Conversation 871-004

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I was going to ask you about that train.

I asked you, uh,

He's on the confirmation committee.

Now, on the urban cycle committee, the man who I think is going to emerge, the man we're going to talk to is Kearney.

Kearney stepped out yesterday and just said these confirmation hearings are politics, and let's not compensate him for it.

I would say those are our two closest partners.

What you need to do here now, I think, is to negotiate our strategy.

The law is in place now.

Greg is still the editor-in-chief.

He's up there today.

Correct.

Why haven't we thought, and why haven't we thought, and everybody else, of not putting up this crap on the FBI and Greg?

I don't know if we're supposed to put him on the grid a little bit as to whether he approves or disapproves of certain things.

Let me tell you how this is done.

The way I would put it is, the chairman, I mean, our director,

I have it is to ensure that that the electronic device for use will do for the purpose of of bugging the person that is playing and also I want to ask you I heard these charges come to my attention I want to ask you whether it's true or false and say no Mr. Gregg I do the best I can to these charges

Do you approve of such things?

You get my point?

They're not out there.

You can conduct an investigation very unwarranted.

They're out there.

The question is confidence.

If he headed the FBI and whether he approved certain things the FBI has been charged with over the years.

And then go back and pick up what he said.

It can't be what the FBI did.

Do you approve of the use of the FBI for this purpose?

Well, you have to write the question down.

I'll write them out if you want me to.

I'm sorry.

It's very simple.

I'm sorry.

Leave me alone.

Now, in that case, all your assault is material.

All your assault is material.

That is, it doesn't make any difference whether it's hearsay or not.

That's right.

The game, this game is not played according to the rules.

It's played according to, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

And the main thing is, we've got to find a way to get it to whomever we have down there.

And the way that he's got to say it, you send it to him.

A Ruska?

Uh, would no more blow us out of the water.

For me personally, then, uh...

But is a Ruska smart enough?

That's the problem.

Love him, man.

That's the problem.

Uh, yeah, what about, uh...

Cook is, well, Gurney is the man.

That's the funny thing.

You know, when we had him down on the IPT thing, suddenly he said, well, I'm going to go to this material from the White House.

But Gurney, I think, could be the man.

Gurney, I can only say, Gurney went on this select committee for one reason.

He would like to have your nod next time around, rather than Kramer and the like.

So there's a real carrot there.

But you see what I mean?

He's got to be put right to it.

He knows.

In other words, did you conduct... Have you ever had any information put in the question in such a way that he knows he's going to be lying?

Does he not lie to help us?

He says, have you investigated it?

Do you approve of it?

I first started this.

The charge has been made.

Do you approve of that kind of activity?

No.

Have you ever had any information come to your attention?

Quite anything.

I'm sorry about that.

He said no.

He probably said no.

Did it happen?

No.

If you did get information, did you conduct an investigation?

No.

Why not?

Well, now you see he has done administrative inquiry and the likes of it.

This will be tested.

I think this is good for this reason.

Now, we're not going to screw around with a thing like this.

Hoover wouldn't lie, he detected him in one second.

You know, he was even ordered.

What I think is happening here, John, is that Dray, I got to know the guy, he's a nice guy, he's loyal in his own way, but he's panning after the goddamn job.

And his son-in-law...

Yes, as Carl August says, some of these fellas go up and they get confirmation-itis.

They change.

They're different individuals once they get up there.

All right.

All right, it's going to happen now.

It's got to happen.

Do you question these things?

No, I don't.

Don't raise questions.

I'm sorry, I don't.

Why not get something in on the other side?

That's exactly the point.

And here's a very good one.

You see, in the other very urban, you rule it out as your own.

For the reason that it is limited to the selection.

But this involves the equity, my dearie.

So you're going to say, I want to see what you think.

You laid the foundation very much.

We've got tremendous questions about did he investigate, did the FBI investigate some of the occurrences that you were confronted with during your campaign?

Yeah.

The firebombings and some of these things where they did just, they did virtually nothing for us.

Yes.

There's some of that.

Just, you know, show the other side.

I've got a little bit of that with me.

I would rather get it out of the can.

I'd rather pull it back into the old history.

Not what he did, just to say.

But you see, whether or not he approves of the use of the FBI by the White House.

Now, then go back into what the other White House did.

Do you know what he did?

He's pissed on the White House now, frankly.

All right, he's thought the White House is an entity that goes through all presidents.

Now, what's he then?

Maybe you don't want to pull the clock again, but God damn it, he's dead.

But certainly you could pull in all the Johnson crap, and I'd pull it in the other hand.

I'd do a very great adaption.

And if he does lie, he should be called a citizen.

All right.

I mean, that was a lie under certain circumstances.

I think the man to do this is probably Gurney rather than Hruska for this reason.

But he's so much smarter.

He's smarter and Hruska is extremely close to Klein.

We can get in a way that just between Gurney and

Does Gurney know you well enough that he won't get up and say it's in the White House?

That's what I'm concerned about.

I can't... Well, I can have somebody who does know Gurney well enough do it.

Well, that's my problem.

I'll do it outside.

You can say to somebody outside, go ahead and say, look, we've got some hot stuff here.

It'll help you in your campaign.

Use it.

I like to believe I've operated around here for about two and a half years now, and no one has ever, I've never serviced until you decided to service me.

See what I mean?

The trouble is sometimes with the Colson or...

But now I'm afraid, how about we must, I mean, my view is that we should, and what the hell, where's Clint East on this?

What in the name of God is he doing?

Clint East has been totally unable to program what he calls a bullheaded Irishman in this whole thing.

We have tried.

They had, before the hearing started, they had sit-down sessions to plan his whole strategy.

It's beyond their control.

Now listen, if I want to communicate with Greg, I don't understand.

Give me the code, we've done it for a while.

He called here last night, talked to Erlichman rather than me last night, because I have just been pulling him up short every time he talks to me.

I've known Pat for a long time.

He knows that I'm doing it because there's just generalism.

I haven't said anything about our conversations, of course.

Oh, you shouldn't.

Of course not, I wouldn't.

So I think this is good, and I think the way to do it is just quietly move it in and move it into the forum.

That's right.

But let's get that question out about the fact about the 60-day firing.

Why not?

Now, what's the danger, Jennifer?

Some of the dangers.

The dangers are they'll say, oh, this is a red herring.

This isn't true.

This is a lie.

This is a smear, right?

A couple dangers.

One, he has made an administrative inquiry.

And he'll say no.

He'll say he has inquired and he found this not true.

That's right.

And he'll say he found nothing in the records to support some of these.

That's where I fall on that.

The other danger is he will blow Deke Deloach and possibly Bill Sullivan out of the water.

Deke Deloach and Bill Sullivan being blown out of the water could be dangerous individuals.

But I think what we're talking about here is raising, not starting an investigation, but raising the efforts of it all without punching any of the people.

And the point is to understand, well, how does he conduct an investigation?

Just like the point that the Senate is trying to drive between Gray and me on one, did Gray get to see the FBI reports?

Absolutely never did I show him those.

That's a phony story.

And the second thing is, did I turn everything over to the FBI?

I wonder if I would have done both of those things or if I came to that.

Not that I should.

Because we are clean.

And Gray knows it.

But when Gray says that you should not have said anything, what the hell is he saying?

Why shouldn't you have said anything?

The FBI always allows people to sit in, counsel to sit in.

The FBI does not say an individual has to be convicted.

As a matter of fact, the law provides otherwise.

If an individual wants counsel, isn't that correct?

That's correct.

No individual could have gotten a civil libertarian to be on the wall if they had a black up there, you know.

That's correct.

Their policy is if they can get an interview without counsel, they will do it.

We were...

The other thing is, and Pat understands this, is that any inquiry into the White House is a different type of inquiry.

It's not your run-of-the-mill type drug case or something like that that they're talking about.

It's sensitive.

In fact, the only time I ever came down hard on the FBI...

It was after the leak started.

And then I insisted before they came over here that they tell me what they wanted, who they wanted it from, why they wanted it, and what protections they would take on the information they were given.

But we never...

I don't see Gray after this, John.

I don't see him taking over this thing.

And the FBI cleaning it up.

I don't see him thinking he's going to be Mr. Nice Guy and all that sort of thing.

I think he's got this on his own company.

I think we can sink him now.

We ought to do it.

That's what I think.

I sense a character flaw here.

Well, the raw stuff in here.

I know the papers don't carry everything, but there's a character flaw there.

That's correct.

I would jolly well, in that good crime sense, that FBI grade, use that kind of language.

I think the point that you made yesterday is, between us, the very good point is, Kelly could have appointed anybody to be a non-political head of the FBI.

He could have found some federal judge who's untouched and the like, and

a good administrator and the like, that isn't what you need.

Try.

Be responsive.

Don't give a star away.

Well, I think this is good.

You've got to think it over.

It's an idea.

get me some questions but let me tell you together I know these guys and not on the word of God they're still it's only a thing but you make the questions up under the cross and now you know Bill is a little great but what the Christ said what?

well it does this even if he ultimately gets back on track the reason I like it is it's that and it's giving you the later options

If he does step across the boundary from your knowledge, for the way he answers the question, you don't have to even say that publicly.

You can pull him in and he can say, I'm withdrawing.

Because if you confront him, you know, slightly, and say, here's the reason you didn't tell the truth there, then he can say, well, I agree.

That's the option we need to provide for you.

So there's a big political barrier here.

So we'll throw him out, and it'll be a three, four, five day story.

When he gets out, that's all.

We'll have to find some non-energy to put in the content, John.

I think I would have been better off to put Jerry Wilson in anyway.

College degree, no college degree.

Well, Jerry would do anything that you said.

First of all, he would have gone through the hearings.

It's a little bit of putting a puppy dog in, but he can run the shop.

I know that the arguments were for and against Jerry, and they were all valid at the time, but when you look at what we're in for, maybe the FBI just needs a straight compliment for a change.

I was going to say that at all times.

But here's the thing also, Mr. President.

This is the time to test him.

This is the time to say, are you on the reservation or not?

Because if he isn't now, in the next few days, he has turned around from where he was before.

There's no doubt about it.

He's come down on the hard line.

I'm not turning over any more material, so on and so forth.

But what we've got to stop him now is, and I told him, I said, if you try to create more of a dichotomy between you and the White House, Pat, you're just egging for them to call and insist upon my appearance.

And that's to your disadvantage.

Well, that's a good feature of yours.

We interrupt total new league if you start breaching the attorney-client privilege.

Attorney-client privilege.

You got that?

Then also, you have a pretty good time.

Now, we're on strong territory.

The only part of it is the district privilege.

We want to make it real.

We don't care no more about any of it.

Well, I think this is a good idea, but I haven't thought through that quite carefully.

Well, as I go through the questions, the main material of the questions are, what do they stand up for?

Let me take a hard look, and I'll, you know, I'll give you what my honest impression is at this point in time.

Your advice is very important.

One of the developments that may be of part three, I think, is to the good.

Williams and Califano, the law firm representing all the active civil cases, are withdrawing from the cases themselves.

They say they have a conflict in relationship to their representation in the Washington Post.

Because we have had quiet negotiations going on in the background with Strauss and O'Brien to settle those cases.

And those cases are just one great pain for all of us.

And they're potentially the same thing as a hearing.

With civil depositions, they get about as far as the Senate can get.

So we may have a breakaway on that kind of argument.

I don't know.

Maybe we'll get a referral here.

Well, not if we move right now.

That's the hopeful thing.

All right, sir.

I'll keep you posted.

Okay.

That's the problem.

I don't understand.

The way to look at all this is a battle.

Oh, and they do some beating.

But I don't want our people to be around here through a goddamn accident and not getting things, you know what I mean?

You got it?

Got it.

Okay, bye.

We'll be right back.

And Maury did an absolutely superb job.

I finally decided that now the problem is you've got to get somebody to introduce at the dinners or after dinner or even an after dinner thing.

Maury liked everyone.

He had studied them.

Obviously, he knew all of them, but most of them.

But he studied the list.

But even if you know you have a guy introducing afterwards, you could say Mr. Jones from Senator Smith's office or Mr. So-and-so from that office or so-and-so from ACA or so-and-so.

But you have, like you have a CODIS or you have a military, you can't expect them to do that because they aren't really that sophisticated, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

I'm going to get somebody to do that.

Steve, do you?

But anyway...

What am I going to say?

You can't do that.

Huh?

I don't know why that can't work it out.

Just work it out.

And the future is the next generation and so forth.

I want them to tell me as they come through.

Hello?

Let me find out.

I have to spend usually a half hour before each dinner.

At least reading those goddamn lips, marking things, and then memorizing who the Christly are.

Because these bastards expect you to know.

They don't expect it, but it helps a lot to know.

Now, the military, let me tell you, it doesn't do me one bit of good, believe me, one bit of good to have a stiff military in your coaters up there putting Mr. Jones and Mr. Bennett.

What the hell does that tell me?

What in the name of Christ does that tell me?

You know, one way you can do it is to make up cards for each individual ahead of time.

And then you reach out, and they can be honest.

and then give the card to the individual so he gives it to the introducer.

They do that at receptions.

They did it at some of the more high receptions.

I was overseas, actually went through it.

They give me, when I walk in, a card saying, Mr. Holloman, assistant to the president.

Yeah, and then as I get that one, I hand that to the driver.

Now you take the straw, but you can even do that in a positive way, that mistake there.

Oh, yes, you can do that again.

We make a mistake in our area tonight.

Oh, great, Robert, oh, great, Robert.

Say, will you please hand this to the agent?

Oh, that's right.

You can see you have that.

You have to start that car again.

That's right.

This is one of the greatest guys you've ever met.

This is just like comedy.

He went comedy at his party in Texas, that receiving line that's back in Texas, because he knew everybody, and he filled everybody up, and they went through there just like fucked up.

They come to receiving lines from my house, and unless it's somebody that I carry around, I don't know who they are.

You know, I know pretty well, I know three-fourths of them.

The president knows that you don't know, and the people want to be told.

But the guy is the head of the company, such and such a steel company, and he wants the president to do that because he thinks he's going to do it.

Well, I don't know too much about the president.

I would say if you saw one man on each, on Iowa or U.S. president, U.S. president, or whatever, you could say that.

Maybe they even give you the name of the state of the government.

I'm thinking of the state of the government.

They can say, Mr. John Armstrong of United States Steel in Des Moines.

Don't use this title.

Don't say president.

Don't use this title.

That's right.

Just use the place with.

From the University of Southern California.

From the University of California.

That's right.

In other words, name occupation.

And normally they can say city rather than state.

Because if they say Des Moines, they're going to say the city, not the city.

Very good.

You work it up.

Chief, but I don't know where I have to send the security.

Unless it's a rinky-dink little city that you've never heard of.

Then they ought to give the state because states help you.

You know, I don't ever say that anybody's for believing.

I don't know that.

Thanks, you know.

It's a good idea.

That gives you a special one like this where you want to talk to them.

It gives you a basis for saying, oh, yes, I remember that.

They're kind of their football team.

I do an awful lot of that.

If you've been there, it's because you've got a fabulous memory.

It's not a good use of my time.

Did you see the story in the paper about that woman you remember?

Yeah.

That was not a case of just seeing her and saying, she told me when.

She had been out there with the captain.

I remember they were all along the bridge.

Yeah, that's the girl that she thought I remember.

She screamed.

That must have been Whitney.

I remember they went out there.

I'm afraid.

I can't imagine Eisenhower remembering her Johnson.

They don't think that's her Johnson.

No, I don't think so.

Johnson didn't deal with people.

He dealt with them in the mass, too.

See, you take each person one at a time.

I don't think it's working the other way around.

I can finally say that as far as these people are concerned, except for the white crowd, that this bag dinner is the best way to handle it.

Due to the fact that they come in, they get that bullshit in the afternoon, which they like to hear.

Yet they retire this bullshit at night and have a nice little dinner.

Back around, we have a 10 o'clock.

It's important to go back and tell the wives now, over the period of four years, their wives have come in.

That's the way I would do it.

I wouldn't break our ass to try to get them involved.

But the quarries had the static energy.

And the static energy is no great strength for me.

I don't mind having it.

I would not mind having it even more.

And I would argue that you would not.

It started at 7.30.

Inevitably, it could have been over 9.30.

Let's swear three courses.

What?

Were they slow?

No, they were 10 o'clock.

10 o'clock was the... You can't go back two and a half hours.

You're short of time.

My point is...

Yet every day they get extremely well.

And they have the music, and they have the music, and the music.

We've got those men of C-Champ tonight, a bunch of various guys.

We should have an army tonight.

I guess we just can't.

Look, if we have the Marines all the time, why can't we just have an army?

We can't.

We've got to change the time.

I'm sure we can.

Well, then we can't.

Let the C-Champers come, because they've got to be serious.

But always have an army for me, if you will.

I don't like the C-Champ.

That's the thing.

We're trading the services.

It's literally absurd because nobody knows who's there anyway.

Except the guests.

Now the guests only know who's there.

They don't know who's there last night or tomorrow.

I have an army.

One day I made a job offer.

No, I don't think so.

Johnson didn't deal with people.

He dealt with them in the mass, too.

See, you take each person one at a time.

I don't care.

It's hard to be the other person.

Well, I can finally say that as far as these people are concerned, except for the white crowd, that this bag dinner is the best way to handle it.

Due to the fact that they come in, they get that bullshit in the afternoon, which they like to hear.

I get this bullshit at night.

I have a nice little dinner.

I go out at about 10 o'clock.

It's important to go back to the other waters now.

Over the period of four years, their wives would come in.

That's the way I would do it.

I wouldn't break our ass to try to get them involved.

But the quarries had to stay in Anderson.

And to stay in Anderson was a great strength for me.

I don't mind having, I would not mind having even more.

In other words, he would not.

It started at 730.

Innocently, it could have been over 930.

We got to serve three courses.

What?

Were they slow in serving?

They didn't help us.

I don't know.

They were working a ton of time.

A ton of time.

You can't go back two and a half hours.

You have to make your short change.

I'm like, why this?

They never did it.

They did it extremely well.

And they had the music.

They had the music.

We got those NFC checks.

And I had a bunch of various.

I just wish we had the army.

I guess we just can't.

Look, if we have the Marines all the time, why can't we just have the army?

We can't.

We've got to change the mind.

I'm sure we can.

Well, then we can't help it.

Let the sea shakers come.

Let's make that more serious.

We've always had an army for me, if you will.

I don't like the sea shakers.

I don't like their beards and long hair.

You know, it's got that, that looks a little, I mean, it's just a thing.

I don't like this.

The army looks like the army.

That's the thing we're,

Hey, I heard this at our table.

I don't have much left to read.

I can't go to the press last night.

I was saying how proud I was.

And Buzz Wheeler came in and recommended that I go to the press.

I put it down.

Wheeler, Mr. Weatherhunt, you got one of my thank you letters from Vietnam.

Do you know what the letter is?

Yeah, I did.

Happy birthday to the guy.

or crisis, but I don't think we did, at least not in the West Coast.

But anyway, when Packard said he was being invited to a meeting in Southern California, he was meeting with half of us, and we were trying to talk, where the governor was going to be present about the California situation.

He said, if you've got any advice, if you'd like to pass on the job, I'd be glad to do it myself, and I can't wait.

Well, he says, he likes Bob Fanshawe.

He said he doesn't think that would be a buy-in.

Because he doesn't know where I am very well.

That's a great deal of information.

Bob, I want to run for the Senate.

I want to run for the governor.

Now, that's Packard.

He's there.

He should be the finished man.

That's the way he's talking.

And he says that's the way our homes feel.

I've got to pull him on to that, Bob.

We've got to get going on it.

I think we are.

I think we're going pretty well on it.

Why don't I talk to Bob?

Which way, Bob?

He's checking his mind about himself.

Oh, I couldn't believe how that died.

I don't know.

I think everybody's putting the pressure on them, just saying you can't go for governor, you've got to go for Senate.

And that's the direction it's tending.

I talked to him on Monday, Tuesday.

Listen, would you give him a call just to keep track and say, well, after Gray says, I've got to go to the very summit, what does he want?

It must have been Ethan Hacker before this meeting.

Another hacker raised, but I thought you should notice that he is apparently ruling out the gutter, holding him, trying to get him to work on this committee, which he's willing to do.

And he said the man that they all feel should be the best man to head it up is Conley, which is impossible to be Conley.

And I couldn't tell him that he wouldn't go.

Conley isn't about to do anything like that.

And he shouldn't.

I just wanted to be sure that you weren't putting that in there.

Well, that was worse.

Could you tell him I checked with Conway?

He just can't do it at this point.

Later, incidentally, I was at Conway.

He had nothing to do with it.

I wonder if we should make him a counselor and pray.

If he would.

Or he would say, no, this is a shocking idea.

There is such a desperate need, you know, for people that could work the hill, you know, to get out and do that sort of thing in the present time.

I think we're going to have to.

And frankly, the desperate need for advice on this sort of thing.

Thank you.

Yeah, he got a good... Did he?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, God.

He got a good...

He gave a very strong speech on advocacy.

And he got a good ride, and he made the points well.

Got the Lincoln point in well.

And it wasn't a front page story.

It was on page seven.

But question after question.

I want you to go forward and make up the list that I spoke about for mailing the letter.

But I...

If I can decide not to do it now, I'm going to throw it all out.

That's the first paragraph.

Yeah.

And I don't want to get... Well, and... And this is what I did.

They all say that.

But that's all I'm saying.

They're doing a great job of saying it.

We really don't need to push that point.

I don't know.

The drama of that is such that they have to play it.

And they're like, here you've got an old, old story, but it's a big thing now.

It's that guy cutting down the sign saying, you know, handle your release.

What's his name?

He was in the first batch, but he just cut down the sign yesterday, so that's a big thing.

What these guys are saying.

That's the thing that actually has been made, but it's made by the first guy on the second batch.

Yeah.

But they're all...

Well, they're all good.

They're all hitting the Patriotism fence so hard.

And they're all getting the homeless and the rest of our people.

And they're kicking them.

They're saying the peace groups delayed the war.

You see, the very right-wing economy is saying, they are saying, right?

They're putting in the peace groups to get their son and all their peace groups and whatever it is.

Now look at the Senate.

Now you can't find anybody that's for amnesty up there.

Make a note.

Have us at least do one thing up there.

They've gotten to get a vote on amnesty and that goddamn Senate's

They're trying.

They've got to stack the bills in.

They've stacked them all up.

They did, you know, they ran a poll on it.

The UPI didn't, so did AP.

What I was thinking, my new father says, have one of our guys put in a policy thing.

The way I understand it, you'll be great.

And I love the fact you're so good at what we're doing.

The lives have problems with that.

I just love those questions.

I just really love them.

Yeah.

Well, I keep trying.

But coming back to the field of this, the patriotism, the religious, the character, the science of the country, they're just waving.

You're alive.

I said, don't you believe?

I read a story this morning, and three-fourths of us on the domestic battle than the rest of us.

I believe, I don't think, that people do goddamn well when they're asking back their parents.

Sure, they've heard this or that or the other thing.

But as far as they're concerned, it's too, frankly, it's too, you know, it's too controversial.

It's too depressing.

They don't want to hear it.

Only when you get to a specific point, you know, if they're busting their kid and they care about busting.

If they're, if they, uh, probably want to mention something that I think they're about to get.

I'm really pushing for it.

It's that hard.

I mean,

Better law enforcement speaks to just that, control the path, and reduce crime.

Shocking whole group of people.

The other thing is, I think, the Soviet religion.

Better get our guys on that.

Forget that.

What's that information thing about CBS canceling that path?

I wish they had run us tonight or whenever it's supposed to go.

I guess it's tonight.

I wish it had gone on the air because it would have been kind of this heart-uprising.

Now they'll get some credit for canceling it, which is kind of too bad.

Well, that was not fully open for the press.

That's what I'm concerned about.

I think they're going to say a little name on the end of the press.

But the American people, she would have seen the astronauts.

So I run it.

The path was just made to hit it above the center.

What we had to do was place Peter in order to ship.

Remember, he was down here.

Glenn and I were the ones that agreed to this one.

I'm sure you, even with one, you can't trust a few of the two.

You can't do it.

Now, he was the two gentlemen who were on it.

He was all scattered.

Peter was right.

What you did was do both bad plays and get them out.

He was down here leading the charge in the war about that.

That's kind of a personal thing.

I'll tell you one thing.

We've been at the Kennedy Center.

But go to the government statements.

There was no friend of ours, but he's not an enemy, really.

He's just a little incompetent.

But he's taking a firm stand there.

On the basis, he says, I'll be goddamned if we're going to present.

I'm getting a lot of pressure now, he says, to put on American flags.

He says, but the problem is, there are no good playwrights.

Nobody's writing any good plays.

All they're doing is hanging their peckers out of their pants in order to get someone to come to the theater.

And he says, I'm not going to put that stuff on.

So what he's got over there now, he's got a Pirandello play, and a Rex Harrison, and for any of the stuff, or whatever it is, which is...

And then as you're a new play, I guess, at the other place, the last time I was with this girl, apparently they're both very good.

And he says, I'm going to go on to read this.

They're good plays that were written a long time ago, and we're going to go on presenting good plays that were written a long time ago.

He says, you've got all the Pirandello and Chirico people like that have never been presented in America.

And it's a better show than his first play.

So easy.

He's going with that and refusing to put on this other crap.

I know that he's running this story here, which is that I don't get anything about getting a call from one of you to talk to me.

I'm just telling you.

I'm just telling you what you've been doing.

I know you say it's a lot of pressure.

We've heard one whole corruption.

Not because I don't, I mean, I just think we ought to keep the theater relatively clean.

I'm afraid we've gotten that network.

That's why I wish they'd put it on 80, but 80 of their local stations refused to take it.

That is unprecedented.

Oh, yeah.

The WGOB proudly announced that they were perfectly willing to carry it and intended to.

This is the Washington Post station here.

I love you.

We, uh... We went to the State Department yesterday.

I was telling them, why isn't it used?

I don't think it would be used.

Thank you.

You're sobbing about the two guys that died.

Can we use Lassie more?

The thing is, he'll say anything.

So what I've been using, you know what I mean?

I take the efforts that we make sometimes to get it to drum, and they're coming to it, but now there's their own problem.

Lassie's a whore.

They don't know he's a whore.

We're trying to get other picked up.

Okay, better off.

What we do is you take the name.

Why are you crushing us?

We need to get it run our way.

By Kevin's at Novak, you're better off than anywhere else.

I know.

Secondly, by Joe Alston.

Thirdly, by Roscoe Drummond.

Thirdly, by Nick Timmish.

And fifth, by Nick Lasky.

For two reasons.

One, coverage.

That's the order of the ones that are in the covers.

And I know they're talking about the covers of people who read it.

None of these people have read it.

That doesn't make any difference.

It's a mail-out that we have.

We mail it out to these guys.

You see, it's an interesting thing that that Dallas paper, I know it's in the Kansas City paper, are just now picking up that editorial that Andrew was talking about.

Okay, that's my point.

But you know why we've got some money out of that?

The Congress is over.

Because we've got a flat line on whether he paid for the postage.

And that forces tension on them.

So then they go back to what you could have done better.

And that's something we ought to keep in mind.

Maybe we ought to do more of them.

Controversial people and stuff.

I don't know.

It's just whether they got their right to send it out.

That's good.

Well, anyway, I wanted to help you.

I think you're doing something that's going to do very well.

We're having a good discussion with you.

Tell her.

Of course.

About the time we're fighting this rear guard action on us.

He says he was in Argentina

Peru or someplace, he might have been his staff did it without his knowledge.

Well, that's a lot of volume.

If you said your staff did something without your knowledge, how far would you get away with it?

I don't know.

On the other hand, we've got our guy in there.

A senator, one of ours, must ask for a full field examination of all members of the House of Senators.

Have you had it?

Well, that would be the cap of the White House Senate, too.

That's right.

I want that done.

There's a reason that I want that done.

I'm going to do a full field examination for everybody in the House and Senate.

There's a White House staff.

I'm going to do a White House staff.

I'm going to press this cap.

Fair enough.

Every year.

It should be done.

We're going to take the shit out of everybody on the Senate, particularly our people on the Senate.

See, they don't report their own rights.

Why don't they operate?

Why don't you report my rights?

They're saying this and that, but I would like to have, could you get, I mean, get Jack in to do it first.

Yeah.

Get Jack in.

Don't take that name.

It's a better name.

Get Jack in to get up to the man.

Then I want to come to my attention, and I'll order.

See what I mean?

For the Secretary of Trade to be ordered.

See?

You should say so.

The congressman must get up.

He must write a letter to the secretary of the treasury.

Or could he write it to me?

No, I don't want to put the heat of an investigative attack in charge.

It's there for the secretary of the treasury.

The secretary of the treasury.

Your routine is such.

Yes, sir.

You're so ordered.

Okay.

Let's get out of that.

That is a must.

An absolute must.

I ought to report on what happens.

I don't know who that's supposed to be.

Great.

Well, yeah, I know some beats on top of it, but the son of a bitch said, you know, this is all mine.

We're going to close the curtain down on Tuesday.

We didn't close it down at all.

We lifted it up a little higher.

It was a pretty big game.

God damn, he knows the lawyer has a right to be in a clubhouse.

He has a right to have a lawyer there.

He knows that.

That's what was supposed to be a proper state.

You know, like, well, isn't that...

I'm not going to throw a cell for your intervention.

I'm not going to throw a thing.

But I'm going to send it out of the way.

We're going to track it.

Just forget what we're doing.

So I hope for that.

That really helped.

I think that was a mistake we did.

But, you know, I think that's where I relied too much on her.

Because I was for Wilson.

So was Herb.

Herb, he suggested Wilson to me anyway.

And who was it?

You came in early.

And then I said, you came in early.

And my name's Scrooge Blank.

And somebody else.

No, Herb, you're right.

No, John just had the original idea of Wilson to me.

Why not have a couple of them then?

So we're getting well-educated in what you're doing.

I still do.

You built it up yesterday.

You blew it right in there.

That's right.

You know, I don't want to be building on what I do.

No brand has proved itself.

The one person who's cut crime in the half of the year, come on, you know, that kind of man, the FBI.

I thought, yes.

I'll sign it.

And I think, great, as I do, he's pandering to these people.

He's pandering to the machine.

No question.

I'm not going to have that.

He's trying to sell himself at the expense of everybody else, which is exactly what Monty East did.

Why did he do it?

In his hearings.

And we're right on the same track with it.

Both of them relied on East.

Who is that?

Frank.

Smarter than both of them.

Oh, yeah, he was smarter.

He could take both of them and wrap them up and move forward.

Well, I think that's what he did.

I mean, I think he surely got it confirmed, but he did us a lot of harm in the process, and the client needs one.

The client needs to come in here all the way over.

Okay.

Well, I'm glad you heard.

I thought I did count an injustice on that.

I thought you had brought it up in his name.

And that John came in and said, well, I didn't bring up any intellectual qualifications.

That's not like you.

It was not like John.

It was not my view or John's.

I don't think I brought up any intellectual qualifications.

We're very concerned about this perspective of history and legal knowledge here.

Oh, yeah.

A philosophical basis.

I was trying to think, Bob, of the schedule yesterday.

Oh, yeah.

What do we want to do next, Bob?

It's about four.

We're going to have to see.

We're going to have to watch.

I don't think that was necessary.

I don't think I had to do the mayor's.

It was a greedy loser, frankly, going to have gas around those people.

Tell me the court, you sure didn't have to.

I didn't have to.

It was just something I had in mind.

I mean, unfortunately, anyone who turned out to be a head loser's birthday party came in and talked about the export of logs they should have.

And some of the MTC that I knew nothing at all about.

He was a nice fellow that I know.

I was asked the first place about it.

It was a total waste of time.

But what that is, it's a sale of already incurred $250,000 or something like that.

I can't do it anymore.

I think that's what they agreed before I did that.

How many more of those have you got left?

I've done two.

You've got three or four more.

All right.

What's my burger run?

I actually got some burgers.

Maybe.

Maybe there's probably a better switch.

Well, yeah, there is.

But one thing is you don't pile it up as much as you get.

Well, see, that's the thing.

You've got all that yesterday, and then you have one other thing.

I think if you don't change it, you're going to eat it.

One day.

You agree?

Absolutely.

One day.

Because I've got these people and children and so forth.

You don't know.

You've got to pick the one that's a variety.

You just want the range of pictures.

I mean, it's right in front of you.

Oh, okay.

I'd like to hang it right in that corner.

There you go.

That only, but that only, people have used it if that were the only one, if that's what we want.

But you've got to figure out which one we want.

Yeah.

And then we'll make it part of the business.

I'm sorry, I don't know about it.

I find ideas.

I find all the ideas.

Well, yesterday is sort of a classic day of where you had a fairly heavy schedule.

And then we added a couple of things.

Sure.

Events added to the suit in the evening.

I had a State Department lunch.

The kind of thing that I can do.

Oh, hey.

No more pamphlets.

No more.

That's the key.

And there are some patents coming today.

I know that.

It's a place that needs financing.

Yeah, I told you that.

Why?

Well, I didn't tell you that to get half a cent.

I told you that just now.

You might as well get your chips out of that.

Tell them that you've gotten the report.

You know that you want Tosca kept in Greece, and you're trying to work that out, or you're going to work that out, or you haven't worked that out.

And how high do you think Tosca, how good a pitch he's going to make to you is?

I'll warn you.

that Tosca is the world's greatest monetary expert, and that you should call Tosca in for consultation, because he can explain to you what's going on in the world of monetary.

He says, all right, I'll have him.

I'll say, we can't bring him back.

He's a poor fellow.

I have a statement of the Greek Prime Minister of Egypt.

You know, this is not easy.

Thomas, who happens to have a variety of people.

Thomas, uh,

Even so, given all the problems, he's a wonderful friend.

But he is a hell of a friend.

And you're right in doing it.

But what does it mean now?

Are you excited about Minecraft or the country and so forth?

Do you have a recommendation?

No.

We don't?

Because we've got a lot to accomplish.

We've got to do more of that.

We've got to practice a lot of things.

No.

I want to sort all that out still.

And we're still working.

I mean,

Let's get at it.

And let's sit down and talk about it.

We've got to find different ways.

There's so many different ways to get across.

And also, you may have to figure it out.

You may have to figure it out.

You see, what is the purpose of developing a country on a certain issue?

You see, whether we change the polls on a specific issue.

Will it get mail in the Congress?

The answer is no.

The way you get mail to Congress is on the fact that they're directly asking for that.

I'm sure I can't believe it.

Or are they not able to find it?

To the fact that people are out there.

I mean, I mean, the mail to Congress, and I have something about that, that maybe is too shameless for you to do it, but if you do a televised press conference, you'll get some question on it.

I think you ought to say, we're getting it.

And I call on people to be on both sides.

Yeah.

I just say this is a matter that the people should decide.

The Congress, as far as I can determine, has been misguided in their view of what the people's opinion is.

And I urge the people of this country to write their congressman and their senator, not the president, because the action's on the hill.

I urge them to write and express their views.

Do they want taxes raised in order to keep these programs going, or do they want it?

Did Congress be responsible in holding the line on spending?

One thing we're doing is we've got our biggest gun.

We're dead.

We're running around the country and going out to see Congress and it's early.

We're not able to spend enough time making phrases.

He knows that.

We're going to have an age to value what I'm talking about.

But he's doing, you know, John, I hear you speaking to some Vietnamese ambassador today.

And that's almost as important as Henry Kissinger being Jack Javis.

I have an itchy idea.

That's exactly what I told him.

I couldn't believe it.

He asked if this happened.

He went, does that mean I'm an ambassador?

I said, what difference does that make to you?

He said, well, he needs to see me today.

I said, Jack, you can say no to a one-degree question.

You don't have to see an ambassador just because he asked to see you.

The son of a bitch is, you know, that guy is a super operator.

He's trying to cover it.

He's trying to see all of us.

But that is what we have to see.

Jesus Christ.

You know, John Connolly did that.

John Connolly would sit over there for hours seeing ambassadors.

You know why?

John Connolly would never see ambassadors.

Of course, I believe that.

And he shouldn't see all the Congress.

And all you have to do is meet right now.

So I would simply say, Mr.

Ambassador, my responsibilities are in other areas.

If you want to see somebody else, not me.

The problem is, and that's the way you manage your business.

No.

But the other thing is, you get into the thing where you go out in this Washington social thing, and you get to a dinner, and the South Vietnamese ambassador gets you in a corner and says, I want to come in and talk to you about reconstruction or economic conditions, you know,

Hold my, call my office.

And then again, close the office.

But also again, John, you're early to do a deadly, deadly business through the past few years.

You can't help us if you're grief-induced.

The difficult of the four areas are, they are difficult, at least.

There is a big game.

But all this other is still panning out.

Horrible panning out.

Crying, hurray, grief, not grief.

Totally.

I guess that's the problem.

That's why Christ wants me to sit down with all the leaders and do it, because he wants me to be as petty as they are.

That's really what it gets down to.

He thinks that will satisfy their egos.

That's just, again, tenets is correct.

Tenets is that what we know we've done to happen.

Tenets bothers us.

We have a loser every time.

They cry and so forth.

They go, wait, it's a mind game.

What good is this?

They don't even go away and say it's a fine meeting at most of those.

They go away and say, well, everybody else got their pitches in, but I didn't get mine.

We didn't work with one.

He didn't spend enough time.

Or the boys didn't talk too much and didn't listen to us.

Yeah.

Or somebody else talked too much.

That's not a big deal.

I was always a talker.

Why?

Why do you have to talk so long?

You're always one guy who should dominate.

They all get mad at you.

That's right.

I have a lot of talk.

It is.

You're always going to talk so long.

That's what happened in all of us.

That's what happened when you were a lawyer.

No, I think we're doing the right thing.

Now, this, I think what I mean with leaders and so forth and so on, listen, they have a hell of a lot to tell me.

I mean, when I'm insured, it's not important.

You've got to listen to them and get their views.

And others, they get their views and put them on me.

There's really nothing that they or Nelson or any of those guys can really tell me about anything.

That, that, that, I've got to get there, because I must know what it's like to do something.

What's the best way to get the news across the ground?

To read.

I think I'm going to come in and spend an hour talking about content.

Agreed.

And that's what we need to do.

Now, a little personal contact.

The way the personal contact should be is, Bob, I need to go into your speech, listen to the thing, and then give a pep talk.

I agree.

That's about all I can do, is give the assholes a pep talk.

You agree?

Yeah, well, yes, I think you do have to do a little listening to him.

But no, no, no, I listen to him, but no, I listen to him.

I just stop.

I don't think I'm going in and listening to him bitch, but rather going in and listening to him constructively.

I mean, they've got to take some responsibility.

The rest of them listen.

He's got to listen to something that does some good.

But I must say, Ford was good.

Thank you.

Are with us most of the time.

Right.

Go away some of the time.

They could be with us more of the time.

If they thought they were pregnant with us.

Pregnant with us.

Like they haven't fallen off.

That's going to be sharp appropriation.

I'll do it.

That's wrong.

It does not really.

You're going to have to.

One thing I did is.

This is John.

I'm sure you'll be concerned about it.

All you ever heard is the domestic council is a cabinet.

I don't know why.

There's only two people in the cabinet that are on the domestic council.

What the hell?

People like to feel it's a cabinet meeting.

I mean, I think that he has advice that he doesn't have.

They don't like me.

You see, let me be quite candid.

They think the domestic counsel is something like my job.

And they don't think that, and too often we've had to be trying to attend.

So I say that there may be occasions when I'll just have a domestic counsel.

But I never mind there.

It'll be a candid meeting.

Now, the NSC is something different.

Everybody knows it is an elitist group.

And everybody would love to get in.

And it's a secret.

And it's a secret because it's different.

And therefore, you have no problem.

How does it sound to you?

So let's just make all the domestic council candidates.

And the council is working well.

We have two of those.

And they sit around and go a little, you know, this and that.

Which is good.

It's good for me to hear.

They're not structured well enough, but that will come later.

I think.

But John likes the unstructured meetings, you know, where people get a chance to maybe try.

Maybe they need that.

You know, look at the purpose.

If the purpose is, there is some time.

Well, there is a value.

It doesn't give you anything.

It's for the purpose of deciding.

It's for the purpose of giving you a little feel of it thereafter and giving then, more importantly, a feel of what your, your response, your, your.

So, Nancy, we're going pretty well now.

We're going well.

This is the domestic council.

Okay.

All right.

Take care of that.

When did we find any sign the other day on the cabinet, the domestic council, so far?

Did we see the cabinet once a month?

The cabinet, the domestic council, we decided every two weeks.

We said the domestic council for once a month.

The cabinet, you wanted to see every cabinet officer once every two weeks.

So the way it would go is you take the four weeks of the month.

One of them is a cabinet meeting.

One of them is a domestic council meeting.

One of them is an NSC meeting, and the fourth week is open.

Now, you've got two.

This way, you'll see them.

Two cap meetings.

One cap meeting.

Which is great.

Nobody explained about that.

In an NSC meeting, this week, unfortunately, it's the same week.

Now, on the leaders' meetings, that's perfect.

On the leaders' meetings, what do you agree on that?

I think you think we should come because we're just having big meetings.

It's not just for Scott Beck.

I think you ought to try it before it's Scott Beck and see whether it is able to force out the two.

Right.

I just think this.

You can have a big leaders meeting with all those speed surgeons sitting around.

Hey, the wild card is sitting around.

It covers an awful lot of ground.

Well, let's brush it, sir.

You can't cover that much more ground.

Try it.

that all the leaders are important.

And that in some ways, like they make the point, Johnny Rhodes is in some ways more useful to you and more powerful.

Right.

Than us or Jerry?

Certainly than us.

And that he's got his own clock.

And each of those guys, as John Anderson, has his own clock of people that he can get things done with.

That's why I don't think, that's why I personally think I've got to change my mind on that.

I think it's got a four-year-old

They love them, but it isn't enough.

And it really isn't that, but it's for my benefits.

Yeah, the only question I have, what benefits do you get out of it?

Why aren't we better off?

I've had a couple times a month.

I mean, I think they could have told them all about that veto strategy.

I don't know.

It's useful to them to do the best that you can.

It's got a lot of sanity.

I don't know.

If I could pull out the whole group, that would have been far more useful.

If the rest of them didn't try, I can't do anything here.

I don't want to be in the house.

Just wait and see.

And then they make sure.

They made fun of that.

The classic one, apparently, from Blue Arrow, played it back in tennis, was later in the meeting when Scott said, well, Mr. President, when the whole group goes one way, should I vote out?

What's your guidance?

Should I vote with the group, or should I stand alone and stay with the administration position?

He said, you know, it doesn't make any difference.

You can vote.

Nobody gives a shit how the Senate votes.

This is just marvelous.

This is David from the Texas Attic.

Why fight the battle?

See, it doesn't have to be irresponsible.

Just as well, we get the Senate out there and we're going to fight a bunch of goddamn fools.

That's what I've been talking about in these last few years.

We won't be delivering rules.

We can't do anything anymore.

Not anymore.

Oh, and we handle the conference.

It would be helpful in the conference, and we need to keep the... saying what you did is great.

We need to keep the impression of the interest in the Senate.

going to.

You can't just turn them off.

Like they were talking on this idea of keeping with ranking members.

They were saying, well, just keep with the ranking members of the House.

There's no point in meeting with the Senate.

Well, you know, they came back today.

We've got to do the Senate, too.

Actually, Dan, I'd rather take a look at what John could have done for the next meeting with the leaders of the nation.

Now, there's another thing.

Rather than meeting with some of the other leaders of the nation, what do you want to be doing today?

Thank you.

It's interesting doing that stuff once in a while.

It's a unique variety.

You can't

You can't just sit and do the same thing all day.

That would be great.

And John is a lovely type guy.

John loves, he loves, he's a frustrated, he's a hard one.

He loves, yeah, but he's never talked.

But that's what he loves.

You know, it's not a trick.

He just loves to sort of give you the tour of explaining what the buildings are and all this stuff.

He's great.

I just want to give Zach a great big blow.

I've kissed her in a way.

Yeah.

Well, we're going to get this team checked out.

Why not, Larry?

You know what I'm going to be thinking of?

I'm thinking of Laird, the guy who knew the Congress, to make the really big plays.

Now, Laird, out of defense, is one of the shrewdest, most vicious, ruthless sons of bitches there is.

He probably hasn't got a goddamn thing to do.

And he has a little money, not much, a little money.

Well, let me tell you, I know John, but that's not purposeful.

I mean, stupidity.

Oh, shit.

That's the typical misguided politics of inclusion.

No, no, no.

It's a white southerner.

So what does he do?

He goes as far as...

He's not the kind of guy who would suggest that to me.

Yeah.

Years ago.

I mean, it's a big play.

It's a big play for other people.

And it's the wrong big play.

No, it's the wrong signal.

Ruck is not the man to be president of the United States.

Let's face it.

For several reasons.

One, the country is not ready and cannot take a black for president in the United States.

And even if it could, Brooke is not the guy for it.

Connie loses the election.

I'm convinced of it.

He loses lots of the Senate.

They all vote for him for Senate, but not for president.

In the first place, I think he would not be able to wheel a Republican convention.

I don't think even if he got a nomination, he could go to the convention and say, I want Brooke again.

I don't think you have many people in the country who are bitching about much of anything.

One of the guns is...

They had a press conference yesterday, and today they're taking a special order after the record business, and they're going to defend the spending ceiling and the fiscal responsibility for the government.

I don't know that I would recommend you bring them down here.

I'm going to ask first what they're doing.

Yeah, they have a special order.

Each of them is taking the floor for five minutes, and they're going to defend the president's budget overall ceiling.

They're not going to give any priorities within the ceiling.

All 43 of them?

Well, no.

Anyway, anyway, uh, uh, yeah, it was,

They're going to be frustrated about it.

They're going to find us.

They're going to tell us about it.

What you said?

Well, uh...

They did not come down for the purpose of this discussion because they have nothing to read on.

But I have no objections to that.

What I had in mind was to bring them down just for a very brief thing in the category where they all came down presently just once to thank us for what they've done.

Now, what time do they finish?

Well, it's hard to figure because they still just put the orders at the conclusion of the business today.

This is Wednesday.

Yes, sir.

Okay, let me explain.

You can put McClellan and Park on it.

They should all win the fight for Park.

And then I says, I've got to get the hell out of 545.

They don't even fight back to be on the barrier.

Now, I'm thinking, they already come down.

I'm just saying, folks are having to get down because the president thanks people when they support him.

This is one of them.

None of this gives you a chance to get a few lives or not many in that group.

But it gets a whole, a whole, a whole gavel of them down.

And I'll go to the end.

I'm going to listen to them.

Thank you very much.

Goodbye.

Do you know what I mean?

Yes.

Why not?

Yes.

Why not?

You know, the thing, too, is we'll get Scott and the rest of the committee, and they start doing everything.

That's recognition for what they've done.

That's all they should be recognizing.

If anybody does anything, we must recognize them.

Well, they made some pretty good inroads into buying that freshman class, and it's another step in locking that up.

That's how we get it.

If we can hang on to it.

Well, if you can get 30 of them, for example, with solid, that's a pretty good start.

140 volts.

If you get a virgin, 35.

30, 35.

If he gets 30 of them, he doesn't have to.

Now, let's say if I call McCall and see if he can make it to four.

If he can't make it to four, don't pass the cash to McCall and tell him the president would like to have him for breakfast, too.

That's it?

You can't make the four?

Yep.

Okay.

I'm the president.

I can make the four o'clock for breakfast at 830.

I don't know if y'all know something like that, too.

What's the problem?

Y'all might like to do a breakfast.

Forget the four o'clock.

Sure.

Say the president just, uh, he, uh, he had a breakfast date.

He got, he got, he found you on the schedule.

He knocked it off.

I'd like you to come if you can.

I'll help you with your hands.

You know, anyway, with something like that, the breakfast is easier.

It works better at 8.30 when you're just doing a couple of them.

Yep, just an 8.30 breakfast.

And then I'll tell them I'll be through by 9.30 so they can go on down to their hearings.

Okay, and 5 o'clock we'll pray.

That gets down to their level.

The only time I feel about it, the only time we can listen to the leaders' pitch, which is bad enough, but the only time that I should.

And the way we can really handle our people is really to thank them for when they do things.

And now then, we just need a little bit of them to be able to participate.

We've managed to get them to participate.

We can't send us time.

And also, they don't really offer anything that they shouldn't do to you.

I shouldn't get into that kind of crap.

Do you agree?

I do.

Well, it's just like the person that's been doing, as you know, this talking up on the Hill.

So what does that do?

That's fine as far as the first round.

But what it does is generate about 300 phone calls a day to a room from Congress, which he can't handle.

So he just goes down to Bill.

Bill's office checks back the phone calls.

What are they about?

They want their cousin appointed to the pension board or some constituent who went out of jail or something like that.

And all of a sudden, they're open.

Or you.

No, I think they're open.

They should do it.

But he should show you the calls back.

The state, first of all, should make the contact, cover the ground, and then get the hell out.

He should not get into handling the constituent plea problems.

Well, that's going to be a thing for a long time.

Well, but I mean, the minute you get into this, though, I know these guys are going to take them on a high level, and they'll say, well, I'm Paul Murray, but what about my cousin who wants to be the postmaster?

It's like this incredible thing with Carl Curtis, you know, that, Jesus Christ, anyone's avoided this.

He's ridiculous to me.

He's a good man, Curtis.

I guess he's just a little bit disappointed.

He takes shots at us.

He wins by 53%.

We win by 75%.

That's a great example.

I think that's a lot of...

He's just probably a lot of fun.

Sure.

And this guy, he wants to find us a little turkey, of course.

Who doesn't want the employment?

Well, he wants to stay where he is.

Curtis, I'd like to read it.

Yeah.

It's sort of like Kissinger with a son.

Kissinger, you should teach him, though.

He's not going to.

He's going to go to church.

He talked to him today.

That was a few days ago.

I talked to him yesterday or the day before.

I'm keeping it yesterday.

He's back in court.

I'm keeping it.

If I don't...

If I don't... Yeah.

Sure, I...

She's leaving.

She's pretty good on confidence, but she's leaving because of borders.

She doesn't like the job.

And, well, so she's leaving because of borders.

Fine.

But I'm sure you've got to, you know, you understand exactly how it works out.

Actually, the Senate, we're going to need them on trade.

We're going to need them on energy.

We're going to need them on that.

Sub-Soviet New York.

But don't, don't break our ass on that thing.

I think we need to just act as if we don't punch you.

And we care about the Senate when we realize it's hopeless.

Thank you very much if you want to support us.

Bye, folks.

On these things.

For no reason.

If a couple of things, you see, they come in here and say, Jesus, I've got a hell of a problem.

You've got to help me.

You spend all your time worrying with Curtis and all the other guys.

What do you do then?

Let them go.

Let them be irresponsible.

And you know some of them will not be irresponsible.

They begin to think we've got a problem.

Jerry Ford has the same kind of problems.

His guys have every other year.

And there are three times as many

We all think it's about something we can do for Wagoner and his roots, because that's where we're going to have to go in.

But it's Wagoner.

Thank you.

He said, we're planning that.

I'm not saying he's not a Republican.

He's only because they've done something.

But Joe, you say, Joe, the President has asked me to let you know that you're to let him know any time you've been competing in this order to be useful.

And he'd like to hand you down as Democrats.

He also came to tell me that the President, you had made an analysis, and you did for me.

And I had not realized how far I had gone.

And I had Tommy in the court here yesterday.

He believes that's one of the most dangerous things that's happened in the Congress in the whole 190 years.

And I think so too.

Thank God the Senate didn't go that direction over the many years.

What the hell did they mark up a bill in the public?

You'll have your responsibility to run out of your ears.

That's what television cameras do.

But yes, they do.

That's what the market does here.

The market does.

The market of the field has to be in executive session.

Then we let our members in.

Let them all come to press.

And you just can't write it all that way, because it bubbles.

Well, how about this or that?

We've got to talk very candidly about it.

Well, we can't get this through.

We couldn't get this done.

Can you imagine talking compromise in public session?

Would they like a conference report, for example?

A conference committee in public session?

See my point?

That's what they're for, isn't it?

I'll tell you, open democracy, that is a goddamn dangerous way to run the country.

And the open rule.

Oh, I know that.

You know, I know the open rule rules.

The tax bill is going to be traced.

It's going to put a lot of those guys in disorder.

I don't know if they're going to get a tax bill or a trade bill.

It's tough.

It's very tough.

Probably me too.

It's a goddamn thing.

But it's not hardly me too who's going to ask that broken school lady.

Property tax doesn't bother me.

They all need to get that broken school thing.

But you understand, he sure knows.

And John, the way I know it, the president doesn't want to get married to John White.

He was horrified by it as a former member of the House.

And he just shunned it.

and feels that it's very important that the responsibles, he wants to work with, he's not trying to divide into a party, but he wants to stand with the responsibles, the Democratic Republic, and against the irresponsible, the Democratic Republic.

You see, that's the approach I'm making.

Other things that were really worthwhile.

The meeting before it was worthwhile.

The State Department.

And the rest of it.

Mayors.

Copyright.

Robert Mackey.

and I'm desperate to go over a lot now on the extension of this program.

The reason that you say goodbye to Ambassador Paul is that we broke over on Ambassador Yankity.

Yeah, I didn't see my wife.

I shouldn't be saying goodbye to Ambassador Paul.

And you've got others.

There's a deputy prime minister from someplace that's here that they think would be very good at it.

No, we didn't see her.

And there will always be an exception.

Every guy who comes to town, there's a reason for an exception.

And there is.

I mean, each guy is different.

He's got something in his case that makes him a reason to accept.

And if you follow up, you'll see everybody wanders through it.

If you need it for it, too, would you have some ideas about what you can do with the telephone?

I guess you're excited about it.

Yeah.

Bob, if you're talking about this roadshow extravaganza, I think you've got to do something about that.

That doesn't appeal to me in some way, but I don't think that's the right thing.

The idea of getting all the editors, so they write it in order to help them.

And they don't read any outside of their district.

So you've got to, you've got to try to accomplish it.

You've got to get one hell of a lot of evidence.

What?

In the name of God, there's a man who proved the war.

He's got to prove that.

He apparently did it.

That's what you were talking about.

In the name of Christ, this is what I can't remember.

I don't remember either.

That's why.

That, that's what I'm saying to you.

Yeah, I guess it is.

No, no, it's the OMB.

Oh, that's fine.

That's one we shot in that I think I suggested you not do.

What is this man crew in the floor trying to get some of this stuff going on?

Those are the awards, sir, that were recommended by Hanson that have been discussed.

I hope I've heard a ton of them, sir.

The losing of that mission to the city is the most amazing thing I've ever heard.

Well, now, that is utterly ridiculous.

That is utterly ridiculous.

Now, do we agree?

Yes, sir.

Are you sure now?

Do we agree on the mandate of the bar?

Yes, sir.

Now, you've got to run these by a bomb in the future.

You think you're in the game, don't you?

I think that's what I said in the rest of the draft.

I'm not assuming, is I?

Thank you.

It seems that he did not come along to the meeting without having some discussion with the court.

Sure.

They do have a discussion.

He discusses with John.

And that's noted that Mike suggested that this has been a cycle of things he's been doing some of, so it came in.

Are you okay with having no discussion with the secretary?

Absolutely never.

Just an all-in picture.

I don't mind.

Let the poster child that way.

The retarded poster child would be impressed.

What the hell was that?

Just an all-in picture.

I'll do it.

Three minutes, Bob.

Three, three, Bob.

Come in, Bob.

Have them have gotten that award and get their ass out of here.

Clear.

All right.

That's enough.

Can I say the one thing, Bob?

It's just a schedule thing with Bob.

I'm sorry.

No, he may as well.

May as well.

Go to the grocery store.

The date for the president's visit, the Soviets want us to give them a date.

Any time in the second half of June.

And, well, I imagine it's the latest matter because it's a back-breaking schedule.

It's going to be a huge success.

We've already got four... Five successes.

And, uh... How long does it run?

Seven to eight.

Yeah, but he wants to travel with you next year all over Russia.

Yeah, well, that may be all.

I don't even know who he is.

Well, he's counting on thanks, and then he asks you.

Well, that works out fine, because that brings you right up to the port in July period, and you're going to be out of town.

Could we put it the last week or jump?

I don't know.

Yeah.

Let's do it the last week or jump.

Do you think we'll be at the end?

We'll be at the end.

How many weeks from now?

How many months?

You don't know that.

He wants to go to Camp David.

Of course.

But I'm going to go all out for him.

And that's where he's going to be.

He also, he hinted that he wanted to go to keep his gang and see his boat.

But I told him it's too hot.

I told him it's too hot.

But let's get his boat up here.

I'll tell you what to do.

Take him for dinner on your boat and go down to Mount Vernon and then use his boat to go ashore.

Take a little run down and back up or something.

They told me it was dangerous to use his boat on the Potomac.

Well, we've always been saying that, but no, we're going to take the whole week.

What do you want to do?

What do you want the dinner here?

No, I'm happy if it isn't for their embassy, too.

You can agree to that.

I want it because they went to our embassy, not what it is.

Well, your state dinner doesn't have to be the first night, does it?

No, sir.

They didn't have the first night.

But it's...

I'm telling you, the Breedon's thought is that he thought Brendan would appreciate it if when he arrived he could go up to Camp David and then have his formal arrival the next morning.

Then he doesn't want to be in Camp David.

Not that, but then the Breedon's recommendation is to have perhaps two days here, then one day in Camp David, and then... Well, you don't want to arrive at Camp David and then go back to Camp David.

Yes.

I don't think that's a good idea.

I think that's a, he can't, but.

I mean, then you could go back to Camp David with him for talks.

Oh, okay.

Everybody wants to rest.

Why don't him arrive on Friday the 22nd and spend the weekend at Camp David?

Yeah.

Come down here on Monday, or sometimes during the weekend, whatever he wants.

Then come down here and have his arrival Monday morning.

Right.

Then have the dinner.

Eat him on the other Tuesday night.

Then maybe we can have dinner on the night.

I'd have it Monday night.

Monday night.

Then the return dinner.

What's the date of all of this?

25th of February.

Good.

Let him spend, if he wants to spend, let him invite me to come on Friday if he wants to go right to Camp David Center.

But he also wants to have a present.

We've been reading from Michael so much about what he, the president, can do up at Camp David Center.

They're counting on a Dave's talk at Camp David.

Okay.

You can run out in the middle of the week for a moment, sir.

That's right.

So 25th and 26th here, 27th at Camp David.

Then what would be the end of this, the 2nd or 3rd?

The 20th and the 28th, maybe you could be there returned at the embassy.

Then you go west on the 29th or 30th.

Yeah.

Now, he may want to stop one other place, but he could go to a space center or something.

We're going to stop somewhere on the way out without the present.

That's right.

The present should go out at any moment.

Not the present, the reason.

So it would be better for you to stop somewhere on the way.

Ah, it's a small detail that I want to be sure you know.

We'll have to use, this is our guilty, but we might use the old one.

Because I need, I need...

Yes, I think it should go here.

Well...

He wants to make a stop on the way.

Let him make a stop somewhere in the country.

If he's on the plane with me, they'll have to use the old plane so they don't have the attic facility right next to me so I can sit with him and not have to go back to staff and everything.

I hope you get the other one changed so we can do the same thing.

It won't work this way.

So we'll...

But if he goes with me, just use the old plane any place.

And not...

And then we wind it up and sanctum end it.

Now, that means all of the communication and so forth would be issued out there.

Sure.

Well, there'll be two things.

There'll be, if we can get, the Freeland and I will have to be meeting in practically daily session to get this goddamn thing done.

We can have a signature a day, just as we had in Moscow.

We've already got

Yeah, but then at the end, we're going to have an assault agreement with LARC, and we may have that nuclear treaty that no one knows about yet, which will be spectacular.

All of that will be in San Clemente.

You ought to wrap up on the 2nd or 3rd of that month here, Tuesday, so that you don't hit the weekend.

Well, 4th of July is Wednesday this year.

Well, you could have the final... No reason why, but I have it on Friday, 29th, around about 30.

Saturday, Saturday night, TV, Brown.

Can you question us how many days yet?

Let us work out a schedule.

Well, we can... We will have one or two things to sign if we can get them all negotiated.

Tell me this.

One thing I would like to suggest.

I am not, frankly, too impressed with the idea of his coming to stay in Camp David.

What I would rather have him do would be to come and stay at Williamsburg, perhaps.

Right next to me so I can sit with him and not have to go back to staff and everything.

same things.

It won't work this way.

So we'll, uh, but if he goes with me, just use the old plan any place.

And not, not, not their old plans.

Well, that's all good.

We'll accept that.

I've got that.

We have a variety of facilities.

And then we wind it up in San Clemente.

Now, that means all of the communications and so forth would be issued out there.

Sure.

Now, I wanted to piece it on during the week.

Well, there'll be two things.

There'll be

If we can get, Rufrin and I will have to be meeting in practically daily session to get this goddamn thing done.

We can have a signature a day, just as we had in Moscow.

We've already got four of us.

Yeah, but then at the end, we're going to have a salt agreement with LARC, and we may have that nuclear treaty that no one knows about yet.

Which will be spectacular.

All of that will be in fact lamented.

You ought to wrap up on the 2nd or 3rd of that month here, Tuesday.

So that you don't hit the weekend.

Well, 4th of July is a Wednesday this year.

Well, you could have the final... No reason why, but I have it on Friday, 29th.

Wrap it up on the 30th.

Well, we can.

We will have one or two things to sign if we can get them all negotiated, as we had in Moscow.

Then we're going to have two or three super things.

Tell me this.

One thing I would like to suggest.

I am not, frankly, too impressed with the idea of this coming day to day in Camp David.

What I would rather have you do would be to come and say at Williamsburg, perhaps,

But what I mean is, he should have come to Camp David, come down and go back to Camp David.

That's a bad girl.

She should go to a new place, you know what I mean?

And I would like to be in Camp David with him at least once a week.

Like Eisenhardt was talking about.

That's what he wants.

And I don't mind, as a matter of fact.

No, I can't have him.

He'll have to have a formal arrival.

But I don't mind having him spend a weekend.

I think the thing to do is ask for freedom.

Yeah.

He would still want to go back with you for talk.

He could go to Camp David on Wednesday, but I don't want to go twice.

No, you wouldn't.

You wouldn't.

You should not see him.

No, it isn't me, it's him.

He shouldn't go to Camp David twice.

I mean, it has a certain feel.

He ought to go with you.

That's your damn right.

I should go with him and stay with him up there.

He spent the night nice enough.

He goes up there in the bed and he's seen it.

He's seen it.

And the ground's all gone out at night.

He doesn't want to go to New York.

He's bubbling like crazy.

I mean, they are...

He'll love it.

If we could take a China trip every two weeks...

He'll love Disneyland.

That would be great.

We'll do it.

We'll go out and show Disneyland.

He says... Why not?

Why not do that?

Why not impression?

You see, the reason that the president particularly wants you to go to Disneyland is because it's just the other way you can go.

And he'll get a great welcome there.

The president will guarantee it.

What he wants to do, he said, next year, he personally wants to escort you through the Soviet Union.

That's great.

I wonder if it doesn't mean too many.

I don't know.

With him, they'll want to meet him, too.

Too often, when I go, they all want to meet the president.

And I say, oh, yeah, for the two of you to go to Disneyland.

That tells you next year.

Oh, there was the other vision, Henry, that was a Tanaka.

I've already told about how Tanaka, we had that in the middle of the month.

So you get a Tanaka word, you know.

Before the Soviet thing.

I think you should.

You said a lot of words in a lot.

A lot of words in a lot.

Who was it we said we wanted in June?

We've got to get one off in June.

Do you have the blue flags or the black?

Who's this coming after?

Early June, I don't know if there's somebody else in June.

June is a good one.

I have a bird.

Would you like it?

I'm not going to play the song.

It's up to you.

We had to figure out to not get in May.

Well, you better get that for me at 4 o'clock, okay?

Get it for me at 4 o'clock.

I thought there was some reason you were shifting.

I don't know.

I didn't go over this later because I see it's a good thing.

That's all I'm guessing you are.

Well, we got Joe also wants to come over, but he's in debt, so you shouldn't see him.

Well, I might see him.

There's Joe.

Like I saw the other foreigners.

That's an excellent idea.

I mean, but we shouldn't make an estate with it.

Oh, I'm afraid of that.

I'm afraid of too much gussying up.

I wouldn't mind doing it in a subtle way on a private dinner.

Well, you see, the advantage of having lead on private dinner, it almost forces them to behave themselves.

Yeah, exactly.

No, no, I've told the state the way I've handled this.

A vast state of defense to make recommendations by the end of this week.

Right, right.

Then on the basis of those you can... My point is, I do not want to jeopardize this POW return.

The day that it returned, we can bomb them, but Jesus up.

Do you understand?

I think, Mr. President, you will never jeopardize.

I have a view of the church by being cut.

Let me tell you this.

What I want to see, I want to see if there's a little, if there's a little change in what the crisis we want to get out of this.

How are you?

I just want to get them on board on this.

Oh, we won't order a bomb until we get their paper.

Then I'll show you their paper.

Tell me the attitude of these people.

You saw the rain in the breakfast, didn't you?

I saw it last night.

And?

How was it?

I'll catch you.

No, that's fine.

I've got campus coming in.

I've got to be busy.

Come on, Caleb.

It's just a mind game.

two wire photographers in there because there are 53 cities.

Fine.

I don't know.

We won't have the friends, just the two of us.

We'll send out little special releases in the program.

Right, but the wire department is fine.

But don't try the TV.

No, no, no.

Only one a day.

Yes, one a day.

But I did want them to have the work.

They won't take all the pictures.

Well, they will.

Why not go around and take pictures?

No, no, just get the group.

It's just no sense.

All right.

You see, that's what the outside doesn't understand, is how we've kept the guard of keeping the Chinese and Russians both standing after us.

They take it for granted.

But I know one thing, once you are gone here, and the next fellow tracks it, that takes

They're going to find it.

See, they all think that this is all done through mirrors and grandstands and so forth.

And that basically we just do this on impulse, correct?

That's the one thing that worries me about almost all the people we're talking about here.

They've got that impulsiveness.

They don't realize this is a cold-blooded proposition.

It isn't.

It's not a cold-blooded proposition.

And also without bluster.

We don't bluster, you know.

I mean, we take a hard line out of it.

I talked to the marcher and shouted to try to whatever it's called.

Oh, yeah.

And I told him about how you operate.

I told him about the POW thing last week.

I said, there were two levels which you had in the newspapers.

I want the president to drive it because he'd be such great supporters.

Let me tell you something.

Well, they were up on their feet.

Were they?

All kinds of guns.

Well, that's great.

But that's an important thing.

We need that for aid.

We need to save the money.

Yes.

And I think you'll get it.

I said, listen.

You know the president.

It's not a humanitarian program.

It's not a relief program.

It's not a do-good program.

It's cold-blooded.

And afterwards, Jack came up to me and he said, of course I can support it now.

Good.

He's very conservative.

But the Russians, to get back to your question, are really bloody.

They've given us a list of... Do you think it's because of China?

Oh, yes.

Before I went to China, he was saying, well, whether there can be a meeting depends on whether we can agree to the nuclear treaty.

He was leading towards November.

Uh...

Now, he says, there has, it's... Do you think they have a Chinese infiltrator?

No.

You don't think Mao, for example, would have got to them?

No.

That would scare him to death.

But the new elected Mao, they want me to come to Moscow to work out the details.

Sorry.

I think we've got to do that.

And also, it's important to get the president's position.

and I can run through the thing with it.

Absolutely.

When people think that you just sat down and negotiated these things and shake hands and they were all good friends, well, that's such a crap.

Such a crap.

Your summits have worked and the others have not because everything was meticulously prepared.

Well, I know what that's done.

No, no, but it was, you know, it's the best of it.

But I never believed in talking to you.

And I leave you a conversation to show.

You must address it in my own conversation, Colonel.

That was the reason why I write that letter.

That's the letter you see.

It's a funny conversation.

He's picking up everything you said last year.

Unbelievable.

And then Russia.

And everything.

All on the open now.

And you conducted, after all, 16 hours of conversations with Joe without a note.

That's the preference.

He was the same one.

Yeah, but I mean...

But most of our people, frankly, in government, will not work hard enough to... You know what it is, Henry?

I think they go to too many social groups.

And then, President, if another message to you is that the major thing he's looking forward to is seeing you and the...

Right.

But you must tell the brain, you know, it might be worth it.

This is a very small thing, but it will get the message across.

And I'll say, look, I don't have this time.

Remember, I told him that I wanted to plan this visit.

Now, look, I'll say, let me tell you about the campaign and this and that and the other thing.

I'd like to take you for a ride in the boat.

I'd like to do this.

And I see him next.

He comes in again next week.

I'm going to get it done.

I don't want to run into him.

Well, I was going to go to the Soviet embassy tomorrow, but we could get him over here and see you first.

Fine.

Well, we'll have to see you tomorrow.

On about one o'clock.

I'm sitting at four to one.

I could have lunch with him at one.

Oh, thirty.

I could do it at quarter to one.

get it back to the guy.

Good idea.

Excellent idea.

It's more in a personal way.

Good.

Then I'll shift it, I'm sure, over here, rather than the Soviet embassy, which is perfect.

Well, I'll have left there next week.

I'll just say you wanted to...

I wanted to see you, and he said he thought he has a luncheon at 1.15, and said could you come and order a house at 1.15 from the National Library.

Good.

Excellent.

Very good.

But we still have this

Hang up on the nuclear treaty.

Oh, I know, I know.

That's just something dangerous.

Well.

Oh, now the other thing.

Did a fellow get a PCU that saw you last night at the dinner or called you last night?

It's some guy from New York Bank or something like that.

He's just back from Europe in Geneva.

He's a real bright guy.

He wanted to see me.

He said he'd seen the germs and the rashes on his business, and I saw him.

I said, well, Dr. Schultz and so forth and so on.

I don't think the Germans should be led to float.

Because we didn't do anything.

And I would say to him that you'd be prepared to do something to leave him.

To play a more active role now that they're at a loss.

That's right.

Okay.

That's right.

And I've been... And I've prepared him for that because I've spent an hour or so... Well, the phone last night.

I wish you could have seen it.

But I haven't called back.

He hasn't called back.

Tell him David Rockefeller was in yesterday...

He said, well, I want you to know the president's going to go down as one of the great figures of the 20th century history.

Which, for David Rockefeller, is unbelievable.

Was he based in Vietnam?

On Vietnam, China.

His reception in Eastern Europe, which they were all baffling about you.

Really?

Yeah, he said.

He loved that.

He said, well, but what he found astounding is that Tito and Cochesco were raving about you.

He said he's so glad you didn't abandon him.

Well, good.

Well, you know, I'm going to talk to that consul, that inter-American consul he has for the defense.

Thank you.