Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 872 › Conversation 872-023

Nixon, Timmons & Bull on Congressional Relations and Republican Party

Thursday, March 8, 1973 · 4:34 PM–4:44 PM ET · Oval Office · 7 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.; Timmons, William E.Conversation872-023 on Tape 872StartThursday, March 8, 1973 at 4:34 PMEndThursday, March 8, 1973 at 4:44 PMRecording deviceOval OfficeSourceNixon Library record for 872-023 ↗

President Nixon met with William E. Timmons and Stephen B. Bull to prepare for an upcoming visit from a group of freshman Republican congressmen. The discussion focused on bolstering party unity, encouraging fiscal restraint regarding the federal budget, and strategizing on how to maintain support for potential presidential vetoes. Nixon decided to use the meeting to express his appreciation for their legislative efforts, emphasizing personal rapport and the administration's readiness to assist these new members in navigating congressional procedures.

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Uh, did you get the dentist tomorrow?
Yes, sir.
It's right over here.
That's good.
Fine, fine.
We'll, uh, have that.
Bill, uh, what is the score on, uh, these fellows now?
Are they coming in?
Yes, sir.
We hear, uh, 39 of the 40 of them that be down.
They have their special orders yesterday.
They did very well.
Did they get any press?
I suppose not.
Uh, I didn't see a thing in the local press.
But the day before, they got a little way at a press conference.
the day before last year to just fight this.
Well, what do they need here?
I just want to, I mean, talk briefly and just thank them.
Is that what you want me to do?
Yes, so thank them.
I hope that they hang together as a unit a lot.
There's a lot of street decor.
They can get in a fight together, even if they lose sometimes, and kind of get a buddy on a buddy.
Now, they talk about the budget and things in their country.
That's right.
Fiscal restraint, ceiling, spending ceiling.
They did not get into the priorities within the spending ceiling because some of them kind of feel different on that.
But Common kind of hooked them together, and they meet regularly every week.
He's the president, of course.
And they're talking about Congress is going to reform its own budget process if they're going to be responsible.
And they all took about five minutes yesterday and did a real good job.
I read some of it in the congressional records.
Um, Jerry Ford requests that you might say something about, that you recommended the meeting.
Or, always take the lead from Jerry, because he wants to kind of get a hold on you.
Yeah, all right.
Well, I don't know what the lady's here to say.
I think that we can talk about vetoes coming down the pike, and that those are political votes, and that in the past, we've had great support from Republicans, although we've used some Democrats on that.
But you hope they'll see their way through to support you on budget matters, because in a way, vetoes are political votes.
And I think that's kind of important in light of what's coming up in the pike.
I think you can sympathize with them, being a freshman congressman, not knowing the way around.
And sometimes it's hard to get acclimated to Washington and to their committee assignments and to the procedures.
that the administration is ready to help them in any way it can.
And we've talked to them at their seminars.
I have, Ehrlichman has, the House guys have.
I think they're a little frustrated right now because they just can't get a hold of issues yet.
So much to consume.
That's why they organized themselves and wanted to do something.
So they got special orders.
Cotton's a real leader, I think.
He's pretty aggressive, and he makes up on some toes, but by God, he's very aggressive.
That's right.
He's doing stuff.
I'm kind of anxious to check and see how they're doing today.
They have this vocational rehabilitation bill up that you vetoed last year and will probably veto this year.
Earl Landry offered a chance.
Well, it was one that Jerry said that he thought could not sustain, but on the administration's substitute that was offered by Landry, we got 165 votes.
And the substitute held it as your budget figure.
Now, they went on to pass it, that kind of thing, after we lost the substitute, but I thought that was showing courage with 165 votes.
And I checked up with Earl, and he said that a lot of the freshmen came in and helped him on that.
Of course, Jerry was in swinging, too, so that's a good sign.
You're going to have them in here, I think, now.
I thought that would be much harder.
I do, too.
Just to be here in the office.
How do you feel about pictures?
Group picture?
Or do you want individual pictures?
I don't think I would have any.
I think it's better just to have them come in on us.
We've had official pictures of the law before and so forth, and I think it's, I think this should go through and essentially stand there.
No, they haven't requested it, and I don't think they care, really.
They had, most of them, I'm sure, had pictures when they were campaigning, because you get so many of them.
summer and fall, what you might do if you want.
You just get a picture right at the beginning.
We can run them through quickly.
I could talk to them outside and say, we're going to show you quickly.
You get a picture inside that you can have, and then the president must talk to you as well.
I think it's really a good group.
My association's with them.
Most of them are pretty sound guys, and I think they'll do well.
There's one woman, Marjorie Holt from Prince George's out here.
All right, if you want to set up, just say, over here.
And I want to tell them I was speaking for you.
It doesn't have appreciation, so they don't have to pay for it.
I'll leave in 15 minutes.
I'm writing it all out for you.
Good.
Thank you.

On March 8, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Stephen B. Bull, and William E. Timmons met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:34 pm and 4:44 pm. The Oval Office taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 872-023 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 872-23

Date: March 8, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:36 pm and 4:44 pm
Location: Oval Office

The President met with Stephen B. Bull.

       Dentist appointment

Bull left at and Timmons entered at 4:36 pm.

       President's meeting with freshmen Republican Congress members
             -Number
             -Press coverage
                   -Press conference
             -Topics of discussion
                   -President’s appreciation
                   -Unity
                   -Budget restraints
                          -Spending ceiling
                          -Priorities
                          -Regular meetings-James Conlan's efforts
                   -Congressional budget process
                          -Congressional Record
             -President's remarks
                   -Gerald R. Ford
                          -Influence
                                              -55-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                        Conversation No. 872-23 (cont’d)

                  -Vetoes
                        -Need for support
                        -Democrats
                  -Help for freshmen
                        -Lack of experience

       Freshmen Republicans
            -Timmons’s, John D. Ehrlichman’s meetings
                  -Frustration
            -Special orders
            -Conlan’s leadership
            -Vote on vocational rehabilitation
                  -President's veto
                  -Administration's substitute
                        -Earl Landgrebe
                               -Ford
                               -Support of freshmen
            -Meeting with President
                  -Photographs
                        -Location
                        -1972 campaign
                        -Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins
            -Timmons’s impression of group
            -Marjorie Holt
                  -Prince Georges County, MD
            -Photographs
                  -Atkins
            -Length of meeting

Timmons left at 4:44 pm.
  • 037-062 3:25 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 3:25 pm.
  • 037-063 3:26 PM · 58 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Henry A. Kissinger talked on the telephone from 3:26 pm to 3:27 pm.
  • 872-020 3:34 PM · 2 hr 29 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Lelsie T. ("Bob") Hope, John D. Ehrlichman, and Newbold ("Newby") Noyes, Jr. met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 3:34 pm and 4:34 pm.
  • 872-021 4:34 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:34 pm and 4:36 pm.
  • 872-022 4:34 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:34 pm and 4:36 pm.
  • 873-001 5:01 PM · 51 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald A. Sarasin, Edward R. Madigan, John B. Conlan, Marjorie S. Holt, George M. O'Brien, Clair W. Burgener, L. A. ("Skip") Bafalis, Samuel H. Young, William M. Ketchum, Steven D. Symms, James P. ("Jim") Johnson, William H. Hudnut, III, Robert J. Huber, Paul W. Cronin, Benjamin A. Gilman, Tennyson Guyer, John A. Proven, Robin L. Beard, James G. Martin, Matthew J. Rinaldo, James Abdnor, Edward Young, Stanford E. Parris, David Towell, William F. Walsh, Robert W. Daniel, Jr., Angelo D. Roncallo, E. G. ("Bud") Shuster, Harold V. Froehlich, William E. Timmons, M. Caldwell Butler, Ralph S. Regula, Donald J. Mitchell, and Trent Lott met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:01 pm and 5:52 pm.
  • 873-002 5:52 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:52 pm and 5:55 pm.
  • 873-003 5:55 PM · 43 min — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:55 pm and 6:22 pm.

Conversation 872-023, March 8, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/872-023 (accessed October 6, 2026).