{"conversationCode":"872-003","tapeNumber":872,"conversationNumber":3,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-872-003","startDateTime":"1973-03-09T02:54:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-03-09T03:05:00.000Z","startDate":"8-Mar-1973","startTime":"9:54 PM","endDate":"8-Mar-1973","endTime":"10:05 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.; Kissinger, Henry A.;","description":"On March 8, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and Henry A. Kissinger met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 9:54 pm and 10:05 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 872-003 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"OVAL","recordingDevice":"Oval Office","latitudeEstimated":38.8974,"longitudeEstimated":-77.0374,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 872-3\n\nDate: March 8, 1973\nTime: Unknown between 9:54 am and 10:05 am\nLocation: Oval Office\n\nThe President met with Stephen B. Bull.\n\f                                               -2-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                               Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)\n\n       President's schedule\n             -Additional meeting\n                    -John D. Ehrlichman's recommendations-Telephone call\n                    -New York\n                    -Leslie T. (“Bob”) Hope\n             -President’s radio speech on crime and drugs\n                    -Draft preparation\n                          -National Security Council (NSC) meeting\n\nHenry A. Kissinger entered at 9:55 am.\n\n       NSC meeting\n             -Kissinger's briefing\n             -James R. Schlesinger's briefing\n             -Length\n             -Termination of meeting\n       President's schedule\n             -Meetings\n                    -NSC compared to Cabinet\n                    -Length\n             -Changes in today's schedule\n             - President's meeting with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin\n             -Meeting with Mustafa Kahr and Aziz Ahmed\n\nBull left at an unknown time after 9:55 am.\n\n       Treatment of Kahr and Ahmed\n            -President’s meeting with Kahr and Ahmed\n            -Embassy events\n                  -Attendance at dinners\n                        -US state department staff\n\n       Elliot L. Richardson\n              -[First name unknown] Cooper\n\n       President's meeting with Kahr and Ahmed\n             -Meeting with Kissinger\n             -Military aid\n                   -Daniel P. Moynihan's State Department recommendation\n                   -Refurbished equipment\n\f                                            -3-\n\n                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                              Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)\n\n                  -Armored personnel carriers\n                  -India's production\n                  -US obligations\n                  -Peoples Republic of China [PRC], Iran\n                        -1972 election\n                  -Kissinger's recommendations\n                  -State Department\n                        -Problems\n                               -Congress\n                               -India-US relations\n                  -Conciliation\n                        -Moynihan\n                        -State Department\n                  -US aid for India, Pakistan\n                        -Release\n                               -Contracts\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous National Security (B) withdrawal reviewed under MDR guidelines case number\nLPRN-T-MDR-2014-037. Segment declassified on 05/31/2019. Archivist: MM]\n[National Security]\n[872-003-w001]\n[Duration: 5s]\n\n      The President's meeting with Mustafa Khan and Aziz Ahmed\n           -US aid for India, Pakistan\n                 -Baluchistan, Northwest Frontier\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n      Vietnam settlement\n           -Defense Department\n           -Withdrawal of troops\n                 -Rate\n                 -Relation to Prisons of war [POWs] release\n           -POWs\n                 -Unnamed Air Force major\n\f                                                -4-\n\n                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                         Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)\n\n                  -Homecoming\n                  -Praise for President\n             -Troops\n                  -Retention\n             -Nguyen Van Thieu’s state visit\n                  -Protests by antiwar groups\n                         -Le Duc Tho\n                         -Sense of confusion of groups\n             -POWs\n                  -Criticism of protesters\n\n       NSC meeting\n           -Length\n           -Multiple Independently-Targeted Re-Entry Vehicles [MIRV]\n           -Meeting with Anatoly F. Dobrynin\n                 -Delay\n\nKissinger left at 10:05 am.","filename":["872-003.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Bull, Stephen B.","Kissinger, Henry A."],"prevCode":"872-002","nextCode":"872-004","transcript":[{"start":2.79,"end":5.59,"text":"This is the field of the chefs."},{"start":5.61,"end":5.59,"text":"."},{"start":5.97,"end":5.59,"text":"."},{"start":5.99,"end":5.59,"text":"."},{"start":6.33,"end":5.59,"text":"."},{"start":6.35,"end":5.59,"text":". ."},{"start":36.92,"end":45.47,"text":"I have a draft on your radio station tomorrow."},{"start":45.49,"end":48.99,"text":"I'm going to be just right after you return from the NSC."},{"start":49.03,"end":49.72,"text":"I don't need it."},{"start":49.88,"end":51.48,"text":"I don't need it."},{"start":51.5,"end":56.7,"text":"I don't want to spend more time with the government."},{"start":56.82,"end":60.08,"text":"I don't want to be there until 1 o'clock."},{"start":60.22,"end":61.93,"text":"I don't want to be there until 10."},{"start":75.37,"end":90.02,"text":"At the meeting today, I think it was going to be too much time for me to go, but if you let Schlesinger give the briefing, and then let me sum up what the issues are, because otherwise there'd be total confusion."},{"start":92.78,"end":94.8,"text":"It's getting to Schlesinger."},{"start":102.31,"end":102.98,"text":"But I think we can ."},{"start":103.03,"end":104.21,"text":"We made an error here ."},{"start":104.25,"end":107.63,"text":"So in the future, Steve, be sure to check ."},{"start":131.75,"end":137.11,"text":"But we have a meeting of this importance, which is going to be important, too."},{"start":137.13,"end":140.65,"text":"So in other words, call this round, and shoot them back to 12."},{"start":140.75,"end":142.37,"text":"Shoot these people back."},{"start":143.13,"end":144.25,"text":"Everybody better get back."},{"start":144.33,"end":147.51,"text":"Why don't we send people in, of course, to Washington tomorrow?"},{"start":147.95,"end":148.15,"text":"Correct."},{"start":148.75,"end":151.17,"text":"I'll get the preamble coming in next year."},{"start":151.23,"end":155.15,"text":"So in other words, you've got to call back."},{"start":155.19,"end":156.66,"text":"We'll never make it tonight."},{"start":156.68,"end":158.96,"text":"I don't want them sitting around here waiting."},{"start":159.29,"end":161.32,"text":"So shout out to everybody."},{"start":165.8,"end":167.42,"text":"rather than bad social treatment."},{"start":168.42,"end":168.54,"text":"Ah."},{"start":169.22,"end":175.3,"text":"Well, no one will go to their dinners and... Well, that's what the Christ is to say."},{"start":176.26,"end":177.12,"text":"Well, they won't go."},{"start":178.78,"end":187.93,"text":"Now, Richardson may hit you on that Cooper fellow, because I've told him after our conversation that he should give us first crack at him."},{"start":187.97,"end":190.21,"text":"You remember I talked to you about him on Saturday."},{"start":190.91,"end":195.51,"text":"Just want you to be aware if he does that I've told him to... Yeah."},{"start":197.11,"end":198.19,"text":"No need for you to raise it."},{"start":198.21,"end":202.52,"text":"I don't know whether I'll have a chance to see you before the Pakistanis come in."},{"start":202.56,"end":212.27,"text":"The issue is Moynihan said everyone is violently opposed to doing anything at all for the military."},{"start":213.51,"end":220.81,"text":"We have a million dollars worth of old equipment here that is really theirs that we were rebuilding."},{"start":221.83,"end":226.1,"text":"We have those 300 armored personnel carriers that they've already paid for."},{"start":228.75,"end":239.81,"text":"The problem is the Indians produce more in their own production than the Pakistanis do, and this is simply cleaning up old obligations that we've undertaken to them."},{"start":242.29,"end":253.12,"text":"And we've already told the Chinese and the Iranians that we would do this right after the election, which you had promised prior to the..."},{"start":253.31,"end":257.14,"text":"I mean, when you were there, these are all old obligations."},{"start":262.31,"end":266.87,"text":"My recommendation is to... What will it do with the Congress?"},{"start":266.97,"end":267.89,"text":"I suppose that's the problem."},{"start":267.97,"end":269.59,"text":"The state's worried about it and so forth."},{"start":269.61,"end":271.42,"text":"Are they just worried about the goddamned Indians?"},{"start":271.45,"end":272.76,"text":"They're worried about the Indians."},{"start":272.82,"end":275.42,"text":"But we're going to get tremendous luck again."},{"start":276.84,"end":277.9,"text":"We're going to get the same."},{"start":277.92,"end":279.44,"text":"The state will lead."},{"start":279.58,"end":283.64,"text":"Moynihan will lead."},{"start":285.29,"end":287.07,"text":"I'm strongly in favor of doing it."},{"start":287.63,"end":289.09,"text":"We can release the 87 million..."},{"start":290.57,"end":301.33,"text":"to the Indians at the same time that we blocked at that time and say we're cleaning up all old obligations."},{"start":302.21,"end":303.74,"text":"I mean, these are old contracts."},{"start":303.75,"end":304.98,"text":"These are not new contracts."},{"start":307.28,"end":316.82,"text":"My recommendation is that we release for both sides all the things that we had blocked."},{"start":334.78,"end":337.24,"text":"But you don't have to say this to the Pakistanis now."},{"start":337.74,"end":339.61,"text":"You can just listen sympathetically."},{"start":340.29,"end":343.03,"text":"But anything we discuss with them goes back to the Chinese."},{"start":344.23,"end":347.24,"text":"And they are in a hell of a spot, and the Indians are trying to kill them."},{"start":369.39,"end":389.13,"text":"And one other thing we have done, Mr. President, tentatively, is to tell defense to hold up the last increment of the withdrawal and pull all of them out in the last two days, because if we go out at the rate of 500 a day, we'll have only 500 left on the day that the prisoners are supposed to be released."},{"start":391.19,"end":391.87,"text":"And then they can..."},{"start":391.89,"end":395.57,"text":"This is the first time we've had one Air Force major so that we... Yeah."},{"start":396.13,"end":396.43,"text":"Who is he?"},{"start":396.49,"end":396.59,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":397.86,"end":403.11,"text":"I just saw it today for the first time."},{"start":403.29,"end":405.27,"text":"I saw their homecoming on a Monday."},{"start":405.31,"end":406.65,"text":"You saw it last night."},{"start":406.67,"end":408.63,"text":"They had it on TV at 11.30."},{"start":408.73,"end":413.81,"text":"I thought it was really moving."},{"start":416.59,"end":418.63,"text":"And they all praised your efforts."},{"start":419.81,"end":420.55,"text":"Go ahead."},{"start":423.01,"end":424.1,"text":"And, um..."},{"start":428,"end":438.43,"text":"So, with your approval, I really think we should keep 5,000 to 6,000 there and pull them out on the last day, rather than pull them out a little at a time."},{"start":438.63,"end":443.43,"text":"If we pull them out 500 a day, we have no pressure to let you..."},{"start":443.45,"end":448.66,"text":"I see two anti-war groups announced plans to protest Jews' visit to the U.S. My God damn thing."},{"start":449.68,"end":452,"text":"Are they going to protest?"},{"start":452.06,"end":452.8,"text":"Dr. O'Connor?"},{"start":453.6,"end":455.76,"text":"Oh, no, they'll be demonstrating for us."},{"start":468.46,"end":469.5,"text":"completely through."},{"start":472.27,"end":473.23,"text":"They don't know what to do."},{"start":477.39,"end":483.9,"text":"Well, and a lot of these prisoners are saying on national television that the protests related"},{"start":506.61,"end":509.76,"text":"is whether they include some of the limitations."},{"start":511.9,"end":519.82,"text":"I think we may be able to finish it in an hour and a half."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and Stephen Bull met to coordinate the President’s schedule, streamline upcoming National Security Council (NSC) meetings, and address sensitive foreign policy matters. The discussion centered on managing U.S. obligations to Pakistan and India, with Kissinger advising the release of previously blocked military contracts to fulfill long-standing commitments. Additionally, the participants reviewed the logistics of U.S. troop withdrawals in Vietnam and the importance of timing those departures to maintain leverage for the release of prisoners of war.","topics":["National Security Council","India-Pakistan relations","Military aid","Vietnam troop withdrawal","Prisoners of war","Foreign policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-08T22:50:15.361Z"},"topicSlugs":["national-security-council","india-pakistan-relations","military-aid","vietnam-troop-withdrawal","prisoners-of-war","foreign-policy"],"audioDurationSec":544,"audioFiles":[{"file":"872-003.mp3","bytes":3647488,"durationSec":544.17,"bitrate":53622,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:00.697Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:44:52.249Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/872-003.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/872-003","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/872/conversation-872-003","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}