.

We heard the B-52 bombs fall on December 18th.

We all cheered, cheered, and our cheerleaders ran to the shelf.

You did, and you had to.

Can I talk to you about one thing?

Sure.

I heard you today about the cartoon incident.

If you don't mind, I'd like to make a suggestion to you, and please, I'm not being impertinent.

Mr. President, there's a guy I've known from the days when we were in China together.

was a brigadier general, an army engineer named Byrote, who was the ambassador to the Philippines.

Oh, I see.

I thought today that the guy who sent him to Sudan, that fellow was the head of the Near Eastern Division.

He was in Egypt.

He was in Afghanistan.

Well, we have our ideas for him.

And I know, I happen to know the accident by which he was pushed out of the Netherlands.

And it was an accident, but it was understandable.

He lived in my house during that period.

Because when he and I were in China together, I knew it.

But I thought there was an army man who went over to the residence.

You don't know, but I was sent out by your Navy in New York, when you mentioned New Caledonia.

I was sent out by your Navy about a month ago.

Take a look at my media.

Before, that U.S. mission got in, which did raise hell.

I went out there, and we flew over all that country, and not being everything, but being in those places.

And I have, you know, there's a fellow named Greenberg, who's a Polish native from Stone, who's a smart little guy, who I worked up in New York, that star, CB star, who insured him.

Oh, I know the star.

I've seen the star house.

Oh, yeah, and you know the film that, like, insured him.

Because of that, I watched this film and thing, and I said to myself, as I went through my condition, Jesus Christ, if anything happens, if Marcus should be assassinated, for instance,

Or if there should be a civil law, surely they would have a struggle.

My God.

We need my permission.

And I had a thought when I heard about my rebellion.

Johnson out there is a good guy.

And you know Johnson.

Why not?

He doesn't have a wife.

But Johnson has something else.

He doesn't have a wife.

But he has a wife.

Johnson had a nice wife who was a social girl in Honolulu.

She got up and she handed over some of these goddamn motels to the Philippine Japanese and some rats ran across the floor.

And she blew the way Blair's wife blew the Philippine, and she blew it.

Now, I'm not going to talk to you about my condition, but I... Blair's wife blew the book she blew.

Why?

Because I couldn't stand it.

Mr. President, it's my right.

I have sat in that miserable bunch of houses like the Legion of Congress.

And I heard O.E.O.

Reuters turn up at the legislative advisors and tell me what the hell was I out here to protect the American Navy in so many words.

Now, I thought of Byron for that.

And Mr. Trent and I must say, when I saw that place, Jesus Christ, God, take me with rinse all together.

I knew for a minute, God, I hope that that carrier I worked so hard for last time, whether we have to have, we may actually be driven back to something like those lagoons.

I mean, I'm afraid of that sort of situation.

But I also thought of Byron in Johnson's place.

Because what the government's done in that place, you can't put Americans in there.

Why, Mr. President, Continental has a new airline out there.

It has hotels.

They're the only hotels that could possibly attract an American tourist.

And there was no water in the one on Palau.

You had to be the very first to turn it once a day.

There was no water in Troop.

They had to bring it in by tanker.

There were no sewage facilities.

There were no roads.

There really has to be a country.

Thank you.

What time did that guy get a picture?

Oh, by the way, I suppose it's supposed to be 10 by the way.

Hey, that guy should be used.

I know Byron very well.

I've known him.

And I've even had a specific new fighter.

We did, as a matter of fact, we did a, we did a, we did a, we did a, we did a, we did a, we did a,

Do you know another Bible man?

Do you have a friend, Kendall?

Who?

Kendall came to me about that.

Yeah.

Oh, now I have him.

Well, he's there.

Come on.

See, he's the best.

I didn't know that... Let me just see what I...

I'll be sure to put it right there.

Did you get a picture of this?

Yes, we did.

You got a picture?

Yes, I got a picture.

I'm sure you were here.

Thank you very much.

Well, you know, you're in great shape.

Thank you.

It's marvelous.

Right here.

You see, that always confuses people, but that's the way it does.

That's right.

I know those seven keys.

It goes.

Thank you, sir.

Thanks for coming.

Great.