Conversation 877-001

Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

And I said, now, I said, we've got to resubmit this month.

And I said, what?

What can we do?

And I said, show me the options.

He said, well, we can do it.

But he said, the weather's very bad.

He said, we won't have a window four or five days to monitor these.

I said, that won't do.

I said, there'll be a whole lot of heat work.

We've got to use it.

about six months before, and there's my buddy.

I said, well, if it's the brother that introduced the war, they're going to fight a war, and they're going to lose them.

All right, fine.

So we ordered it, and it was rough.

The war was at our house, at the White House, the White House, actually.

It was a small state, and it was going to be somebody at night.

And, boy, it was rough.

We lost five on Friday.

We lost one on Tuesday, Friday, and the next day.

Because they were flying at the same time, so we changed the pattern.

I say we, but I never told them on target.

It was a critical day, a critical time, but it was really one that most of you probably remember.

We called the Christmas ball.

in the 36th grade.

So he was reading on me.

I was just over his time.

And I grabbed him and I released out.

Bombing wasn't working.

You can't bomb and continue the Christmas bombs in the Christmas season, right?

So that was the point.

And then I called Mr. on the phone.

I made the mistake.

I thought, oh.

And I said, I think we could get a whole farm and tell them we're going to resell the farm, but not with a penny annual thing.

We want to do it on a small basis.

And I said, every 52 that can fly is to fly.

So that was the end of the 116.

You must have heard that.

Oh, probably we heard it.

Oh, that's good.

I wasn't just hanging around like that.

Anyway, so much for that.

That's so short.

But the point that I made is that all of these decisions had been made despite the fact that I, if nothing else, I know what public reaction is.

I know it.

We were going to do it, and I said, do it with maximum force.

Show the literary skills, which I knew would go so far as to do that.

So it worked.

Now we have our easy pieces, the best in the world.

People can say, well, why didn't we get that?

Why didn't we get that?

But the South Vietnamese have got a chance.

They've got the biggest army in Asia.

They've got more morality than Greece.

They're doing quite well in these scourges that they're having at the present time.

I think they can survive.

made an argument, not pretend only, but that's an argument that means just have an interest in turning in.

It made a difference.

That's it, sir.

That's why I wanted to see my point of view.

Well, I already saw it.

I'd like to weigh in on this, sir.

But as you mentioned here, I wasn't always the boss, but I'll tell you that I was your little partner when it came to things like the design of the car.

Which one?

The 1852s.

There was a lot of talk about, you know, the whole kind of reeling population.

The guy?

Yeah.

The guy said, well, the guy that's going to be the brain, I'm afraid to say, you might say, today we'll pray for the integrity of the president of the United States.

After that little service I got with him, I said, no.

I said, no, we'll pray for the integrity, let's pray for the powers.

Let's just pray for it.

Our gratitude to the President is that he's got in-line therapy labs.

We're not hitting people.

We're hitting military targets here.

And we've got, we were the first time in this war, we went through a fly shock.

The Army had to explain this to me.

And that person, of course, is to have cause.

They said, you've got to use shock.

I said, what the hell is shock?

They said, well, it's divvied by another person.

And then they explained it to me.

And you probably don't know what it is.

Well, say you've got a platoon on there.

Well, if you've got a battalion against someone, you want to put that thing to the ground.

Actually, you want to rent it and combat that effect and kill them all.

You want it to be ineffective.

You can take your battalion and open up with a rifle, a rifle, two rifles, probably about 20 or 20 rifles, and then an hour-rigging machine gun and three hours of artillery.

And by the end of the night, you've got everything you want.

You start through that valley, and at the end of the night, you do what's left of the fight.

There are tools that don't have to look like that and hit them.

With everything you've got, in five minutes, they become that enemy.

And that's one mistake we made in this war.

Sure.

Exactly.

Oh, yes.

It doesn't take the whole—it wasn't—it didn't take the whole business of the country, it was just seniors.

I think the ninety percent at least of everybody there are probably not expressed appreciation for it right off the bat.

When did you, when did you get the impression that you were going to be off on time?

I read the title.

I know they made it up.

I know they're going to say, well, I prefer to turn to the other person.

I predicted it just before.

What did you have a feeling?

Well, man, I made a decision.

I made it in May.

In May?

Yes.

Of 72?

No.

Before you set the blockade and started the blockade, I predicted that things would happen.

Such that by about September, I predicted by the end of September, we would have applied pressure.

They would have responded.

They would have made an offer which would not be publicized, but which would form the ultimate basis for the end of the war.

All these things started happening.

The offer was made on the 12th of October, so I think by the 12th, we were about making one.

You did it all.

I thought you would.

Of course, I couldn't predict exactly what was going to happen.

We did.

But I knew you wanted to.

You were better off than I did.

Of course, you knew the government wasn't going to get in there.

But had he gotten in there, we didn't want that at all.

And so I thought you were still your best to get out of that.

Because basically, this is the problem.

You see, the government position was to bug out the prisoners.

Now, basically, that would have been smart if only we had law.

They said, all right, we'll give you prisoners, not just by your withdrawing horses, provided you stop all aid in South Vietnam, provided you overthrow the coup, provided you stop all aid due to your handling, and provided you also get out of China.

That was their promise.

That's why they don't pay them.

And you couldn't pay that price for the person that you couldn't do it with.

The only answer I could ask was that you have no idea.

There might have been a Truman Dewey type thing, and you would sit here and say, well, hell, that guy's about to get in, in spite of what all the papers said.

So I'm going to try to end this war for the sake of this country before the election.

And the combination, we're going to say, well, if we think, ah, Mr. Dixon's going to get back in, so our time is up to him before the election.

So everybody is pointing at that time.

So I thought, well, that's probably when it's going to happen.

But if it doesn't happen, then it'll come day after day.

And it did, but they still got their dirty fingers in there someplace that we couldn't buy, but they wanted to work right.

And you know, just right.

And I had said when I made this prediction, I thought we'd end up coming home about January.

We'd be home in January.

That's got to be when we get back.

You're back in January.

And it came pretty close to that, but I had no idea that you'd have to mark and go into the—well, I was most happy when it happened, but I didn't know that they would have to re-push the mark.

I thought the blockade would happen.

I thought that would do it.

And I think it would have if we could have hung out the blockade, actually.

for another, which basically, by the blockade, I mean the mining plus the aerial attack on rail lines and so forth.

If we could have held out, our estimates were that our Vietnamese would have cracked by April, May, or June.

But what we had was the day of Congress.

And because here we had these clods down here, which is probably the most untouchable that's ever been done.

Even when they knew that history was going back to Paris, they knew this was after we received the message in the latter part of December that they had enough of the bomb.

At this moment, they said, we'll go back and talk about conditions we knew we had settled.

That's all.

That's it.

This was about December 28th in the city.

We had another 20 stairs.

That's right.

As soon as you step out of the bathroom, we would want to go to the bathroom.

Don't worry.

We would never stop.

Because I told everybody, I said, provided they're willing to talk seriously.

All right, they did.

Then that next week, the Congress came up and it was then that the Democratic Congress, and this is not just any party, this is basically a traditional partisan thing, that got a lot of good Southern Democrats in the Senate.

But they over-monitored the vote.

And even then, they voted to cut off all problems in Southern Vietnam and basically to withdraw their prisoners again.

In other words, before the cases are done, I don't see how he got the deal.

Because, and I think the more recent they got the deal, this is the curious thing, they thought I was crazy.

You're crazy, that's right.

They agree.

Well, that's why I say it, to do such a lonely thing for a woman, because the country didn't have the guts to do it.

You didn't have the public.

There's all this public and the consensus that you just have it in Congress or your own cabinet, and I do it.

But I don't care how long it took.

Lord knows the order.

Yes, he still needs to know it when I'm through, because he's had to sit over there, right?

Because he's learned from it.

He's learned from it.

He's got a lot of ideas there.

And Lord, for example, in the summer,

I was wondering, you know I read these reports every day.

If I were Eisenhower, I would watch every day, and I would have planned targets.

Well, I think Johnson used to plan targets.

I never did.

All I did was say, I'm just saying you folks should have done that.

But I always did plan the intensity.

And I said, all right.

But I noticed in the summer, after we got to the night of the blockade, after the enormous success of the Russian summit, and after it appeared that the government was going to be slaughtered in the election, I saw it.

And the weather was good there.

I saw the peace.

And we weren't making as many surgeries over an hour than I had kept the bucket.

And Laura told me,

After this, he said that he sent a number of recommendations to me to bomb NNR, and that they were not forward because the Secretary opposed them.

That's hard to say.

But you see, if we could have cracked them harder this summer, we could have busted them next summer.

Because they were really taking the bait.

But all of our reports of the coup, they were taking the bait.

Well, they learned to do it.

But you see, we have in this country, we have in this country, and these are patriotic people for us, but there is a certain softness.

I don't really suggest that I, I mean, I guess I earned the reputation.

I have probably, in terms of the personal, his office perhaps is one of the most, one of the biggest canvases that have ever been in this place.

But I always have to look at his office and at his company.

No one here can allow this emotional feeling to happen.

I'm a quaker.

My mother is a pacifist, and my grandmother is a pacifist.

And I grew up, my whole training is about war.

War is against you, and all is wrong, and all is wrong, and so forth.

My personal feelings are that way, but on the other hand,

There's one thing worse than war, and that's slavery.

That's what this is all about.

And there's one thing worse than war in this country as well as in the rest of China.

What was really at stake in how we ended this war, as I said earlier, was the American character and America's

and whether the United States would continue to play a responsible role in the world without having that question and showing a lie.

And I agree with both of them.

And I'll say something.

I know that never gives the American person

has to represent a country that is first, strong, and second, that is respected.

Now you can have all those nuclear weapons, the Polaris, the Osiris, the tribes that you want, but if you bug out of Vietnam,

The Chinese aren't going to respect you seeing what the Chinese-Russian game is.

Where's the balance?

I can't say my public statements are always, well, we want good relations with all people.

You've got to say this, because the university and all the soft-headed people around the press, they all come up and say, isn't that wonderful?

It's my understanding that communism is all that.

All right.

Basically, we say we want good relations with the leaders of the North and the people who live on this Earth.

And we want good relations with the Soviet Union, who are the second most powerful nation.

That second strongest nation, but a very powerful nation.

And I hope we did not.

You never say it publicly, because if it gets talked around that way, then it has to be brought up again.

Neither wants to be used again.

Basically, the reason the Chinese met me at the beginning of the Washington era was not because

Russians were very strong in my election for different reasons.

Now that's, that's all the way, all the way.

See, this is totally, in 1960, Khrushchev, you know, bragged that he felt that he, of course, everybody close to him could say that he affected the enemy, but he bragged that he posed an exit in life and so forth.

And they, in 1970, the Chinese,

He is.

That's why Joe and I said no.

The Chinese have a hard way of hearing the Russians.

They drive on the counter.

They have thoughts over the last two or three years, and we have not had a dispute with them about thoughts.

The United States is China's product.

and best friend of the long-range powers, not the recent Chinese one.

They want strong United States.

But it must be a credible United States.

Because if we are running for Chinese, if we're going to run for them, then that buys them some insurance against the Russian government.

But if the United States

is a country that's bugged out of a little bit of space like Vietnam.

And they're not going to minimize it.

I heard that we're talking to, that we had bugged out of Vietnam.

And actually, they're not Chinese.

Rather, when I first talked to you, I thought you were the neutral thing for what you should do is to get out of Vietnam and back down to the battlefield.

But you've got to get out of Japan.

I said, well, Mr. Prime Minister, I said,

I said, what's going to happen?

Japanese are either going to make a deal with Russians, or they're going to rearm.

They certainly are not going to sit there without a shield.

I said, wouldn't you rather have us have a deal with Japan and the Russians?

I said, it goes back this time.

the Russians for reasons that are very hard to understand is probably because they have a sense of history.

So you see, the Russians want to be able to nail everything.

Maybe that they can con the Europeans and go to the fracking test and all the rest of it.

We've got to play that in a very skilled way.

But basically, because we played the China game, I don't have the right.

Yes, sir.

Did China take all the greed under the table?

Did they say, we're going to stand down there a little bit too long?

Politically, we can't pull out.

Why don't we watch and look?

The best thing is to look at Russia.

I look to Russia.

10 things that we bought, came to mind.

Everyone had to rent a castle, something like that.

It was a great big public welcome, but prior to they doing it, I said, we had one very worried, much pressure that we're going to have to proceed with.

I went out to a gosh, and they gave me hell for $4 or $5.

And I was one of them.

I was all the time.

I was .

And again, it was rough.

They took me on.

I took them on.

I said, you're not going to trust me.

We're not going to do this.

That doesn't mean that the way you get along with them is to bust your dick.

I don't know why.

Because we were on this very quiet party.

It was all bad.

I never raised my voice.

I don't know why that doesn't go all the way.

But you see, they are impressed.

But very long.

But most important, on the bombing, they said nothing.

That's part of the thing.

He has raised that.

He, to his great credit, stood up last year.

I thought the British predicted it.

I thought the Germans, the Canadians were terrible.

The Austrians, because they got into the socialists.

They all... Let me just say, what we didn't have anything passive about, I would have to say, and they heard the mayor do that, but we don't.

And we kept what we do to see through as a private channel.

Because if you're a private channel, you're visiting your channel, not your state.

We keep them informed.

And they send us very panicking notes.

We know.

Absolutely.

You know what?

They can't believe it.

That was tough.

Half of it.

Three-fourths of it.

That was the big bucket room all the time.

China was there.

But the Russians sitting on that coast, it was not to them, and it wasn't to the Russians.

And that's what we told them.

So we got along very well in that respect.

So we got the...

So when you say we have a tacit agreement, no.

We let people think.

I mean, we don't deny it.

But all we do is to say, we don't discuss our opinions.

We don't discuss our opinions.

But I'm sure...

As far as the Russians and the Chinese concerned, I think they were, they told me, they were disgusted with the way our community handled themselves.

They thought they were going to, the Russians particularly, know, knew,

that the Vietnamese, they poisoned our relations, which they want, Boston, not Vietnam, otherwise, they wanted that, they over with.

The Chinese want it over too, because they've drained the Spanish, and they need it.

So they both want it over, and yet neither could get caught.

trying to pull the chain because in the world struggle, both China and Russia are trying to prove that they're still revolutionaries, supporting revolutionary governments.

So they couldn't get caught in a tunnel.

That's right.

The game was played just very well.

I see.

Does the outcast agreement simplify your prologue?

We don't.

And as I said, the bombings, that's true.

They were...

And they didn't make any public money.

They didn't run any administrations.

What else did you play that game with?

Nobody or no one?

Not at all.

Somebody or no one?

The, uh...

There was a couple of the present people on the scene that could come closest to it.

But he got cast.

It was probably a cop.

I think it was a...

It was a Texas... Irvington.

He doesn't have the international experience.

Not yet.

Well, it's self-serving, but I was fortunate.

I mean, I have international experience.

At least I know.

I've been to every country in Latin America.

Too many in Africa.

Most of those in the East.

All of those in Asia.

Every Asian country.

I know I've been to three of them.

I've been to three before.

Was there a...

I remember very impressive, there's some terribly impressive baby men out there.

I go back to, oh I can remember as a matter of fact an marvelous man, Spruance, this is the best you could hold me.

And then of course, the little animals, two little animals.

In fact, this is the actual little guy, the little guy who came along.

I think so.

He's got a little cancer.

or or or or or or or or or or or

It's disgraceful.

I mean, I would have thought that, you know, I mean, there's some things you would think they would show the censorship, but for the press to try to say, you guys were programmed.

That worked on a candlestick.

You couldn't be programmed.

After all, is that what you're going to be programmed?

Somebody had written

Well, I wasn't so upset about that.

Well, I wasn't upset about it.

I said, they would think you guys would try, because you've leaned over so far back.

Well, not to play games like that.

Well, we did a test for it, too.

We didn't go out to, you know, we did it grandstanded.

That was my order.

I said, no grandstands.

You've got to find that.

What we want to do is we want to do this stuff all in the right way.

For you, it hasn't been good.

I hope they treat you right, because I don't want to.

You see, you fellows are now...

They've got to realize that this nation now is not the state now.

You know, it's like running into a baseball player or a football player in here.

It's a very different thing.

But I had told him, you know, some of these guys that I know that may be on the needle or something.

I said, I don't care.

He realized that every kid in America, whether or not vitalizing, you know, says you can't vote.

And I think that you folks are, for better or for worse, because of what you've suffered, what you've been through, now the nation looks at you and you have a very, very high standard

What I meant is standard of conduct as far as supporting that kind of period analogy.

I don't mean from the standpoint of personal.

But you see, what is really great is the fact that you all come back virtually, or come back to a level.

It was a tough thing, but we're proud of it.

People need to hear that this country is a good country.

They need to hear that this country fought for a good cause, and they need to hear that this country succeeded.

We did pretty well.

That's what I'm trying to say.

And they asked me that question.

Of course, it wasn't the question.

I don't know.

WTR, I think, put that at the right time.

Back with that question.

We felt that this type of question would come up here.

It is a couple of questions.

Unfortunately, since you didn't think we got...

Oh yes, there was a lot of people that had out of line there.

And I tried to... Yeah, they tried to.

And it's interesting how impressed they were because they had such, you know, they picked one out.

He had a stretcher on him.

I hope you can be compared to that.

It doesn't look right.

It probably will be out in the 500 or so.

There are going to be 10 or 15 guys there.

Sure.

I'm glad Ralphie called him up right away.

He'd been there quite a while.

All he said was that he thought that we could have ended in 68.

He said that on television.

On the other hand, they tortured me in December of 68 to write for Amherst, coaching men.

Now that means that...

Our getting out then would not have been dignified had we settled all the terms under the tone that Mr. Harrington had arranged.

We would have come out there like dogs.

And they would have settled that.

That's right.

I would have gladly exchanged four, eight, sixteen years of my life to come out of there heads up.

And that's what he loves, coming out safe.

So don't let him know, don't let him know that there are going to be some guys who don't know that.

Sure.

They weren't tortured to the rest of their lives.

They were going to pick him.

And he saw the calls, actually, that went through the most, perhaps.

are the ones that are going to be the toughest and the strongest.

Oh, I think, without a doubt, that it is.

As is my understanding, there are only two of the first to enter the campus, sir.

If I'm to earn this all, you're going to be the worst 69, I'm saying, who didn't do, I think, except, like, two.

And you'll find out about them in a relatively single year.

One of them, I think, is going to be Bruce, the second.

In fact, there are going to be the rest of us in here.

He has not been cracked, but I think he was, uh, not even worried he was shot down.

But anyway, you know... Air Force, or Navy?

Uh, the Navy guys, but not, unfortunately, I don't know, it's not, it's not, he's kind of, given the thought, Terry had a war statement.

He was a Marine.

A Marine?

Oh, yeah.

Followed by Mary Hammersley.

Is he a married flier?

Yes, he is.

Oh, God.

How many sick men?

Unbelievable.

Among them?

A great guard, all of them.

Yes, among the new guys.

I'm surprised you don't know that already, because I should have pretty much found a great guard when they lived.

One of them turned out to be a director, yes.

But frankly, I looked at the whole picture, and they wanted to make a big thing out of it.

One of the things that concerns me about that, that I

how the story and the atrocity will play, it's got to come out here.

The problem that I have with that is not that it should come out, but what it will do to our attempt to get this stage or I'm sorry, I don't know how you bolster that.

Okay, now may I ask you a couple of thoughts?

Sure, sure.

Ralphie and I don't know if this is quite the same, if we didn't have quite the same experiences,

In 1969, my dream was changed.

I was about to change, in 1969.

Why was it changed?

October 69th.

Yes sir.

And just for a minute, on November 3rd, we got to send the license to the chief.

Oh, gosh, I know we think you were, I think you were probably, you went racing out about that time.

That's right.

And, uh, that was the thing I heard, that there was a primary that had to be changed, that there were other things going on from Chief Hinton.

Yes.

Now, I don't, what I think, is what they have to take into consideration.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem.

Well, they were.

They had guys reading tapes, reading the news, things like that.

Nothing bad, but reading it on the camera.

I would die before I did that.

Just little things like that.

Nothing bad.

This guy who ran their program called me and he said, listen, I'm going to be talking to you for about a week.

He was just amazed by that he ran their program.

He was the B.A.

doctor at the government prison.

He said, I only want to tell you something.

I think, sir, that I established some integrity credibility with him.

The way I acted toward our side, he wanted me to bring this message back.

I don't know what's worse or different.

He said the treatment, the humane policy, the DRV for his first years hasn't been the same for 2,000 years.

And I thought, well, here we go.

But then he said, boy.

Over the last three weeks, I and a number of my colleagues have been required to do self-criticism before the people, for our part, failing to apply that policy properly.

Now at this time...

He spent all this time telling me that he had been required by his doctors to consult with his colleagues.

I just couldn't believe it.

I looked at one of the curveballs, and I said, you're not going to tell her the same thing.

She said, well, I promise you.

But I'm telling you that I have been required to self-criticism.

Well, certainly, the long story short, she must have been around for quite a while.

I don't know.

No, why don't you, the cab is probably, has already had coffee.

He gets one.

No, no, no, no, no, I got time for it.

But I wanted to, since I know you like coffee, we have a, we have a, we have a, we have a coffee that, that, that, that, that.

This is just an input to your essence of what the truth about our treatment will have on the DRP, or whether they would try to withhold prisoners or something like that.

You don't really care much about that.

In addition to that, giving him this long pitch and giving him the back, that's why he's so charged.

You know, disappeared by that guy.

I called him fast in the camp because he was trying to play games about

special treatment, so I called and asked, uh, was your father going to get a call from you?

He asked, uh, did you decide for two weeks in, two days?

Nobody did.

I made it voluntary.

Everybody just made it up.

I didn't order stuff.

That's not good.

It's just because he was trying to get his dirty fingers in five.

I drank one through better than the other.

I told him to stop.

It was hurting our grounds.

You guys were hitting each other, and it was making some effort.

So I told him what I was going to do.

Oh, absolutely.

That's right.

Well, we let him get it out of the side.

He didn't get it a little bit better, but he let them exercise and then play games twice as much.

They were just starting to let us play games and get out of the side.

They were just about to piss off.

Right.

So I warned him.

He didn't stop, so I called him.

So that's just to show them that...

They don't treat us equally.

They have no possibility to provide us by treating us unequally because they won't even assess these questions because it came right.

Yes, all right.

I can give you a story like that.

I can give you about a week.

The important thing is that they got really big issues.

The important thing is just another companion piece.

This is just before we released Top Tail Rider.

uh, and even a, a threat that, uh, served the Restoration Act.

And he said, I don't want you to see me go home.

We're agreed.

They said, Nick, you can flip him off.

Flip him off.

You people are going to go home.

And the United States policy is to flip him off, flip him off.

Now, they believe you're the hardest rock in the world, and they don't mean to hurt me, and they think you're tough, but they were, they, they, what they meant is, I don't want to talk to you.

You're a great city.

Um, he said,

you're going to go home and you're going to cause them to flip their policy and not go through with itself.

In other words, not give us RA.

And they said, if you go home and slander our treatment toward you, we will publish and to show to corporations

And I said, as far as anything, the coach on me has to be positive.

And he said, well, I'm going to be grateful.

And I said, they trust me back there.

And he said, well, I'm going to be positive.

And I said, the truth is, before 1969, you treated it as worse than that.

And most of that time, you treated it as an enhancement of their recovery from the New England conventions.

But by your standards, you probably would have been the main cast of the Soviet Union, according to some of our new experts on the military, on the military.

You know, you've had 16 rowers in the military past, but not many on the program.

And as I said yesterday, he spoke back to his chair, his eyes, and said, that's not true.

So he said, well, I'm not worried about all of you, sir.

I'm not worried about some of your companions.

Why?

I think if we lay out on the moon what treatment was, after all the men are out there, I think the American public, with the police they've already got, is going to be big enough to buy it.

And I can say this.

If any deal got worse treatment from them, I'd let them step forward.

But I would be glad to administer the hate if you decide to give it to them.

That's the important thing.

If you and the leaders, a few leaders, if, for example, one of the crunch powers, I'd like to make that public.

You'll think about it at the time.

Perhaps the

It may be too early for time, but we'll have a briefing.

Not everybody feels the way I do, Mr. President.

I'm sure you had a poll about 55% would be in favor of

Yes, that's right.

Because they also know that somebody else is going to make the decision.

a mandate under the United Nations that we got distracted, necessarily, over in Europe, went through the Marshall Plan, and NATO kind of pulled out of there, and in the meantime, Ho Chi gets his aid from China, and comes back and starts the revolution.

Well, now we've got another opportunity.

We've got a chance to say, we're real for them.

And human people are stimulated, not only to work for them, but stimulated for a necessity supply.

And if we remove that stimulus by providing it to them,

I don't mean kill a papa, but I'm in favor of the stick with the bomb, as well as I don't care.

But do you remember what that's doing to most people?

That's it.

They know what we're doing.

I don't mean just those.

And they still love us from the way we were in World War II.

They love us.

There's some of them who remember this.

They remember the expression, OK. And they dig America.

As a matter of fact, the Vietnamese, I say this from my first year at the University of Missouri.

And I was older than that.

And I had a bowed eye in the first year.

on that.

I was there at the end of the sixth on the ambulance.

And he was doing very well then.

And he did better.

He was not too bad that he was murdered.

But actually, that's what the water and the

It was a terrible error.

You cannot, I don't care, you did it 50 times, let it down, but you can't murder your friends.

That's right, that's right.

And we were there on all the record shows.

It's like, for example, our case, Batista, how to kill them.

Now, Batista's no good.

I mean, no Latin dictator's any good.

But any right-wing dictator's better than a communist dictator.

That's the point.

Castro's terrible.

I mean, that's the soul of the entertainment.

That's the heart of the show.

I love the people.

In fact, I like the people.

I like the people.

Yes, they're not bad.

But they're not cruel.

I mean, they're not cruel, but so are the Chinese.

Yes, they'd rather lie than tell the truth, if there's nothing to gain from them.

But nevertheless, they have more guns.

That's right.

And they have more energy.

They have more energy to lay oceans.

They don't know it.

That's right.

I hope, because I was there, I met the and so forth.

And he said, let's put him home.

And I was like, well, that's all right.

And the ties, you know, I love the ties.

They're always on the right side.

Some of them are.

But the Thais, it's no accident.

The Thais have never been on the losing side.

In other words, they're the Swiss.

They're the Swiss of the European Union.

Well, it's bad.

Perhaps it's right.

But at the end of the day, when you compare them to the Malaysians, when you compare them to the Indonesians,

But if you could, well said.

We've got to give it a chance to try to turn toward a different relationship.

That's what's getting us these hours and all these falls.

I think it may work.

But it's worth trying.

Otherwise we need to get out.

Totally.

Or we had a terrible situation of letting the valve ring and our heart really bothered.

Nobody wants to do that anymore.

People don't want to start it again.

I mean, if you just hold it here while you say, okay, you're seeing it, I don't think it hurts at all.

In other words, you're doing it just perfectly.

You're doing it just perfectly.

You think that actually what will happen is that the stories will probably come out shortly after the last one or how?

I think it would be okay to let them out because the leaks from before, you've heard your head down on those, plus the leaks that happened since then, I don't believe in the leaking.

I think the Republicans can accommodate this and if we put an end to that mandate by

and say, well, that's just one of those things.

Right.

They are different.

Well, that's right.

Well, let's face it, of course, the difference is we get over drugs.

But what the Germans were a nice group of guys.

And the concentration camps were horrible, unfortunately, yes.

pretty hard.

And what do we do?

We help.

That's right.

And we say that now, here these people are.

Well, it's one of those things.

I think that could be important, Mr. President.

I think the way we do that could be a step forward to establish the kind of credibility you're talking about.

But the steel is, you know, we have.

And now, maybe we can establish some credibility in them.

You know, it's a real great act to do that.

That's right.

I hope that appeals to them.

Don't get me wrong.

That's where you can believe it.

Sir, if that's where I want to work, though, I believe we're safe.

And he told me, you know, about the next movies and this and that.

I've tried not to read this stuff because I don't want to get informed.

So I read this thing about male leaders and they said this.

They said Martin and Taylor are mostly women over 40.

They sit around and giggle.

They said, we don't have any young people, because they have no sexual hang-ups.

They have no sex hang-ups.

Well, the other thing is, they did, for Time magazine, and as we both are running this cover story, there's this brand-new picture.

There's a Martin and Marlon Brand-new picture.

Now, I don't approve of that.

but for them to run a little picture, which is just straight pornography.

It's no redeeming social value.

It uses words of the Supreme Court.

Not all.

And they run a half an hour picture of probably several Icon cases.

We are, but you see, it isn't just that.

It isn't just that problem.

There's also something else.

It gets down to, did that person come in like that?

from which we can derive their agents to their country and to you that very first they're not they're not conscious of anything at all any spirituality at all any occupation every even a clergy are getting to my vision i've been writing this thing in my mind yes sir i had these i could see the way we were going then all before you've ever captured yes sir

Well, of course, it started before that.

You know, these things in Berkeley.

That's right.

Berkeley and then spread to the east.

That's right.

You can imagine.

I'll tell you this.

You really want to see it.

So we should have been a man in the canyons.

We never would have been without these horrible things.

You understand, it has nothing to do with law.

We have a lot longer kids on our side.

But what it has to do with hate.

And I'd see young girls, you know, and all that type of thing, as we go by, and say, 14-year-olds.

And so you can be sure they borrowed us the movies, and that's the

And with the horror of the death toll, about 350,000 people were marching around and surviving.

My house was .

And then of course, we know that we have .

And we must get .

It's basically, part of the problem is New York and Washington.

It's not that you're out of the country, it's a pretty healthy part of it.

The south is much lower than the rest of the country because basically people still go to church in the south.

Many people move out of there.

The midwest is pretty good.

I mean, not the urban midwest, but the mountains, say, Illinois, central Ohio, Indiana is pretty good.

Then, of course, all the mountains because you have a certain character.

Texas is good.

Alabama is correct.

But part of all this is that there is a

Everything goes at once.

The moment they lose their religious glory.

That's right.

They then lose...

They got a little bad person started this way.

An individual must believe in something other than himself.

No.

I don't.

He doesn't believe in anything other than himself.

He doesn't believe in my religion.

He believes in something else.

The moment he loses that, then...

uh, he, uh, he began to use his faith in any principles, any, uh, well, now it's true that atheists can have a certain set of principles to be a reason that there are those that have to survive with it.

But, but, uh, it is, it's my hope that, that part of the reason that our, that many of our young people, as well as our older people, are, are, uh, a dread

hating themselves, hating their country, is that they've lost faith.

They have no faith in their God.

They have no faith in their country.

And frankly, they have no faith in themselves.

I can describe it from one language to another.

It's a collateral.

I can describe it.

I hate these people in the press corps out here who

The main point is basically their section.

Bill Henry, Bill Henry was a sports veteran in Los Angeles, came to Washington, wrote a column, was on Razor with Antonio, that's where they died in the year 12, Marble Slam.

But Bill Henry, his column was called, his column was called Lindo on Washington.

And the way he would describe it is that he said, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

And I told him,

And so, you don't write about what you see out there in that country, but you're looking in the mirror, and you write about your own frustrations, and your own papers, and your restaurant, and that voice is atmosphere.

Now, let me say it isn't just the press.

which were the Ministry of Prophecy.

And I just had some priest here in the worship service the other day, and he happened to be a conservative, and he was a pastor at St. Matthew's here.

He was terribly disturbed about the particular rejections he used to make.

But yeah, it affects, of course, the whole university.

It's about 75%.

We split even on the kids.

We had the last election about 50-50 in the university.

We lost the back of these, I guess, without them.

They were hating on us.

They were hating on all of our children.

Now, these are people who are hating themselves.

They're poisoning us.

I've seen kids survive.

I don't really see them.

I know that I've talked to many friends and senators, and particularly the IMB students here.

They've had their kids away in their car group, and the kids come back either on dope or what have you.

So you've got the men's people, you've got the, which comes up, you've got the intellectuals, the so-called better people.

Another thing is the political establishment.

There used to be, in the days of Robert Patton, and Dick Russell, and Walter George, and the rest, a certain great strength.

Now, we do, you know, vote a country-led party, but this rather disgraceful performance, we will probably never know it.

We have a hell of a time just getting by the scan of our key for being voted out of this board.

That would be the transfer.

We only got APM through by one vote in the Senate.

Negative.

It was a tie vote.

If we hadn't gotten ABM, we could never have gotten the nuclear implementation with the Russians.

Given the fact that you see the Russians

In order to get them to live on those, we had to deal with something that they didn't want.

So we had to engage, and that was the whole purpose of it.

And that was the deal.

We had this damn Senate, including, I'm just going to say that again, a true Republican's joint effort, whatever that was.

Now, it doesn't do the partisanship, because I might say, there's no one John Stennis, and others were great characters, or, but what I'm saying is that, in the status quo, it's not like,

Well, I think they were both in industry.

Yeah, I know.

I thought the nightcares were really good.

I know they did, but John's, John's, yes.

John was not as strong as Mr. Russell, but they all started.

Well, I had a lot of virtue and everybody deserved it.

So on that off-the-ground, why doesn't the president go on radio television and tell us why?

And to me, I thought, I'm supposed to do it.

And the moment I do it, then I don't give a damn to me.

a way out, and I put it to the Russians, the Chinese.

See, that's the reason I had to go on.

I had a bomb in my house.

I had to mobilize the country then.

And also, we weren't, we didn't have a deal at that time.

But here we had a deal already.

We're going to go over the way with that.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm saying the problem.

You were a graduate of the Naval Academy.

You also went to Georgia University.

So we are part of what should be the leader class in this country.

Let me tell you the trouble with America today.

The trouble with America is not with basically the Georgians.

or the Fitzsimmons, or the Patriots, or the rest.

The labor guys stood like a rock on the hill.

These owls and these bad grammar are supposed to be ignorant and all the rest, but they have the flag of correctness.

But we need exactly one.

And that one, basically, only for the barn folks, although they're basically isolationist stupidists.

But the lower middle class, the ethnics, the Italians, and the Poles, and the Irish, et cetera.

And frankly, the South, because the South basically has always been patriotic.

It's over.

including the business community.

The business community in New York was before the dam.

They ran away.

The business community is always wrong.

We're wrong on Hitler, and now it's wrong on communists.

I urge you in every way to think you're playing with the business community.

I know.

I tell them so.

And basically, so what you've got here is a situation where American education

has produced a leader class that is thought not human in the history of civilizations.

You will find that when they crumbled, they didn't crumble because they were weak militarily or poor economically.

No depression has ever killed a country.

They crumbled because their spirit, their character.

You're right.

You're telling my book, isn't it?

The other thing is, they didn't crumble because their common people went to pot.

Everybody makes that happen.

They crumbled because their leader class.

Well, that's their leader class, even the Geraltans, too, and the Greeks.

The Greeks became basically insatiable, and a lot of other things worse.

And the Geraltans were highly borrowed.

I look at the communists today, and their strengths and their weaknesses.

The strengths of the communists, believe me, are not in their theater class.

Whatever you want to say about Joe Biden, whatever you want to say about President Ford, I don't know about their personal life, but basically, basically,

The communist societies are highly puritanical.

Yes.

No, no.

It is not.

Let's hand it over.

It is how puritanical they are.

Because let's face it.

In Russia, they have autographed corruption arrests.

And in China.

Now, the leader class, the correct class, the moment it is not submitted, the Russian will drink to the Russian people.

The Russian drinks to much, perhaps.

He's allowed to have them in the vestiges or something.

I think a little of that goes on.

But that was thought, but basically, they're hidden.

In honoring the class, anyone who basically follows the so-called Puritan ethic, I'm not referring now to the personal foundation of the Puritan ethic, in terms of just fighting, frankly, guts and strength, guts and strength, principles, standing for it, come hell or high water, are the new class.

That's the problem.

I talked to Mrs. Penn.

I talked to University presidents.

I had all the Ivy League presidents in here.

The day, back in the week, I would meet Campbell in Kissinger City, but he's approaching Brown in his Harvard background.

We shot him.

He's gone.

He's in the presence.

They aren't saying, look, Mr. President, we'd like to know what we can do now.

They all came in and said, gee, we've got problems on our campus, Mr. President.

Don't you stop those things so that we can handle our own.

Now, that's a hell of a thing to do as the first president.

So they're awesome.

The professors are the worst.

So you see, the job that we have, you have, I have, what we've got to do, and I'm going to learn.

Except that you've helped all of the people involved by your coming back.

By your engage us to keep a high position.

If you will fall away, that's a right too.

Don't let them get frustrated.

Don't let them get disappointed.

They're going to be frustrated.

They'll be frustrated and disappointed to a certain extent.

And later on there will be stories about what happened in the field.

I'm not going to be the prophet.

It's not going to be about my experience.

It's going to be about what you're talking about.

The last people.

I don't know.

I didn't stop to ask him to say when the guy came in.

I said, what do you want to do?

I was supposed to say, I want to carry it right now.

I said, for the next year, I want a piddly job because I'm going to write a book.

I promised myself I was going to write a book about this thing you're talking about.

That year, I said, I'll be ready to charge you.

I think that's the way to go.

If you know how to carry a package, that's right.

You know how we have these stereotype steps?

We have these steps, you know, that have a two-track that's on one or something, and then a carrier, or two of us are going to list those things to make flag.

Well, I like to make flag, frankly, because I aspire to make it, you know, with my life.

But now, I want to do something really else with my life.

Yes.

I don't know how much it will help, but it may help some.

Yes.

I think it can help.

I think it can.

I think you'll be listened to.

got it in order to make it.

So, Rick, you've got to go on with the person.

Well, I'm just going to pretend.

In the introduction, I'm going to pretend.

I think if I set them in that far, I'm done.

I don't want to prosecute them.

You've got to do it.

I'm going to start each chapter with a little

I was sick and I was just looking for people to talk to, you know, and these are the thoughts that come to mind.

Right, sir.

Diary farm.

I know, I know, you're trying to get across to different people.

I'm trying to set it free.

You've got to say that you've got to see this.

Yes, I started writing on the bandages.

And when they found the bandages, they couldn't make it out.

I said, what are you writing?

I said, I'm writing a book down here.

But they won't dislike it.

It's not going to be only on that ground.

No, it should be about what's America's?

Yes, sir.

What's this?

Just what you're talking about is what I'm concerned with, and I just spent four years in solitary confinement for seven and a half years thinking about it.

I've got it written in my mind.

And I'm going to write it, and I think it'll help you or whoever the next president is.

If I can get it out and write it, I think God will tell me how to write it.

I'm ready to get a copy of my November 3rd speech.

November 3rd, 69.

Good Lord.

See, I want to read you one paragraph.

You're telling me more.

You're giving me a lot of writing.

Here's where the problem is.

How?

I like to talk to every individual.

I do it by the time I do it.

I've got to work on how to be a name.

That act of orientation, of self-subjugation to God, that's where we've got to restart.

You see that?

Hi, here's a free phone.

If you're, if you didn't just report on it.

So three days before I was released.

And I said, you know, we just take them off because we didn't want to touch them.

Three days after I was released.

Every one of your speeches was funny.

Yeah.

Even when I was making speeches.

Oh, once I did.

I saw the little profile thing.

I don't know what you did.

Oh, sure.

They would present it to us thinking that they could present it to the bad light.

And I'd go all the way through.

I'm not just ignorant anymore.

Just flattering you.

I know you were speaking.

And I really did your depth.

I don't pretend to understand it.

I really did your direction.

Yeah.

My brother said today he would get using that term.

So George is coming out now.

Here's the point that I want to make.

A lot of minorities, especially when we came home, that's what a lot of people are telling me.

A lot of minorities have watched.

We're not hearing from them.

My wife's got a few cramps.

God bless America.

Just about two.

One of my little boys.

Cut off the voice.

This is the way I'm trying to make this point.

In order to meet the pursuit of control, all arms of Vietnam have to be out of regard for the effects of that action, or we can persist in our search for a justice to push it in some way possible.

Or, if we continue to delay the compartmentalization, delay the two-track deal if necessary.

Finally, we withdraw all arms of Vietnam on a scheduled course, as though it be some kind of battle.

I chose the second quote.

It is not the easy way.

It is the right way.

It is a plan for the end of the war and serve the cause of the beast, not just Vietnam, but the Pacific world.

In speaking of the consequences of this defeat by the recipient of withdrawal, I mentioned that our allies would lose confidence in America.

Far more dangerous, we would lose confidence in ourselves.

The immediate reaction would be a sense of relief with our death and our involvement.

But as we saw the consequences,

That's right.

That's really what this project is about.

But how?

You asked me, how did you get here?

I really didn't.

After what you .

I know it was hard at times, but mainly because I had .

And of course, that's the job.

I must say there were times, there are times, but see the problem we had, the problem I had, it was, you think of the presidents who had problems in other wars, in Woodrow Wilson's case, and basically certainly in FDR's case in World War II, and Harry Truman, certainly

at least the country was with them.

Here, and again, so for example, there's never, in World War I, too, there was never any question.

You even take, in Lincoln's case, Lincoln went through hell, he had a difficult life, and his country, and his wife, she had a difficult world, because she, three of her brothers, they were half-brothers, were killed on the southern side by him, so that's a part of it.

But nevertheless, at least Lincoln had

Three or four members of the staff, strong, vigorous, and quick.

You see, and this gets back to the leader class thing again.

At the present time, it's fashionable for this guy not to stand up, not to be with him, and so forth.

And so, people started expecting the man.

He's got to get out there and lead.

Everybody else, well, if he does it well, who would win it?

So basically, the job here was somewhat difficult due to the fact that our leaders in the Congress for the most part were pretty sad.

They'd all come in and I'd sit in them.

I remember that I used to, I remember that President Eisenhower used to sit in this office and what the secretary used to call me.

And he was very fond of that.

This was a hard job for him.

I don't think so.

because in this office, in this local office, the faith of the first Christian people and this world will depend on for the next 100 years.

Now, if we follow them, then now we're done.

See, here's the other thing.

I think this is the thing we have in mind is that I have already been around the track with regards to the fact that if the

Before the World War I, that's correct, but TR was here, a greater president than he was, and he was the guy that would send the fleet around the world.

But what was the great thing that Emma Mahon, may not pronounce it, but Emma Mahon, great strategist, Mahon, right, about the Navy strategist, all together, right, the Navy strategist, I'm very, very close with her, but it did make a big difference for the United States, because there were, not at all, there were other talks.

that there were other England could hope for.

But now, there's no one in England.

The U.S., if the U.S. is to face up to the problem of free world leadership, the free world will not survive.

Putting it another way, never mind, like Paul used to say, and I used it in speeches for early 1968, if you were to take the United States today and cut it out in a half of a room, it doesn't occupy a very big part of England, just lift it up,

Okay.

So, what was involved, what you folks were involved in doing, when your colleagues died, or when you were in the American military, was not just to save the men, but was to

maintain this credibility, but also, basically, the saving of the American spirit, the American character, and now, the United States, the American people, are going to have a real justice character.

They've ended the war.

After the very war, we tend to show up, for instance, and say, yes, I am.

Now is the real justice.

And we've got to get the American people not to come to the United States, but instead of

And we've got to tell the American people, look, we've got to continue to play our role, even if it means helping a sinking country like Afghanistan.

And we believe in the Russians, and they believe in the Chinese.

Why?

Because we love them all.

Yes, we can tell our Christian friends that.

But they don't want to hear Christians tell them.

Because if we don't, it's your tale.

And that's really what we have to stop doing.

And the real test, if I can get back to my leader class, the real people that you really have to talk to are not the workers, not the laborers, not the spend-lifers, not the farmers, not the poor folks.

I see that.

Hello?

The thing is, the thing is that the leader class, in terms of the future, the leader class, if the leader class goes, well, that's basically good.

And by the leader class, that means your opinion makers.

If your opinion makers, if you're the opinion makers of the United States, who are they?

They're television people, radio people, newspaper reporters, college presidents, preachers, and a few businessmen.

Those are the United States of America, and some political leaders.

If you look at the cross-section of them today, and if they were to take the vote on Vietnam, they would have bugged out the city of Vietnam.

I was only able to hang on to 69 by calling on the great asylum jury.

And so the hard hats, these, these, and those guys, and the farmers, and the poor heathen folks who don't know any better supported the president.

And it's tough.

But he did treat me.

That's what it's about.

And so, so you must write to the leader class.

You must write to them.

All right, I'll write to the average man.

Yes, I'll write to the average man.

Straighten it up.

He doesn't need it that much.

He needs to see and he needs leadership.

That's it.

And we don't want him to lose.

He wants to lose, sure.

And if his congressman, or his senator, or his governor, or his preacher is to do this, what do you remember how he respected his teachers and principals?

I don't know.

There's some great, great teachers.

Great.

Of course it is.

I know the college kids are great.

Great.

And the high schools.

They're getting out these days.

Everybody's getting out.

I'll be helping this team, I'm going to make them believe me.

It's the next thing.

I'm just going to sit there.

I'm going to talk to them.

I talk to those guys.

I'm going to love them.

I mean, I don't distract them, but I understand.

It's all right.

You know, I'm doing pretty good.

But I've got there to talk about it.

I'm going to say you guys are the individuals that are in front of you guys.

Maybe that's the greatest response in the world.

That's right.

It's true.

But to the greater sense than ever, we're controlling this defense.

You've got to be responsible.

You've got to be a good sportsman, for God's sake, and for the sake of the world and this country.

That's what they need to hear.

Well, I guess, uh, you've got to get used to it.

By your way, all sportsmen, that's very much so.

I'm glad to have a chance to have a good talk and a deal with you.

Oh, we'll let you all know.

We'll let you all know.

And that means I'll have to keep you posted on how our thoughts are.

And I think that you're opening up for you, sir.

I don't think it's going to be the only, or it's going to be a real... That's right.

No, that's right.

Actually, don't worry.

I can take it.

Because, you know, you just...

I mean, if you could...

I saw you come back.

Those guys can take it.

I can take it.

Well, great to see you.

We'll see you on Thursday.

And it's quite, shall we say, but we'll see you in May, in the meantime.

Most of the time, we're happy with it.

That's right.

At this time, and all of that.

There's a lot of things coming up.

Sure.

That's right.

years ago, I guess it was 41 or 42, 41, uh, no, no, no, we were here, 45, uh, yeah, I must have been actually.

the car and drove down the street.

South Carolina, North Carolina, and out next time to see the gardens.

And the flowers come out in April, and if you just drive along, stay at the motels, and just see the flowers.

You do that.

I would be great to see the flowers, both here in Charleston and over in the gardens.

I'd cost you a lot to go to the gardens, but it's worth buying.

All right.

Bye.